Militant Mexican Racism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

Excerpt’s from the Mexican Constitution.

  • Pursuant to Article 33, “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.” This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.

  • Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable.”

  • Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered “indispensable” include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

  • Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be “a Mexican citizen by birth.” Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.

In accordance with Article 130, immigrants - even legal ones - may not become members of the clergy.

  • Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters.”

  • Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.” What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

  • The Mexican constitution states that foreigners - not just illegal immigrants - may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, “the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.”

Published by-- The Center For Security Policy

42

OK, dude, time for some levity:

Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Obviously not INCOME taxes, because they’re being paid under the table, but if there WEREN’T being paid under the table, it’s not like they make enough money to have to pay taxes anyways - they’d get a full refund. When I say they DO pay taxes, I mean Sales tax, and any levies on any specific products, like Gasoline, or Cigarettes. Illegal immigrants pick our fruit, cook our burritos, and make all those upper middle class houses’ gardens look spectacular.

OVERALL, we BENEFIT from the cheap labor. Paying for their children to be born safe and healthy in a clean hospital is a small price to pay.

Granted, illegal immigration DOES negatively impact the poorest segment of the populatioin, but A, since when does the government care about them, and B, if we had proper social welfare programs set up, this would be a NON-issue, and C, that poor segment of the population won’t do the work that illegal immigrants do ANYWAYS, unless they get benefits and higher wages.

It’s really not that big of a deal; it doesn’t cost us much (a drop in the bucket compared to military spending), we get a TREMENDOUS benefit from it, and a guest worker program would solve the security risk inherent in illegal immigration.

so, why is everyone making such a big deal about this!?

43

[quote]knewsom wrote:
OK, dude, time for some levity:

Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Obviously not INCOME taxes, because they’re being paid under the table, but if there WEREN’T being paid under the table, it’s not like they make enough money to have to pay taxes anyways - they’d get a full refund. When I say they DO pay taxes, I mean Sales tax, and any levies on any specific products, like Gasoline, or Cigarettes. Illegal immigrants pick our fruit, cook our burritos, and make all those upper middle class houses’ gardens look spectacular.

OVERALL, we BENEFIT from the cheap labor. Paying for their children to be born safe and healthy in a clean hospital is a small price to pay.

Granted, illegal immigration DOES negatively impact the poorest segment of the populatioin, but A, since when does the government care about them, and B, if we had proper social welfare programs set up, this would be a NON-issue, and C, that poor segment of the population won’t do the work that illegal immigrants do ANYWAYS, unless they get benefits and higher wages.

It’s really not that big of a deal; it doesn’t cost us much (a drop in the bucket compared to military spending), we get a TREMENDOUS benefit from it, and a guest worker program would solve the security risk inherent in illegal immigration.

so, why is everyone making such a big deal about this!?[/quote]

I would challenge you to run a Landscaping Co. or a Janitorial service that does not require contractor?s license, and do it all legal. There are illegals that make a lot of money. One thing possible to do would be tax Western Union?s money transfers out of the country.

44

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
knewsom wrote:
OK, dude, time for some levity:

Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Obviously not INCOME taxes, because they’re being paid under the table, but if there WEREN’T being paid under the table, it’s not like they make enough money to have to pay taxes anyways - they’d get a full refund. When I say they DO pay taxes, I mean Sales tax, and any levies on any specific products, like Gasoline, or Cigarettes. Illegal immigrants pick our fruit, cook our burritos, and make all those upper middle class houses’ gardens look spectacular.

OVERALL, we BENEFIT from the cheap labor. Paying for their children to be born safe and healthy in a clean hospital is a small price to pay.

Granted, illegal immigration DOES negatively impact the poorest segment of the populatioin, but A, since when does the government care about them, and B, if we had proper social welfare programs set up, this would be a NON-issue, and C, that poor segment of the population won’t do the work that illegal immigrants do ANYWAYS, unless they get benefits and higher wages.

It’s really not that big of a deal; it doesn’t cost us much (a drop in the bucket compared to military spending), we get a TREMENDOUS benefit from it, and a guest worker program would solve the security risk inherent in illegal immigration.

so, why is everyone making such a big deal about this!?

I would challenge you to run a Landscaping Co. or a Janitorial service that does not require contractor?s license, and do it all legal. There are illegals that make a lot of money. One thing possible to do would be tax Western Union?s money transfers out of the country.

[/quote]

perhaps the people RUNNING the landscaping companies are making tons of dough, but trust me, they’re both legal and taxpaying. it’s the “private contractor” employees they have that are the illegals, and they don’t make a lot of money.

45

[quote]knewsom wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
knewsom wrote:
OK, dude, time for some levity:

Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Obviously not INCOME taxes, because they’re being paid under the table, but if there WEREN’T being paid under the table, it’s not like they make enough money to have to pay taxes anyways - they’d get a full refund. When I say they DO pay taxes, I mean Sales tax, and any levies on any specific products, like Gasoline, or Cigarettes. Illegal immigrants pick our fruit, cook our burritos, and make all those upper middle class houses’ gardens look spectacular.

OVERALL, we BENEFIT from the cheap labor. Paying for their children to be born safe and healthy in a clean hospital is a small price to pay.

Granted, illegal immigration DOES negatively impact the poorest segment of the populatioin, but A, since when does the government care about them, and B, if we had proper social welfare programs set up, this would be a NON-issue, and C, that poor segment of the population won’t do the work that illegal immigrants do ANYWAYS, unless they get benefits and higher wages.

It’s really not that big of a deal; it doesn’t cost us much (a drop in the bucket compared to military spending), we get a TREMENDOUS benefit from it, and a guest worker program would solve the security risk inherent in illegal immigration.

so, why is everyone making such a big deal about this!?

I would challenge you to run a Landscaping Co. or a Janitorial service that does not require contractor?s license, and do it all legal. There are illegals that make a lot of money. One thing possible to do would be tax Western Union?s money transfers out of the country.

perhaps the people RUNNING the landscaping companies are making tons of dough, but trust me, they’re both legal and taxpaying. it’s the “private contractor” employees they have that are the illegals, and they don’t make a lot of money.[/quote]

I disagree there are a lot of companies that are run by illegal residents, in every vocation from Landscaping, Janitorial and all the trades of construction. Just to mention a few.

46

I’ll certainly concur that there are plenty of illegal immigrants WORKING in the industries you mentioned, but for a company to have ANY kind of viability, it needs to have a tax ID so it can issue valid recepits so that customers can use the expense as a deductable on their taxes, and therefore must be owned/run by a legal resident at the bare minimum. Perhaps there are some VERY small companies operating on the fringes that are NOT legal, but they’re not in the phonebook, they don’t issue recepits, they work in cash transactions, and they don’t do a whole lot of high paying business.

47

[quote]knewsom wrote:
I’ll certainly concur that there are plenty of illegal immigrants WORKING in the industries you mentioned, but for a company to have ANY kind of viability, it needs to have a tax ID so it can issue valid recepits so that customers can use the expense as a deductable on their taxes, and therefore must be owned/run by a legal resident at the bare minimum. Perhaps there are some VERY small companies operating on the fringes that are NOT legal, but they’re not in the phonebook, they don’t issue recepits, they work in cash transactions, and they don’t do a whole lot of high paying business.[/quote]

That is why I said anything below a Contractor, where Licensing is required. All you have to do is collect your 1099 and trash them. It is only a misdemeanor not to file taxes. As far as the Contractors of those industries, I am sure most of them are aware that to be competitive they must at least pay Illegal wages .Which is greater than minimum wage but it is far below livable wage.
If I had a bank account in a foreign country and did not have to worry about credit scores and I could change my I.D. on a whim I could compete in an illegal world.

48

IMOHO anyone who is not a native american decends from people who had the same aspirations of improving their lives. This truly applies to those who are decendants of Irish, Italian or other European ancestry and came to this country without visas, yes they were allowed into the country, but only because the rich factory workers manipulated the polititians into letting them in because they needed cheap labor.

However, the same anti-immigrant sentiment was around and the average WASP wanted these groups out. The English didnt even care what kind of laws the native americans had. Yes you can argue that this was eons ago, but it bothers me how a lot of people who can now reap the benefits from their immigrant relatives who came without visas to benefit from a program that allowed them to work, one as such as the one being proposed now.

49

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:

  1. Why should the US government allow Illegal Aliens to be selective about the laws that they follow? They broke the law when they came here in the first place.

  2. Why should some one that is here illegally be entitled to government programs? i.e. public schools, welfare, medical care

  3. What would happen if they devoted all this energy and hard work into their homeland rather than a country that they just want to take advantage of?

I do not have a problem with someone that comes here legally. Come here attempt to become part of the America (diverse) culture and a productive member of society. My problem is when people come here illegally, use our services, don?t pay taxes for those services and don?t attempt to learn the language and become part of society. Why should my tax money go to pay for medical care, welfare or schools for illegal immigrants?

I don?t have a problem helping people, but let it be my choice. Instead I pay taxes to allow illegal aliens to come here for a better life, send money back home and burden our communities with crowded schools and unemployment. The other part that ticks me off is they protest. They have no right to protest. This is not your land. Some of it you sold the rest you lost in war. Right or wrong it is ours now. It is a different time.

Even if I would have to pay more for services to have Americas or legal immigrants fill the jobs that illegals take, it would be worth it. Think of what that would do to our economy. Lower unemployment rates, lower tax burden, higher minimum wage, having an idea of who is in our country; can you imagine? I don?t see a positive side for having them here. If we do not come up with a solution that improves national security and puts their money back into our society America will fall. It will be eaten alive from the inside out.

IMHO

Me Solomon Grundy
[/quote]

Violence is necessary. We should be going with my ideas discussed above. My favorite fantasy idea is a labor camp on that border. So if some mestizo comes across, an army officer can proudly offer them work. “You want to build our country and remain illegal , go ahead!” Then the army officer leads the illegal to the big gate in front of the camp with a swift kick to the backside. Then he slams that gate behind him or her! Haha!

Gallows are also another good idea. These examples of hanging illegals would send them running the other way?in no time. I am also for shoot-to-kill action on that border. With this line of action, the border problem would be over in weeks or months.

A courtroom could be built on the border as well. Nothing fancy, maybe just a shitty little room. Then all these illegals can be judged and condemned right then and there.

A mass round up and deportation program would be great as well. I am talking going through illegal ridden neighborhoods such as Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, Brentwood (LI), Farmingville (LI) and going where all the day laborers gather and just simply packing them into buses. From there, they could all be shipped to one meeting place where huge buses and trains come through and send them right back to the border. Breaking down some doors and hunting some down on the street would be good too.

50

You people fucking disgust me. I’m ashamed to share my country with you.

gallows… labor camps. Go back to Germany you fucking nazi bastards!

51

[quote]knewsom wrote:
You people fucking disgust me. I’m ashamed to share my country with you.

gallows… labor camps. Go back to Germany you fucking nazi bastards![/quote]

What on earth does this have to do with Nazi Germany. I just happen to think violence is necessary to solve the border problem.

52

“And although I have relatives who died in WW2 because of Nazism, I say, yes it was terrible and it happened. But I also realize that other people have been through holocausts: Ukrainians, Poles, Armenians, Serbians, Chinese, and yes, even Germans, etc. Yet, to this day, I see them as recognizing their own sad past and MOVING ON!”

This was posted in the “Dying for Isreal” thread, by the same guy whose “fantasy” is gallows at the border and concentration camps for mestizos (my fantasy, on the other hand, wouldn’t belong in the forum at all)

So would a holocaust for the Mexicans and mestizos living in the U.S. be moving on? I hate to see this attitude - it shows a complete lack of understanding of the history of Latin America and US-Latin American relations.

I find charges that Mexicans are invading the US absurd. And 160 years ago most of the land they are “invading” was part of Mexico. Just because the border changes doesn’t mean that the entire population of Mexicans living there moved south. There are plenty of people in the US that are descendents of these Mexicans that are legal citizens.

The Mexican-American War, even though it’s a footnote in US history classes, is a major event in Mexican history. Here’s an example: Several Mexican cadets were killed defending their military academy during the war.

Today they each have a huge monument in Mexico City. Every Thursday, when the Mexican cadets parade, their commadant calls out the names of the cadets that were killed by American soldiers, and all the cadets shout “died in the defense of his country.” Basically, what a lot of Americans don’t know even happened, has shaped Mexican perceptions of the US.

The US invaded Mexico two more times. It has overthrown several progressive democratically elected governments in Latin America and has propped up many, many military dictatorships. There have been US military interventions to protect US business interests (United Fruit etc), fight commies, drugs, and now terrorists. Again these are things that the average American doesn’t know,
that people from the affected countries do.

Mestizos have a completely different history with the US than the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc, so why should we expect the same attitudes and behavior?

53

[quote]usma2006 wrote:
…
I find charges that Mexicans are invading the US absurd. And 160 years ago most of the land they are “invading” was part of Mexico. Just because the border changes doesn’t mean that the entire population of Mexicans living there moved south. There are plenty of people in the US that are descendents of these Mexicans that are legal citizens.
[/quote]

They are Americans. Not Mexican. Just the same way I am American and not German.

The US takeover of Mexican territory was the best thing to happen in those lands.

There are reasons people are fleeing Mexico to the US.

Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.

54

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
DR. J wrote:
IMOHO anyone who is not a native american decends from people who had the same aspirations of improving their lives. This truly applies to those who are decendants of Irish, Italian or other European ancestry and came to this country without visas, yes they were allowed into the country, but only because the rich factory workers manipulated the polititians into letting them in because they needed cheap labor.

However, the same anti-immigrant sentiment was around and the average WASP wanted these groups out. The English didnt even care what kind of laws the native americans had. Yes you can argue that this was eons ago, but it bothers me how a lot of people who can now reap the benefits from their immigrant relatives who came without visas to benefit from a program that allowed them to work, one as such as the one being proposed now.

Do you notice any similarities between English, Italians, Irish, Germans, and Poles, people who came here in the ol’ days and why these similarities might have been just a tad more conducive to these people getting along together, rather than the out right, defiant, militant, belligerent, hateful attitudes of Mexicans and other mestizos who are invading (no, they were not invited like the Irish were) this country and sometimes HATE the people of the country they are invading?
[/quote]
It took several generations for these groups to assimilate. Besides, the civil right movements of the 60’s opened the door to more vocal and militant protests. Very few groups protested loudly and militantly before the 60’s. Also, all of the groups you mention had their own neighbourhoods back in the day, not ulike the barrios of today, loaded with non engllish signs, their coutry’s flags and lots of national pride. The same things said today about “non-assimilating” immigrants were said years ago about these groups.

55

[quote]knewsom wrote:

Illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. Obviously not INCOME taxes, because they’re being paid under the table, but if there WEREN’T being paid under the table, it’s not like they make enough money to have to pay taxes anyways - they’d get a full refund. When I say they DO pay taxes, I mean Sales tax, and any levies on any specific products, like Gasoline, or Cigarettes. Illegal immigrants pick our fruit, cook our burritos, and make all those upper middle class houses’ gardens look spectacular.

OVERALL, we BENEFIT from the cheap labor. Paying for their children to be born safe and healthy in a clean hospital is a small price to pay.

Granted, illegal immigration DOES negatively impact the poorest segment of the populatioin, but A, since when does the government care about them, and B, if we had proper social welfare programs set up, this would be a NON-issue, and C, that poor segment of the population won’t do the work that illegal immigrants do ANYWAYS, unless they get benefits and higher wages.
[/quote]
Ah, I get it… so your point is: Yeah, they’re hurting the economy and legitimate citizens by driving down the cost of cheap labor – but no legal citizen would want to do the work anyway because – of the cheap labor cost! GASP! This seems almost like… they’re… connected in some way!

Get a a clue, dude. Of course no legal US citizen wants to do the work, because the freakin’ wage it so low! Now, we have a big problem in this nation with the inequality between socioeconomic strata – with a growing number of Americans falling below the poverty line.

So, you’re arguing that we shouldn’t be angry about the problem of increasing cheap labor coming from illegals? AND your rhetoric even extends to the statement that " the government doesn’t care about them anyway." WELL, that just makes it fine and dandy, doesn’t it, Kanye? Does George Bush hate poor people, too?

[quote]
It’s really not that big of a deal; it doesn’t cost us much (a drop in the bucket compared to military spending), we get a TREMENDOUS benefit from it, and a guest worker program would solve the security risk inherent in illegal immigration.

so, why is everyone making such a big deal about this!?[/quote]

Yep. Allowing illegal immigrants to flood into our country (with none leaving, of course - - so your argument that they’re helping the economy is someday going to be moot), demand social services, demand the right to vote, get fake social security cards, work for untaxable money under the table, benefit from our school systems, etc etc… is much more helpful than all that money we’re pouring into that pesky thing called Military spending.

I KNOW… why don’t we sell all the F-18’s to Iran for money to pay for bilingual schools and clinics? Oh wait, or we could use to pay for these proper “social welfare programs” that you mentioned above. Jeez, if only we had less military and MORE social welfare programs for illegals. FREE healthcare, schooling, parks systems, food – for everyone! Regardless of what country you come from. We’ll even find you a job!

… yep, that’ll solve the problem.

56

[quote]NorskGoddess wrote:
… if only we had less military and MORE social welfare programs for illegals. FREE healthcare, schooling, parks systems, food – for everyone! Regardless of what country you come from. We’ll even find you a job!

… yep, that’ll solve the problem.
[/quote]

Boy, that would keep them out for sure.

Maybe if we handed out money at the border no one would dare enter our country.

57

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.
[/quote]

If Mexico was so corrupt and evil, shouldn’t all these illegal immigrants be granted refugee status?

58

[quote]NorskGoddess wrote:
Ah, I get it… so your point is: Yeah, they’re hurting the economy and legitimate citizens by driving down the cost of cheap labor – but no legal citizen would want to do the work anyway because – of the cheap labor cost! GASP! This seems almost like… they’re… connected in some way!

Get a a clue, dude. Of course no legal US citizen wants to do the work, because the freakin’ wage it so low! Now, we have a big problem in this nation with the inequality between socioeconomic strata – with a growing number of Americans falling below the poverty line.

So, you’re arguing that we shouldn’t be angry about the problem of increasing cheap labor coming from illegals? AND your rhetoric even extends to the statement that " the government doesn’t care about them anyway." WELL, that just makes it fine and dandy, doesn’t it, Kanye? Does George Bush hate poor people, too?

Yep. Allowing illegal immigrants to flood into our country (with none leaving, of course - - so your argument that they’re helping the economy is someday going to be moot), demand social services, demand the right to vote, get fake social security cards, work for untaxable money under the table, benefit from our school systems, etc etc… is much more helpful than all that money we’re pouring into that pesky thing called Military spending.

I KNOW… why don’t we sell all the F-18’s to Iran for money to pay for bilingual schools and clinics? Oh wait, or we could use to pay for these proper “social welfare programs” that you mentioned above. Jeez, if only we had less military and MORE social welfare programs for illegals. FREE healthcare, schooling, parks systems, food – for everyone! Regardless of what country you come from. We’ll even find you a job!

… yep, that’ll solve the problem.
[/quote]

You totally missed my point, and made a few incorrect assumptions. Let’s start with the socioeconomic strata - this is NOT a new problem, and it’s NOT becaue of illegal immigration - don’t oversimplify things. Poverty has been a VERY real problem in this country for quite a long time - and it’s not just limited to Chicanos.

In fact, I’d be willing to bet that there are nearly as many African Americans living in poverty as there are Hispanics. And while I don’t think Bush HATES them (donno where the hell you got THAT from), I certainly don’t think he really gives a shit about poor people.

When I said we all benefit, I meant specifically that we benefit from inexpensive produce, good lawn care, and bomb-ass $5 burritos. Keep in mind, the VAST MAJORITY of Latinos living in the USA are either CITIZENS OR LEGAL RESIDENTS.

What we NEED to do (and this is like, the ONLY thing I agree with Bush on) is establish a guest worker program that can allow for people to come and do the jobs that nobody else will.

You made the assumption that these jobs pay so little that nobody would do them - what you failed to realize is that these jobs pay on the low side - about minimum wage - but it’s the WORK ITSELF that deters potential employees. 100+ degree heat, direct sun, bending over, picking fruit and veggies ALL DAMNED DAY. You really think America’s poverty stricken African American community wants those jobs? GET REAL.

You think white trash hillbillies want to do that job? GET REAL. NOBODY wants to do that job, and the only reason anybody DOES it, is because they have few other options.

A guest worker program would allow us to maintain an inexpensive labor pool that does NOT consist of permanent residents - legislation that makes it a federal offense to HELP SOMEONE IN NEED is just plain immoral. If people jump ship from the guest worker program, they’ll have a harder time finding a job because they won’t have the paperwork for it - fake social security cards aren’t cheap and readily available, contrary to popular belief.

Wake up, Norsk. Illegal immigration is older than the nation. You really think the natives WANTED all us crazy white people to come over here? Get real.

I’m sick and fucking tired of all this racist bullshit wrapped up in the guise of economics and national security. This is almost EXACTLY the rhetoric used by the Nazis pre-WWII.

59

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.

If Mexico was so corrupt and evil, shouldn’t all these illegal immigrants be granted refugee status?[/quote]

If Mexico was communist they would.

In all fairness Fox was apparently elected fairly. I think this is his last year in office. They only get one term.

All other Mexican presidents were from one political party (PRI?) Fraudulent elections are commonplale throughout Mexico’s history.

I am not a student of Mexican politics but without question Mexico’s plice, courts and government are corrupt and have failed the Mexican people.

60

The more I hear about the guest worker programs in Europe and in parts of the Middle East the more I realize they are inherently racist and create second class citizens.

This is not what America is all about.

Improve border security. Deport the worst illegal immigrants. Grant amnesty for the best illegal immigrants.

Severly punish those that hire undocumented workers.

Allow more immigrants in the country legally.

This taking American money and shipping it back to Mexico bullshit has to stop. Amke it harder to do this.

If you want to move to America you have to commit to being an American.