He’s SOMETIMES good. haha I wouldn’t want to be a Red Sox fan and watch him pitch, but he DOES have good games sometimes. He seems like a pissy whiner who can’t keep his cool, but I mean…there are WORSE options, for sure. That Andrew Miller kid they’ve had pitching is from here in Gainesville. Not exactly doing big things…I’m pretty sure he’s walking more guys than he’s striking out? Yikes.
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Giants just traded for Orlando Cabrera.
He’s not anything special but definitely an upgrade over Tejada. [/quote]
We collect old people.[/quote]
Yeah I picked that up with the Aubrey Huff signing.
I get the impression Bochy doesn’t have much confidence in young players and loves his veterans
And Pat Burrell resigning
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
Whoever comes out of the West will have the best pitching staff coming out of the AL.
I’d take Weaver/Santana/Haren or Wilson/Ogando/Harrison over the Yankees and Red Sox pitching staffs.
I think the sleeper team of the playoffs will be the Brewers. Ridiculous home record 40-14.
This has got to be a nerve racking week for you Giants fans.
4 straight losses, on the verge of their the 5th against the team chasing them. D-backs could take over the lead tomorrow.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.[/quote]
Statistically speaking the yankees play in the AL east. Yes, it matters when comparing pitching stats.
What stats are you going by anyway? ERA, holds/saves, and WHIP? K’s?
Stats are nice for noticing trends and for generating conversation. For determining who’s better than whom, not so much. That’s my opinion.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.[/quote]
Statistically speaking the yankees play in the AL east. Yes, it matters when comparing pitching stats.
What stats are you going by anyway? ERA, holds/saves, and WHIP? K’s?
Stats are nice for noticing trends and for generating conversation. For determining who’s better than whom, not so much. That’s my opinion. [/quote]
I’m guessing he’s going by ERA since he’s a Padres fan and they have the lowest ERA in baseball. It’s funny, I’ve heard BONEZ, DB Cooper both say their teams have the best bullpens in the Majors and I’m guessing Strungoutboy was hinting he feels the Padres are the best. It’s pretty hard to say who undoubtably is the best.
How much should a team’s division come into play? - 4 teams in the AL East are over .500 and every team can hit.
Should the type of ballparks they play in most be taken into consideration? - The AL east contains 4 hitters ball parks and 1 pitcher’s ballpark while the NL West contains 3 pitchers ballparks and 2 hitters ball parks.
What about the rate at which a teams bullpen is used? If most of your SPs rarely go past 5-6 innings then your bullpen has to eat up a shitload more innings and generally pitches on less rest. Of the 3 teams mentioned, the Padres have the most innings pitched AND the lowest ERA.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.[/quote]
Statistically speaking the yankees play in the AL east. Yes, it matters when comparing pitching stats.
What stats are you going by anyway? ERA, holds/saves, and WHIP? K’s?
Stats are nice for noticing trends and for generating conversation. For determining who’s better than whom, not so much. That’s my opinion. [/quote]
I’m guessing he’s going by ERA since he’s a Padres fan and they have the lowest ERA in baseball. It’s funny, I’ve heard BONEZ, DB Cooper both say their teams have the best bullpens in the Majors and I’m guessing Strungoutboy was hinting he feels the Padres are the best. It’s pretty hard to say who undoubtably is the best.
How much should a team’s division come into play? - 4 teams in the AL East are over .500 and every team can hit.
Should the type of ballparks they play in most be taken into consideration? - The AL east contains 4 hitters ball parks and 1 pitcher’s ballpark while the NL West contains 3 pitchers ballparks and 2 hitters ball parks.
What about the rate at which a teams bullpen is used? If most of your SPs rarely go past 5-6 innings then your bullpen has to eat up a shitload more innings and generally pitches on less rest. Of the 3 teams mentioned, the Padres have the most innings pitched AND the lowest ERA.
[/quote]
There’s only one bullpen in baseball that helped pitch its team to the World Series title last year. I think that pretty much ends this discussion, given that it’s the exact same bullpen again this year.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.[/quote]
Statistically speaking the yankees play in the AL east. Yes, it matters when comparing pitching stats.
What stats are you going by anyway? ERA, holds/saves, and WHIP? K’s?
Stats are nice for noticing trends and for generating conversation. For determining who’s better than whom, not so much. That’s my opinion. [/quote]
I’m guessing he’s going by ERA since he’s a Padres fan and they have the lowest ERA in baseball. It’s funny, I’ve heard BONEZ, DB Cooper both say their teams have the best bullpens in the Majors and I’m guessing Strungoutboy was hinting he feels the Padres are the best. It’s pretty hard to say who undoubtably is the best.
How much should a team’s division come into play? - 4 teams in the AL East are over .500 and every team can hit.
Should the type of ballparks they play in most be taken into consideration? - The AL east contains 4 hitters ball parks and 1 pitcher’s ballpark while the NL West contains 3 pitchers ballparks and 2 hitters ball parks.
What about the rate at which a teams bullpen is used? If most of your SPs rarely go past 5-6 innings then your bullpen has to eat up a shitload more innings and generally pitches on less rest. Of the 3 teams mentioned, the Padres have the most innings pitched AND the lowest ERA.
[/quote]
There’s only one bullpen in baseball that helped pitch its team to the World Series title last year. I think that pretty much ends this discussion, given that it’s the exact same bullpen again this year.[/quote]
Last year was last year, this year is this year. Didn’t you say that?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Beckett and Lester are a dominant 1-2. But no one is even remotely worried about their back end. Completely justified as well. Lackey is simply terrible this season. Bedard will not have an era below 4.2 and miller/wakefield/aceves is not horrible for the 5 spot but who cares, the 5 doesnt even pitch in the postseason for a team with a true ace. [/quote]
I’d love to know how hard they ran at Ubaldo…
Seriously though, both the BoSox and the Yanks rotations look horrible in regards to making a deep run, especially when you match them against the Phillies or Giants.[/quote]
Burnett looks horrible per usual. Idiot cant throw consecutive good games. Colon is legit. Hughes is pitching great tonight and theres no reason to think he cant get his shit straightened out for the rest of the season. Garcia fools the shit out of everyone, everytime. Teams must still sleep on him. 3.22 ERA is hard to deny after 117 innings.
Yes the Giants and Phillies have a better top 3 but the yanks will be fine. Bullpen is the best in baseball (and Soriano is back now, we’ll see what he can provide as the 7th inning guy) and they have 6 starters vying for 5 spots right now. So if hughes or nova goes to the bullpen it gets even better. Chamberlain going down is a blessing. Not that he got hurt, I just dont think hes good.
[/quote]
Statistically speaking the Yankees have the 5th best bullpen in baseball. Well first in the AL if that is your point.[/quote]
Statistically speaking the yankees play in the AL east. Yes, it matters when comparing pitching stats.
What stats are you going by anyway? ERA, holds/saves, and WHIP? K’s?
Stats are nice for noticing trends and for generating conversation. For determining who’s better than whom, not so much. That’s my opinion. [/quote]
I’m guessing he’s going by ERA since he’s a Padres fan and they have the lowest ERA in baseball. It’s funny, I’ve heard BONEZ, DB Cooper both say their teams have the best bullpens in the Majors and I’m guessing Strungoutboy was hinting he feels the Padres are the best. It’s pretty hard to say who undoubtably is the best.
How much should a team’s division come into play? - 4 teams in the AL East are over .500 and every team can hit.
Should the type of ballparks they play in most be taken into consideration? - The AL east contains 4 hitters ball parks and 1 pitcher’s ballpark while the NL West contains 3 pitchers ballparks and 2 hitters ball parks.
What about the rate at which a teams bullpen is used? If most of your SPs rarely go past 5-6 innings then your bullpen has to eat up a shitload more innings and generally pitches on less rest. Of the 3 teams mentioned, the Padres have the most innings pitched AND the lowest ERA.
[/quote]
There’s only one bullpen in baseball that helped pitch its team to the World Series title last year. I think that pretty much ends this discussion, given that it’s the exact same bullpen again this year.[/quote]
Last year was last year, this year is this year. Didn’t you say that?[/quote]
Here are the only statistics regarding bullpens that matter. Win/loss record and saves. Why? Because teams play to win games, not accumulate statistics. Why does saves trump all other statistics aside from wins/losses? Because the best bullpens are the ones that thrive in close games, simply due to the fact that a team is generally going to be throwing their best arms out there in a close game. So the team that has the most saves and the best bullpen winning percentage has the best bullpen because that is the team whose bullpen has thrived in exactly the situations that they are expected to.
Guess who has the best winning percentage in baseball? The Giants, at a 22-13 record and a .629 winning percentage. Guess who has the most saves in baseball? The Giants, with 40. Also, since runs allowed determines wins and losses, let’s examine that as well. Of all bullpens with a minimum of 300 innings pitched the Giants and the Padres have both given up 106 earned runs, lowest in the majors amongst qualifying teams. But the Padres’ bullpen has a losing record (16-17) and only 31 saves compared to the Giants’ 40. And this is a team that went without Brian Wilson, arguably the best closer in all of baseball, for the first 20 games of the year. And if you really want to look at other statistics, they have the lowest opponents’ avg against in the bigs at .213.
That ends the discussion about who has the best bullpen.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Here are the only statistics regarding bullpens that matter. Win/loss record and saves. Why? Because teams play to win games, not accumulate statistics. Why does saves trump all other statistics aside from wins/losses? Because the best bullpens are the ones that thrive in close games, simply due to the fact that a team is generally going to be throwing their best arms out there in a close game. So the team that has the most saves and the best bullpen winning percentage has the best bullpen because that is the team whose bullpen has thrived in exactly the situations that they are expected to.
Guess who has the best winning percentage in baseball? The Giants, at a 22-13 record and a .629 winning percentage. Guess who has the most saves in baseball? The Giants, with 40. Also, since runs allowed determines wins and losses, let’s examine that as well. Of all bullpens with a minimum of 300 innings pitched the Giants and the Padres have both given up 106 earned runs, lowest in the majors amongst qualifying teams. But the Padres’ bullpen has a losing record (16-17) and only 31 saves compared to the Giants’ 40. And this is a team that went without Brian Wilson, arguably the best closer in all of baseball, for the first 20 games of the year. And if you really want to look at other statistics, they have the lowest opponents’ avg against in the bigs at .213.
That ends the discussion about who has the best bullpen.[/quote]
Holy cow, what an ignorant post. I don’t even know where to start but someone so willfully ignorant about what matters in assessing bullpens will not be swayed by anything I say.
LMAO though at the “we won the world series therefore we have the best bullpen in the league this year” argument a couple posts back. By that logic you should have the best starting pitching staff, and best lineup, and best defense in the league as well.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Here are the only statistics regarding bullpens that matter. Win/loss record and saves. Why? Because teams play to win games, not accumulate statistics. Why does saves trump all other statistics aside from wins/losses? Because the best bullpens are the ones that thrive in close games, simply due to the fact that a team is generally going to be throwing their best arms out there in a close game. So the team that has the most saves and the best bullpen winning percentage has the best bullpen because that is the team whose bullpen has thrived in exactly the situations that they are expected to.
Guess who has the best winning percentage in baseball? The Giants, at a 22-13 record and a .629 winning percentage. Guess who has the most saves in baseball? The Giants, with 40. Also, since runs allowed determines wins and losses, let’s examine that as well. Of all bullpens with a minimum of 300 innings pitched the Giants and the Padres have both given up 106 earned runs, lowest in the majors amongst qualifying teams. But the Padres’ bullpen has a losing record (16-17) and only 31 saves compared to the Giants’ 40. And this is a team that went without Brian Wilson, arguably the best closer in all of baseball, for the first 20 games of the year. And if you really want to look at other statistics, they have the lowest opponents’ avg against in the bigs at .213.
That ends the discussion about who has the best bullpen.[/quote]
Holy cow, what an ignorant post. I don’t even know where to start but someone so willfully ignorant about what matters in assessing bullpens will not be swayed by anything I say.
LMAO though at the “we won the world series therefore we have the best bullpen in the league this year” argument a couple posts back. By that logic you should have the best starting pitching staff, and best lineup, and best defense in the league as well.[/quote]
The World Series comment was simply a light-hearted jab at rajraj.
What is ignorant about this post? What matters more to a team, regarding its bullpen, than its ability to thrive in close games? There are only two teams that compare favorably to the Giants from a statistical standpoint when it comes to bullpens: the Padres and the Braves. But since the Padres’ bullpen has a losing record they are removed from the discussion.
Win/loss record is ALL that matters, when you get down to it. Ask any player what they care about more: winning or accumulating stats. They’ll all say winning. So what bullpen does more to help its team win than the Giants? I challenge you to show me a team whose 'pen does more to help its team win than the Giants. Remember, the Giants CONSTANTLY play in close games. Their bullpen is almost exclusively used in close games, the hardest ones to pitch successfully in. And yet, statistically-speaking, they perform better in these situations than any other team in the bigs, hence the majors best bullpen winning percentage.
And if you want to examine EVERY stat, the Giants stack up well against every other bullpen in the bigs. So please, tell me exactly how it is my post was ignorant, Oh Wise One. Are you capable of making a sensible argument for another team, and if so, let’s hear it. The first paragraph of your post simply reeks of someone who disagrees with me but can’t think of why, so don’t cop out and pull this “you can’t be convinced so I won’t even try” bullshit. The bottom line is that you are most likely unable to convince not only me but anyone else in this thread and you know it. But if you call my post ignorant the least you could do is tell me why it is ignorant.
So have at it.
I can’t help myself (note that I’m not disagreeing about the quality of SF’s bullpen, they are good, but the arguments you pointed to are totally asinine).
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Here are the only statistics regarding bullpens that matter. Win/loss record and saves.
[/quote]
Except that teams with crappy offenses/good starting pitching play a lot more close games, and therefore have a lot more DECISIONS and SAVE OPPORTUNITIES in their bullpen. Seeing as how San Fran is 2nd to last in all MLB in runs scored (and their starters have the 3rd best ERA) after 2/3 of the season we can safely say they have a crappy offense and good starting pitching, and as such their bullpen will be in a lot of tie games (i.e. decisions and wins) and most of their wins will be close (more save opps).
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Why? Because teams play to win games, not accumulate statistics.
[/quoute]
Which is why TEAM wins matter… pitching wins are a bad measure of individual performance because half of the game is out of their control. A pitcher can get a win giving up 5 runs or get a loss throwing a complete game giving up 1 run. You’d rather have the first pitcher? This particular example is extreme to illustrate a point, but there are large differences in run support between pitchers - even pitchers on the same team, due to the randomness of run scoring on any given day.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Why does saves trump all other statistics aside from wins/losses?
[/quote]
They don’t, because a pitcher gets as much credit for holding a 3-run lead in a single inning (not hard to do) as they get for coming into a bases-loaded no-out jam and striking out the side, which is much harder to do. The save rule is retarded. Coming into the 9th inning with no outs/no men on and a 2 or 3-run lead is something most major league relievers will succeed at the majority of the time.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Guess who has the best winning percentage in baseball? The Giants, at a 22-13 record and a .629 winning percentage. Guess who has the most saves in baseball? The Giants, with 40.
[/quote]
I’d consider save % more important… you can have the most save opportunities, convert them at an average rate, then claim the “best bullpen” simply because you have the most chances. The Giants are good at this too but measuring purely by saves is still retarded. Not to mention that save stats are primarily dominated by a single reliever, so it makes for a horrid way to measure an entire bullpen.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Also, since runs allowed determines wins and losses, let’s examine that as well. Of all bullpens with a minimum of 300 innings pitched the Giants and the Padres have both given up 106 earned runs, lowest in the majors amongst qualifying teams.
[/quote]
Pure genius. First, you make an arbitrary innings limit which removes the teams who have gotten the most innings out of their starters (keep in mind all teams have played a similar amount of games… which eliminates the need for an innings requirement). I’d like to know why 300 innings in particular is the demarcation line for a good sample size vs. a small sample size, I’m sure you have a detailed regression analysis explaining why you chose 300.
Also love that you chose to use total runs which is retarded given that teams have differnt amounts of innings pitched. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just use ERA, where the Giants still rank highly. Personally I’d rather use K/9 and BB/9, because that’s a measure of how many hitters you are putting away with no chance of getting a hit, versus how many hitters you are giving a free pass instead of forcing them to get on (Giants rate well here too).
[/quote]
To summarize: We can agree that whoever has the best bullpen, it isn’t the Nationals.
Oh and final thing… who you’re pitching against matters a whole lot too, as BONEZ said. I don’t think the Yankees have the BEST bullpen per say, a lot of their guys have flamed out elsewhere and I need to see more before I believe in the likes of Boone Logan (good if he keeps his walks down), Luis Ayala who hasn’t been good since 2007, and Soriano who just came back from the DL and is a ticking time bomb.
But, every pitcher in the AL East should be viewed as “better than the stats”… even though the Yankees pitchers don’t have to face the Yankee lineup.
I’ll take your argument one point at a time here.
-
Regardless of how many opportunities the Giants’ 'pen has to earn saves and wins, it doesn’t change the fact that they DO win those games and that they DO earn those saves and that their winning percentage in those situations is the best in all of baseball.
-
Your second point is irrelevant. The Giants’ 'pen isn’t the beneficiary of a good offense that overcomes their poor bullpen. The bullpen is constantly pitching in tight situations and thriving, more so than any other team as evidenced by their superior winning percentage. The amount of wins doesn’t matter. There are bullpens with more wins than the Giants (The Marlins) but there are no 'pens that win MORE OFTEN in these situations. Team wins are a poor measure of performance regarding starting pitchers, but not bullpens.
-
Given that the Giants play in more 1-run games than any other team BY FAR, the saves stat is very relevant. If you look at the totality of the Giants’ bullpen’s stats, it is apparent that they thrive in 3 run games, 1 run games and 4 run games. This is a team that has scored 6 or more runs at home ONCE all year. The fact that they have such a great success rate regarding saves and winning percentage is further evidence that this particular bullpen thrives in close situations of all kinds, because they’ve been in so many of them.
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The Giants have one of the best, if not the best, saves rate in the majors. I haven’t found that stat so if you have it please provide it.
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The only reason I pre-qualified the innings thing is because I didn’t feel like explaining that the only team in the majors whose bullpen has given up less runs than the Giants’ are the Phillies’ bullpen and the Yankees (106 to 104[p] and 101[ny]). But the Phillies have thrown something like 277 innings out of the ‘pen and the Yankees have thrown 295 compared to the Giants’ 326. Neither team’s bullpen matches up well against the Giants in any other statistical category.