[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I’ll agree with you on that one.
What are peoples thoughts on Jose Bautista?
It looks like last season was no fluke as he already has five jacks this year. Honestly, I’m just very curious about him, where he came from, and how he’s pretty much just burst onto the scene.
I’ll also say that 1% of me also wonders if he’s found the next best performance enhancing method. Most of me believes that he’s just a great player breaking out, but I’ll admit that the thought about what might really be happening is still there.
Canada is a crazy place, maybe he;s found the northern version of Victor Conte…
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on Jose Bautista?
It looks like last season was no fluke as he already has five jacks this year. Honestly, I’m just very curious about him, where he came from, and how he’s pretty much just burst onto the scene.
I’ll also say that 1% of me also wonders if he’s found the next best performance enhancing method. Most of me believes that he’s just a great player breaking out, but I’ll admit that the thought about what might really be happening is still there.
Canada is a crazy place, maybe he;s found the northern version of Victor Conte…[/quote]
lol I’ve heard the steroids thing a few times. On another forum a bunch of Yankee fans posted the same question about Jose Bautista right after he hit a walk off homer against them last season.
Honestly, I think the Pirates just gave up on him and the rest of the team he was on too soon.
The Pirates tore apart a roster that included the following current or future (at that time) all stars : Jose Bautista, Jason Bay, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Matt Capps and Nate McLouth. Instead of spending some money on this team, they just decided to fold their cards.
The Pirates ended up acquiring Adam LaRoche which basically led to the end of regular playing time for Bautista.
He then was basically a sparsely used utility player from 2008 and most of 2009 until he was given regular playing time in September 2009.
The regular playing time coupled with the tweeks made to his swing (getting started earlier) and Cito Gaston’s aggressive approach to hitting is what lead to his success. Blue Jays hitters do not sit back, work counts, they go up there looking for their pitch and swing.
I went to PNC Park in 2006, and come to think of it I saw Bautista play live before he was a Jay. Hard to see without the full image but in the pic he’s batting 8th. It’s weird looking back thinking he was going to eventually be the best player on that team.
For you Giants fans, I also got a free Freddie Sanchez bobble head that night 
Speaking of Jose, just hit #6 
EDIT: and #7
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Speaking of Jose, just hit #6
EDIT: and #7[/quote]
Dude is a straight up BEAST.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I don’t think so at all. I knew from the first time I saw him that he’d have arm troubles. He has a very similar motion to Matt Prior, both of whom take the ball out of their mitt during their motion in a way that puts huge stress on the supraspinatus and the rotator cuff. Remember, Strasburg had a shoulder issue before he blew his elbow out. Since the weaker of the two links is the elbow, it blew out due to the extra stress it forced to take on as a way of alleviating the stress he puts on his shoulder.
He’ll come back, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns into another Mark Prior. It’s certainly not impossible, but I seriously wonder how Strasburg will fare after he’s forced to esssentially relearn how to throw. Like I said, the first time I saw him throw I knew he’d blow something out at some point and unless he fixes that mechanical issue he’ll continue to deal with injuries. I remember when Mark Prior initially went down and everyone was like “oh, he’ll come back and be just fine.” It never happened because he never fixed his motion. Unless Strasburg fixes his, I doubt he’ll ever play a full season in the bigs.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I don’t think so at all. I knew from the first time I saw him that he’d have arm troubles. He has a very similar motion to Matt Prior, both of whom take the ball out of their mitt during their motion in a way that puts huge stress on the supraspinatus and the rotator cuff. Remember, Strasburg had a shoulder issue before he blew his elbow out. Since the weaker of the two links is the elbow, it blew out due to the extra stress it forced to take on as a way of alleviating the stress he puts on his shoulder.
He’ll come back, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns into another Mark Prior. It’s certainly not impossible, but I seriously wonder how Strasburg will fare after he’s forced to esssentially relearn how to throw. Like I said, the first time I saw him throw I knew he’d blow something out at some point and unless he fixes that mechanical issue he’ll continue to deal with injuries. I remember when Mark Prior initially went down and everyone was like “oh, he’ll come back and be just fine.” It never happened because he never fixed his motion. Unless Strasburg fixes his, I doubt he’ll ever play a full season in the bigs.[/quote]
Chris OLeary agrees with you 100%
He’s got a lot of slow motion analysis of pitching and hitting mechanics. Cool stuff. His ideas on an injury free approach to pitching are certainly outside of the box.
Read past his claim that Verducci is plagarizing him if you just want to see the substance.
I really hope you guys are wrong ^^^
EDIT: I remember hearing the same thing about BJ Ryan, and it ended up being true =(
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I don’t think so at all. I knew from the first time I saw him that he’d have arm troubles. He has a very similar motion to Matt Prior, both of whom take the ball out of their mitt during their motion in a way that puts huge stress on the supraspinatus and the rotator cuff. Remember, Strasburg had a shoulder issue before he blew his elbow out. Since the weaker of the two links is the elbow, it blew out due to the extra stress it forced to take on as a way of alleviating the stress he puts on his shoulder.
He’ll come back, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns into another Mark Prior. It’s certainly not impossible, but I seriously wonder how Strasburg will fare after he’s forced to esssentially relearn how to throw. Like I said, the first time I saw him throw I knew he’d blow something out at some point and unless he fixes that mechanical issue he’ll continue to deal with injuries. I remember when Mark Prior initially went down and everyone was like “oh, he’ll come back and be just fine.” It never happened because he never fixed his motion. Unless Strasburg fixes his, I doubt he’ll ever play a full season in the bigs.[/quote]
Chris OLeary agrees with you 100%
He’s got a lot of slow motion analysis of pitching and hitting mechanics. Cool stuff. His ideas on an injury free approach to pitching are certainly outside of the box.
Read past his claim that Verducci is plagarizing him if you just want to see the substance. [/quote]
I’ve never heard of that guy before, but he’s spot on. Tom House is another top expert when it comes to pitching mechanics and I used to read a lot of his shit when I was coaching. The whole “inverted W” thing is exactly what tipped me off about Strasburg.
Try standing up straight with your hands together in front of your chest. Now turn your elbows down and out to create two circles with your arms, as if you’re taking the ball out of your mitt to throw it. As your throwing arm thumb begins to point downward, start moving the ball up over and behind your head like you normally would, except try to lead with your elbow more than the ball. It’s hard to explain, but this is what Strasburg does and I don’t get it. It seriously hurts my shoulder just trying it in slow motion.
The thing about his throwing arm being late in comparison to his landing foot isn’t that big a deal IF Strasburg learns how to keep his torso squared up toward third base longer. Lincecum is really late with his arm; I think when his foot lands, he’s barely got the ball pulled out from behind his back. But his hips have already rotated toward home plate yet his torso is still twisted almost back toward second. So the his upper body is still being pulled through by his hips, meaning that even though the arm is late it’s still just coming along for the ride. When Strasburg is late, he loses a lot of torque and is forced to compensate by actually using his arm to accelerate the ball much more so than Lincecum does. When the whole body accelerates the arm forward, the arm is loose and free. When the arm tries to do too much, it is tight and prone to injury.
Another thing I noticed about Strasburg is that his stride isn’t very long. In that link’s picture he looks like he’s less than 6’ down the mound, even though he’s 6’4". Typically stride length is a big determining factor when it comes to velocity. Again, Lincecum is an extreme in the other direction. As we all know, pitchers typically stride their height down the mound. Lincecum, at 5’10", strides something like 7’ down the mound.
What’s really amazing are guys like him who can throw so fucking hard even with fucked up mechanics. When Strasburg comes back, unless his motion is noticeably different from my great view here on the couch, he’s done. Even then, he might make it as a long reliever or something. I just don’t anticipate him having shoulder problems that led to a blown-out elbow, having to majorly overhaul his entire throwing motion, possibly losing velocity as a result of the surgery coupled with new mechanics that he’s unfamiliar with and still having any sort of success.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I don’t think so at all. I knew from the first time I saw him that he’d have arm troubles. He has a very similar motion to Matt Prior, both of whom take the ball out of their mitt during their motion in a way that puts huge stress on the supraspinatus and the rotator cuff. Remember, Strasburg had a shoulder issue before he blew his elbow out. Since the weaker of the two links is the elbow, it blew out due to the extra stress it forced to take on as a way of alleviating the stress he puts on his shoulder.
He’ll come back, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns into another Mark Prior. It’s certainly not impossible, but I seriously wonder how Strasburg will fare after he’s forced to esssentially relearn how to throw. Like I said, the first time I saw him throw I knew he’d blow something out at some point and unless he fixes that mechanical issue he’ll continue to deal with injuries. I remember when Mark Prior initially went down and everyone was like “oh, he’ll come back and be just fine.” It never happened because he never fixed his motion. Unless Strasburg fixes his, I doubt he’ll ever play a full season in the bigs.[/quote]
Chris OLeary agrees with you 100%
He’s got a lot of slow motion analysis of pitching and hitting mechanics. Cool stuff. His ideas on an injury free approach to pitching are certainly outside of the box.
Read past his claim that Verducci is plagarizing him if you just want to see the substance. [/quote]
Good stuff BONEZ, thanks for posting that. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts on Lincecum.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Strasburg will never pan out? Seems a little early to be saying that. [/quote]
I don’t think so at all. I knew from the first time I saw him that he’d have arm troubles. He has a very similar motion to Matt Prior, both of whom take the ball out of their mitt during their motion in a way that puts huge stress on the supraspinatus and the rotator cuff. Remember, Strasburg had a shoulder issue before he blew his elbow out. Since the weaker of the two links is the elbow, it blew out due to the extra stress it forced to take on as a way of alleviating the stress he puts on his shoulder.
He’ll come back, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he turns into another Mark Prior. It’s certainly not impossible, but I seriously wonder how Strasburg will fare after he’s forced to esssentially relearn how to throw. Like I said, the first time I saw him throw I knew he’d blow something out at some point and unless he fixes that mechanical issue he’ll continue to deal with injuries. I remember when Mark Prior initially went down and everyone was like “oh, he’ll come back and be just fine.” It never happened because he never fixed his motion. Unless Strasburg fixes his, I doubt he’ll ever play a full season in the bigs.[/quote]
Chris OLeary agrees with you 100%
He’s got a lot of slow motion analysis of pitching and hitting mechanics. Cool stuff. His ideas on an injury free approach to pitching are certainly outside of the box.
Read past his claim that Verducci is plagarizing him if you just want to see the substance. [/quote]
I’ve never heard of that guy before, but he’s spot on. Tom House is another top expert when it comes to pitching mechanics and I used to read a lot of his shit when I was coaching. The whole “inverted W” thing is exactly what tipped me off about Strasburg.
Try standing up straight with your hands together in front of your chest. Now turn your elbows down and out to create two circles with your arms, as if you’re taking the ball out of your mitt to throw it. As your throwing arm thumb begins to point downward, start moving the ball up over and behind your head like you normally would, except try to lead with your elbow more than the ball. It’s hard to explain, but this is what Strasburg does and I don’t get it. It seriously hurts my shoulder just trying it in slow motion.
The thing about his throwing arm being late in comparison to his landing foot isn’t that big a deal IF Strasburg learns how to keep his torso squared up toward third base longer. Lincecum is really late with his arm; I think when his foot lands, he’s barely got the ball pulled out from behind his back. But his hips have already rotated toward home plate yet his torso is still twisted almost back toward second. So the his upper body is still being pulled through by his hips, meaning that even though the arm is late it’s still just coming along for the ride. When Strasburg is late, he loses a lot of torque and is forced to compensate by actually using his arm to accelerate the ball much more so than Lincecum does. When the whole body accelerates the arm forward, the arm is loose and free. When the arm tries to do too much, it is tight and prone to injury.
Another thing I noticed about Strasburg is that his stride isn’t very long. In that link’s picture he looks like he’s less than 6’ down the mound, even though he’s 6’4". Typically stride length is a big determining factor when it comes to velocity. Again, Lincecum is an extreme in the other direction. As we all know, pitchers typically stride their height down the mound. Lincecum, at 5’10", strides something like 7’ down the mound.
What’s really amazing are guys like him who can throw so fucking hard even with fucked up mechanics. When Strasburg comes back, unless his motion is noticeably different from my great view here on the couch, he’s done. Even then, he might make it as a long reliever or something. I just don’t anticipate him having shoulder problems that led to a blown-out elbow, having to majorly overhaul his entire throwing motion, possibly losing velocity as a result of the surgery coupled with new mechanics that he’s unfamiliar with and still having any sort of success.[/quote]
I started pitching again for this summer because our best guy is just getting better from shoulder inflamation, hopefully I dont need to be used because Im not that good lol. (amateur adult league, nothing special) Anyway. I cant even move my body the way strasburg does. My arms literally cant go back that far. Poor flexibility and upper back mass are probably the reasons but at least its keeping me from putting that sort of strain on my shoulder. Its creating another problem though because I cant get good extension and Im short arming the ball a bit too much and it was killing my elbow the first few ‘bullpens’. I dont think Ill get hurt simply because I wont ever have to throw more than 40 pitches at a time but I wont be surprised if the UCL pops one day. Oh well.
OK back to real baseball.
Freddy Garcia for Cy young.
I think his stuff on hitting is a bit better than his pitching stuff. It’s how I learned of him. Andres Torres is one of his clients at the moment.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ProfessionalPitcherAnalyses/TimLincecum.html[/quote]
Very interesting. Seems like he’s mostly concerned with timing problems with Tim, also some stress on the arm/shoulder, but I think that is pretty normal for any hard throwing pitcher.
He also compared his motion to Maddux, which is fine with me.
2 Cy Youngs + World Series Championship + Greg Maddux Comparison = Win.
You all can suck it!!
Disclaimer - as soon as the Phils get bumped from the top spot of this list I will declare this list absolutely meaningless and claim only morons would follow some ESPN writer’s analysis without forming their own opinion.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
You all can suck it!!
Disclaimer - as soon as the Phils get bumped from the top spot of this list I will declare this list absolutely meaningless and claim only morons would follow some ESPN writer’s analysis without forming their own opinion.[/quote]
It should be noted that they swept a team that has the worst offense in the majors.
So are the Cleveland Indians legit?
Also how long will it take Pablo Sandoval to learn how to jackoff with his other hand??
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Also how long will it take Pablo Sandoval to learn how to jackoff with his other hand??[/quote]
Wow dude, watch yourself. DO NOT talk about the Kung Fu Panda like that.
You might get a Krispy Creme ninja-star to the back of your skull.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
So are the Cleveland Indians legit?[/quote]
Yes.
I am very clearly an unbiased opinion.