[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Did we just have a 2 page accounting geek-out here? I think we did. That was by far one of the most interesting tangent discussions I’ve seen here in PWI. I just learned a lot…and I love it! haha[/quote]
Nice, thanks.
I can go on and on about other nerd topics too, just let me know. [/quote]
Happens all the time. I can’t even count how many diagrams and scenarios I’ve created for discussions like this. Sadly, I find it fun.
Step 1 for MD is complete. $10.10 here we come.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Step 1 for MD is complete. $10.10 here we come. [/quote]
I’m sure some formula is responsible, but I’m not a genius on the history of minimum wage laws. How do we arrive at seemingly arbitrary numbers like $10.10? (Really hoping the article I didn’t click on doesn’t say this usmc so forgive me if it does).
I’m genuinely curious. Why 7.25 and not 7.00 or 7.50? And why 10.10 and not 10 or 10.25? It seems to make certain “sense” to set these price floors in quarter or half increments to me. I’m sure it is based on some cost of living calculations or something, but does anyone know how governments arrive at these specific numbers like 10.10?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Step 1 for MD is complete. $10.10 here we come. [/quote]
OMF–KingGAWD 
Didn’t read the thread, so apologies if this had been brought up before.
What do you guys think of a maximum wage? The Swiss seem to think it might be a good idea. (eg having a maximum ratio from lowest paid to highest paid). Seems like a good idea, although it’s a touchy issue putting caps on people’s salary/wage, but there seems to be some logic behind this.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
What do you guys think of a maximum wage? [/quote]
I think it is tranny. Any government that limits the amount of wage you can receive from your efforts has effectively rendered all your rights moot.
You are not free under a system like this, not even close.
[quote] but there seems to be some logic behind this.
[/quote]
That logic must include destroying innovation and economic expansion in the region then.
I mean, what better way to ensure people settle for less than they are truly capable of, then limit the rewards of their efforts.
tyranny not tranny.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
What do you guys think of a maximum wage? [/quote]
I think it is tranny. Any government that limits the amount of wage you can receive from your efforts has effectively rendered all your rights moot.
You are not free under a system like this, not even close.
[quote] but there seems to be some logic behind this.
[/quote]
That logic must include destroying innovation and economic expansion in the region then.
I mean, what better way to ensure people settle for less than they are truly capable of, then limit the rewards of their efforts. [/quote]
Agreed. The only thing I would possibly see it on would be anything to do with Wall Street or banks that are too big to fail. These jackasses that got to take American tax dollars to save their companies from fucking up who still probably have more money than almost all of us on this thread combined. Those guys don’t deserve any type of reward for their efforts. If the United States government has to give you a bunch of money so your company doesn’t go under then a maximum for those dickheads wouldn’t bother me one bit.
Of course having the government get the fuck out of the financial sector would be even better…but that isn’t happening anytime soon. I’d love to see finance reform simply be saying no one is too big to fail and the U.S. government will throw people in jail for criminally misleading peoples money. Search for assholes like that and prosecute them and maybe we won’t have to have President Bush, Democrats, Republicans telling us how giant of a payment companies need to save themselves.
Too much money in the big money to actually go after certain players though. And Dodd-Frank won’t do anything to stop the next one as any meaningful potential reform got fought hard by lobbyists and the connected so the rules would all stay the same.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
tyranny not tranny. [/quote]
I agree , it is tyranny
[quote]H factor wrote:
The only thing I would possibly see it on would be anything to do with Wall Street or banks that are too big to fail. These jackasses that got to take American tax dollars to save their companies from fucking up who still probably have more money than almost all of us on this thread combined. Those guys don’t deserve any type of reward for their efforts. If the United States government has to give you a bunch of money so your company doesn’t go under then a maximum for those dickheads wouldn’t bother me one bit. [/quote]
I am anti bail out too. They should have let the banks fail, bailed out the citizens if you are going to bail out anyone, and let new more competent institutions take their place.
It would have hurt more at first, but we’d be much healthier now for it.
Four groups of people have blame in the meltdown:
There are people in each of the first three that should be in prison over this for one thing or another. But government only ever jails people in the 4th category unless it is ultra egregious.
But realistically, letting them go bankrupt and jailing the people that should go would go a lot further in “regulation of the markets” than any law will.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
The only thing I would possibly see it on would be anything to do with Wall Street or banks that are too big to fail. These jackasses that got to take American tax dollars to save their companies from fucking up who still probably have more money than almost all of us on this thread combined. Those guys don’t deserve any type of reward for their efforts. If the United States government has to give you a bunch of money so your company doesn’t go under then a maximum for those dickheads wouldn’t bother me one bit. [/quote]
I am anti bail out too. They should have let the banks fail, bailed out the citizens if you are going to bail out anyone, and let new more competent institutions take their place.
It would have hurt more at first, but we’d be much healthier now for it.
Four groups of people have blame in the meltdown:
There are people in each of the first three that should be in prison over this for one thing or another. But government only ever jails people in the 4th category unless it is ultra egregious.
But realistically, letting them go bankrupt and jailing the people that should go would go a lot further in “regulation of the markets” than any law will.
[/quote]
Completely agree. I find little fault with number 4 simply because some Americans (fuck, most) are really stupid and they will give you their money to gamble with all the time. I feel more sorry for the people who are taken advantage of by the schemes than by the people who are intelligent enough to know how risky everything they are doing is.
Sadly the first two have no way of taking the blame and the people in category 3 use everything in their power to influence them because that’s how you buy immortality with money. The fact that numerous fat cats not only got bailed out and huge payments, but few if anyone actually went to jail over that is one of the biggest mistakes in American history over the last 30 years. IMO of course.
The argument that those dickheads need to enjoy the fruits of their “labor” goes against everything this country is supposed to stand for in my opinion. And FWIW I’m claiming people from the government should have seen jail time as well!
If the Swiss aren’t free with a maximum wage then we aren’t free either. Because MASSIVE infusions of the peoples money went to those who had squandered the peoples money already. That’s not freedom and that’s not capitalism. It’s downright criminal nothing more nothing less.
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
Didn’t read the thread, so apologies if this had been brought up before.
What do you guys think of a maximum wage? The Swiss seem to think it might be a good idea. (eg having a maximum ratio from lowest paid to highest paid). Seems like a good idea, although it’s a touchy issue putting caps on people’s salary/wage, but there seems to be some logic behind this.
No innovation, eventually what already exists will cease to function, the state will physically force people to work and it will be extremely inefficient. This is an even worse(far worse) idea than a minimum wage. A minimum wage might make it harder to succeed, but this removes all incentive and opportunity to do so.
The bottom of the article does make one good(great) point, but we’ll see how well it works out for the Swiss when they’re all speaking crazy Towelhead/Mexican/Chink languages.
Put 12 Microsoft janitors(that would be 12 times the pay of likely the lowest paid employee in the company) together and let them design software. Find out how well that works out.
When all is said and done there is no evidence that raising the minimum wage to the levels being discussed will cause a net loss of jobs. Australia has a minimum wage equivalent to $12 an hour U.S. and was one of the only countries to escape the global recession.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
:)[/quote]
Thats just what they got paid for doing something. Don’t even look at their life time pensions and benefits when they “retire” from office.
That maximum wage thing is a weird one. Past a certain point, it just looks like a decadent pageant of egos to see who can make more, and it kind of is. But then you have to look at the return these guys generate. Every fund of every type that people have for socking money away is composed of these companies. People are making money off of those executives and companies whether they realize it or not, and unless they really dig into the minutia of their 401K’s or what ever they have, they don’t realize it. There are also the billions of dollars that the fed made off of the bail out of certain companies that was not even a blip on the media radar when those loans were paid in full plus interest. Not that I’m a bleeding heart for those businesses, but the only story people got was a number like $850.00 for every man woman and child in the US to pay for the Tarp 1,2,3…
As for the minimum, I’ve never heard of any small business owner (except Zeb) who didn’t cry poor mouth on the way to the bank. I don’t think I’ve ever made minimum wage but I think it’s just rude. Nothing says “I’d pay you less, but it’s illegal.” like minimum wage. Companies like Wal-Mart should be embarrassed. They’ve done great things with streamlining supply chain and economy of scale, so I have a hard time believing that they can’t develop some innovative solution to paying people a little better.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I have a hard time believing that they can’t develop some innovative solution to paying people a little better.
[/quote]
there is no incentive , their pay is just their philosophy , labor is just a commodity to exploit just like their purchasing of mercantile is to get it as cheap as possible . It does not matter who they put out of business, what working conditions exist . It is all about the Benjamins
The schtick about raising the minimum wage will only raise the cost of goods .
It does nothing to address all the other goods and salaries that have sky rocketed with the exception of Labor.
I have never been paid Minimum wage either . But You can see the path that it would take . If your job requires so expertise and requires a responsible administrator than it would have to compete with those jobs you could get with neither expertise or responsibility .
It would boost the economy not as in trickle down but to flood up
I can’t find who mentioned Australia but in another post I already discussed evidence that Australia has similar poverty rates as the US. Yeah, the minimum wage in Australia is $12/hour, but when everything costs twice as much as it does in the US, $12/hour doesn’t go very far. We have people complaining about an hour commute in the States. One of the companies I used to audit in Sydney had nearly half it’s office traveling 2 hours EACH WAY b/c they couldn’t afford to live anywhere near Sydney. And they were making like $40k/year.
And to address the proposed Maximum Wage for the Swiss. Europe in general has a propensity of keeping salaries in check. The ratio of Average CEO pay compared to the average employee’s pay is 1/2 to 1/6 that of the US. That being said, a significant portion of European company expenses is associated with social programs so that is probably not included in the average employee compensation. Take that one step further, that means the average employee in Europe is compensated more outside of salaries and given there is less money in the bottom line, the executives tend to get paid less than the US. At first glance, it looks like companies are just more fair in Europe, but in reality, the government just takes more from them and spreads the wealth.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
As for the minimum, I’ve never heard of any small business owner (except Zeb) who didn’t cry poor mouth on the way to the bank. I don’t think I’ve ever made minimum wage but I think it’s just rude. Nothing says “I’d pay you less, but it’s illegal.” like minimum wage. Companies like Wal-Mart should be embarrassed. They’ve done great things with streamlining supply chain and economy of scale, so I have a hard time believing that they can’t develop some innovative solution to paying people a little better.
[/quote]
You want to know how I know you’ve never ran a business or been in a significant management position in any of the places you’ve been employed?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
:)[/quote]
This is drivel. Therefore lazy thinkers will eat it up. Congrats
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
:)[/quote]
This is drivel. Therefore lazy thinkers will eat it up. Congrats[/quote]
yeah we all know what a great mind you have
