MLB Thread: 2013

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. For one, control issues creep up quite often in Spring Training.
[/quote]

I don’t know man, Roy throughout his career has been sharp right out of the gate every spring training.

I definitely see this is a warning sign.[/quote]

A warning sign of what? That he’s 36 years old now and might not be as good as he was when he was 29 or 30? Or a warning sign that something is fundamentally wrong with him?

Maybe something is wrong with him, but until further notice, I think the guy has earned the benefit of the doubt from someone like you. If he continues to struggle in this manner all spring, then yes, I would be very worried. But at this point, calling this anything other than an aberrational off-day is pure speculation.[/quote]

That there’s something wrong with him. Too many innings thrown over his career

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
If that’s true, I’m surprised how sharp a drop his abilities took. He was insanely dominant in 2011.

I expected a long slow decline.[/quote]

I was hoping for a long slow decline. With our starting pitching staff, if he could pitch consistently with a 3.5 ERA we could still be somewhat competitive as a team. If he’s out there averaging 4.5, we have a serious problem. [/quote]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. For one, control issues creep up quite often in Spring Training. I didn’t see any video of his outing, but I suspect he was missing by just a little as a result of nibbling. Sometimes, a pitcher has poor velocity that day and tries to compensate by staying a little further off the corner than normal, falls behind a lot and has to challenge hitters more when they find themselves behind in the count. With diminished velocity, it’s tough to challenge hitters when you’re behind in the count without getting pounded.

If he goes in for an MRI or his next start gets pushed back by more than a couple days, I might start to worry. But there are times when a pitcher just doesn’t have anything going at all that day, even guys like Halladay. Apparently he was down around 84-86mph, which is low by anyone’s standards other than Barry Zito’s. But if he was just fatigued today yet still only gets back up to 87-90 he can be a very effective pitcher.

One thing that happens when velocity dips is that movement increases. Assuming the control thing is just an aberration (and with Halladay’s track record we would be remiss to consider it anything but an aberration) he can still succeed at a slower velocity. Maddux did it his entire career. Halladay has the sort of pitch arsenal where it won’t be hard at all for him to make that sort of adjustment if he has to.
[/quote]

You know more about baseball than I do, but given his very recent history I’m very concerned. If we were talking about a young stud I’d defer to your knowledge, but we’re talking about a 35 year old guy who has been a work horse his entire career, was injured for a major portion of last season and even when he was pitching, was not very effective.

If anyone can pull it off, it’s Halladay, his work ethic and willingness to do what it takes is legendary. I just can’t help but feel the man’s body is hitting a wall.
[/quote]

He might be hitting a wall. But keep in mind that his injury last year was a strained lat, not a rotator cuff/labrum issue or anything to do with his elbow. Something in the rotator cuff or the elbow flexor would be cause for serious concern. I think his struggles are more likely a result of being rusty and essentially having to do “redo” his Spring Training in the middle of the year when he returned. It’s one thing to work into pitching shape in the offseason and going into Spring Training. It’s a totally different animal to work into regular season pitching shape IN the regular season against guys who already have a couple hundred plate at-bats under their belt. I think that at least partially explains his high walk total compared to his last several full seasons.

I would just be surprised if he really is done as an effective pitcher. Will he round back into form and be the Halladay of the last several years? Maybe, maybe not. I still think he has a few very solid years left in him. It’s just really rare to see a guy go from the top of his game to totally washed up in just a year or so, especially at the age of 35. 35 isn’t young by any means, but it’s not ancient either.

I guess when all is said and done, I think it’s way too early to say that this is the beginning of a sudden end to his effectiveness. All the innings that he’s accumulated over the years aren’t that indicative of a big workload at all, either. Keep in mind that even though he’s thrown at least 220 innings 7 times in his career, he’s only pitched in one postseason and he’s always had exceptionally low walk totals each year, which keeps his pitch count much lower than most pitchers. 220 innings’ worth of pitches for Halladay is probably like 190 innings’ worth of pitches for most others.[/quote]

All good points, and I really hope you’re right.

But I reserve the right to cry “the sky is falling” at every available hiccup in the season. :slight_smile:

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
I wouldn’t worry too much about it. For one, control issues creep up quite often in Spring Training.
[/quote]

I don’t know man, Roy throughout his career has been sharp right out of the gate every spring training.

I definitely see this is a warning sign.[/quote]

A warning sign of what? That he’s 36 years old now and might not be as good as he was when he was 29 or 30? Or a warning sign that something is fundamentally wrong with him?

Maybe something is wrong with him, but until further notice, I think the guy has earned the benefit of the doubt from someone like you. If he continues to struggle in this manner all spring, then yes, I would be very worried. But at this point, calling this anything other than an aberrational off-day is pure speculation.[/quote]

That there’s something wrong with him. Too many innings thrown over his career[/quote]

He’s averaged less than 200 innings per season over his career. He’s always had low pitches-per-inning totals as well, since he doesn’t walk anyone. You don’t know what you’re talking about. He’s getting up there in age and is certainly going to start tailing off here, but to say that he’s done or that there is something wrong with him due to an excessive workload is ignorant speculation.

And you’re still a punk bitch for choosing the avatar you chose. I guess it’s my fault for engaging in a bet with someone like you, though, so I have no reason to complain. I willingly chose to bet with a fucking fag so I only have myself to blame if the Giants lose. Oh well, when Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes are on the DL and the rest of the team is underperforming you’ll probably refuse to use the avatar I choose for you anyways.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

He’s averaged less than 200 innings per season over his career. He’s always had low pitches-per-inning totals as well, since he doesn’t walk anyone.[/quote]

And in his last outing he was walked a ton of guys.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You don’t know what you’re talking about. He’s getting up there in age and is certainly going to start tailing off here, but to say that he’s done or that there is something wrong with him due to an excessive workload is ignorant speculation.[/quote]

I don’t expect to be his regular ace self. Average to above average? Sure.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
And you’re still a punk bitch for choosing the avatar you chose. I guess it’s my fault for engaging in a bet with someone like you, though, so I have no reason to complain. I willingly chose to bet with a fucking fag so I only have myself to blame if the Giants lose. Oh well, when Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes are on the DL and the rest of the team is underperforming you’ll probably refuse to use the avatar I choose for you anyways.[/quote]

This is a direct admission that my team is way more talented than yours. The Giants need the Jays to sustain key injuries just to have a glimmer of hope of beating the Jays. Thanks for admitting that, I agree.

I also don’t care if you don’t like my avatar choice. That’s the point. If you want to evoke the no-racist rule that’s fine, I’ll find another. Don’t get your panties in a knot.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:

He’s averaged less than 200 innings per season over his career. He’s always had low pitches-per-inning totals as well, since he doesn’t walk anyone. You don’t know what you’re talking about. He’s getting up there in age and is certainly going to start tailing off here, but to say that he’s done or that there is something wrong with him due to an excessive workload is ignorant speculation.

[/quote]

If he has hit a wall, and he does completely fall off, does it still qualify as ignorant speculation?

Because you don’t seem to think the concerns have any merit, I’m wondering how your opinion would change if they turn out to be correct.

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I never asked you lanky - why did you leave the site for 2 years? Or if its a better question, why did you come back?

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
I never asked you lanky - why did you leave the site for 2 years? Or if its a better question, why did you come back?[/quote]

A multitude of reasons, really.

I originally left because I was just busy with a new child, being promoted at work, trying to turn around a failing bar and just trying to use my time as productively as possible. This site is incredibly wasteful. Right now I could be spending this time doing something far more productive, but being on the computer for 8 hours a day, it’s tough not to find some time to do something mindless, cruising the internet. At one point I realized how much time I was wasting on this site and decided it wasn’t adding anything of value to my life, so I just stopped coming here.

I came back for a couple reasons - first because there are some legitimately cool people on the site and I was interested in seeing how they’re doing. Second, I realized that when I’m posting on this site, I take my training more seriously which is what I wanted to get back into. I’ve kind of just been maintaining over the last couple years and wanted to kick it up a couple notches and if I’m reading and discussing training more often, I tend to carry it around with me every day and make it more of a priority.

I’m posting more now than I originally intended when I came back, and if it gets to a point where I’m wasting too much time again I’ll probably peace out for a couple more years. The board has really changed over the last couple years, too. But then again, I feel like people have been saying that since I signed up, so it’s probably constantly changing and giving up on it for a couple years just personified those changes for me.

tl;dr, I know.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
I never asked you lanky - why did you leave the site for 2 years? Or if its a better question, why did you come back?[/quote]

A multitude of reasons, really.

I originally left because I was just busy with a new child, being promoted at work, trying to turn around a failing bar and just trying to use my time as productively as possible. This site is incredibly wasteful. Right now I could be spending this time doing something far more productive, but being on the computer for 8 hours a day, it’s tough not to find some time to do something mindless, cruising the internet. At one point I realized how much time I was wasting on this site and decided it wasn’t adding anything of value to my life, so I just stopped coming here.

I came back for a couple reasons - first because there are some legitimately cool people on the site and I was interested in seeing how they’re doing. Second, I realized that when I’m posting on this site, I take my training more seriously which is what I wanted to get back into. I’ve kind of just been maintaining over the last couple years and wanted to kick it up a couple notches and if I’m reading and discussing training more often, I tend to carry it around with me every day and make it more of a priority.

I’m posting more now than I originally intended when I came back, and if it gets to a point where I’m wasting too much time again I’ll probably peace out for a couple more years. The board has really changed over the last couple years, too. But then again, I feel like people have been saying that since I signed up, so it’s probably constantly changing and giving up on it for a couple years just personified those changes for me.

tl;dr, I know. [/quote]

Oh right, I remember that bar thread you started. How is it going? Did you manage to turn it around?

For me this site works as a way to sort’ve reset my eyes during long periods of working through spreadsheets. I barely post when I’m not working or before when I was studying. I don’t see it as a waste time

The training part you mentioned I find is a double edged sword. On one end when you go to the gym you are reminded by how much bigger/stronger you’ve become relative to the average trainee (I lift at a standard commercial gym with 2-3 big guys at any given time).

On the other end, when I log in and see others accomplishments, it reminds me I’ve basically done fuck all. There’s always someone here who is much bigger stronger and more accomplished and done it in a shorter time frame than me. I guess this is good to an extent.

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

Oh right, I remember that bar thread you started. How is it going? Did you manage to turn it around?

[/quote]

No. We were only 25% owners and at the end of the day, we weren’t being allowed to make the changes we wanted to make. Plus my aunt-in-law was a total bitch to work with, so we ended up getting out of it altogether for a big financial net 0 and a colossal waste of time.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

He’s averaged less than 200 innings per season over his career. He’s always had low pitches-per-inning totals as well, since he doesn’t walk anyone. You don’t know what you’re talking about. He’s getting up there in age and is certainly going to start tailing off here, but to say that he’s done or that there is something wrong with him due to an excessive workload is ignorant speculation.

[/quote]

If he has hit a wall, and he does completely fall off, does it still qualify as ignorant speculation?

Because you don’t seem to think the concerns have any merit, I’m wondering how your opinion would change if they turn out to be correct. [/quote]

I don’t think they’ll turn out to be correct. My point is that Raj does not know enough about pitching in general or Halladay in specific to say anything substantial about what his future holds. If he falls off the map, fine. But that would be a case of Raj simply guessing right rather than making an accurate statement based on knowledge of the situation.

The concerns have merit, but to point to one bad outing and Halladay’s struggles last year as a sign that he has hit a wall is pretty much done is without merit.

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[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[
I don’t think they’ll turn out to be correct. My point is that Raj does not know enough about pitching in general or Halladay in specific to say anything substantial about what his future holds. If he falls off the map, fine. But that would be a case of Raj simply guessing right rather than making an accurate statement based on knowledge of the situation.
[/quote]

You didn’t see him pitch either, so what exactly is your argument based on?

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[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[
I don’t think they’ll turn out to be correct. My point is that Raj does not know enough about pitching in general or Halladay in specific to say anything substantial about what his future holds. If he falls off the map, fine. But that would be a case of Raj simply guessing right rather than making an accurate statement based on knowledge of the situation.
[/quote]

You didn’t see him pitch either, so what exactly is your argument based on?

[/quote]

I did see him pitch. I’ve since watched the “lowlights” of his outing on this wild new thing called the “Internet”. His control wasn’t as bad one might assume. He wasn’t exactly nibbling either, though. Regardless, it’s Spring Training. He has some kinks to work out. He credits the poor outing to be overly-fatigued from a new, more intense workout regimen that he’s followed this spring. Not sure if I’m buying that, but I think he’s earned the benefit of the doubt.

Look, I’m done arguing about whether or not Halladay is on the edge of a tall cliff based on one start in Spring Training. If you want to continue on with it, at least wait until the regular season starts before you begin declaring him finished.

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Hey Matty,

What do ya think?

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Hey Matty,

Get ready for a lot of this :wink:

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Hey Matty,

Get ready for a lot of this ;)[/quote]

It is probably the quality of the video, but did you see that spin all of a sudden stop when the ball drops. It almost has a knuckle curve movement on it.

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Hey Matty,

Get ready for a lot of this ;)[/quote]

It is probably the quality of the video, but did you see that spin all of a sudden stop when the ball drops. It almost has a knuckle curve movement on it.[/quote]

That’s because it’s a knuckleballer throwing the pitch… It’s RA Dickey.

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Speaking of the WBC, did any of you watch the Dom - USA game?

If you had, you would’ve caught a glimpse as to how bad the Jays starting C JP Arencibia is.

This was a controversial call and the Dominicans were pissed (justifiably). But what I noticed as I have watching JP many times before: How terrible he is at framing the pitch. He is one god awful receiver.

For the longest time I was hoping to see Travis D’Arnaud, the centre piece in the Dickey trade replace JP in the Jays lineup. That dream is over.

I’ll have to live with this shit bag. The only discernible quality this guy brings is he puts butts in seats. He’s a 100% certified chick magnet. My facebook as well as all female blue jay fans on twitter constantly fawn over this guy. He makes pussy moist which I guess if you’re going to the games makes things more enjoyable too.

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LOL I have no retort to this Raj.

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Actually I do!

Cano went 2-3 with a homer against Dickey last year…

When it counted.

Dickey was touched up for 5 runs in 6 innings BTW

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[quote]therajraj wrote:
Speaking of the WBC, did any of you watch the Dom - USA game?

If you had, you would’ve caught a glimpse as to how bad the Jays starting C JP Arencibia is.

This was a controversial call and the Dominicans were pissed (justifiably). But what I noticed as I have watching JP many times before: How terrible he is at framing the pitch. He is one god awful receiver.

For the longest time I was hoping to see Travis D’Arnaud, the centre piece in the Dickey trade replace JP in the Jays lineup. That dream is over.

I’ll have to live with this shit bag. The only discernible quality this guy brings is he puts butts in seats. He’s a 100% certified chick magnet. My facebook as well as all female blue jay fans on twitter constantly fawn over this guy. He makes pussy moist which I guess if you’re going to the games makes things more enjoyable too.

[/quote]

TBH it kind of looks like he got mixed up and was expecting fastball there.