MLB 2012

Off Topic
1041

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Put a fork in the Cardinals, they are done. No way they are coming back down six runs. Their pitching and defense has been garbage. Hopefully the World Series will be better than these two championship series. Even though the NL series went seven games, only two games were actually close.[/quote]

If the Giants hang on to win, who do you like to win the Series? Obviously I’ll be pulling for the Giants, but if I were an objective betting man I’d like the Tigers in 6. Verlander is a Fucking Beast and as good as the Giants have looked on offense this year (I think they scored the 2nd most runs in the NL and they led the majors in runs per game on the road at more than 5, better than the Yankees), they struggle against good pitchers. Of course, pretty much everyone does, but they have a real propensity for getting it shoved up their ass big-time by good pitchers.

But how ironic will it be that the Giants will have homefield advantage in the Series thanks to Melky Cabrera, who did damage in the first inning off of Verlander of all people, who now does NOT have homefield advantage because the Giants’ All Stars were better than him in the Series. That’s as close as you can get to really earning homefield advantage in this day and age I guess.

1042

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Put a fork in the Cardinals, they are done. No way they are coming back down six runs. Their pitching and defense has been garbage. Hopefully the World Series will be better than these two championship series. Even though the NL series went seven games, only two games were actually close.[/quote]

If the Giants hang on to win, who do you like to win the Series? Obviously I’ll be pulling for the Giants, but if I were an objective betting man I’d like the Tigers in 6. Verlander is a Fucking Beast and as good as the Giants have looked on offense this year (I think they scored the 2nd most runs in the NL and they led the majors in runs per game on the road at more than 5, better than the Yankees), they struggle against good pitchers. Of course, pretty much everyone does, but they have a real propensity for getting it shoved up their ass big-time by good pitchers.

But how ironic will it be that the Giants will have homefield advantage in the Series thanks to Melky Cabrera, who did damage in the first inning off of Verlander of all people, who now does NOT have homefield advantage because the Giants’ All Stars were better than him in the Series. That’s as close as you can get to really earning homefield advantage in this day and age I guess.[/quote]
Well at least the team with the best record will have homefield advantage, but not because of having a better record.

The Tigers are looking good with having Verlander set up to go in game 1. Not sure who the Giants will throw out there, Zito? Lincecum? Bumgarner? I’m sure they will possible have Vogelsong lined up for game 2. I like the Giants winning the series in 7. I wasn’t too impressed with the Tigers sweeping the Yankees. The Yankees offense is completely different from the Giants so it will be interesting to see how they approach it. That and how the Tigers will manage Verlander in an NL park where he has to bat.

1043

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Put a fork in the Cardinals, they are done. No way they are coming back down six runs. Their pitching and defense has been garbage. Hopefully the World Series will be better than these two championship series. Even though the NL series went seven games, only two games were actually close.[/quote]

If the Giants hang on to win, who do you like to win the Series? Obviously I’ll be pulling for the Giants, but if I were an objective betting man I’d like the Tigers in 6. Verlander is a Fucking Beast and as good as the Giants have looked on offense this year (I think they scored the 2nd most runs in the NL and they led the majors in runs per game on the road at more than 5, better than the Yankees), they struggle against good pitchers. Of course, pretty much everyone does, but they have a real propensity for getting it shoved up their ass big-time by good pitchers.

But how ironic will it be that the Giants will have homefield advantage in the Series thanks to Melky Cabrera, who did damage in the first inning off of Verlander of all people, who now does NOT have homefield advantage because the Giants’ All Stars were better than him in the Series. That’s as close as you can get to really earning homefield advantage in this day and age I guess.[/quote]
Well at least the team with the best record will have homefield advantage, but not because of having a better record.

The Tigers are looking good with having Verlander set up to go in game 1. Not sure who the Giants will throw out there, Zito? Lincecum? Bumgarner? I’m sure they will possible have Vogelsong lined up for game 2. I like the Giants winning the series in 7. I wasn’t too impressed with the Tigers sweeping the Yankees. The Yankees offense is completely different from the Giants so it will be interesting to see how they approach it. That and how the Tigers will manage Verlander in an NL park where he has to bat.[/quote]
Lol. Yeah, I wouldn’t mind seeing someone knock Verlander off the plate and onto his ass.

I’m not sure who would start Game One for the Giants. Zito could throw since the game is on Wednesday and will give him four full days of rest. They could go with Lincecum or Bumgarner I suppose, but I don’t know about those two. I heard a rumor that Bumgarner would make the Game Two start and that Lincecum gets moved back to the bullpen. That would make sense, especially if Zito starts Game 1.

I like keeping Lincecum in the bullpen. He seems to pitch better out of the stretch when he comes in as a reliever, mostly because he is warming up the entire time out of the stretch. Plus, he gets ready quick like a reliever even though he doesn’t have much experience doing it. If he starts, then Bumgarner goes into the bullpen and he can’t warm up quick. AND Lincecum seems capable of bouncing back from multiple relief efforts pretty well.

1044

Well wait a second now. Lincecum just headed to the bullpen so this could change everything. I guess if he throws more than an inning here it’ll be Zito, Bumgarner, Vogelsong and Cain. I would expect Vogelsong to take Bumgarner’s turn if it comes down to a Game 6 and then throw Cain on short rest if necessary for Game 7.

And I’ll say this: Dave Fucking Righetti doesn’t get NEARLY the credit he deserves as a pitching coach in this league. He’s been with the team for 12 years, longer than Bochy, and they have good pitching every year no matter what. Their bullpens have always been good no matter who the closer was and the work he’s done with the starters and with Buster Posey’s game-calling speaks for itself.

1045

I love it. Cain drilled Holliday right in the upper triceps with a 92mph fastball. That was DEFINITELY retaliation for that bullshit slide Holliday put on Scutaro. What a time to do it, too. Up by seven, all the momentum in Cain’s dugout and he drills him. Holliday can’t do shit but shut his mouth and take his medicine. He knew he was going to get hit at some point.

I remember when Prince Fielder did some bullshit, choreographed team celebration at home plate after he beat the Giants in late Spetember back in 2009 with a walk-off homerun. They didn’t face Fielder again that year, but the first time the Giants faced him in Spring Training the next year they drilled him right in the back with the first pitch. They’ve done the same to a couple other players whose names escape me now.

1046

Who’s the NLCS MVP? I’m going with Scutaro. I think he’s hitting something like .469 in the series. Sandoval or Vogelsong would be a close second.

1047

This is so fucking awesome.

1048

Jesus Christ, I think the crowd just started chanting TO-NY! TO-NY! after a leadoff walk from a St. Louis reliever in some bizarre mockery of Tony LaRussa’s penchant for making 8 pitching changes a game, while at the same time mocking former Giants catcher Mike Matheny by chanting his predecessor’s name after failing, so far at least, to defend his title.

Giants fans fucking kill me. That ballpark is the best place in the majors to watch a ballgame.

1049

Hey strungoutboy, I heard that the Padres are going to bring in the fences at Petco next week. They said they’re bringing in the left-center wall and the wall in straight-away right field. How exactly is that going to work out? What’s your opinion? I hope they just move them in a little bit. I think there is an added advantage in playing in a pitchers park and that is the fact that with less runs being scored in general, pitchers get used that much less than they would elsewhere, which can keep them fresh for down the stretch and/or the postseason. It allows the starters to go a little longer I would assume, and as a result the bullpen should stay fresher.

1050

Holy fuck, I’ve never seen them try to get a game in through this kind of rain. It’s coming down harder than it was in the NFC Championship Game at Candlestick Park last year.

1051

so glad the cardinals aren’t in the world series. Now I can actually watch these freaking games.

1052

Hey DB, you know more about baseball than I’ll ever know, so let me ask you a question. These guys were talking about who to pitch against Verlander. The Yankee fan said all you have to do is beat the other pitchers like how the Yankees lost to Cliff Lee twice but beat their other pitchers and won the WS.

So he said since Verlander is so dominant compared to the other Gs pitchers who are struggling (except Vogelsong), the Gs should throw out Lincecum who is playing badly against Verlander and pitch Vogelsong, Cain and Zito against the other Detroit pitchers.

It was pretty interesting how the other guys thought it was stupid and argued back and forth.

1053

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
The fact that you would post that you don’t need to see players play in order to understand their contributions tells me all I need to know about your grasp of the game of baseball. You don’t understand it AT ALL from an intangible aspect because you never played the game.[/quote]

lol i truly enjoy hearing you tell me this everytime any sort of argument breaks out in this thread.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

ALL SPORTS are about the intangibles! What don’t you understand about this?!?!?!? The Intangibles are why the U.S. beat the USSR in hockey, they’re why the Red Sox came back from a three-game deficit to beat the Yankees in 2004’s ALCS, they’re why the Niners were much better than expectations last year, they’re why the Giants and Cardinals defeated several “superior” teams on their way to the World Series title the last two years, they’re why WE PLAY THE GAME.[/quote]

I don’t know about the non-baseball examples but what you see in October has a lot to do with random chance. The best teams in baseball win roughly 60% of their games which means even if you’re really good you’re still losing 40% of the games you play. For that reason it should be no surprise that in a 5-7 game series, pretty much anything can happen. That’s why it’s not uncommon to see shit-bag players have excellent post-seasons.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Intangibles are why teams that are superior on paper end up getting beat in the playoffs all the time.[/quote]

Not at all.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The fact that the two teams with the two worst records of the ten playoff teams this year might end up in the World Series speaks volumes about intangibles. [/quote]

No, it speaks to the divisions they play in. The Tigers play in a division where the 2nd best team was the White Sox, a team that was in halfway rebuild mode at the beginning of the season.

The Giants play in a division with one mediocre team and a bunch of shitbags.

You don’t actually believe this non-sense do you?

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sports are played by human beings, people who are not infallible, people who are not perfect and people who respond to pressure situations in myriad ways. If you don’t understand the intangible aspect of sports, and if you don’t place extremely high value on them, then you don’t understand sports at all. Sports aren’t a fucking video game that gets programmed by a computer or something like that. The intangibles explain EVERYTHING that statistics cannot explain about the game and statistics don’t explain very much. [/quote]

I agree they are a factor, but far from a be all and end all.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Statistics only explain what has already happened, [/quote]

Yep and that’s mostly what I need to decide on an MVP

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

and to a much less accurate extent, what can be expected to happen in the future. [/quote]

It’s impossible to predict the future.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

They don’t explain causality at all. They don’t explain WHY something happened. Watching the game DOES explain that. [/quote]

Sure watching the game is important, but not for the explicit purpose of determining the MVP. Even though it’s most valuable player, I believe it should always go to the most productive - that’s how I define value.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The fact that your arguments are 95% numbers-based means that your arguments are 100% BULLSHIT! [/quote]

LOL

I seriously laughed out loud when i read this. Thanks for that.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

This is why I hate sabermetrics. They allow people like you who have never played a single inning of competitive baseball in their lives to think they’ve got the game figured out. [/quote]

Translation: Math is difficult

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

The fact is that a psychologist who has never even heard of baseball understands more about the game than you do. [/quote]

lol - What does this even mean?

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

I don’t even know why you’d bother ever coming back into this thread after an ignorant statement like that. What do you think baseball is, a computer program? Just punch the right numbers in, press “Enter” and voila! Everything you need to know about the game quantified right in front of you with absolute certainty. [/quote]

Sabermetrics is here to stay. Either get with it or get left behind.

1054

[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Put a fork in the Cardinals, they are done. No way they are coming back down six runs. Their pitching and defense has been garbage. Hopefully the World Series will be better than these two championship series. Even though the NL series went seven games, only two games were actually close.[/quote]

Agreed.

LDS was great, LCS has been a let down. Little entertainment value.

1055

Makes me wish I had TV for a week or two. The Tigers in the world series. The Giants comeback will either make them intimidating for having overcome the odds or tired for having played so much and then playing a rested Detroit team. Honestly I’m thinking in terms of hockey. I don’t know baseball that well.

1056

[quote]fnf wrote:
Hey DB, you know more about baseball than I’ll ever know, so let me ask you a question. These guys were talking about who to pitch against Verlander. The Yankee fan said all you have to do is beat the other pitchers like how the Yankees lost to Cliff Lee twice but beat their other pitchers and won the WS.

So he said since Verlander is so dominant compared to the other Gs pitchers who are struggling (except Vogelsong), the Gs should throw out Lincecum who is playing badly against Verlander and pitch Vogelsong, Cain and Zito against the other Detroit pitchers.

It was pretty interesting how the other guys thought it was stupid and argued back and forth.[/quote]
Well since Vogelsong pitched yesterday and Cain pitched today, they can’t match up against Verlander anyways.

1057

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Makes me wish I had TV for a week or two. The Tigers in the world series. The Giants comeback will either make them intimidating for having overcome the odds or tired for having played so much and then playing a rested Detroit team. Honestly I’m thinking in terms of hockey. I don’t know baseball that well.[/quote]
The extra rest can go either way for the Tigers. Sometimes if a team is on fire, a longer layoff can take away the hot streak. It can give the pitchers extra rest and line up their starters the way they want to throw them.

1058

[quote]fnf wrote:
Hey DB, you know more about baseball than I’ll ever know, so let me ask you a question. These guys were talking about who to pitch against Verlander. The Yankee fan said all you have to do is beat the other pitchers like how the Yankees lost to Cliff Lee twice but beat their other pitchers and won the WS.

So he said since Verlander is so dominant compared to the other Gs pitchers who are struggling (except Vogelsong), the Gs should throw out Lincecum who is playing badly against Verlander and pitch Vogelsong, Cain and Zito against the other Detroit pitchers.

It was pretty interesting how the other guys thought it was stupid and argued back and forth.[/quote]
That’s a pretty stupid way to look at things and if that’s indicative of the Yankees’ way of thinking then no wonder they got eliminated in 4.

No team that’s good enough to get to the Series goes into a game against ANY pitcher with a defeatist attitude like that. They don’t go in assuming they’ll lose because it’s Verlander. Like Scutaro said when asked how he feels about facing one of the best pitchers in the game in Game 1, he has to go up against one of the best teams in the game.

Verlander may be the best pitcher in the AL, but the Giants are the best team in the NL, so I don’t think they’ll look at things like that at all.

Keep in mind, the Yankees may not have beat Cliff Lee but still won the Series, but when the Giants won it the next year they did what everyone thought was impossible and tacked a 7-spot on him en route to a Game One blowout. They also beat Halladay twice after everyone said that couldn’t be done either. Verlander is hardly invincible and the team with the best chance against him is the best team. The Giants are the best team he’s faced all year and I think they’ll put several on the board against him in Game One. It’s baseball, anything can happen and the momentum is all on the Giants’ side.

1059

And when Cody Ross hit two homeruns off Halladay in a single game, that was pure intangibles bro.

1060

Verlander will be throwing on 7 days’ rest, Scherzer will follow on 6 days’ rest, Sanchez will throw Game 3 on 12 days’ rest and Fister throws Game 4 on 14 days’ rest.

Anything think this much time off could prove problematic? I don’t think it’ll me much of an issue at all with Verlander and Scherzer, but I won’t be surprised to see Sanchez and Fister come out looking really rusty.