[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, you’re fortunate. Though you may know a great many religious folks, you’re still free to feel as if your existence is completely futile.[/quote]
Conjuring straw men again I see.
You’re very good at it.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
You view yourself, your very existence, as futile.[/quote]
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
[quote]ron22 wrote:
Another misconception I’ve heard/noticed is that science and Christianity can’t get along. The farther along I am into getting my MD has only helped to solidify my faith.
There’s just so much going on in such intricate and perfect order that it’s hard for me to think that life happend by chance. I love this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: “All I have seen teaches me to trust the creator for all I have not seen.”[/quote]
And Adam made Eve from a rib.
Yeah Right… Makes perfect sense to me now!!
A dead man, somehow came to life after a couple of days. WOW dude!! back in the day! they had the best revival system ever!!
uhu… sure…
Why do people grow tumors? Why are there congenital enzyme deficiencies and many many other diseases when “the omnipotent omniscient skydaddy” created us?
Why didn’t “The LORRRRDDA” make our immunesystem better if he KNEW IN ADVANCE that AIDS would “fuck” us? Why did he create that virus?
Why did he create HOMOSEEEEXXUUUAAALllIYAH???
I am insulted. I am a medical student too, and I an insulted that such superstitious stupidass people can do the same. Now I don’t feel very intelligent anymore. ;)[/quote]
God never created these things. It was never his intentions for these things to exist. They came into the world after we failed to keep a simple command. When death entered the world, so did disease, and imperfection. Its our fault, not God’s.
But yes, go ahead and make fun of me somehow. That tends to be the kind of response anti “religious”, mainly anti Christians, seem to give.
Besides, all of those things serve as tests of faith.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, you’re fortunate. Though you may know a great many religious folks, you’re still free to feel as if your existence is completely futile.[/quote]
Conjuring straw men again I see.
You’re very good at it.[/quote]
How is basically saying he’s entitled to his opinion a strawman? You doing ok lately?
As for misconceptions? Here’s one even some of the heathen will like. =] The idea that Jesus of Nazareth came to Earth to promote a socialist secular government. A damnable lie promoted by despicable politicians from the seats of power and pagan false teachers from the pulpits of deception in churches the world over.
Watching these lowlifes take the name of Christ to foment their big government nanny state spending program makes my blood boil.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, you’re fortunate. Though you may know a great many religious folks, you’re still free to feel as if your existence is completely futile.[/quote]
Conjuring straw men again I see.
You’re very good at it.[/quote]
How is basically saying he’s entitled to his opinion a strawman? You doing ok lately?[/quote]
When you start to make up things about what other people think about existence, you basically fail. The spin routine, trying to make everyone believe atheists are inherently immoral/nihilistic/suicidal/whatever doesn’t cut it.
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
[quote]ron22 wrote:
Another misconception I’ve heard/noticed is that science and Christianity can’t get along. The farther along I am into getting my MD has only helped to solidify my faith.
There’s just so much going on in such intricate and perfect order that it’s hard for me to think that life happend by chance. I love this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: “All I have seen teaches me to trust the creator for all I have not seen.”[/quote]
And Adam made Eve from a rib.
Yeah Right… Makes perfect sense to me now!!
A dead man, somehow came to life after a couple of days. WOW dude!! back in the day! they had the best revival system ever!!
uhu… sure…
Why do people grow tumors? Why are there congenital enzyme deficiencies and many many other diseases when “the omnipotent omniscient skydaddy” created us?
Why didn’t “The LORRRRDDA” make our immunesystem better if he KNEW IN ADVANCE that AIDS would “fuck” us? Why did he create that virus?
Why did he create HOMOSEEEEXXUUUAAALllIYAH???
I am insulted. I am a medical student too, and I an insulted that such superstitious stupidass people can do the same. Now I don’t feel very intelligent anymore. ;)[/quote]
God never created these things. It was never his intentions for these things to exist. They came into the world after we failed to keep a simple command. When death entered the world, so did disease, and imperfection. Its our fault, not God’s.
But yes, go ahead and make fun of me somehow. That tends to be the kind of response anti “religious”, mainly anti Christians, seem to give.
[/quote]
You say: God is not omnipotent and not omniscient. So he can’t create a stone that is so big he can’t lift it. Even if he could, he wouldn’t be able to lift the stone.
So god must be maximally great. He needs to operate within the borders of logic.
But you know, nobody can really tell if god really exsists. There is simply not enough evidence for or against a god. Let me get this clear.
However, “holy books” are clearly the words of men, not of god.
This is the last post i will (hopefully ever make) about religion because I don’t enjoy debating with religious people.
It somehow gets me hopping mad to see these people make these claims that are to me not logical.
Please go on with your lives, do whatever you want, believe whatever you want, but don’t get in the government.
The christian party in Holland even wants to ban shops opening on sunday because,… well the obvious religious reason…
[quote]ron22 wrote:
It’s ok. You probably are way more intelligent than me anyway…being from Holland and all…[/quote]
Intelligence is the wrong word. I shouldn’t have used it. I stand corrected.
I know it’s not going to work if I ask you to examine the Bible with reason and logic, but please do.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been and will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are no gods, you will be gone, but you will have lived a good life.
I believe 35% of the world is Christian. I for one am surprised the other 65% haven’t caught on yet. All the Hindus are clearly wrong as it’s not written as they claim in the bible. The Muslims are really making a mess of this who religion thing.
It is good for humans to believe in God even if it’s a lie. It gives us peace of mind. Personally I think we should all just meditate, but religion has evolved as we have become aware of our mortality. Every culture has a belief in a higher being. Interestingly they didn’t all get to come across the Christ model.
Oh, was Adam Asian, Caucasion, African, Mongoloid?
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
[quote]ron22 wrote:
Another misconception I’ve heard/noticed is that science and Christianity can’t get along. The farther along I am into getting my MD has only helped to solidify my faith.
There’s just so much going on in such intricate and perfect order that it’s hard for me to think that life happend by chance. I love this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson: “All I have seen teaches me to trust the creator for all I have not seen.”[/quote]
And Adam made Eve from a rib.
Yeah Right… Makes perfect sense to me now!!
A dead man, somehow came to life after a couple of days. WOW dude!! back in the day! they had the best revival system ever!!
uhu… sure…
Why do people grow tumors? Why are there congenital enzyme deficiencies and many many other diseases when “the omnipotent omniscient skydaddy” created us?
Why didn’t “The LORRRRDDA” make our immunesystem better if he KNEW IN ADVANCE that AIDS would “fuck” us? Why did he create that virus?
Why did he create HOMOSEEEEXXUUUAAALllIYAH???
I am insulted. I am a medical student too, and I an insulted that such superstitious stupidass people can do the same. Now I don’t feel very intelligent anymore. ;)[/quote]
God never created these things. It was never his intentions for these things to exist. They came into the world after we failed to keep a simple command. When death entered the world, so did disease, and imperfection. Its our fault, not God’s.
But yes, go ahead and make fun of me somehow. That tends to be the kind of response anti “religious”, mainly anti Christians, seem to give.
[/quote]
You say: God is not omnipotent and not omniscient. So he can’t create a stone that is so big he can’t lift it. Even if he could, he wouldn’t be able to lift the stone.
So god must be maximally great. He needs to operate within the borders of logic.
[/quote]
I am not seeing an argument, just saying random stuff.
Are you saying I cannot tell? I can tell there is a God. Reason, logic, discernment, &c. If you would like to see evidence and are willing to have an open mind I won’t mind finding my folder on my old computer, but if you don’t care to look at the evidence, please let me know either way.
Well, there are many logical arguments, I think you mean “sound” or “good” arguments. There is a difference, I can give you logical arguments all day why there is a God, but they may not be sound or good. However, I have a few of the latter two as well.
Why should we not get in the government, because we are Christians we should refrain from social jobs? If what you say about the Christian party is true, that is not very good Christian behavior, please to not base your feelings of Christians on their actions because obviously they are misguided and fueling the misconceptions.
[quote]Erasmus wrote:
[quote]ron22 wrote:
It’s ok. You probably are way more intelligent than me anyway…being from Holland and all…[/quote]
Intelligence is the wrong word. I shouldn’t have used it. I stand corrected.
I know it’s not going to work if I ask you to examine the Bible with reason and logic, but please do.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been and will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are no gods, you will be gone, but you will have lived a good life.
[/quote]
Just curious, did you just tell a forum with a large group of Christians that we should just try and be “virtuous.” That will not get anyone to Heaven, good will to be good does not get one to Heaven, and I have never heard of a God that would accept anyone for just having good will. That is not in any Theology I know of.
[quote]Andrew Dixon wrote:
I believe 35% of the world is Christian. I for one am surprised the other 65% haven’t caught on yet. All the Hindus are clearly wrong as it’s not written as they claim in the bible. The Muslims are really making a mess of this who religion thing.
It is good for humans to believe in God even if it’s a lie. It gives us peace of mind. Personally I think we should all just meditate, but religion has evolved as we have become aware of our mortality. Every culture has a belief in a higher being. Interestingly they didn’t all get to come across the Christ model.
Oh, was Adam Asian, Caucasion, African, Mongoloid? [/quote]
Well, now matters who ya ask ;). I say he is Human and that determining what Geographical area he comes from would be a little difficult, especially since Genesis 1-3 is a symbolic view of how the world as we know it came about.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…it does not matter to me how you perceive me Sloth, that much should’ve been clear by now?[/quote]
That’s my point exactly. You view yourself, your very existence, as futile. Therefore, you mustn’t expect us to feel otherwise. If anything, it would be rude on our part to treat you any other way but as insignificant. So you are futile. Your views and arguments are futile. How you–and your arguments–are perceived are futile. So, why? [/quote]
…just biding my time Sloth, just biding my time and have a little fun in the meantime…
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Red Herring, how does my insignificance have anything to do with following what God asks of me and there being only one true God? (Actually there is several ways to get to Heaven, not just following the Catholic Religion, but I do not want to confuse that misconception with this misconception). [/quote]
…you are only insignificant until you follow a religion. After that you’ve become special by grace of that religion…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…but because you believe in this god he favors you?
[/quote]
I believe in Him because He “favored” me, to use your word. I have not, even in the bible, and may never be given a reason for His favor. You can rest utterly assured that it had nothing to do with my being better or smarter than anybody else.
In my BC days I took up space and squandered every precious moment of life groping for new and innovative ways to serve myself. I was not in any way seeking to become a Christian when I did. God orders everyTHING and everyONE to His own glory by His own definition of what that means.
He neither consults with nor conforms to any standard beyond Himself. The scorn of unbelievers and the praise of His saints are equally made to exalt Him. One displays His holy justice, the other His merciful grace.
There are plenty of questions that I am not given specific answers to. That I know there ARE answers sufficient to Him is the very definition of faith. I refuse to probe the depths of His unknowable being or providence any further than He has chosen to reveal as only sinful folly can result from such insolent presumption.
I prefer to marvel in awe at the fact that He reveals Himself to a rebellious evil creation at all.
Believe me my friend, lol. I know EXACTLY how insanely idiotic that sounds to you.[/quote]
…a testament to the odd things the human mind is capable of. Thank you for your reply, and have a blessed day…
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
As for misconceptions? Here’s one even some of the heathen will like. =] The idea that Jesus of Nazareth came to Earth to promote a socialist secular government. A damnable lie promoted by despicable politicians from the seats of power and pagan false teachers from the pulpits of deception in churches the world over.
Watching these lowlifes take the name of Christ to foment their big government nanny state spending program makes my blood boil.[/quote]
…so when he supposedly said, “Love thy enemy”, he actually meant “label people on the other side of the world, who are no threat to you, as an enemy and bomb the shit out of them”?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, you’re fortunate. Though you may know a great many religious folks, you’re still free to feel as if your existence is completely futile.[/quote]
Conjuring straw men again I see.
You’re very good at it.[/quote]
How is basically saying he’s entitled to his opinion a strawman? You doing ok lately?[/quote]
When you start to make up things about what other people think about existence, you basically fail. The spin routine, trying to make everyone believe atheists are inherently immoral/nihilistic/suicidal/whatever doesn’t cut it.[/quote]
Make up what he thinks about existence…Uh, did you even read his post? Lol. You do realize I used his own words, don’t you?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
As for misconceptions? Here’s one even some of the heathen will like. =] The idea that Jesus of Nazareth came to Earth to promote a socialist secular government. A damnable lie promoted by despicable politicians from the seats of power and pagan false teachers from the pulpits of deception in churches the world over.
Watching these lowlifes take the name of Christ to foment their big government nanny state spending program makes my blood boil.[/quote]
…so when he supposedly said, “Love thy enemy”, he actually meant “label people on the other side of the world, who are no threat to you, as an enemy and bomb the shit out of them”?[/quote]
Which brings us to another misconception. That being that quotes of 3 words at a time are sufficient to understand even what you or I might be saying about something to say nothing of the incarnate Son of God.
Or that even whole passages encompassing the broader context of the immediate point or points will always yield the truth apart from the system of biblical teaching as a whole which leads to yet another misconception. This one being that Jesus Christ Himself or the rest of the new covenant teachers had ANYTHING specific to say to or about about secular civil governments at all, other than they are to be obeyed in all cases save when it would be disobedience to God to do so.
And wouldn’t ya know it, this leads right into what may be the crowning achievement of all misconceptions about Christianity. That is that Jesus of Nazareth was a great moral teacher who came preaching an exceptionally high set of values to the world. Every syllable of every command and promise (which are 2 sides of the same coin) except those demanding the repentance and conversion of sinners are directed exclusively at those who already believe, or are about to believe the gospel which begins in the 1st chapter of Genesis.
He did not come annunciating how to be good enough for God. He came demonstrating that nobody can be except Him, being God himself, and that He, being the only one who could, would pay the debt owed by those given Him by the Father who would believe Him and put their lives in His hands. This produces a supernatural resurrection from death to life and along with it a simultaneous declaration of war by both sides. The old man born dead in the first Adam and the new creature in Christ, born again in the last. The flesh against the spirit. Not the good enough against the very bad. Charles Manson and Mahatma Gandhi will spend eternity in the same hell.
When Jesus speaks about loving your enemies He is not commanding John Fitzgerald Kennedy to love Nikita Khrushchev. He is commanding me to offer to fix our neighbor’s computer for free when she destroys my wife’s flowers for example. A thing that does not come easy.
I apologize for the long posts, but there are no short answers to anything having to do with topics like these and even my long posts are woefully inadequate. Christianity is a comprehensive system of divine thought that does not lend itself well to quick answers and proof texting.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
As for misconceptions? Here’s one even some of the heathen will like. =] The idea that Jesus of Nazareth came to Earth to promote a socialist secular government. A damnable lie promoted by despicable politicians from the seats of power and pagan false teachers from the pulpits of deception in churches the world over.
Watching these lowlifes take the name of Christ to foment their big government nanny state spending program makes my blood boil.[/quote]
…so when he supposedly said, “Love thy enemy”, he actually meant “label people on the other side of the world, who are no threat to you, as an enemy and bomb the shit out of them”?[/quote]
Which brings us to another misconception. That being that quotes of 3 words at a time are sufficient to understand even what you or I might be saying about something to say nothing of the incarnate Son of God.
Or that even whole passages encompassing the broader context of the immediate point or points will always yield the truth apart from the system of biblical teaching as a whole which leads to yet another misconception. This one being that Jesus Christ Himself or the rest of the new covenant teachers had ANYTHING specific to say to or about about secular civil governments at all, other than they are to be obeyed in all cases save when it would be disobedience to God to do so.
And wouldn’t ya know it, this leads right into what may be the crowning achievement of all misconceptions about Christianity. That is that Jesus of Nazareth was a great moral teacher who came preaching an exceptionally high set of values to the world. Every syllable of every command and promise (which are 2 sides of the same coin) except those demanding the repentance and conversion of sinners are directed exclusively at those who already believe, or are about to believe the gospel which begins in the 1st chapter of Genesis.
He did not come annunciating how to be good enough for God. He came demonstrating that nobody can be except Him, being God himself, and that He, being the only one who could, would pay the debt owed by those given Him by the Father who would believe Him and put their lives in His hands. This produces a supernatural resurrection from death to life and along with it a simultaneous declaration of war by both sides. The old man born dead in the first Adam and the new creature in Christ, born again in the last. The flesh against the spirit. Not the good enough against the very bad. Charles Manson and Mahatma Gandhi will spend eternity in the same hell.
When Jesus speaks about loving your enemies He is not commanding John Fitzgerald Kennedy to love Nikita Khrushchev. He is commanding me to offer to fix our neighbor’s computer for free when she destroys my wife’s flowers for example. A thing that does not come easy.
I apologize for the long posts, but there are no short answers to anything having to do with topics like these and even my long posts are woefully inadequate. Christianity is a comprehensive system of divine thought that does not lend itself well to quick answers and proof texting.[/quote]
…ehm, what the Bible allows you to do is to justify any behaviour you deem necessary in the persuit of whatever, due to it’s multi-interpretable and utterly vague language. Calling that a comprehensive system of divine thought, well, that’s your right ofcourse, but it continues to cause the same misconceptions this thread aims to clarify. Truth is simple and succinct [imo] not convoluted and obtuse…