Giants claiming Heath Bell off of waivers. Bell already stated he wants to come back to San Diego next year. I personally don’t think a deal will be worked out, but it would be funny to get a few prospects out of it and then end up resigning Bell next year.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
Giants claiming Heath Bell off of waivers. Bell already stated he wants to come back to San Diego next year. I personally don’t think a deal will be worked out, but it would be funny to get a few prospects out of it and then end up resigning Bell next year.[/quote]
There’s no way the Giants work out a deal, they simply claimed him to block Arizona.
Barry Bonds was at the Giants game last night, all smiles, received tons of praise, handshakes, and hugs through out the night, from both executives and fans alike.
He was on his feet rooting for Beltran after he hit his first home run as a Giant. Great to see the home run king cheering in the house that he built.
Hopefully last night was a turning point for this squad. With the Astros coming up, now is a great time to start mashing.
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Barry Bonds was at the Giants game last night, all smiles, received tons of praise, handshakes, and hugs through out the night, from both executives and fans alike.
He was on his feet rooting for Beltran after he hit his first home run as a Giant. Great to see the home run king cheering in the house that he built.
Hopefully last night was a turning point for this squad. With the Astros coming up, now is a great time to start mashing.[/quote]
I have nothing against the Giants, but they still have a bad offense. One of the runs they scored was on a lucky ground ball that chopped over everyones head. With that said, Lincecum pitched a great game.
Also, that’s kind of lame it was only a two game series. The Pads had Monday off, played two days in a row, and then have today off. That is some odd scheduling.
Wow, the Yankees put on a hitting clinic today. They had three grand slams.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
Barry Bonds was at the Giants game last night, all smiles, received tons of praise, handshakes, and hugs through out the night, from both executives and fans alike.
He was on his feet rooting for Beltran after he hit his first home run as a Giant. Great to see the home run king cheering in the house that he built.
Hopefully last night was a turning point for this squad. With the Astros coming up, now is a great time to start mashing.[/quote]
I have nothing against the Giants, but they still have a bad offense. One of the runs they scored was on a lucky ground ball that chopped over everyones head. With that said, Lincecum pitched a great game.
Also, that’s kind of lame it was only a two game series. The Pads had Monday off, played two days in a row, and then have today off. That is some odd scheduling.[/quote]
I agree, our offense is horrific right now. I’d rather have some of the lineups that the little league world series teams are rocking.
Lincecum had to drive in the winning run for himself last night. That just about sums it up…
Anyone else find it odd Joey Votto has received zero MVP buzz even though he is basically having a good as season as last year?
Joey Votto is arguably still the best hitter the NL.
The problem is the Reds aren’t doing as well as they did last year. I can see it going to Ryan Braun or Prince Fielder since the Brewers are having a great year. Kemp is up there too.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
The problem is the Reds aren’t doing as well as they did last year. I can see it going to Ryan Braun or Prince Fielder since the Brewers are having a great year. Kemp is up there too.[/quote]
I agree but people are talking about Kemp. I think Kemp actually has a legit chance of taking the NL MVP whereas Votta has no chance IMO
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Anyone else find it odd Joey Votto has received zero MVP buzz even though he is basically having a good as season as last year?[/quote]
He’s behind last year’s pace for HR’s and RBI’s, his runs are down as well and he isn’t carrying the offense of a first place team. He’s getting zero MVP buzz because he isn’t having the sort of season that warrants such attention this year.
Fielder, Braun, Kemp and Tulowitzki are all having better all-around seasons than Votto is right now. Carlos Gonzalez would have better numbers than Votto at this point if he hadn’t missed some time this year, and their numbers are practically identical as it is.
To me, Matt Kemp is having by FAR a better year than Votto is. He’s playing Gold Glove caliber defense at a much tougher position to play than 1st base. He has more HR’s and RBI’s than Votto despite playing in a pitcher’s park instead of one of the biggest jokes of a ballpark in the entire majors. His superior RBI #'s and the fact that he’s only scored 6 less runs despite playing in a significantly less-advantageous park AND a much worse offense speaks volumes.
Fielder is also having a much better year, as is Braun. Fielder has more HR’s and much more RBI’s as well, and Braun leads Votto in virtually all offensive categories, including HR’s, RBI’s, runs, avg, and SB’s. Their team is also much better than Votto’s. Tulowitzki has more HR’s and RBI’s also, is batting above .300 (.305 to Votto’s .324) and is arguably the best defensive player at the hardest position to play (and most important) other than catcher. Gonzalez has only a few less runs, hr’s and rbi’s, but also has twice the steals, plays stellar defense, throws out a lot of runners and has done all this in about 20 games worth of plate appearances less than Votto.
Votto is having a great year, but it pales in comparison to a couple other, more deserving MVP candidates and it simply isn’t going to be as good a year as last.
I think there’s a good chance Bautista wins the AL MVP and he’s on a 4th place team. Of course there are players who are having equally as good years as Votto in the NL while no one is close to doing what Bautista is in the AL.
You could arguably give the NL MVP to Votto, Fielder, Kemp, Upton or Braun and you wouldn’t get any complaints from me.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Anyone else find it odd Joey Votto has received zero MVP buzz even though he is basically having a good as season as last year?[/quote]
He’s behind last year’s pace for HR’s and RBI’s, his runs are down as well and he isn’t carrying the offense of a first place team. He’s getting zero MVP buzz because he isn’t having the sort of season that warrants such attention this year.
Fielder, Braun, Kemp and Tulowitzki are all having better all-around seasons than Votto is right now. Carlos Gonzalez would have better numbers than Votto at this point if he hadn’t missed some time this year, and their numbers are practically identical as it is.
To me, Matt Kemp is having by FAR a better year than Votto is. He’s playing Gold Glove caliber defense at a much tougher position to play than 1st base. He has more HR’s and RBI’s than Votto despite playing in a pitcher’s park instead of one of the biggest jokes of a ballpark in the entire majors. His superior RBI #'s and the fact that he’s only scored 6 less runs despite playing in a significantly less-advantageous park AND a much worse offense speaks volumes.
Fielder is also having a much better year, as is Braun. Fielder has more HR’s and much more RBI’s as well, and Braun leads Votto in virtually all offensive categories, including HR’s, RBI’s, runs, avg, and SB’s. Their team is also much better than Votto’s. Tulowitzki has more HR’s and RBI’s also, is batting above .300 (.305 to Votto’s .324) and is arguably the best defensive player at the hardest position to play (and most important) other than catcher. Gonzalez has only a few less runs, hr’s and rbi’s, but also has twice the steals, plays stellar defense, throws out a lot of runners and has done all this in about 20 games worth of plate appearances less than Votto.
Votto is having a great year, but it pales in comparison to a couple other, more deserving MVP candidates and it simply isn’t going to be as good a year as last.[/quote]
His RBI and HR totals are down because his walk rate has gone through the roof. He’s already walked 94 times which is 3 more than he’s had ALL SEASON last year. I’m not a big believer in RBI anyway since it’s largely a product of where you hit in the lineup.
He’s also leading the league in .OPS
As far as playing a harder position I think that’s a bullshit argument, the only way you should discount a player is he DH. I think you should compare his defense to other 1st basemen in the league, and if you do that he’s pretty good.
I’m not saying he’s the only deserving candidate or the most deserving, but he isn’t receiving any coverage and he’s easily a top 3 choice IMO
[quote]therajraj wrote:
no one is close to doing what Bautista is in the AL.
[/quote]
Bautista:
HR-37, Runs-93, RBI’s-82, Avg-.317, OPS-1.109, avg w/RISP-.241, SB’s-6, FPCT-.975
Granderson:
HR-36, Runs-119, RBI’s-103, Avg-.278, OPS-.969, avg w/RISP-.248, SB’s-24, FPCT-.990
Gonzalez:
Hr-23, Runs-89, RBI’s-102, Avg-.348, OPS-.975, avg w/RISP-.342, SB’s-1, FPCT-.997
Ellsbury:
Hr-23, Runs-93, RBI’s-81, Avg-.312, OPS-.885, avg w/RISP-.351, SB’s-35, FPCT-1.000
Bautista isn’t even the best hitter or overall player in the AL. These are the MVP canidates for the AL right here. Bautista is probably the best home run hitter of them all but after that, based on these numbers here, I’m having a hard time deciphering what else it is that Bautista does better than any of these other candidates. Gonzalez is clearly the better overall hitter and the better defender and Ellsbury is clearly the better overall player, given his superior base-running skills and defensive abilities. Both are miles ahead of Bautista in terms of ability to hit with runners in scoring position.
Granderson’s numbers may be a little inflated due to playing in the midst of a great lineup, but really, ALL of the offenses these guys play on are really good lineups top to bottom and they ALL play in obvious hitter’s parks. Granderson deserves more credit than he normally gets when entering these conversations. He never bats 3rd or 4th for the most part but he still has managed to drive in and score an unGodly amount of runs. His RBI total is especially impressive considering that he leads the Yankees in this category despite not being a typical middle of the lineup hitter.
Bautista is having another monster year, no doubt. But the fact remains that he is still only the 4th best player in the AL right now. The MVP in the AL right now looks like either Ellsbury or Gonzalez, maybe Granderson, and Bautista distantly behind them all. It shouldn’t be discounted either that Bautista plays in relative obscurity whereas the others all play in a huge market where the pressure to perform at an MVP level is placed on their shoulders every day, especially Gonzalez. Bautista doesn’t play with anywhere this type of daily pressure.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Anyone else find it odd Joey Votto has received zero MVP buzz even though he is basically having a good as season as last year?[/quote]
He’s behind last year’s pace for HR’s and RBI’s, his runs are down as well and he isn’t carrying the offense of a first place team. He’s getting zero MVP buzz because he isn’t having the sort of season that warrants such attention this year.
Fielder, Braun, Kemp and Tulowitzki are all having better all-around seasons than Votto is right now. Carlos Gonzalez would have better numbers than Votto at this point if he hadn’t missed some time this year, and their numbers are practically identical as it is.
To me, Matt Kemp is having by FAR a better year than Votto is. He’s playing Gold Glove caliber defense at a much tougher position to play than 1st base. He has more HR’s and RBI’s than Votto despite playing in a pitcher’s park instead of one of the biggest jokes of a ballpark in the entire majors. His superior RBI #'s and the fact that he’s only scored 6 less runs despite playing in a significantly less-advantageous park AND a much worse offense speaks volumes.
Fielder is also having a much better year, as is Braun. Fielder has more HR’s and much more RBI’s as well, and Braun leads Votto in virtually all offensive categories, including HR’s, RBI’s, runs, avg, and SB’s. Their team is also much better than Votto’s. Tulowitzki has more HR’s and RBI’s also, is batting above .300 (.305 to Votto’s .324) and is arguably the best defensive player at the hardest position to play (and most important) other than catcher. Gonzalez has only a few less runs, hr’s and rbi’s, but also has twice the steals, plays stellar defense, throws out a lot of runners and has done all this in about 20 games worth of plate appearances less than Votto.
Votto is having a great year, but it pales in comparison to a couple other, more deserving MVP candidates and it simply isn’t going to be as good a year as last.[/quote]
His RBI and HR totals are down because his walk rate has gone through the roof. He’s already walked 94 times which is 3 more than he’s had ALL SEASON last year. I’m not a big believer in RBI anyway since it’s largely a product of where you hit in the lineup.
He’s also leading the league in .OPS
As far as playing a harder position I think that’s a bullshit argument, the only way you should discount a player is he DH. I think you should compare his defense to other 1st basemen in the league, and if you do that he’s pretty good.
I’m not saying he’s the only deserving candidate or the most deserving, but he isn’t receiving any coverage and he’s easily a top 3 choice IMO[/quote]
The harder position argument isn’t bullshit at all. Play the game for once and you’ll see what I mean. You’re talking about him as an MVP candidate, so his defensive abilities only bear comparison to the other candidates. We aren’t arguing about who deserves the Gold Glove at his position, but if we were he’d be deserving of that. As it is, players should get credit when they are able to do something well that is harder for someone else to do.
SS is harder to play than 1B, and a little more important. Personally, I feel 1b is an underrated position in terms of its importance to the team, but that’s neither here nor there. The point is that it is NOT harder or more important than SS, a position that Tulowitzki plays better than anyone else in the league in my opinion. The same can and should be said for CF and Matt Kemp.
I’m not arguing that he isn’t having a great year, and one of the better years in the league. But he simply isn’t having the type of season that compares that favorably to Kemp or Braun or possibly even Fielder. He may be having an MVP-type year, but not an MVP year.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
no one is close to doing what Bautista is in the AL.
[/quote]
Bautista:
HR-37, Runs-93, RBI’s-82, Avg-.317, OPS-1.109, avg w/RISP-.241, SB’s-6, FPCT-.975
Granderson:
HR-36, Runs-119, RBI’s-103, Avg-.278, OPS-.969, avg w/RISP-.248, SB’s-24, FPCT-.990
Gonzalez:
Hr-23, Runs-89, RBI’s-102, Avg-.348, OPS-.975, avg w/RISP-.342, SB’s-1, FPCT-.997
Ellsbury:
Hr-23, Runs-93, RBI’s-81, Avg-.312, OPS-.885, avg w/RISP-.351, SB’s-35, FPCT-1.000
Bautista isn’t even the best hitter or overall player in the AL. These are the MVP canidates for the AL right here. Bautista is probably the best home run hitter of them all but after that, based on these numbers here, I’m having a hard time deciphering what else it is that Bautista does better than any of these other candidates. Gonzalez is clearly the better overall hitter and the better defender and Ellsbury is clearly the better overall player, given his superior base-running skills and defensive abilities. Both are miles ahead of Bautista in terms of ability to hit with runners in scoring position.
Granderson’s numbers may be a little inflated due to playing in the midst of a great lineup, but really, ALL of the offenses these guys play on are really good lineups top to bottom and they ALL play in obvious hitter’s parks. Granderson deserves more credit than he normally gets when entering these conversations. He never bats 3rd or 4th for the most part but he still has managed to drive in and score an unGodly amount of runs. His RBI total is especially impressive considering that he leads the Yankees in this category despite not being a typical middle of the lineup hitter.
Bautista is having another monster year, no doubt. But the fact remains that he is still only the 4th best player in the AL right now. The MVP in the AL right now looks like either Ellsbury or Gonzalez, maybe Granderson, and Bautista distantly behind them all. It shouldn’t be discounted either that Bautista plays in relative obscurity whereas the others all play in a huge market where the pressure to perform at an MVP level is placed on their shoulders every day, especially Gonzalez. Bautista doesn’t play with anywhere this type of daily pressure.[/quote]
First off Bautista leads the league in Wins Above Replacement (7.7), on-base percentage (.456), slugging average (.645), on-base plus slugging (1.101), home runs (37), bases on balls (103), runs created (124), intentional walks (18) and at-bats per home run (11.1). All this while playing adequate defense across 2 different positions.
As I said before RBI is mostly a bullshit stat. For the first half of the season Jose Bautista had 2 TERRIBLE hitters in front of him in Rajai Davis and Corey Patterson. In the 2nd half that was improved but the guy batting behind him Adam Lind has been awful. Lind’s batting average has dropped 50 points since the all star break.
Another thing, why are you looking at runs scored? Another meaningless stat. Context-driven statistics such as RBIs and runs scored have been denigrated because they depend on the team. Curtis Granderson’s Yankees have scored 680 runs this season, Adrian Gonzalez’s Red Sox have scored 681 runs. The Blue Jays have scored only 599 runs. Bautista’s RBI and runs scored totals have been affected by his team. The fact that the Blue Jays hitters have failed to support him as efficiently as the Yankees hitters have supported Granderson and the Red Sox batters have supported Gonzalez must not penalize Bautista.
I think picking A-Gon or Granderson as MVP would simply be giving the award to the best player on one of the best teams rather than the best overall player.
I honestly believe Jose Bautista would have matched his total from last year if Adam Lind’s offensive game didn’t fall off the map in the 2nd half. Bautista was on pace to hit 60 HRs at the All-Star break, and now is going to hit 45-46.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
no one is close to doing what Bautista is in the AL.
[/quote]
Bautista:
HR-37, Runs-93, RBI’s-82, Avg-.317, OPS-1.109, avg w/RISP-.241, SB’s-6, FPCT-.975
Granderson:
HR-36, Runs-119, RBI’s-103, Avg-.278, OPS-.969, avg w/RISP-.248, SB’s-24, FPCT-.990
Gonzalez:
Hr-23, Runs-89, RBI’s-102, Avg-.348, OPS-.975, avg w/RISP-.342, SB’s-1, FPCT-.997
Ellsbury:
Hr-23, Runs-93, RBI’s-81, Avg-.312, OPS-.885, avg w/RISP-.351, SB’s-35, FPCT-1.000
Bautista isn’t even the best hitter or overall player in the AL. These are the MVP canidates for the AL right here. Bautista is probably the best home run hitter of them all but after that, based on these numbers here, I’m having a hard time deciphering what else it is that Bautista does better than any of these other candidates. Gonzalez is clearly the better overall hitter and the better defender and Ellsbury is clearly the better overall player, given his superior base-running skills and defensive abilities. Both are miles ahead of Bautista in terms of ability to hit with runners in scoring position.
Granderson’s numbers may be a little inflated due to playing in the midst of a great lineup, but really, ALL of the offenses these guys play on are really good lineups top to bottom and they ALL play in obvious hitter’s parks. Granderson deserves more credit than he normally gets when entering these conversations. He never bats 3rd or 4th for the most part but he still has managed to drive in and score an unGodly amount of runs. His RBI total is especially impressive considering that he leads the Yankees in this category despite not being a typical middle of the lineup hitter.
Bautista is having another monster year, no doubt. But the fact remains that he is still only the 4th best player in the AL right now. The MVP in the AL right now looks like either Ellsbury or Gonzalez, maybe Granderson, and Bautista distantly behind them all. It shouldn’t be discounted either that Bautista plays in relative obscurity whereas the others all play in a huge market where the pressure to perform at an MVP level is placed on their shoulders every day, especially Gonzalez. Bautista doesn’t play with anywhere this type of daily pressure.[/quote]
First off Bautista leads the league in Wins Above Replacement (7.7), on-base percentage (.456), slugging average (.645), on-base plus slugging (1.101), home runs (37), bases on balls (103), runs created (124), intentional walks (18) and at-bats per home run (11.1). All this while playing adequate defense across 2 different positions.
As I said before RBI is mostly a bullshit stat. For the first half of the season Jose Bautista had 2 TERRIBLE hitters in front of him in Rajai Davis and Corey Patterson. In the 2nd half that was improved but the guy batting behind him Adam Lind has been awful. Lind’s batting average has dropped 50 points since the all star break.
Another thing, why are you looking at runs scored? Another meaningless stat. Context-driven statistics such as RBIs and runs scored have been denigrated because they depend on the team. Curtis Granderson’s Yankees have scored 680 runs this season, Adrian Gonzalez’s Red Sox have scored 681 runs. The Blue Jays have scored only 599 runs. Bautista’s RBI and runs scored totals have been affected by his team. The fact that the Blue Jays hitters have failed to support him as efficiently as the Yankees hitters have supported Granderson and the Red Sox batters have supported Gonzalez must not penalize Bautista.
I think picking A-Gon or Granderson as MVP would simply be giving the award to the best player on one of the best teams rather than the best overall player.
[/quote]
You want to get into sabremetrics now, eh? Well, let me tell you why some of THEM are bullshit stats. First of all, this is sports, not theoretical philosophy. You can sit here and say that runs and rbi’s are largely a product of who hits in front of who and what team plays where or whatever, but you can never take away from the fact that Gonzalez HAS driven in more runs than Bautista and that Granderson HAS scored more runs. We could sit here and argue what is a better indicator of success, production or the opportunities for production (or lack thereof), but sports doesn’t thrive on opportunities, they thrive on production. The team that had the most leads throughout the course of the season doesn’t win it all; the team with the most wins does.
Back to sabremetrics. Sabremetrics don’t take into account the way game is played given certain situations. They’re the invention of a few pencil-pushing fags who never played the game and devised some bizarre system of statistics so that they could understand the game on the only terms they know how to understand it. Sabremetrics don’t take into account what happens when say, Ellsbury gets on base. They don’t take into account the way the simple THREAT of the steal can alter the dynamics of an inning. They also don’t take into account things like the emotions of the game. A sabremetrician will tell you that you should never steal, bat your best hitter 2nd and leave the suicide squeeze at home with the Little Leaguers.
But someone who plays the game will tell you that the POSSIBILITY that a steal attempt will occur can drastically change a pitcher’s mindset and focus of attention. Someone who plays the game knows that it’s almost a relief to face the team’s best hitter when only one runner is on base, especially when that runner is on 1st and a groundball represents a double-play, which is the case more often when batting 2nd than 3rd or 4th. And anyone who has played the game and been on the receiving end of one will tell you that having the suicide squeeze properly executed against you late in a tight ballgame is FAR more demoralizing and harder to recover from, mentally, than a base hit or a sac fly.
Aside from all that, the stats you cite for Bautista are meaningless. First of all, WAR isn’t even a standardized statistic. He may lead in that category from one statistician’s perspective and not lead in another. Also, this is as much an indictment of the overall level of depth in the minors at Bautista’s primary position as it is a testament to his abilities. All WAR does is tell me that there aren’t as many good left fielders in the minors to replace a top-flight left fielder in the bigs as there are 1Bmen or CF’s. And why would there be? Most prospects play a more important position than left field and get moved elsewhere later on.
Bautista’s walk totals are meaningless as well. He walks more for many different reasons and it doesn’t really matter what they are. What matters is that when he comes to the plate with runners on base, he doesn’t hit nearly as well and when he does get on base via walk, he doesn’t have the base-running abilities to put himself in position to score more runs than he currently does. This is all we know for sure. We don’t know that Bautista would do any better if he played for the Red Sox at all. In fact, he might even do worse. He hits like shit with runners on base and in Boston he’d hit with runners on base much more often, meaning that if that were the case he might hit worse overall and not better. My point is that all that really matters when you get right down to it is what HAS happened, not what MIGHT happen IF this or that happened. Games are won with results, not hypotheses, and Bautista simply doesn’t have the results that Granderson, Ellsbury and Gonzalez have.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
no one is close to doing what Bautista is in the AL.
[/quote]
Bautista:
HR-37, Runs-93, RBI’s-82, Avg-.317, OPS-1.109, avg w/RISP-.241, SB’s-6, FPCT-.975
Granderson:
HR-36, Runs-119, RBI’s-103, Avg-.278, OPS-.969, avg w/RISP-.248, SB’s-24, FPCT-.990
Gonzalez:
Hr-23, Runs-89, RBI’s-102, Avg-.348, OPS-.975, avg w/RISP-.342, SB’s-1, FPCT-.997
Ellsbury:
Hr-23, Runs-93, RBI’s-81, Avg-.312, OPS-.885, avg w/RISP-.351, SB’s-35, FPCT-1.000
Bautista isn’t even the best hitter or overall player in the AL. These are the MVP canidates for the AL right here. Bautista is probably the best home run hitter of them all but after that, based on these numbers here, I’m having a hard time deciphering what else it is that Bautista does better than any of these other candidates. Gonzalez is clearly the better overall hitter and the better defender and Ellsbury is clearly the better overall player, given his superior base-running skills and defensive abilities. Both are miles ahead of Bautista in terms of ability to hit with runners in scoring position.
Granderson’s numbers may be a little inflated due to playing in the midst of a great lineup, but really, ALL of the offenses these guys play on are really good lineups top to bottom and they ALL play in obvious hitter’s parks. Granderson deserves more credit than he normally gets when entering these conversations. He never bats 3rd or 4th for the most part but he still has managed to drive in and score an unGodly amount of runs. His RBI total is especially impressive considering that he leads the Yankees in this category despite not being a typical middle of the lineup hitter.
Bautista is having another monster year, no doubt. But the fact remains that he is still only the 4th best player in the AL right now. The MVP in the AL right now looks like either Ellsbury or Gonzalez, maybe Granderson, and Bautista distantly behind them all. It shouldn’t be discounted either that Bautista plays in relative obscurity whereas the others all play in a huge market where the pressure to perform at an MVP level is placed on their shoulders every day, especially Gonzalez. Bautista doesn’t play with anywhere this type of daily pressure.[/quote]
First off Bautista leads the league in Wins Above Replacement (7.7), on-base percentage (.456), slugging average (.645), on-base plus slugging (1.101), home runs (37), bases on balls (103), runs created (124), intentional walks (18) and at-bats per home run (11.1). All this while playing adequate defense across 2 different positions.
As I said before RBI is mostly a bullshit stat. For the first half of the season Jose Bautista had 2 TERRIBLE hitters in front of him in Rajai Davis and Corey Patterson. In the 2nd half that was improved but the guy batting behind him Adam Lind has been awful. Lind’s batting average has dropped 50 points since the all star break.
Another thing, why are you looking at runs scored? Another meaningless stat. Context-driven statistics such as RBIs and runs scored have been denigrated because they depend on the team. Curtis Granderson’s Yankees have scored 680 runs this season, Adrian Gonzalez’s Red Sox have scored 681 runs. The Blue Jays have scored only 599 runs. Bautista’s RBI and runs scored totals have been affected by his team. The fact that the Blue Jays hitters have failed to support him as efficiently as the Yankees hitters have supported Granderson and the Red Sox batters have supported Gonzalez must not penalize Bautista.
I think picking A-Gon or Granderson as MVP would simply be giving the award to the best player on one of the best teams rather than the best overall player.
[/quote]
You want to get into sabremetrics now, eh? Well, let me tell you why some of THEM are bullshit stats. First of all, this is sports, not theoretical philosophy. You can sit here and say that runs and rbi’s are largely a product of who hits in front of who and what team plays where or whatever, but you can never take away from the fact that Gonzalez HAS driven in more runs than Bautista and that Granderson HAS scored more runs. We could sit here and argue what is a better indicator of success, production or the opportunities for production (or lack thereof), but sports doesn’t thrive on opportunities, they thrive on production. The team that had the most leads throughout the course of the season doesn’t win it all; the team with the most wins does.
Back to sabremetrics. Sabremetrics don’t take into account the way game is played given certain situations. They’re the invention of a few pencil-pushing fags who never played the game and devised some bizarre system of statistics so that they could understand the game on the only terms they know how to understand it. Sabremetrics don’t take into account what happens when say, Ellsbury gets on base. They don’t take into account the way the simple THREAT of the steal can alter the dynamics of an inning. They also don’t take into account things like the emotions of the game. A sabremetrician will tell you that you should never steal, bat your best hitter 2nd and leave the suicide squeeze at home with the Little Leaguers.
But someone who plays the game will tell you that the POSSIBILITY that a steal attempt will occur can drastically change a pitcher’s mindset and focus of attention. Someone who plays the game knows that it’s almost a relief to face the team’s best hitter when only one runner is on base, especially when that runner is on 1st and a groundball represents a double-play, which is the case more often when batting 2nd than 3rd or 4th. And anyone who has played the game and been on the receiving end of one will tell you that having the suicide squeeze properly executed against you late in a tight ballgame is FAR more demoralizing and harder to recover from, mentally, than a base hit or a sac fly.
Aside from all that, the stats you cite for Bautista are meaningless. First of all, WAR isn’t even a standardized statistic. He may lead in that category from one statistician’s perspective and not lead in another. Also, this is as much an indictment of the overall level of depth in the minors at Bautista’s primary position as it is a testament to his abilities. All WAR does is tell me that there aren’t as many good left fielders in the minors to replace a top-flight left fielder in the bigs as there are 1Bmen or CF’s. And why would there be? Most prospects play a more important position than left field and get moved elsewhere later on.
Bautista’s walk totals are meaningless as well. He walks more for many different reasons and it doesn’t really matter what they are. What matters is that when he comes to the plate with runners on base, he doesn’t hit nearly as well and when he does get on base via walk, he doesn’t have the base-running abilities to put himself in position to score more runs than he currently does. This is all we know for sure. We don’t know that Bautista would do any better if he played for the Red Sox at all. In fact, he might even do worse. He hits like shit with runners on base and in Boston he’d hit with runners on base much more often, meaning that if that were the case he might hit worse overall and not better. My point is that all that really matters when you get right down to it is what HAS happened, not what MIGHT happen IF this or that happened. Games are won with results, not hypotheses, and Bautista simply doesn’t have the results that Granderson, Ellsbury and Gonzalez have.
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A few things:
I agree that RISP is a genuine knock on Bautista but the rest of what you wrote is garbage. Check any WAR you want, they all rank Bautista as #1. There is no all encompassing stat that covers everything, but certain ones are better indicators than others. Also he doesn’t play LF he plays RF and 3rd base.
You under value walks. Half the time when Bautista comes to the plate with RISP the pitcher basically gives him the intentional-unintentioinal walk to face the weaker hitter behind him. He doesn’t even get a CHANCE to hit. BB rate is a big indicator IMO.
Have you ever seen Bautista run the bases? If you have you’d know he’s great at going 1st to 3rd.
I know you like to rely on bullshit stats like FPCT, but Granderon’s defense hasn’t been good this year. Not horrible, but definitely not good.
In the end if you care about shit like RBI, Runs scored, FPCT and think WAR is bullshit then we really have nothing talk about here. You may understand the nuances of the game better than us since you’ve played, but you clearly cannot analyze and interpret baseball statistics very well.
The AL MVP will go to someone from the Red Sox or Yankees. A-Gon just got hot again so I think he is the front runner right now. I would say Granderson at the moment, but A-Gons average is a lot higher than his. I also think he is more valuable to his team than Granderson is.