MLB Playoffs 2010

Off Topic
81

Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.

82

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Wasn’t a no hitter, but I’ll take 14 K’s and a complete game win from Lincecum.[/quote]

Yea man he pitched an awesome game. If i hadn’t seen halladay pitch that no hitter id say you can’t pitch any better than lincecum did, he’s a fuckin stud.[/quote]

Not to sound like I am belittling 14 Ks, but the Braves looked pitiful last night. The fact that Lincecum got out of the first inning unscathed is a testament to how undisciplined the Braves were at the plate.

Instead of getting work done this morning, I spent a little time fucking around and found this comparison of Halladay’s game vs. Lincecum. Again, I am not taking anything away from Lincecum’s performance, but given how much he was struggling to find the strike zone, I can’t understand why the Braves didn’t take more pitches.[/quote]

Maybe because he wasn’t actually struggling to locate his pitches?(notice I said locate, not hit the strike zone). If a more breaking-ball oriented pitcher missed high that often he’d have gotten lit up, but Timmy is throwing up there because he brings heat. The low pitches don’t even need an explanation(on both charts), you miss low on purpose, check out how many of those are swinging strikes… people getting baited all day.

Edit: I don’t really know what I’m arguing with this post, I do think Halladay’s was the superior performance, it’s just… that chart isn’t what tells you that(nor is the strike:ball count in their respective games).

83

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]SickAbs wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Wasn’t a no hitter, but I’ll take 14 K’s and a complete game win from Lincecum.[/quote]

Yea man he pitched an awesome game. If i hadn’t seen halladay pitch that no hitter id say you can’t pitch any better than lincecum did, he’s a fuckin stud.[/quote]

Not to sound like I am belittling 14 Ks, but the Braves looked pitiful last night. The fact that Lincecum got out of the first inning unscathed is a testament to how undisciplined the Braves were at the plate.

Instead of getting work done this morning, I spent a little time fucking around and found this comparison of Halladay’s game vs. Lincecum. Again, I am not taking anything away from Lincecum’s performance, but given how much he was struggling to find the strike zone, I can’t understand why the Braves didn’t take more pitches.[/quote]

Maybe because he wasn’t actually struggling to locate his pitches?(notice I said locate, not hit the strike zone). If a more breaking-ball oriented pitcher missed high that often he’d have gotten lit up, but Timmy is throwing up there because he brings heat. The low pitches don’t even need an explanation(on both charts), you miss low on purpose, check out how many of those are swinging strikes… people getting baited all day.[/quote]

Exactly. Timmmy’s nastiest pitch is his change up, which drops right out of the zone.

I will internet high five your avatar in agreement.

84

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.[/quote]

I would have thought that a Braves fan could appreciate a little Sabermetrics since Keith Law was the main reason Lincecum got the Cy Young last year over Wainwright or Carpenter in the first place.

I didn’t say he had a bad performance but seeing as I thought this was supposed to be a discussion I thought I would introduce something outside of “neat pitching I like it”. If someone got on yesterday and questioned why the Reds didn’t try to swing at more first pitches against Halladay seeing as he threw 24 first pitch strikes it would have been a valid point. Yes, a good pitcher can mesmerize the batters; god knows I saw that happen to the Phillies more than a few times this summer.

I wasn’t pulling an Orlando Cabrera and blaming the umpire for calls, but you have to admit that particularly in the first inning his control was off. Either that or Buster Posey has no fucking clue where to put his glove. His pitches per inning dropped significantly after the first two innings which says the Braves were pressing. Good pitching does that. I didn’t say it wasn’t a good performance but I hope to hell the Phils were watching that game thinking they better make Lincecum throw more pitches when they face him.

Now stop taking everything as a personal insult.

85

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.[/quote]

I would have thought that a Braves fan could appreciate a little Sabermetrics since Keith Law was the main reason Lincecum got the Cy Young last year over Wainwright or Carpenter in the first place.

I didn’t say he had a bad performance but seeing as I thought this was supposed to be a discussion I thought I would introduce something outside of “neat pitching I like it”. If someone got on yesterday and questioned why the Reds didn’t try to swing at more first pitches against Halladay seeing as he threw 24 first pitch strikes it would have been a valid point. Yes, a good pitcher can mesmerize the batters; god knows I saw that happen to the Phillies more than a few times this summer.

I wasn’t pulling an Orlando Cabrera and blaming the umpire for calls, but you have to admit that particularly in the first inning his control was off. Either that or Buster Posey has no fucking clue where to put his glove. His pitches per inning dropped significantly after the first two innings which says the Braves were pressing. Good pitching does that. I didn’t say it wasn’t a good performance but I hope to hell the Phils were watching that game thinking they better make Lincecum throw more pitches when they face him.

Now stop taking everything as a personal insult.[/quote]

Damn i love a girl who is passionate about baseball…im going to the game today, if you are too you should come party and pregame with us. Anyway, while lincecum will be tough for the phils we have just as good pitching. But, our hitting is faaar superior. Im predicting a couple 2-0 wins.

86

I’d be lying if I said I was excited about facing Lincecum in the NLCS (should both the Phils and Giants win their respective series). Not that I think we can’t get to him (the Phils have been known to light up aces in the past), but it’ll be damn tough. He had an “off” season this year but it seems like he’s the real deal come playoff time.

87

[quote]SickAbs wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.[/quote]

I would have thought that a Braves fan could appreciate a little Sabermetrics since Keith Law was the main reason Lincecum got the Cy Young last year over Wainwright or Carpenter in the first place.

I didn’t say he had a bad performance but seeing as I thought this was supposed to be a discussion I thought I would introduce something outside of “neat pitching I like it”. If someone got on yesterday and questioned why the Reds didn’t try to swing at more first pitches against Halladay seeing as he threw 24 first pitch strikes it would have been a valid point. Yes, a good pitcher can mesmerize the batters; god knows I saw that happen to the Phillies more than a few times this summer.

I wasn’t pulling an Orlando Cabrera and blaming the umpire for calls, but you have to admit that particularly in the first inning his control was off. Either that or Buster Posey has no fucking clue where to put his glove. His pitches per inning dropped significantly after the first two innings which says the Braves were pressing. Good pitching does that. I didn’t say it wasn’t a good performance but I hope to hell the Phils were watching that game thinking they better make Lincecum throw more pitches when they face him.

Now stop taking everything as a personal insult.[/quote]

Damn i love a girl who is passionate about baseball…im going to the game today, if you are too you should come party and pregame with us. Anyway, while lincecum will be tough for the phils we have just as good pitching. But, our hitting is faaar superior. Im predicting a couple 2-0 wins.
[/quote]

I wish I could get a hold of tickets. I registered 4 different e-mail accounts for the lottery this year and got turned down on all of them (not that I was really expecting anything different).

Back in July there were a few people who “offered” us post season tickets, but they have conveniently forgotten that now. Bastards!

88

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I’d be lying if I said I was excited about facing Lincecum in the NLCS (should both the Phils and Giants win their respective series). Not that I think we can’t get to him (the Phils have been known to light up aces in the past), but it’ll be damn tough. He had an “off” season this year but it seems like he’s the real deal come playoff time.[/quote]

Well he shut down the Phils when they were out in SF during the regular season then Bochy brought Wilson in for the 9th and he blew the save. That was a crazy inning with a few botched plays in left if I remember correctly.

Seeing as the series would start in Philly, I’m hopeful the crowd can shake Lincecum just enough to give the Phils’ bats a chance.

89

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
And Halladay’s.[/quote]

Those charts don’t indicate anything and they aren’t an example of sabremetrics at work. Sabermetrics primarily refer to rates. What the chart shows is simply where Halladay is effective versus where Lincecum is effective.

Lincecum is a pitcher whose biggest weapon is the deception in his delivery and his changeup. The fact that he doesn’t really sink the ball mandates that he be effective pitching on the top of the zone and at the knees on the corners. His delivery allows him to effectively pitch above the strike zone with the fastball, which enhances his changeup, his primary strikeout pitch. As a result, he’s going to a have a chart which has more pitches out of the strike zone high, and a LOT of pitches that are out of the strike zone low.

Halladay is basically Greg Maddux with a 94mph fastball. He gets a lot of strikeouts, but most of them are looking and he doesn’t get nearly as many Lincecum. Halladay’s strength is that he’s around the zone so much, especially down in the zone, that he gets hitters into an aggressive mode that enhances his ability to change speeds between his cutter and his sinker. There’s no deception at all in his delivery so he relies on his command rather than the inability of the hitter to pick the ball up and decipher pitch type and location. With Lincecum, hitters don’t where the ball’s coming from or where it’s going. With Halladay, the hitter knows where the ball’s coming from and where it’s going, but it’s always going to be down with late movement and the hitter doesn’t know which pitch it’s going to be. With Lincecum, everyone in the ballpark knows he’s going with the changeup down when he gets to two strikes, and they still can’t hit it. Halladay could throw any pitch at any time, but it’s going to be in the strikezone and with more movement than Lincecum.

Now, I’m not trying to bash Halladay by any means. He’s the best pitcher in the league and in my mind, is the prototypical modern pitcher. But Lincecum ain’t no slouch. The way he threw last night was as impressive as Halladay’s outing. To throw the way Lincecum did, in a 1-0 game, is huge. There’s more pressure on Lincecum in that scenario, given that he wasn’t spotted a 4-0 lead right off the bat and knowing that if he falters, the Giants probably aren’t going to come back.

90

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.[/quote]

I would have thought that a Braves fan could appreciate a little Sabermetrics since Keith Law was the main reason Lincecum got the Cy Young last year over Wainwright or Carpenter in the first place.[/quote]

I stopped reading after this portion, because A) I am not a Braves fan and B) One person doesn’t have a dramatic impact on the Cy Young voting.

Overall though I will agree, the Phillies definitely have the advantage because of their bats. Hopefully the Giants can find some playoff magic.

91

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Those graphs are 100% useless. They don’t indicate what type of pitch was being thrown, and they don’t note the pitch sequence of those chosen pitches. You can’t capture the a pitchers performance on a poor little diagram like that, get that out of here.

Lincecum lead the league in strikeouts, so I’m pretty sure it’s not just the Braves that have trouble with his stuff. And did you ever stop to think that maybe the Braves looked so undisciplined because of how Lincecum works the zone?

Think before you speak.

I will say that right now, Halladay’s season has been one of the best I’ve ever seen. I’m glad to finally see him get into the playoffs.[/quote]

I would have thought that a Braves fan could appreciate a little Sabermetrics since Keith Law was the main reason Lincecum got the Cy Young last year over Wainwright or Carpenter in the first place.[/quote]

I stopped reading after this portion, because A) I am not a Braves fan and B) One person doesn’t have a dramatic impact on the Cy Young voting.

Overall though I will agree, the Phillies definitely have the advantage because of their bats. Hopefully the Giants can find some playoff magic.[/quote]

I noticed the typo after I posted and did an edit, but it didn’t post so I will give you that.

But, Keith Law did affect the Cy Young. Everyone else had Wainwright and Carpenter as either 1 or 2 and Lincecum as 3. Since Wainwright and Carpenter had to split the points from the top two votes neither one had a clear advantage. Law then decided to leave Wainwright and Carpenter completely off of the ballet which allowed Lincecum to eek out the award. Look it up.

92

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
And Halladay’s.[/quote]

Those charts don’t indicate anything and they aren’t an example of sabremetrics at work. Sabermetrics primarily refer to rates. What the chart shows is simply where Halladay is effective versus where Lincecum is effective.

Lincecum is a pitcher whose biggest weapon is the deception in his delivery and his changeup. The fact that he doesn’t really sink the ball mandates that he be effective pitching on the top of the zone and at the knees on the corners. His delivery allows him to effectively pitch above the strike zone with the fastball, which enhances his changeup, his primary strikeout pitch. As a result, he’s going to a have a chart which has more pitches out of the strike zone high, and a LOT of pitches that are out of the strike zone low.

Halladay is basically Greg Maddux with a 94mph fastball. He gets a lot of strikeouts, but most of them are looking and he doesn’t get nearly as many Lincecum. Halladay’s strength is that he’s around the zone so much, especially down in the zone, that he gets hitters into an aggressive mode that enhances his ability to change speeds between his cutter and his sinker. There’s no deception at all in his delivery so he relies on his command rather than the inability of the hitter to pick the ball up and decipher pitch type and location. With Lincecum, hitters don’t where the ball’s coming from or where it’s going. With Halladay, the hitter knows where the ball’s coming from and where it’s going, but it’s always going to be down with late movement and the hitter doesn’t know which pitch it’s going to be. With Lincecum, everyone in the ballpark knows he’s going with the changeup down when he gets to two strikes, and they still can’t hit it. Halladay could throw any pitch at any time, but it’s going to be in the strikezone and with more movement than Lincecum.

Now, I’m not trying to bash Halladay by any means. He’s the best pitcher in the league and in my mind, is the prototypical modern pitcher. But Lincecum ain’t no slouch. The way he threw last night was as impressive as Halladay’s outing. To throw the way Lincecum did, in a 1-0 game, is huge. There’s more pressure on Lincecum in that scenario, given that he wasn’t spotted a 4-0 lead right off the bat and knowing that if he falters, the Giants probably aren’t going to come back. [/quote]

OK. I could have left off Halladay’s pitches as I wasn’t really comparing the two; I just thought that was impressive as hell when I came across it. I didn’t say that Lincecum’s performance wasn’t great, but as I watched the game last night I was dumbfounded by the Braves at the plate.

The Braves had their shot to do something early on, couldn’t get it done and pretty much laid down. It’s not like they were hot going in to the series, they have looked like shit for the past two weeks. Considering I would much rather the Phils see the Braves in the NLCS over the Giants it was frustrating as hell.

93

1600×1200 416 KB

My seats for game 1 were awesome. My step dad and I had our own row, I could have Steve Barton’ed that whole game up, haha.

There was only 1 seat in front of ours. Not 1 row, just 1 seat! Best seats I’ve ever had. Great shot at catching a foul ball there, too.

94

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
My seats for game 1 were awesome. My step dad and I had our own row, I could have Steve Barton’ed that whole game up, haha.[/quote]

Nice calf development bro.

95

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
My seats for game 1 were awesome. My step dad and I had our own row, I could have Steve Barton’ed that whole game up, haha.[/quote]

Nice calf development bro.[/quote]

Lol, that’s my Mom’s husband. He’s about a foot shorter than me; I don’t want people on T-Nation thinking that’s me, haha.

96

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
as I watched the game last night I was dumbfounded by the Braves at the plate.[/quote]

I’m sure you’d look a lot better up there in the box.

It’s really not that hard to figure out. Lincecum revamped his slider, throws it with similar arm speed and action as his change, and can mess with hitters even worse than he could before since the move in opposite directions.

~

Hopefully Cain pick up where Timmy left off…

97

WOW, I thought the Twins were brutal but the Reds are HORRIBLE. What a train wreck I can’t watch anymore.

98

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
as I watched the game last night I was dumbfounded by the Braves at the plate.[/quote]

I’m sure you’d look a lot better up there in the box.

It’s really not that hard to figure out. Lincecum revamped his slider, throws it with similar arm speed and action as his change, and can mess with hitters even worse than he could before since the move in opposite directions.

~

Hopefully Cain pick up where Timmy left off…

[/quote]

ORANGE FRIDAY!!!

99

That was the worst inning of defense I’ve seen in a while during the playoffs. Never seen bad luck and bad execution compounded like that late in a game. Feel bad for Chapman.

100

[quote]aznt0rk wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]SmilingPolitely wrote:
as I watched the game last night I was dumbfounded by the Braves at the plate.[/quote]

I’m sure you’d look a lot better up there in the box.

It’s really not that hard to figure out. Lincecum revamped his slider, throws it with similar arm speed and action as his change, and can mess with hitters even worse than he could before since the move in opposite directions.

~

Hopefully Cain pick up where Timmy left off…

[/quote]

ORANGE FRIDAY!!![/quote]

BOOM. Halloween colors for the whole month of October, and maybe November…