Mir Wants a Rematch with Brock!

Training
101

[quote]Nikiforos wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

It should be noted that these undercard fighters making MAYBE 10 k a fight assuming a win are under exclusive contract to the UFC and cannot supplement their income from fighting in other orgs - nor can they choose to fight very often, that’s up to the UFC. I don’t really see these dudes making a decent living out of it and it certainly won’t tempt young super athletes in their late teens looking to make a career choice. There can only be so many superstars in one single organisation. For the sport to truly expand, there will eventually need to exist a long term competitor to the UFC. [/quote]

The counter argument is why should they be able to make a decent level at it until they have proved themselves and can pull in some fans to the live event and PPV. If you pay them big money just for getting on the card then what is the incentive for them to strive for more. (not sure I buy that 100% but sure that would be the line from Dana, well there would probably be a few more swear words but you get the gist.)

102

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.[/quote]

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.

103

[quote]ZEB wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
Holy bad math. PPV Buys + cost of PPV != amount zuffa sees.

Zeb: that article you quoted, says "UFC estimated 2008 sales: $250 million Zuffa is a private company, they don’t release earnings figures, and don’t have to. Since you have no clue what they make you can’t even guess as to what they should be paying their fighters. "

We can know as it is announced how many are sold. If, for example, they sell 2 million ppv buys at 40 bucks per that’s 80 million dollars. Pretty simple whether they’re public or private it matters not. We may have to guess at what the UFC game, action figures and TV show bring in but we can be sure of what the revenue on ppv is.

Laws of supply and demand dictate how much they’ll pay a fighter. There are VERY few fighters that will add a $1 million draw to a ppv, so there are very few fighters that make even close to that.

I’m not so sure about that. In fact, I don’t think Dana White would say that either. That’s why there is always a big name fight at the end of the card and often a couple of big name fights (one championship). People pay to see good fighters fight other good fighters, taht IS the draw. Guys like Lesnar, GSP, Penn, Couture and several others have made the UFC what it is today. What did they get in return in comparison to what the UFC makes? Squat!
[/quote]

What they got in return was to be multi millionaires when a few years back they were highschool teachers, tyre fitters, IT help desk employees or whatever.

104

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.
[/quote]

Those fighters are making very good money from their gyms, seminar tours, instructional videos etc. This is their retirement fund. Any that are not really need to be having words with their managers.

105

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.
[/quote]

The top athletes in most other sports rely on government handouts to even put training camps together.

106

If there was such a separation between what the owner makes and what the athlete makes in any other sport they would strike. It will be interesting what happens with salaries if Strikeforce becomes a factor or there becomes a fighters union.

107

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Here’s more interesting information that will shed some light on what the UFC makes:

“The Fertittas field pleas from private equity and media firms to sell UFC. Those offers, they assert, exceed $1 billion. Not a bad return on investment for something they paid a mere $2 million for in 2001.”
[/quote]
Is that all they have sunk into it, 2 million? They are also trying to sell a product. I don’t put any stock in the UFC selling for $1B. Especially in this market. Not that this is even relavent to the discussion.

You really, truly, honestly beleive this? They would have sold my friend. Long ago and for much less.

You don’t know what they pay them. I am sure I sound like a broken record to most, but for some reason this is not sinking in for you. I don’t know why.

[quote]
Here is the article:

From The Archive - Forbes: Ultimate Cash Machines - MMA Facts

I admire your passion my friend, but on this one you’re just wrong. The UFC could easily afford to pay their fighters what other top sports champions make.[/quote]

The author of this article is lacking in any type of accounting or economics knowledge, not to mention basic reasoning skills. Does the UFC take 100% of the gate? Does the UFC take 100% of the PPV?

108

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.
[/quote]

You can quote as many articles as you want and make as many posts as you want. It does not change the fact that you have no idea what the UFC makes. You have no idea what the fighters make. Comparing the UFC to other sports with many multiples the exposure, advertising, and network deals is silly.

If the fighters were worth more, they would be making more. If the UFC was worth $1B dollars, they would have sold for $1B. You are only worth what someone is willing to pay you. A company is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This is no different than a car, house, oil, gold, or any other good or service.

While a particular fighter could be underpaid due to bad management or just bad luck, it is silly to assert that an entire industry of fighters are being underpaid under volentary contracts. Basic economic law. There is nothing more to add to this arguement.

109

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

It should be noted that these undercard fighters making MAYBE 10 k a fight assuming a win are under exclusive contract to the UFC and cannot supplement their income from fighting in other orgs - nor can they choose to fight very often, that’s up to the UFC. I don’t really see these dudes making a decent living out of it and it certainly won’t tempt young super athletes in their late teens looking to make a career choice. There can only be so many superstars in one single organisation. For the sport to truly expand, there will eventually need to exist a long term competitor to the UFC.

The counter argument is why should they be able to make a decent level at it until they have proved themselves and can pull in some fans to the live event and PPV. If you pay them big money just for getting on the card then what is the incentive for them to strive for more. (not sure I buy that 100% but sure that would be the line from Dana, well there would probably be a few more swear words but you get the gist.)[/quote]

I’m not even saying they should make NFL money… just something better than 15.000- 20.000 per year… I dunno how far that money can get you in the states, but here in the UK it’s not much at all, you can make that working entry level at McDonald’s. Paying these guys a little bit more would mean these entry level guys could focus on fighting full time. It would also be good INCENTIVE to get people wanting to fight in the sport. I know kids don’t really think about the money when they pick the sport they like, but there are people who could make a choice to switch over and don’t because of financial limitations. (college wrestlers, boxers, gifted MA guys, kickboxers) MAYBE PERHAPS sponsorship money covers that gap already and they can live comfortably enough to focus on training full time. I hope so for sure.

110

dhickey you might want to take a look at this link. UFC 102 Payouts: Nogueira Banks $460,000
Payouts are released by th UFC and written up on many sites like Sherdog, five ounces of pain, or Yahoo sports to name a few. The UFC does a lot of things right but no question the pay for lower level fighters in their org is crazy.

Thats why so many of them go to StrikeForce or Dream. 5k to show and 5k more to win only pays for the trip and your manager. They get away with it because everybody wants to be in the big show.

111

[quote]El Juggernaut wrote:
dhickey you might want to take a look at this link. UFC 102 Payouts: Nogueira Banks $460,000
Payouts are released by th UFC and written up on many sites like Sherdog, five ounces of pain, or Yahoo sports to name a few. The UFC does a lot of things right but no question the pay for lower level fighters in their org is crazy.

Thats why so many of them go to StrikeForce or Dream. 5k to show and 5k more to win only pays for the trip and your manager. They get away with it because everybody wants to be in the big show.[/quote]

The figures on there are not the full payout. We have been over this a number of times.

Incidentally, 2 years ago Couture was making over a million a fight. He was complaining at the time due to the fact that Liddell was making more than him despite losing twice. This information is in the public domain due to the lawsuit between the UFC and Couture.

The top guys are making good money!

112

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
El Juggernaut wrote:
dhickey you might want to take a look at this link. UFC 102 Payouts: Nogueira Banks $460,000
Payouts are released by th UFC and written up on many sites like Sherdog, five ounces of pain, or Yahoo sports to name a few. The UFC does a lot of things right but no question the pay for lower level fighters in their org is crazy.

Thats why so many of them go to StrikeForce or Dream. 5k to show and 5k more to win only pays for the trip and your manager. They get away with it because everybody wants to be in the big show.

The figures on there are not the full payout. We have been over this a number of times.

Incidentally, 2 years ago Couture was making over a million a fight. He was complaining at the time due to the fact that Liddell was making more than him despite losing twice. This information is in the public domain due to the lawsuit between the UFC and Couture.

The top guys are making good money![/quote]

Definitely. I think however there is also some room for suspicion when it comes to the payouts to low tier or mid tier guys… when it comes to following most sports, I have a hard time NOT hearing how much X soccer player makes per week in the sports papers etc. The UFC are doing their best to keep these things on the low apart from when they’re obliged to release them. I think there’s definitely room for improvement, but for that to occur we need a stable competitor to the UFC first. I really do hope Strikeforce establish themselves.

113

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
mitchellh wrote:
Holy bad math. PPV Buys + cost of PPV != amount zuffa sees.

Zeb: that article you quoted, says "UFC estimated 2008 sales: $250 million Zuffa is a private company, they don’t release earnings figures, and don’t have to. Since you have no clue what they make you can’t even guess as to what they should be paying their fighters. "

We can know as it is announced how many are sold. If, for example, they sell 2 million ppv buys at 40 bucks per that’s 80 million dollars. Pretty simple whether they’re public or private it matters not. We may have to guess at what the UFC game, action figures and TV show bring in but we can be sure of what the revenue on ppv is.

Laws of supply and demand dictate how much they’ll pay a fighter. There are VERY few fighters that will add a $1 million draw to a ppv, so there are very few fighters that make even close to that.

I’m not so sure about that. In fact, I don’t think Dana White would say that either. That’s why there is always a big name fight at the end of the card and often a couple of big name fights (one championship). People pay to see good fighters fight other good fighters, taht IS the draw. Guys like Lesnar, GSP, Penn, Couture and several others have made the UFC what it is today. What did they get in return in comparison to what the UFC makes? Squat!

What they got in return was to be multi millionaires when a few years back they were highschool teachers, tyre fitters, IT help desk employees or whatever.[/quote]

Now compare what they got in return with what other champions in all the other major sports got in return for not being teachers, IT help desk employees etc.

114

[quote]dhickey wrote:
ZEB wrote:

Wow, they’re pretty good business men aren’t they? Purchased it for 2 million and now it’s probably worth 1 billion, that’s “B” as in BILLION!

You really, truly, honestly beleive this? They would have sold my friend. Long ago and for much less.[/quote]

Stop projecting, you (and I) may have sold for that much, but they know what they have and they’re not selling. The UFC will be worth much more in a short period of time.

[quote]'ve seen all sorts of income statements and balance sheets and read other financial data. It seems that if you pay your help somewhere between 8% and 20% on a monthly basis you are in the ball park. If they grossed 250 million last year that means that they could afford to pay at least their top guys 1 million per fight. But, they don’t!

You don’t know what they pay them. I am sure I sound like a broken record to most, but for some reason this is not sinking in for you. I don’t know why.[/quote]

Let’s just say that we know what they DO NOT pay them. They DO NOT pay them what other champions from other major sports make. That we do know, for sure.

115

[quote]dhickey wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well comapared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precident that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.

You can quote as many articles as you want and make as many posts as you want. It does not change the fact that you have no idea what the UFC makes. You have no idea what the fighters make. Comparing the UFC to other sports with many multiples the exposure, advertising, and network deals is silly.[/quote]

We know about what the UFC is worth. And that should tell you something. There are large equity groups willing to pay 1 billion for the UFC. Do you think those guys know how to figure profit/loss on a business? Ah, yep.

Comparing the UFC to other sports is the only real measure of worth relative to fighter salaries. If golfers, Boxers, football, baseball, hockey and tennis make far more than mma fighters and the popularity of mma is equal or greater to those other sports (which it is) then you know that the fighters are taking a royal screwing (which they are).

Simple.

Let me rephrase that for you to make it more accurate: “If Dana White could get away with paying them even less then he would.” He pays them all he has to and that’s pretty much that, at least for now.

That’s you projecting what you would do, and like I’ve already said I would too. But, you see they are close to the situation and know how much it’s worth and will be worth in the near future and they are not selling!

Also, don’t discount the quality information that Forbes brings to the table. This is a very credible business magazine. I do believe that they’ve had offers in that range.

But you just said that the UFC is not worth 1 billion and if it were they would have sold it. Apparently someone (or more than one) thinks that it’s worth 1 billion, who are you to say that this has not taken place?

If your argument is Dana White is paying them all he has to, I agree. But, “all he has to” is a very cheap wage in comparison to other major sports stars.

But that shouldn’t stop us from continuing on with the argument, I feel several more pages are in order, with many more articles confirming my point of view from writers, coaches, managers, fighters and other credible sports stars.

Maybe by the time that we are actually finished you, Dana White and the Ferrita brothers will be the only people who feel that the UFC fighters are paid enough.

116

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

The figures on there are not the full payout. We have been over this a number of times.[/quote]

I question why this has to be such a secret. Why don’t you google your favorite sports star from any other sport. You can add up how much they’ve made almost right down to their endorsement contracts.

If many of guys were really raking in the cash Dana White would be bragging about it in order to encourage all the lower level fighters.

I’m not saying that a few of the favorites are not getting more, but what does that really prove?

117

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
By all means man, bring up economics. You make good points all around, and I’m not saying a union is the way to go I just think it should [and probably has] be looked into. I should’ve said excluding endorsements, sponsorship, handouts, etc… a fighters compensation seems to be a small piece of a large pie that admittedly is probably cut a shit ton of different ways. I also doubt the UFC is clearing only 20%.

Not saying you’re wrong or I’m right I just have a feeling they’re doing things for pennies on the dollar and fucking raking it in. It’s owned by casino entrepeneurs, and pretty sure those guys know a thing or two about returning an investment.

Don’t forget that most of the name guys also have their own gyms and go on seminar tours. The reason they can make money from their gyms and their seminars is that they are names through their success on the UFC.

Most casino games are taking less than 5c on the dollar out of which all of the overheads and your drinks need to be paid. Yes they are making money but not hand over fist. The UFC is the same. At the moment they are investing hugely in expanding into other markets. Ultimately this should protect their business and allow for greater incomes (and security for their fighters) but at the moment it is a huge drain on profits.

Pay for fighters will increase year on year, this is what we have seen in every sport. It is prudent of the UFC to try to keep a lid on this as long as possible to avoid the situation we see in boxing where a couple of guys hold the world to ransom for ridiculous paydays leaving an anaemic undercard where underpaid nobodies fight in front of an empty auditorium.[/quote]

Sorry man, was out of town and just saw this. I know a lot of these guys capitalize on the “name” the UFC has given them, but that’s no different than any sport as far as I know. Warren Moon was charging random kids $20 an autograph years after he retired, haha. Not sure how your boxing example differs from the current UFC model, as the top guys are making in the mid six figures and the “underpaid nobodies” are making like 2-3 grand a fight. Just seems like boxing is on a larger pay scale. Either way, as much as I love boxing I think MMA is proving itself to be no fluke and if it doesn’t supplant boxing as the #1 fight sport in the near future, than it will be running neck-and-neck with it. But, for that to happen the hefty pay-days are gonna have to show themselves pretty soon.

118

[quote]ZEB wrote:

We know about what the UFC is worth. And that should tell you something. There are large equity groups willing to pay 1 billion for the UFC. Do you think those guys know how to figure profit/loss on a business? Ah, yep.
[/quote]
You believe the UFC is a billion dollar company?

The UFC is not as popular as the golf, boxing, football, baseball, hockey, or tennis. These other sports are on another level of sponsorship and veiwership.

Yeah. This is how the free market works. Read a single book on economics and you will start to understand how the world works.

You really think the UFC is worth a billion dollars?

Please.

Billion dollar companies are pretty rare. I don’t see how the UFC could be one of them.

irrelevent. Dana is not only competing with other MMA orgs but also with other sports, accounting firms, engineering firms, etc. If fighters could make more money doing something just as rewarding, they would be. Salaries are no differnt than any other prices. They are set by supply and demand. Again, try a book on economics.

Then by all means continue to post irrelevent and incomplete information from others that do not understand the very basic principals of economics. If you don’t understand these principals and refuse to use logic and reason, the discussion can not go any further than it has gone already.

“paid enough” means absolutly nothing to me. I understand how salaries are set in a free market where employer and employee are free to negotiate. It seems to have some arbitrary meaning to you becuase you do not understand how salaries are set in a free market where employer and employee are free to negotiate.

119

[quote]ZEB wrote:
dhickey wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I’m here with ZEB.
Most of his arguments are rock hard (UFC’s recent success, message to new talent etc)

I don’t care for the “secret money”.
Fighter are clearly underpaid. They shouldn’t have to rely on a vague promise for some semi-shady bonus.

I can possibly see the argument that the bottom paid guys in the UFC are getting underpaid (they do well compared to boxing undercard but it would be good if there was a way to pay them a bit more.)

For the guys at the top, they are making good money. I am sure in a few years the guys at the very top will be making even more money but the UFC is right not to rush into this and set a precedent that could kill the sport down the line.

I will again make the point that boxing suffers badly from having overpaid fighters for a number of years. They now can’t put the fights together because it doesn’t make business sense.

Again, the top athletes in every other sport dwarf what the top UFC fighters are making. In some cases it’s 20-1 or even greater. It isn’t even close. We know the money is there but it’s not being proportionally spent on the fighters at the top, middle or bottom. It’s not like these guys have a retirement system, health insurance or even a union (like baseball and other sports). All they have is what they can do with their hands and feet, and that only lasts a few years in most cases. I’d just like to see these guys treated (financially) the way they deserve to be treated.

If you want to draw more and better talent to mma then the pay must go up, otherwise gifted athletes who have a choice will gravitate to other sports.

In the end being cheap hurts everyone.

You can quote as many articles as you want and make as many posts as you want. It does not change the fact that you have no idea what the UFC makes. You have no idea what the fighters make. Comparing the UFC to other sports with many multiples the exposure, advertising, and network deals is silly.

We know about what the UFC is worth. And that should tell you something. There are large equity groups willing to pay 1 billion for the UFC. Do you think those guys know how to figure profit/loss on a business? Ah, yep.

Comparing the UFC to other sports is the only real measure of worth relative to fighter salaries. If golfers, Boxers, football, baseball, hockey and tennis make far more than mma fighters and the popularity of mma is equal or greater to those other sports (which it is) then you know that the fighters are taking a royal screwing (which they are).

Simple.

If the fighters were worth more, they would be making more.

Let me rephrase that for you to make it more accurate: “If Dana White could get away with paying them even less then he would.” He pays them all he has to and that’s pretty much that, at least for now.

If the UFC was worth $1B dollars, they would have sold for $1B.

That’s you projecting what you would do, and like I’ve already said I would too. But, you see they are close to the situation and know how much it’s worth and will be worth in the near future and they are not selling!

Also, don’t discount the quality information that Forbes brings to the table. This is a very credible business magazine. I do believe that they’ve had offers in that range.

You are only worth what someone is willing to pay you. A company is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. This is no different than a car, house, oil, gold, or any other good or service.

But you just said that the UFC is not worth 1 billion and if it were they would have sold it. Apparently someone (or more than one) thinks that it’s worth 1 billion, who are you to say that this has not taken place?

While a particular fighter could be underpaid due to bad management or just bad luck, it is silly to assert that an entire industry of fighters are being underpaid under voluntary contracts.

If your argument is Dana White is paying them all he has to, I agree. But, “all he has to” is a very cheap wage in comparison to other major sports stars.

There is nothing more to add to this argument.

But that shouldn’t stop us from continuing on with the argument, I feel several more pages are in order, with many more articles confirming my point of view from writers, coaches, managers, fighters and other credible sports stars.

Maybe by the time that we are actually finished you, Dana White and the Ferrita brothers will be the only people who feel that the UFC fighters are paid enough.
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The average pro tennis player doesn’t make good money. The stars make big money but someone outside the top 100 is not making good money.

Most MLS players will make less than $50K per year.

Average Golf Pro is making about $50-60K per year.

Yes the pay for a starting out MMA fighter unless they have some sort of angle is going to be shit. It is way better than it was 10 years ago and hopefully it will continue to improve but comparing the pay for the top 2-3 guys in sports that have been around for decades and have huge multi million dollar endorsement deals and TV deals to a sport that has really only been around 20 years and has only broken into the mainstream conscience within the last 3-4 years is just flat out stupid.

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[quote]ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:

The figures on there are not the full payout. We have been over this a number of times.

I question why this has to be such a secret. Why don’t you google your favorite sports star from any other sport. You can add up how much they’ve made almost right down to their endorsement contracts.

If many of guys were really raking in the cash Dana White would be bragging about it in order to encourage all the lower level fighters.

I’m not saying that a few of the favorites are not getting more, but what does that really prove?

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The UFC doesn’t want to publicize the deals because it makes it easier for other promotions to poach fighters, it also leads to fighters comparing and drives costs up.

The fighters don’t want to publicize the full deals because they are probably not paying tax on the full amounts. This is especially true with some of the foreign fighters which is why you often see some strange figures for them in the official pay.

When Fedor has fought in the US, his official pay has looked very low.