[quote]NateOrade wrote:
Raw Milk rules, keep drinking it.[/quote]
Fixed.
[quote]Seinix wrote:
ronaldo7 wrote:
Seinix wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
Seinix wrote:
Basically we are in a state of, albeit mild, chronic acidosis. This leads to: muscle wasting, bone loss, and altered hormonal profile
I drink lots of milk all day and my muscles love it, my bones are fine, and I’ve got a semi right now.
In response to this I would like to make a few points:
-
If you replaced the milk with other food, with equal amount of calories, protein, etc., how do you know that you wouldn’t be making better progress?
-
How do you know your bones are fine? Just because they don’t hurt doesn’t mean they are in perfect health.
-
If it ain’t broken then don’t fix it.
-
do you wake up every morning and look at your skin and say " it looks healthy but there most be something wrong with it". As long as you are getting check ups why should you worry about it. Everyone would be miserable if it was done this way since most things in our body look fairly healthy.
-
That is the most retarded piece of advice in this whole post. That is like the following conversation:
Bob: “Dude, over the past year I gained 0.75 lbs of lean mass!”
Joe: “Uhhh, that’s not much to be proud of. This past year I gained 12 lbs of lean mass. Maybe you should try changing your diet or training program.”
Bob: “Shut up, dude. I do what works for me, OK? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
-
Do you honestly believe that getting check-ups 2x a year will guarantee you are in good health? Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that every time you go for a check-up, and just because your doctor says you are OK, that you are in perfect health with not one problems? Do you know how many problems a doctor can miss, let alone in a simple check-up?
If doctors caught all our problems we wouldn’t have cases of people coming in with cancer in the accelerated stage, we wouldn’t have cases of people coming in with AIDS in its active stage. If you think that seeing a doctor is enough than you are a fool, sorry.[/quote] -
That is a whole other situation. If you want muscle and alot of it and milk is helping you do that then why would you change it.
-
You proved my point. What the fuck do we do then?..do we live paranoid for the rest of our lives thinking about what could be wrong with our bodies eventhough we look healthy and get check-ups e.t.c…you seem like the type that believes to have a disease yet is in perfect health…heck there can be many things wrong in a human body and I don’t think drinking milk will cause any of them.
[quote]Seinix wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
Seinix wrote:
Basically we are in a state of, albeit mild, chronic acidosis. This leads to: muscle wasting, bone loss, and altered hormonal profile
I drink lots of milk all day and my muscles love it, my bones are fine, and I’ve got a semi right now.
In response to this I would like to make a few points:
-
If you replaced the milk with other food, with equal amount of calories, protein, etc., how do you know that you wouldn’t be making better progress?
-
How do you know your bones are fine? Just because they don’t hurt doesn’t mean they are in perfect health.
[/quote]
The recommended 3 servings a day is going to cause chronic acidosis and bone loss? Where are we supposed to make up the calcium if we don’t drink it?
If I see any more milk paranoia on this forum, I think I’m going to drive the wrong way in traffic tomorrow.
I will agree with Seinix on this. To answer the question on alternate calcium sources vegtables would fit the bill. Remember it is not the amount of Calcium that is ingested but, rather the amount retained. This is determined by acid load. If you take 1 step forward and two steps back you are still walking backwards. I think what he is saying is replacing the kcals from other food sources my at the least give you the same results and likely result in not only better long term health but better net gains.
[quote]Seinix wrote:
- That is the most retarded piece of advice in this whole post. That is like the following conversation:
Bob: “Dude, over the past year I gained 0.75 lbs of lean mass!”
Joe: “Uhhh, that’s not much to be proud of. This past year I gained 12 lbs of lean mass. Maybe you should try changing your diet or training program.”
Bob: “Shut up, dude. I do what works for me, OK? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
[/quote]
What the fuck are you talking about? The calories and protein from milk has been very helpful in my progress. I have experienced zero negative side effects. How the fuck does that stupid conversation in any way relate to drinking milk?
[quote]laroyal wrote:
I will agree with Seinix on this. To answer the question on alternate calcium sources vegtables would fit the bill. Remember it is not the amount of Calcium that is ingested but, rather the amount retained. This is determined by acid load. If you take 1 step forward and two steps back you are still walking backwards. I think what he is saying is replacing the kcals from other food sources my at the least give you the same results and likely result in not only better long term health but better net gains.
[/quote]
Which is why just about every successful bodybuilder past and present has advised not to drink milk…oh wait it’s the opposite.
[quote]NateOrade wrote:
Seinix wrote:
- That is the most retarded piece of advice in this whole post. That is like the following conversation:
Bob: “Dude, over the past year I gained 0.75 lbs of lean mass!”
Joe: “Uhhh, that’s not much to be proud of. This past year I gained 12 lbs of lean mass. Maybe you should try changing your diet or training program.”
Bob: “Shut up, dude. I do what works for me, OK? If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
What the fuck are you talking about? The calories and protein from milk has been very helpful in my progress. I have experienced zero negative side effects. How the fuck does that stupid conversation in any way relate to drinking milk?[/quote]
OK, that was probably a bad example and I didn’t mean to offend you. But, I was referring to ronaldo7’s post. When I suggested trying to replace milk with other foods and see if you got any better progress, he replied with “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.
What the heck? If we took that approach to everything in bodybuilding, how would we ever get better? Why is anyone with that kind of mentality even on this forum, trying to get advice and gain knowledge? I am just trying to make a suggestion to at least try what I am saying and see what happens. In bodybuilding (or any fitness-related activity for that matter), IMO, we strive not only for good results, but optimal results. If you disagree with me, and would rather keep a closed mind and not ever try anything new, that is fine. We are each entitled our own opinion.
It isn’t just a matter of “if it aint broke, don’t fix it”. If someone else gave that reason, well I disagree with that as an explanation.
Milk is a PROVEN STAPLE of successful bodybuilding. There’s even a book written about how wonderful it is for gaining muscle: Super Squats.
Milk DOES get optimal results.
[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The recommended 3 servings a day is going to cause chronic acidosis and bone loss? Where are we supposed to make up the calcium if we don’t drink it?
[/quote]
nuts, seeds, fruits, veggies
[quote]Seinix wrote:
robo1 wrote:
Seinix wrote:
milk has its advantages and disadvantages…Personally I believe that it is only appropriate for peri/post workout nutrition. Drinking an excess of milk is very unhealthy and should be avoided.
If you want studies/reasons, I will be happy to provide them…
please share your wisdom
OK, first lets examine milk: it contains carbohydrates (lactose) and protein (casein/whey). Although its a lower GI carbohydrate source, lactose is still highly insulinogenic. Hence, why it could have its place in post-workout nutrition.
However, we want to create insulin spikes when it is optimal to do so. The two times where insulin spikes are useful is in the morning (why we have a high-carb breakfast) and post-workout (why we have a high-carb shake).
The purpose of this is to, of course, restore depleted glycogen levels. We DO NOT want to be creating constant insulin surges throughout the day, so appropriately we should not be drinking milk throughout the whole day. Continuing to do so could possibly alter insulin sensitivity levels for the worse. As we all know, insulin is a tricky bastard, and often times insulin resistance can lead to certain problems with fat storage/loss.
Also, milk is slightly acidic. Looking at some of the amounts of milk people drink in this thread, that is bad news. As a result of drinking so much milk, we end up taking in more dietary acids than bases. So basically we start ending up in a chronic level of high acidity.
Well, since the body must, at all costs, operate at a stable pH, any dietary acid load has to be neutralized by one of a number of homeostatic base-producing mechanisms. So, although the pH of the body is maintained and your blood tests turn out fine, many cells of the body will suffer. Here are some of the most severe consequences of your body’s attempt to maintain a constant pH in the face of an acidic environment:
- Hypercalciuria (high concentrations of calcium in the urine)
- Negative nitrogen balance (high concentrations of nitrogen in urine)
- Decreased IGF-1 activity
- GH resistance
- Mild Hypothyroidism
- Hypercortesolemia
Basically we are in a state of, albeit mild, chronic acidosis. This leads to: muscle wasting, bone loss, and altered hormonal profile
[/quote]
sorry for the mix up, this is the post I was agreeing with
[quote]NateOrade wrote:
It isn’t just a matter of “if it aint broke, don’t fix it”. If someone else gave that reason, well I disagree with that as an explanation.
Milk is a PROVEN STAPLE of successful bodybuilding. There’s even a book written about how wonderful it is for gaining muscle: Super Squats.
Milk DOES get optimal results.[/quote]
You are trying to avoid the fact that Super Squats is aimed at a target audience who:
a) have not trained with weights seriously, have never trained legs, or have never done squats.
b) Are probably not eating properly. Milk is suggested because its an easy way for newbies to get in extra calories. I remember that Super Squats basically advises to eat like a horse.
Of course people will gain off such a program, when other areas of their lifestyle (rest/diet/training) were not in check. Its not rocket science. They could have gained just as easily if they just ate more food (notice how I said ate, not drank) and did the program.
Anyway, I prefer not to continue arguing like a buffoon, so here is what I was actually wanted to say:
If you are going to claim that you get optimal results by drinking milk, without even trying my suggestion, then the discussion ends here.
I’m tired of trying to convince someone who refuses to listen and and least try what I am saying. If you still insist that you are right, and continue to ignore: the advice I have given you, the research and facts I provided in my previous post, plus this paper conducted by Dr. John Berardi (http://www.precisionnutrition.com/strategies.pdf, pages 12-15), than I will end my participation in this thread with this post. I can see that no matter what I say you will just insist that I am wrong.
If you instead decide to try what I am saying, than keep us posted on your progress. Anybody who has questions please PM me.
Good luck
[quote]Seinix wrote:
You are trying to avoid the fact that Super Squats is aimed at a target audience who:
a) have not trained with weights seriously, have never trained legs, or have never done squats.
b) Are probably not eating properly. Milk is suggested because its an easy way for newbies to get in extra calories. I remember that Super Squats basically advises to eat like a horse.
Of course people will gain off such a program, when other areas of their lifestyle (rest/diet/training) were not in check. Its not rocket science. They could have gained just as easily if they just ate more food (notice how I said ate, not drank) and did the program.
[/quote]
I’m trying to avoid something about a book I happened to mention? Where did you get the idea the book is aimed at people who have never trained their legs, done squats, or have not trained with weights seriously?
Is this part of the marketing plan behind the book that I am unaware of? It’s a book on BODYBUILDING that is one of many citing the virtues of milk for gaining muscular weight.
If Berardi happened to write something bad about milk, I have to wonder about how he gained muscle the quickest - and as I recall he did so drinking lots of MILK and protein powder along with eating lots of bagels and peanut butter on top of his usual diet.
I’ll take what actually built his body up rather than what he happens to be writing about now.
[quote]Seinix wrote:
NateOrade wrote:
It isn’t just a matter of “if it aint broke, don’t fix it”. If someone else gave that reason, well I disagree with that as an explanation.
Milk is a PROVEN STAPLE of successful bodybuilding. There’s even a book written about how wonderful it is for gaining muscle: Super Squats.
Milk DOES get optimal results.
You are trying to avoid the fact that Super Squats is aimed at a target audience who:
a) have not trained with weights seriously, have never trained legs, or have never done squats.
b) Are probably not eating properly. Milk is suggested because its an easy way for newbies to get in extra calories. I remember that Super Squats basically advises to eat like a horse.
Of course people will gain off such a program, when other areas of their lifestyle (rest/diet/training) were not in check. Its not rocket science. They could have gained just as easily if they just ate more food (notice how I said ate, not drank) and did the program.
Anyway, I prefer not to continue arguing like a buffoon, so here is what I was actually wanted to say:
If you are going to claim that you get optimal results by drinking milk, without even trying my suggestion, then the discussion ends here.
I’m tired of trying to convince someone who refuses to listen and and least try what I am saying. If you still insist that you are right, and continue to ignore: the advice I have given you, the research and facts I provided in my previous post, plus this paper conducted by Dr. John Berardi (www.precisionnutrition.com/strategies.pdf, pages 12-15), than I will end my participation in this thread with this post. I can see that no matter what I say you will just insist that I am wrong.
If you instead decide to try what I am saying, than keep us posted on your progress. Anybody who has questions please PM me.
Good luck[/quote]
Back before their was all this “great science” and super supplements… some of the strongest legends of the iron game built their massive strength and great physiques of the time with tried and true RAW milk and that is a FACT, JACK!
The only thing that really matters is empirical evidence aka real world results… and if RAW MILK does that (which it does awesomely especially for bulk cycles - perhaps not so much for cuttinng)… thats all that really matters.