MLB Season 2011

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Well look at some of the recent NL ROY’s sophomore campaign’s:

2009 Chris Coughlan - production dropped significantly in 2010

2008 Geovany Soto - production dropped significantly in 2009

2007 Ryan Braun - production increased in 2008

2006 Hanley Ramirez - production increased in 2007

Looking at the ROY list there are quite a few notable players and there are also a bunch of duds. Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols… but also Erik Hinske and Bobby Crosby.

[/quote]

We had this conversation like six months ago. If you’re going to evaluate Posey and Bumgarner’s odds of a repeat performance from last year, look at Posey and Bumgarner. What Eric Hinske did a decade ago has no bearing whatsoever on anything. Neither does anything that Hanley Ramirez or Ryan Braun did a few years ago.[/quote]

I disagree.

Yes nothing a previous ROY did a few years back will have any effect on what Buster does this year. However I would consider it a good comparison and indicator of what COULD happen.

General trends of how players with breakout ROY seasons do in their sophomore year - I would consider that very relevant for a prediction.
[/quote]

What COULD happen? Come on. Based on that line of logic, I’m surprised you aren’t saying that it’s possible that Posey bombs out due to drug use, just like Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden, because after all, it COULD happen to Posey because it happened to them.[/quote]

No you’re taking my argument to absurd levels. I’m talking realistically. A lot of players have bad seasons, most do not bomb out due to drug use come on.
[/quote]

It’s not absurd at all. Look at the history of it. It is entirely and very realistically possible that Posey bombs out due to an affinity for cocaine. Steve Howe, the Strawman, Doc Gooden, Orlando Cepeda and Rafael Furcal have all battled substance abuse problems. If you add people like McGwire, Canseco, Raul Mondesi, Benito Santiago and Chuck Knoblauch to the list, based on this there is a very distinct possibility that Posey’s career will follow the same path as these former ROYs and end up derailed or sullied by drug use of some sort.[/quote]

Uh no. NONE of that is baseball related. There’s no connection between recreational drug use and people who have breakout seasons.

Many players have trouble putting up good numbers after a breakout season because the league adjusts to them and pitchers find holes in their swing etc. There is an actual REASON for the drop off. You’re trying to make a connection that isn’t there

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Well look at some of the recent NL ROY’s sophomore campaign’s:

2009 Chris Coughlan - production dropped significantly in 2010

2008 Geovany Soto - production dropped significantly in 2009

2007 Ryan Braun - production increased in 2008

2006 Hanley Ramirez - production increased in 2007

Looking at the ROY list there are quite a few notable players and there are also a bunch of duds. Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols… but also Erik Hinske and Bobby Crosby.

[/quote]

We had this conversation like six months ago. If you’re going to evaluate Posey and Bumgarner’s odds of a repeat performance from last year, look at Posey and Bumgarner. What Eric Hinske did a decade ago has no bearing whatsoever on anything. Neither does anything that Hanley Ramirez or Ryan Braun did a few years ago.[/quote]

I disagree.

Yes nothing a previous ROY did a few years back will have any effect on what Buster does this year. However I would consider it a good comparison and indicator of what COULD happen.

General trends of how players with breakout ROY seasons do in their sophomore year - I would consider that very relevant for a prediction.
[/quote]

What COULD happen? Come on. Based on that line of logic, I’m surprised you aren’t saying that it’s possible that Posey bombs out due to drug use, just like Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden, because after all, it COULD happen to Posey because it happened to them.[/quote]

No you’re taking my argument to absurd levels. I’m talking realistically. A lot of players have bad seasons, most do not bomb out due to drug use come on.
[/quote]

It’s not absurd at all. Look at the history of it. It is entirely and very realistically possible that Posey bombs out due to an affinity for cocaine. Steve Howe, the Strawman, Doc Gooden, Orlando Cepeda and Rafael Furcal have all battled substance abuse problems. If you add people like McGwire, Canseco, Raul Mondesi, Benito Santiago and Chuck Knoblauch to the list, based on this there is a very distinct possibility that Posey’s career will follow the same path as these former ROYs and end up derailed or sullied by drug use of some sort.[/quote]

Uh no. NONE of that is baseball related. There’s no connection between recreational drug use and people who have breakout seasons.

Many players have trouble putting up good numbers after a breakout season because the league adjusts to them and pitchers find holes in their swing etc. There is an actual REASON for the drop off. You’re trying to make a connection that isn’t there

[/quote]

It’s ALL baseball-related. Come on, you don’t think instant fame and vast amounts of money at roughly 21-22 years old (19 in Gooden’s case) doesn’t have anything to do with their subsequent slide into drug abuse? That is an ACTUAL reason. Besides, the league already found the hole in Posey’s swing during his anemic September callup in 2009: he couldn’t lay off the breaking ball down and away late in the count. But he clearly buttoned that hole up in the Minors and we saw last year how well he adjusted to that.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Well look at some of the recent NL ROY’s sophomore campaign’s:

2009 Chris Coughlan - production dropped significantly in 2010

2008 Geovany Soto - production dropped significantly in 2009

2007 Ryan Braun - production increased in 2008

2006 Hanley Ramirez - production increased in 2007

Looking at the ROY list there are quite a few notable players and there are also a bunch of duds. Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols… but also Erik Hinske and Bobby Crosby.

[/quote]

We had this conversation like six months ago. If you’re going to evaluate Posey and Bumgarner’s odds of a repeat performance from last year, look at Posey and Bumgarner. What Eric Hinske did a decade ago has no bearing whatsoever on anything. Neither does anything that Hanley Ramirez or Ryan Braun did a few years ago.[/quote]

I disagree.

Yes nothing a previous ROY did a few years back will have any effect on what Buster does this year. However I would consider it a good comparison and indicator of what COULD happen.

General trends of how players with breakout ROY seasons do in their sophomore year - I would consider that very relevant for a prediction.
[/quote]

What COULD happen? Come on. Based on that line of logic, I’m surprised you aren’t saying that it’s possible that Posey bombs out due to drug use, just like Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden, because after all, it COULD happen to Posey because it happened to them.[/quote]

No you’re taking my argument to absurd levels. I’m talking realistically. A lot of players have bad seasons, most do not bomb out due to drug use come on.
[/quote]

It’s not absurd at all. Look at the history of it. It is entirely and very realistically possible that Posey bombs out due to an affinity for cocaine. Steve Howe, the Strawman, Doc Gooden, Orlando Cepeda and Rafael Furcal have all battled substance abuse problems. If you add people like McGwire, Canseco, Raul Mondesi, Benito Santiago and Chuck Knoblauch to the list, based on this there is a very distinct possibility that Posey’s career will follow the same path as these former ROYs and end up derailed or sullied by drug use of some sort.[/quote]

Uh no. NONE of that is baseball related. There’s no connection between recreational drug use and people who have breakout seasons.

Many players have trouble putting up good numbers after a breakout season because the league adjusts to them and pitchers find holes in their swing etc. There is an actual REASON for the drop off. You’re trying to make a connection that isn’t there

[/quote]

It’s ALL baseball-related. Come on, you don’t think instant fame and vast amounts of money at roughly 21-22 years old (19 in Gooden’s case) doesn’t have anything to do with their subsequent slide into drug abuse? That is an ACTUAL reason. Besides, the league already found the hole in Posey’s swing during his anemic September callup in 2009: he couldn’t lay off the breaking ball down and away late in the count. But he clearly buttoned that hole up in the Minors and we saw last year how well he adjusted to that.

[/quote]

Bullshit. Most players do not get hooked on drugs/alcohol, but most do have a bad year in their careers.

There’s no link to a breakout season and drug/alcohol use.

I’m not going to argue this any further.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Well look at some of the recent NL ROY’s sophomore campaign’s:

2009 Chris Coughlan - production dropped significantly in 2010

2008 Geovany Soto - production dropped significantly in 2009

2007 Ryan Braun - production increased in 2008

2006 Hanley Ramirez - production increased in 2007

Looking at the ROY list there are quite a few notable players and there are also a bunch of duds. Ichiro Suzuki, Albert Pujols… but also Erik Hinske and Bobby Crosby.

[/quote]

We had this conversation like six months ago. If you’re going to evaluate Posey and Bumgarner’s odds of a repeat performance from last year, look at Posey and Bumgarner. What Eric Hinske did a decade ago has no bearing whatsoever on anything. Neither does anything that Hanley Ramirez or Ryan Braun did a few years ago.[/quote]

I disagree.

Yes nothing a previous ROY did a few years back will have any effect on what Buster does this year. However I would consider it a good comparison and indicator of what COULD happen.

General trends of how players with breakout ROY seasons do in their sophomore year - I would consider that very relevant for a prediction.
[/quote]

What COULD happen? Come on. Based on that line of logic, I’m surprised you aren’t saying that it’s possible that Posey bombs out due to drug use, just like Darryl Strawberry or Dwight Gooden, because after all, it COULD happen to Posey because it happened to them.[/quote]

No you’re taking my argument to absurd levels. I’m talking realistically. A lot of players have bad seasons, most do not bomb out due to drug use come on.
[/quote]

It’s not absurd at all. Look at the history of it. It is entirely and very realistically possible that Posey bombs out due to an affinity for cocaine. Steve Howe, the Strawman, Doc Gooden, Orlando Cepeda and Rafael Furcal have all battled substance abuse problems. If you add people like McGwire, Canseco, Raul Mondesi, Benito Santiago and Chuck Knoblauch to the list, based on this there is a very distinct possibility that Posey’s career will follow the same path as these former ROYs and end up derailed or sullied by drug use of some sort.[/quote]

Uh no. NONE of that is baseball related. There’s no connection between recreational drug use and people who have breakout seasons.

Many players have trouble putting up good numbers after a breakout season because the league adjusts to them and pitchers find holes in their swing etc. There is an actual REASON for the drop off. You’re trying to make a connection that isn’t there

[/quote]

It’s ALL baseball-related. Come on, you don’t think instant fame and vast amounts of money at roughly 21-22 years old (19 in Gooden’s case) doesn’t have anything to do with their subsequent slide into drug abuse? That is an ACTUAL reason. Besides, the league already found the hole in Posey’s swing during his anemic September callup in 2009: he couldn’t lay off the breaking ball down and away late in the count. But he clearly buttoned that hole up in the Minors and we saw last year how well he adjusted to that.

[/quote]

Bullshit. Most players do not get hooked on drugs/alcohol, but most do have a bad year in their careers.

There’s no link to a breakout season and drug/alcohol use.

I’m not going to argue this any further.

[/quote]

Thank you.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
One more thing: here is a partial list of all ROY winners since 1970 in both leagues. One look at this list, by your logic rajraj, makes it painfully apparent that in actuality, it is MUCH more likely that Posey will continue to excel rather than slump.

AL:
Thurman Munson
Carlton Fisk
Fred Lynn
Eddie Murray
Lou Whitaker
Dave Righetti
Cal Ripken, Jr
Ozzie Guillen
Jose Canseco
Mark McGwire
Sandy Alomar, Jr
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Salmon
Derek Jeter
Nomar Garciaparra
Carlos Beltran
Kaz Sasaki
Ichiro
Huston Street
Justin Verlander
Dustin Pedroia (who also won the MVP in his second year)
Evan Longoria
Andrew Bailey

NL:
Andre Dawson
Rick Sutcliffe
Fernando Valenzuela
Steve Sax
Darryl Strawberry
Dwight Gooden
Vince Coleman
Todd Worrell
Benito Santiago
David Justice
Jeff Bagwell
Eric Karros
Mike Piazza
Scott Rolen
Rafael Furcal
Albert Pujols
Jason Bay
Ryan Howard
Hanley Ramirez
Ryan Braun

So you see rajraj, even by your own flawed logic, the likelihood that Posey drops off isn’t great. There’s a lot of really good ballplayers on that list. I’m not even going back far enough to include players like Willie Mays or Jackie Robinson. You’re incessant clinging to the possibility that Posey drops off smacks of sour grapes from someone who didn’t give the Giants a chance in hell to beat the Phillies OR the Rangers.

[/quote]

You are talking about careers. Raj is discussing the “sophomore slump”. Two very different things and the fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that this happens is mind boggling.

taken from Hardball Times: in the history of baseball, there have been 116 Rookie of the Year winners from 1947 to 2004. The list of winners starts with Jackie Robinson in 1947 and ends with Jason Bay and Bobby Crosby in 2004.

  • 74 declined in their second year (63.8%)
  • 38 improved in their second year (32.7%)
  • 4 stayed the same in their second year (3.5%)

Certainly a player CAN follow up ROY with an MVP season, but it is not the norm. No one is saying that Posey is a piece of shit so just calm down chief.

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
One more thing: here is a partial list of all ROY winners since 1970 in both leagues. One look at this list, by your logic rajraj, makes it painfully apparent that in actuality, it is MUCH more likely that Posey will continue to excel rather than slump.

AL:
Thurman Munson
Carlton Fisk
Fred Lynn
Eddie Murray
Lou Whitaker
Dave Righetti
Cal Ripken, Jr
Ozzie Guillen
Jose Canseco
Mark McGwire
Sandy Alomar, Jr
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Salmon
Derek Jeter
Nomar Garciaparra
Carlos Beltran
Kaz Sasaki
Ichiro
Huston Street
Justin Verlander
Dustin Pedroia (who also won the MVP in his second year)
Evan Longoria
Andrew Bailey

NL:
Andre Dawson
Rick Sutcliffe
Fernando Valenzuela
Steve Sax
Darryl Strawberry
Dwight Gooden
Vince Coleman
Todd Worrell
Benito Santiago
David Justice
Jeff Bagwell
Eric Karros
Mike Piazza
Scott Rolen
Rafael Furcal
Albert Pujols
Jason Bay
Ryan Howard
Hanley Ramirez
Ryan Braun

So you see rajraj, even by your own flawed logic, the likelihood that Posey drops off isn’t great. There’s a lot of really good ballplayers on that list. I’m not even going back far enough to include players like Willie Mays or Jackie Robinson. You’re incessant clinging to the possibility that Posey drops off smacks of sour grapes from someone who didn’t give the Giants a chance in hell to beat the Phillies OR the Rangers.

[/quote]

You are talking about careers. Raj is discussing the “sophomore slump”. Two very different things and the fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that this happens is mind boggling.

taken from Hardball Times: in the history of baseball, there have been 116 Rookie of the Year winners from 1947 to 2004. The list of winners starts with Jackie Robinson in 1947 and ends with Jason Bay and Bobby Crosby in 2004.

  • 74 declined in their second year (63.8%)
  • 38 improved in their second year (32.7%)
  • 4 stayed the same in their second year (3.5%)

Certainly a player CAN follow up ROY with an MVP season, but it is not the norm. No one is saying that Posey is a piece of shit so just calm down chief. [/quote]

Good Post.

Once the season starts maybe these Giants fans will settle down and realize their team might actually have some weaknesses and it won’t be a cakewalk back to the World Series.

Most rookies, not necessarily ROY caliber players are very
much trying to impress in their first outings or seasons. They
have been working towards that goal literally all of their lives
and they finally made it. Whew !!! Second season, sophomores, they
can relax, a little, and try to settle into their new lives. Lots
and I mean LOTS more money, $1500/mo in minors vs. $500k/mo. That alone
takes some adjustment. Tons more distractions. And on top of that the
“sophomore” stigma and all of the “pressies” are constantly telling you
about it. On top of that, you have to train, practice, and PERFORM !!!
Sophomore season is really all about making adjustments, so a guy’s numbers
fall off a little, big deal, as long as it isn’t too much. The talent is
still there, and all of the clubs know that, and your teammates too. Ever move to
a strange city? Feel a little out of place at first? Try to impress everyone
you met? It’s sorta like that.

And Raj, Love the Avi, didn’t know you were sucha big
Yankees fan.

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Padres will be last again like everyone predicted last year. They’re a lot worse than the Diamondbacks.[/quote]
[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense since they got second. Be thankful they choked away the end of the season or your Giants wouldn’t have won the World Series. Not saying the Giants didn’t deserve it, but you gotta give credit to the Pads.[/quote]

Us Giants fans don’t have to give shit to the Padres. Sure, they played well over the course of the year, but the bottom line is that a LOT of things went right for them. Not that the Giants didn’t have some luck as well, but the Padres of last year and the Padres of this year are totally different teams.

First of all, no Adrian Gonzalez. And I doubt that their big offseason pickup, Orlando Hudson, will have any larger impact on the offense than Will Venable or Chase Headley. Their biggest weakness got a LOT weaker.

Their pitching was great, but let’s examine that a little closer. Are Clayton Richard and Mat Latos legit? I suppose so, but the reality is that they have no track record beyond last year and they folded down the stretch, especially Latos. Yeah, I know. He’d never pitched that deep into a season or thrown that many innings. Well, the same thing could be said about Madison Bumgarner except that he got better and better as the season wore on and saved his best for his last start of the year in the Series against the best offensive team the Giants faced all year. I don’t think that Latos or Richard are one-hit wonders by any means, but Padres fans should be concerned that Latos is getting fucking shelled in Spring Training right now.

As far as how Bumgarner and Posey will respond this year, well I picked Posey for MVP and it won’t surprise me at all if Bumgarner wins 15+ games this year. It would be one thing if these two were Cody Ross-type players who exploded on the national stage after wallowing in anonymity for years. But Posey and Bumgarner are 1st-round picks with amazing track records at every level (including their relatively short length of time in the bigs) that backs up their high talent level and high expectations. Of course they’ll need to make adjustments to continue thriving, but there’s nothing in their track record to suggest that they can’t do so; they’ve done it at every level so far and I think the reality is that the league had better start adjusting to THEM.[/quote]

Ha agreed, the only thing I’ll be thankful for in regards to the Padres is that the Giants won’t have to worry about them since they’re a pretty pathetic looking squad.

I really don’t see people “adjusting” to Posey, he hits for a great average and is fine with any pitch. The “adjusting” argument might work for pure power hitters like Stanton, but not with great all around hitters like Posey.[/quote]
You can’t ever say a divisional opponent will be a piece of cake. Divisional opponents know each other well. Padres have always hit Cain and Lincecum very well. They always have a problem with Sanchez.

I never said the Giants have to give shit to the Padres. You guys just act like you dominated last year when it wasn’t so. Are you trying to make me hate you guys more than the Dodgers. Enough with the arrogance.

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Padres will be last again like everyone predicted last year. They’re a lot worse than the Diamondbacks.[/quote]
[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense since they got second. Be thankful they choked away the end of the season or your Giants wouldn’t have won the World Series. Not saying the Giants didn’t deserve it, but you gotta give credit to the Pads.[/quote]

Us Giants fans don’t have to give shit to the Padres. Sure, they played well over the course of the year, but the bottom line is that a LOT of things went right for them. Not that the Giants didn’t have some luck as well, but the Padres of last year and the Padres of this year are totally different teams.

First of all, no Adrian Gonzalez. And I doubt that their big offseason pickup, Orlando Hudson, will have any larger impact on the offense than Will Venable or Chase Headley. Their biggest weakness got a LOT weaker.

Their pitching was great, but let’s examine that a little closer. Are Clayton Richard and Mat Latos legit? I suppose so, but the reality is that they have no track record beyond last year and they folded down the stretch, especially Latos. Yeah, I know. He’d never pitched that deep into a season or thrown that many innings. Well, the same thing could be said about Madison Bumgarner except that he got better and better as the season wore on and saved his best for his last start of the year in the Series against the best offensive team the Giants faced all year. I don’t think that Latos or Richard are one-hit wonders by any means, but Padres fans should be concerned that Latos is getting fucking shelled in Spring Training right now.

As far as how Bumgarner and Posey will respond this year, well I picked Posey for MVP and it won’t surprise me at all if Bumgarner wins 15+ games this year. It would be one thing if these two were Cody Ross-type players who exploded on the national stage after wallowing in anonymity for years. But Posey and Bumgarner are 1st-round picks with amazing track records at every level (including their relatively short length of time in the bigs) that backs up their high talent level and high expectations. Of course they’ll need to make adjustments to continue thriving, but there’s nothing in their track record to suggest that they can’t do so; they’ve done it at every level so far and I think the reality is that the league had better start adjusting to THEM.[/quote]

Ha agreed, the only thing I’ll be thankful for in regards to the Padres is that the Giants won’t have to worry about them since they’re a pretty pathetic looking squad.

I really don’t see people “adjusting” to Posey, he hits for a great average and is fine with any pitch. The “adjusting” argument might work for pure power hitters like Stanton, but not with great all around hitters like Posey.[/quote]
You can’t ever say a divisional opponent will be a piece of cake. Divisional opponents know each other well. Padres have always hit Cain and Lincecum very well. They always have a problem with Sanchez.

I never said the Giants have to give shit to the Padres. You guys just act like you dominated last year when it wasn’t so. Are you trying to make me hate you guys more than the Dodgers. Enough with the arrogance.[/quote]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Matt Cain has a lifetime ERA of 2.92 against the Padres and they’ve managed to put together a .197 batting avg against him in that span. I can’t find Lincecum’s stats against them, but other than a couple starts last year, he’s dominated them as well.

Look, here’s why WestCoast and I get all bitter when people diss the 2010 Giants: we’re Giants fans. We’ve seen them get swept in the World Series by the cross-town rivals, we’ve seen them blow the 2002 World Series, we’ve seen the accomplishments of probably the best player we’ll ever watch in a Giants uniform get tainted by steroids, they had NEVER won a Series while in SF even though their main rival, the Dodgers, have won aomething like 6 or 7 since moving out West and the motherfucking A’s even have four under their belt.

When the Giants won it all last year, on the backs of a bunch of guys that most people outside of the Bay Area had never heard of before the last postseason (aside from their starting staff) it was an amazing experience for us Giants fans. Not only because they won, but because that team was the anti-thesis of the teams we’d been watching for years, teams loaded with unexciting veterans with little to no personality, weighed down by the colossal presence of Bonds who, while always being a fan favorite in the Bay Area, had pretty much worn out his welcome by the time he left. Before Cain and Lincecum came up, you know who the best home-grown talent to come through the Giants system was? Pedro Fucking Feliz.

So if Giants fans could have chosen exactly how their first championship in SF were to play out, this is EXACTLY how most fans would have wanted it to happen. Homegrown talent on both sides of the ball, an exciting team with a lot of great personalities and BALLPLAYERS who are the opposite of jerks like Bonds or Kent or even Robb Nen, and a somewhat unexpected run to the title. Except that us Giants fans watched them all year and we knew that they were better than most people, especially those on the East Coast, thought they were. I don’t think that the Series title really surprised that many Giants fans, especially myself or WestCoast.

And here we are, in our one moment of glory in the last 56 years and it’s sullied by the fact that most people discount their run as the result of luck. In effect, it’s a slap in the face to us Giants fans to hear that bullshit, especially all the stuff about Cody Ross getting lucky. Did he get hot at the right time? Sure, but the guy’s a pretty good ballplayer in his own right. It’s not like Jim Leyritz’s eyes-closed, hope-I-get-lucky swing against Wohlers back in the 1996 Series. So that’s why when I hear a guy like Rajraj, who probably all of ten games by the Giants last year before the postseason, or any other person who lives on the East Coast and probably never saw them play except for their matchups against the NL East, minimize their accomplishments by chalking it up to sheer luck we Giants fans get defensive. That’s all. We’re not arrogant, but our faith in the ability of the team, especially the offense (which I think is going to surprise a lot of people this year) makes us seem so when compared to others who barely watched their games this year and fail to comprehend how the Giants did it in the first place.

edit: on top of all that, we’ve gotta listen to everyone suck the Phillies starters’ cocks, even though the Giants easily have better staff top to bottom than the Phillies do AND the Giants roughed up Halladay twice last year, including Game 1 of the NLCS, Lincecum’s faced Oswalt something like 5 or 6 times in his career already and he’s outdueled him every time, and they beat the supposedly unhittable Cliff Lee twice in the Series.

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Padres will be last again like everyone predicted last year. They’re a lot worse than the Diamondbacks.[/quote]
[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense since they got second. Be thankful they choked away the end of the season or your Giants wouldn’t have won the World Series. Not saying the Giants didn’t deserve it, but you gotta give credit to the Pads.[/quote]

Us Giants fans don’t have to give shit to the Padres. Sure, they played well over the course of the year, but the bottom line is that a LOT of things went right for them. Not that the Giants didn’t have some luck as well, but the Padres of last year and the Padres of this year are totally different teams.

First of all, no Adrian Gonzalez. And I doubt that their big offseason pickup, Orlando Hudson, will have any larger impact on the offense than Will Venable or Chase Headley. Their biggest weakness got a LOT weaker.

Their pitching was great, but let’s examine that a little closer. Are Clayton Richard and Mat Latos legit? I suppose so, but the reality is that they have no track record beyond last year and they folded down the stretch, especially Latos. Yeah, I know. He’d never pitched that deep into a season or thrown that many innings. Well, the same thing could be said about Madison Bumgarner except that he got better and better as the season wore on and saved his best for his last start of the year in the Series against the best offensive team the Giants faced all year. I don’t think that Latos or Richard are one-hit wonders by any means, but Padres fans should be concerned that Latos is getting fucking shelled in Spring Training right now.

As far as how Bumgarner and Posey will respond this year, well I picked Posey for MVP and it won’t surprise me at all if Bumgarner wins 15+ games this year. It would be one thing if these two were Cody Ross-type players who exploded on the national stage after wallowing in anonymity for years. But Posey and Bumgarner are 1st-round picks with amazing track records at every level (including their relatively short length of time in the bigs) that backs up their high talent level and high expectations. Of course they’ll need to make adjustments to continue thriving, but there’s nothing in their track record to suggest that they can’t do so; they’ve done it at every level so far and I think the reality is that the league had better start adjusting to THEM.[/quote]

Ha agreed, the only thing I’ll be thankful for in regards to the Padres is that the Giants won’t have to worry about them since they’re a pretty pathetic looking squad.

I really don’t see people “adjusting” to Posey, he hits for a great average and is fine with any pitch. The “adjusting” argument might work for pure power hitters like Stanton, but not with great all around hitters like Posey.[/quote]
You can’t ever say a divisional opponent will be a piece of cake. Divisional opponents know each other well. Padres have always hit Cain and Lincecum very well. They always have a problem with Sanchez.

I never said the Giants have to give shit to the Padres. You guys just act like you dominated last year when it wasn’t so. Are you trying to make me hate you guys more than the Dodgers. Enough with the arrogance.[/quote]

Sorry what? I was staring at our World Series Championship Trophy.

No one wins a World Series on luck alone. I don’t recall ever minimizing their achievements.

Do I think some of their hitters over achieved last post season? Hell Yes.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Padres will be last again like everyone predicted last year. They’re a lot worse than the Diamondbacks.[/quote]
[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense since they got second. Be thankful they choked away the end of the season or your Giants wouldn’t have won the World Series. Not saying the Giants didn’t deserve it, but you gotta give credit to the Pads.[/quote]

Us Giants fans don’t have to give shit to the Padres. Sure, they played well over the course of the year, but the bottom line is that a LOT of things went right for them. Not that the Giants didn’t have some luck as well, but the Padres of last year and the Padres of this year are totally different teams.

First of all, no Adrian Gonzalez. And I doubt that their big offseason pickup, Orlando Hudson, will have any larger impact on the offense than Will Venable or Chase Headley. Their biggest weakness got a LOT weaker.

Their pitching was great, but let’s examine that a little closer. Are Clayton Richard and Mat Latos legit? I suppose so, but the reality is that they have no track record beyond last year and they folded down the stretch, especially Latos. Yeah, I know. He’d never pitched that deep into a season or thrown that many innings. Well, the same thing could be said about Madison Bumgarner except that he got better and better as the season wore on and saved his best for his last start of the year in the Series against the best offensive team the Giants faced all year. I don’t think that Latos or Richard are one-hit wonders by any means, but Padres fans should be concerned that Latos is getting fucking shelled in Spring Training right now.

As far as how Bumgarner and Posey will respond this year, well I picked Posey for MVP and it won’t surprise me at all if Bumgarner wins 15+ games this year. It would be one thing if these two were Cody Ross-type players who exploded on the national stage after wallowing in anonymity for years. But Posey and Bumgarner are 1st-round picks with amazing track records at every level (including their relatively short length of time in the bigs) that backs up their high talent level and high expectations. Of course they’ll need to make adjustments to continue thriving, but there’s nothing in their track record to suggest that they can’t do so; they’ve done it at every level so far and I think the reality is that the league had better start adjusting to THEM.[/quote]

Ha agreed, the only thing I’ll be thankful for in regards to the Padres is that the Giants won’t have to worry about them since they’re a pretty pathetic looking squad.

I really don’t see people “adjusting” to Posey, he hits for a great average and is fine with any pitch. The “adjusting” argument might work for pure power hitters like Stanton, but not with great all around hitters like Posey.[/quote]
You can’t ever say a divisional opponent will be a piece of cake. Divisional opponents know each other well. Padres have always hit Cain and Lincecum very well. They always have a problem with Sanchez.

I never said the Giants have to give shit to the Padres. You guys just act like you dominated last year when it wasn’t so. Are you trying to make me hate you guys more than the Dodgers. Enough with the arrogance.[/quote]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Matt Cain has a lifetime ERA of 2.92 against the Padres and they’ve managed to put together a .197 batting avg against him in that span. I can’t find Lincecum’s stats against them, but other than a couple starts last year, he’s dominated them as well.

Look, here’s why WestCoast and I get all bitter when people diss the 2010 Giants: we’re Giants fans. We’ve seen them get swept in the World Series by the cross-town rivals, we’ve seen them blow the 2002 World Series, we’ve seen the accomplishments of probably the best player we’ll ever watch in a Giants uniform get tainted by steroids, they had NEVER won a Series while in SF even though their main rival, the Dodgers, have won aomething like 6 or 7 since moving out West and the motherfucking A’s even have four under their belt.

When the Giants won it all last year, on the backs of a bunch of guys that most people outside of the Bay Area had never heard of before the last postseason (aside from their starting staff) it was an amazing experience for us Giants fans. Not only because they won, but because that team was the anti-thesis of the teams we’d been watching for years, teams loaded with unexciting veterans with little to no personality, weighed down by the colossal presence of Bonds who, while always being a fan favorite in the Bay Area, had pretty much worn out his welcome by the time he left. Before Cain and Lincecum came up, you know who the best home-grown talent to come through the Giants system was? Pedro Fucking Feliz.

So if Giants fans could have chosen exactly how their first championship in SF were to play out, this is EXACTLY how most fans would have wanted it to happen. Homegrown talent on both sides of the ball, an exciting team with a lot of great personalities and BALLPLAYERS who are the opposite of jerks like Bonds or Kent or even Robb Nen, and a somewhat unexpected run to the title. Except that us Giants fans watched them all year and we knew that they were better than most people, especially those on the East Coast, thought they were. I don’t think that the Series title really surprised that many Giants fans, especially myself or WestCoast.

And here we are, in our one moment of glory in the last 56 years and it’s sullied by the fact that most people discount their run as the result of luck. In effect, it’s a slap in the face to us Giants fans to hear that bullshit, especially all the stuff about Cody Ross getting lucky. Did he get hot at the right time? Sure, but the guy’s a pretty good ballplayer in his own right. It’s not like Jim Leyritz’s eyes-closed, hope-I-get-lucky swing against Wohlers back in the 1996 Series. So that’s why when I hear a guy like Rajraj, who probably all of ten games by the Giants last year before the postseason, or any other person who lives on the East Coast and probably never saw them play except for their matchups against the NL East, minimize their accomplishments by chalking it up to sheer luck we Giants fans get defensive. That’s all. We’re not arrogant, but our faith in the ability of the team, especially the offense (which I think is going to surprise a lot of people this year) makes us seem so when compared to others who barely watched their games this year and fail to comprehend how the Giants did it in the first place.

edit: on top of all that, we’ve gotta listen to everyone suck the Phillies starters’ cocks, even though the Giants easily have better staff top to bottom than the Phillies do AND the Giants roughed up Halladay twice last year, including Game 1 of the NLCS, Lincecum’s faced Oswalt something like 5 or 6 times in his career already and he’s outdueled him every time, and they beat the supposedly unhittable Cliff Lee twice in the Series.[/quote]

You guys are the reigning champions. That means you have 29 other teams looking to bring you down. If you can’t handle the heat get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Stop your fucking whining. Make it back to the World Series this year and then we’ll talk.

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Padres will be last again like everyone predicted last year. They’re a lot worse than the Diamondbacks.[/quote]
[/quote]
That doesn’t make sense since they got second. Be thankful they choked away the end of the season or your Giants wouldn’t have won the World Series. Not saying the Giants didn’t deserve it, but you gotta give credit to the Pads.[/quote]

Us Giants fans don’t have to give shit to the Padres. Sure, they played well over the course of the year, but the bottom line is that a LOT of things went right for them. Not that the Giants didn’t have some luck as well, but the Padres of last year and the Padres of this year are totally different teams.

First of all, no Adrian Gonzalez. And I doubt that their big offseason pickup, Orlando Hudson, will have any larger impact on the offense than Will Venable or Chase Headley. Their biggest weakness got a LOT weaker.

Their pitching was great, but let’s examine that a little closer. Are Clayton Richard and Mat Latos legit? I suppose so, but the reality is that they have no track record beyond last year and they folded down the stretch, especially Latos. Yeah, I know. He’d never pitched that deep into a season or thrown that many innings. Well, the same thing could be said about Madison Bumgarner except that he got better and better as the season wore on and saved his best for his last start of the year in the Series against the best offensive team the Giants faced all year. I don’t think that Latos or Richard are one-hit wonders by any means, but Padres fans should be concerned that Latos is getting fucking shelled in Spring Training right now.

As far as how Bumgarner and Posey will respond this year, well I picked Posey for MVP and it won’t surprise me at all if Bumgarner wins 15+ games this year. It would be one thing if these two were Cody Ross-type players who exploded on the national stage after wallowing in anonymity for years. But Posey and Bumgarner are 1st-round picks with amazing track records at every level (including their relatively short length of time in the bigs) that backs up their high talent level and high expectations. Of course they’ll need to make adjustments to continue thriving, but there’s nothing in their track record to suggest that they can’t do so; they’ve done it at every level so far and I think the reality is that the league had better start adjusting to THEM.[/quote]

Ha agreed, the only thing I’ll be thankful for in regards to the Padres is that the Giants won’t have to worry about them since they’re a pretty pathetic looking squad.

I really don’t see people “adjusting” to Posey, he hits for a great average and is fine with any pitch. The “adjusting” argument might work for pure power hitters like Stanton, but not with great all around hitters like Posey.[/quote]
You can’t ever say a divisional opponent will be a piece of cake. Divisional opponents know each other well. Padres have always hit Cain and Lincecum very well. They always have a problem with Sanchez.

I never said the Giants have to give shit to the Padres. You guys just act like you dominated last year when it wasn’t so. Are you trying to make me hate you guys more than the Dodgers. Enough with the arrogance.[/quote]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Matt Cain has a lifetime ERA of 2.92 against the Padres and they’ve managed to put together a .197 batting avg against him in that span. I can’t find Lincecum’s stats against them, but other than a couple starts last year, he’s dominated them as well.

Look, here’s why WestCoast and I get all bitter when people diss the 2010 Giants: we’re Giants fans. We’ve seen them get swept in the World Series by the cross-town rivals, we’ve seen them blow the 2002 World Series, we’ve seen the accomplishments of probably the best player we’ll ever watch in a Giants uniform get tainted by steroids, they had NEVER won a Series while in SF even though their main rival, the Dodgers, have won aomething like 6 or 7 since moving out West and the motherfucking A’s even have four under their belt.

When the Giants won it all last year, on the backs of a bunch of guys that most people outside of the Bay Area had never heard of before the last postseason (aside from their starting staff) it was an amazing experience for us Giants fans. Not only because they won, but because that team was the anti-thesis of the teams we’d been watching for years, teams loaded with unexciting veterans with little to no personality, weighed down by the colossal presence of Bonds who, while always being a fan favorite in the Bay Area, had pretty much worn out his welcome by the time he left. Before Cain and Lincecum came up, you know who the best home-grown talent to come through the Giants system was? Pedro Fucking Feliz.

So if Giants fans could have chosen exactly how their first championship in SF were to play out, this is EXACTLY how most fans would have wanted it to happen. Homegrown talent on both sides of the ball, an exciting team with a lot of great personalities and BALLPLAYERS who are the opposite of jerks like Bonds or Kent or even Robb Nen, and a somewhat unexpected run to the title. Except that us Giants fans watched them all year and we knew that they were better than most people, especially those on the East Coast, thought they were. I don’t think that the Series title really surprised that many Giants fans, especially myself or WestCoast.

And here we are, in our one moment of glory in the last 56 years and it’s sullied by the fact that most people discount their run as the result of luck. In effect, it’s a slap in the face to us Giants fans to hear that bullshit, especially all the stuff about Cody Ross getting lucky. Did he get hot at the right time? Sure, but the guy’s a pretty good ballplayer in his own right. It’s not like Jim Leyritz’s eyes-closed, hope-I-get-lucky swing against Wohlers back in the 1996 Series. So that’s why when I hear a guy like Rajraj, who probably all of ten games by the Giants last year before the postseason, or any other person who lives on the East Coast and probably never saw them play except for their matchups against the NL East, minimize their accomplishments by chalking it up to sheer luck we Giants fans get defensive. That’s all. We’re not arrogant, but our faith in the ability of the team, especially the offense (which I think is going to surprise a lot of people this year) makes us seem so when compared to others who barely watched their games this year and fail to comprehend how the Giants did it in the first place.

edit: on top of all that, we’ve gotta listen to everyone suck the Phillies starters’ cocks, even though the Giants easily have better staff top to bottom than the Phillies do AND the Giants roughed up Halladay twice last year, including Game 1 of the NLCS, Lincecum’s faced Oswalt something like 5 or 6 times in his career already and he’s outdueled him every time, and they beat the supposedly unhittable Cliff Lee twice in the Series.[/quote]

You guys are the reigning champions. That means you have 29 other teams looking to bring you down. If you can’t handle the heat get the fuck out of the kitchen.

Stop your fucking whining. Make it back to the World Series this year and then we’ll talk.

[/quote]

Sorry again, I was again distracted by the comfiness of my San Francisco Giants World Series Champions sweatshirt. What was your point?

We’re the champs, win a World Series this year and then we’ll talk.

^^^Enjoy it. Bragging time is over once the season begins.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
^^^Enjoy it. Bragging time is over once the season begins.

[/quote]

No, bragging time is over when the Giants are dethroned.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
^^^Enjoy it. Bragging time is over once the season begins.

[/quote]

No, bragging time is over when the Giants are dethroned.[/quote]

Exactly. The don’t hand out the next trophy until someone wins it rajraj, come on now. We’re not going away that easy.

Well look at this. Lidge is injured during Spring Training…again. Bicep tendinitis. Awesome. Hopefully Madson can keep from kicking a chair long enough to do something as a closer. The guy has the stuff, he just needs to get his head straight to close. I saw this weekend he went 2 innings 1 hit and 6 Ks. fingers crossed.

Oakland’s Bailey is already en route to see Dr. Andrews today. That can’t be good. Looked painful as hell, too. Pitchers are dropping like flies.

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
Well look at this. Lidge is injured during Spring Training…again. Bicep tendinitis. Awesome. Hopefully Madson can keep from kicking a chair long enough to do something as a closer. The guy has the stuff, he just needs to get his head straight to close. I saw this weekend he went 2 innings 1 hit and 6 Ks. fingers crossed.

Oakland’s Bailey is already en route to see Dr. Andrews today. That can’t be good. Looked painful as hell, too. Pitchers are dropping like flies.[/quote]

Tell me about it. The Lidge thing doesn’t sound too serious. I used to get biceps tendinitis every now and then when I pitched and it’s nothing serious. It’s stuff that happens on the OTHER side of the elbow that makes pitchers really nervous. And it sounds like that’s where Bailey’s problems are. I don’t want to jump the gun, but it looks like he’s about one painful throwing session away from another Tommy John surgery.

Sounds like Belt has a legit shot to crack the opening day lineup now, and would bat seventh if he does.

I’m torn between giving him a couple months in the minors, really boosting his confidence and bringing him up after the season has gotten into the swing of things, and simply slotting him in right from the get go.

This kid is going to be a monster either way.

Lincecum eats like a champ