Militant Mexican Racism

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
If Mexico was communist they would.

In all fairness Fox was apparently elected fairly. I think this is his last year in office. They only get one term.

All other Mexican presidents were from one political party (PRI?) Fraudulent elections are commonplale throughout Mexico’s history.

I am not a student of Mexican politics but without question Mexico’s plice, courts and government are corrupt and have failed the Mexican people.
[/quote]

I agree - Mexico is HORRIBLY corrupt. However, what’s worse? a corrupt capitalist government? or a communist government?

why should we only aid those who are fleeing the negative effects of communism? what about the negative effects of corruption?

62

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The more I hear about the guest worker programs in Europe and in parts of the Middle East the more I realize they are inherently racist and create second class citizens.

This is not what America is all about.

Improve border security. Deport the worst illegal immigrants. Grant amnesty for the best illegal immigrants.

Severly punish those that hire undocumented workers.

Allow more immigrants in the country legally.

This taking American money and shipping it back to Mexico bullshit has to stop. Amke it harder to do this.

If you want to move to America you have to commit to being an American.[/quote]

This sounds sensible, after how many pages of race baiting? Let more hardworking people into the country, work hard to keep the people who are problematic out.

Guest worker programs really do make a non citizen underclass, and there are problems associated with illegal immigration.

However, its not really these people’s fault. They’re just trying to make the best live’s for themselves and their famillies. I bet very few are militant or racist.

There is a lot of race baiting to this, it gets people mad, it gets CNN and Lou Dobbs ratings and it gets senators votes, as well as attention off a Republican congress that is fiding itself in a big corruption problem.

Big business likes illegals and as that is, no meaningful legislation is likely to get passed.

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[quote]knewsom wrote:
…

I agree - Mexico is HORRIBLY corrupt. However, what’s worse? a corrupt capitalist government? or a communist government?
[/quote]

The government that points or allies itself with a government that points nukes at us.

[quote]
why should we only aid those who are fleeing the negative effects of communism? what about the negative effects of corruption?[/quote]

We shouldn’t. We should help those that are willing to flee Mexico and commit to becoming Americans, not just come here and send money back to Mexico.

64

[quote]knewsom wrote:
I’m sick and fucking tired of all this racist bullshit wrapped up in the guise of economics and national security. This is almost EXACTLY the rhetoric used by the Nazis pre-WWII.[/quote]

When all else fails… just assert that your opponent has a “Nazi” mentality. Is this getting old to anyone else?

I’m sick and tired of being called names because I’m patriotic. When did spirited, full-throated patriotism make me a Nazi? It used to be an amazing thing to be an American… people were not afraid to proclaim that they lived in the best nation in the world, with the best economy, the most freedoms, the most … life to live.

NOW, students are being told by moronic politically correct teachers that – “no, you cannot be proud of this country; you can’t say that America is the best nation in the world.” All of a sudden nationalism is a dirty word. The connection between patriotism and Nazism gets closer with every nitwit I talk to.

Well, fuck that. I believe I live in the best damn country in the world. And I want to protect it. I want to protect my tax money, my schools, MY FREEDOMS that people died for.

Now, I know what you’re thinking… “The Nazis said the same thing.” YES, the Nationalist Socialist Workers Union Party used patriotism as their platform. Does that make patriotism wrong? Does it make me a genocidal racist because I want to keep others from breaking OUR laws? Because I want the government that I elect, and the law enforcement I pay taxes (income AND sales) for to enforce those laws?

Let’s get one thing straight… Nazis WERE racist. They wanted everyone of a CERTAIN ethnic and racial background exterminated. I don’t give a shit where illegal immigrants come from. They could come from Mexico, Poland, Germany, South Africa, Japan, Canada… it doesn’t matter. AND, as it has been said many times before… no one has any bone to pick with those who are legally coming to the US.

To me, this is not about race. You are making it about race. Am I saying I want all Hispanics declared illegal? Or only those coming here illegally that are Hispanic deported? THAT would be racism.

As to the statement about “the white people” coming here; this is also old and tired. Our population is growing exponentially in this country, as is the deficit, as we all know. At some point, quotas must be enforced. Other countries have them… and they enforce them. Can a French person just pick up and move to the US without a Visa or paperwork? Without a green card? No. Can we just move to France? No. Where do we draw the line? When you have enough people to make your “bomb-ass” burritos? When will the cheap labor market you speak of be saturated?

To me, patriotism and protection of American laws is not about race. It’s not about country of origin, or language, or skin color. And I’m sure most others agree. We are a country of diversity – so it would make no sense to exclude racial groups from our American melting pot. Please, don’t resort to making this racial; I’m certainly not.

“We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws.”

65

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The more I hear about the guest worker programs in Europe and in parts of the Middle East the more I realize they are inherently racist and create second class citizens.

This is not what America is all about.

Improve border security. Deport the worst illegal immigrants. Grant amnesty for the best illegal immigrants.

Severly punish those that hire undocumented workers.

Allow more immigrants in the country legally.

This taking American money and shipping it back to Mexico bullshit has to stop. Amke it harder to do this.

If you want to move to America you have to commit to being an American.[/quote]

Amen.

Here I am babbling on and on about patriotism, and Zap has much more succintly stated it all. :slight_smile:

66

Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here.

Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

67

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
knewsom wrote:
…

I agree - Mexico is HORRIBLY corrupt. However, what’s worse? a corrupt capitalist government? or a communist government?

The government that points or allies itself with a government that points nukes at us.

why should we only aid those who are fleeing the negative effects of communism? what about the negative effects of corruption?

We shouldn’t. We should help those that are willing to flee Mexico and commit to becoming Americans, not just come here and send money back to Mexico.
[/quote]

That sounds fine to me - I’m sure most would bring their families along with them if they could.

68

Norsk,

NOWHERE did I equate patriotism to Nazism. YOU drew that conclusion, not me.

Being a patriot is great. There are PLENTY of reasons to be proud of our country. But just because I’m critical of your views does NOT make me unpatriotic, nor does it give you the right to accuse me of attacking patriotism.

And I’m sorry, but all the talk of “rounding up Mezitos” and “labor camps” and “gallows at the border” (note they said THE border, not “the borders”) emminates racism. That’s what I mean when I cry “NAZI!” So to those that feel like that’s what should be done, that isn’t patriotism. It’s FASCISM.

I’m totally down to allow more immigration. I’m totally for national security. I’d rather allow more immigration and allow current illegal immigrants a path to legality than have a guest worker program - both illegalality and guest worker programs make for second class citizens. The Guest worker program is an OK comprimise, but if you’re so concerned about making people into second class citizens, don’t advocate building gallows and forced labor camps on the Mexico border.

Also, if you’re so opposed to seeing US money go overseas, maybe you should concentrate on keeping US busineses at home instead of seeing ther phone centers and major centers of operations outsourced to poorer countries, instead of attacking the illegal immigrants who are just trying to feed their families.

69

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
Solomon Grundy wrote:

  1. Why should the US government allow Illegal Aliens to be selective about the laws that they follow? They broke the law when they came here in the first place.

  2. Why should some one that is here illegally be entitled to government programs? i.e. public schools, welfare, medical care

  3. What would happen if they devoted all this energy and hard work into their homeland rather than a country that they just want to take advantage of?

I do not have a problem with someone that comes here legally. Come here attempt to become part of the America (diverse) culture and a productive member of society. My problem is when people come here illegally, use our services, don?t pay taxes for those services and don?t attempt to learn the language and become part of society. Why should my tax money go to pay for medical care, welfare or schools for illegal immigrants?

I don?t have a problem helping people, but let it be my choice. Instead I pay taxes to allow illegal aliens to come here for a better life, send money back home and burden our communities with crowded schools and unemployment. The other part that ticks me off is they protest. They have no right to protest. This is not your land. Some of it you sold the rest you lost in war. Right or wrong it is ours now. It is a different time.

Even if I would have to pay more for services to have Americas or legal immigrants fill the jobs that illegals take, it would be worth it. Think of what that would do to our economy. Lower unemployment rates, lower tax burden, higher minimum wage, having an idea of who is in our country; can you imagine? I don?t see a positive side for having them here. If we do not come up with a solution that improves national security and puts their money back into our society America will fall. It will be eaten alive from the inside out.

IMHO

Me Solomon Grundy

Violence is necessary. We should be going with my ideas discussed above. My favorite fantasy idea is a labor camp on that border. So if some mestizo comes across, an army officer can proudly offer them work. “You want to build our country and remain illegal , go ahead!” Then the army officer leads the illegal to the big gate in front of the camp with a swift kick to the backside. Then he slams that gate behind him or her! Haha!

Gallows are also another good idea. These examples of hanging illegals would send them running the other way?in no time. I am also for shoot-to-kill action on that border. With this line of action, the border problem would be over in weeks or months.

A courtroom could be built on the border as well. Nothing fancy, maybe just a shitty little room. Then all these illegals can be judged and condemned right then and there.

A mass round up and deportation program would be great as well. I am talking going through illegal ridden neighborhoods such as Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, Brentwood (LI), Farmingville (LI) and going where all the day laborers gather and just simply packing them into buses. From there, they could all be shipped to one meeting place where huge buses and trains come through and send them right back to the border. Breaking down some doors and hunting some down on the street would be good too.
[/quote]

It would work about as well as killing flies with a Shotgun. I think there are more humane ways to approach it.

70

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
My fantasy:
Gallows on the border.
The army stationed on the border.
A labor camp on the border with no wages paid (“you want to work, be my guest”; show them the entrance.)
A massive deportation program including a violent and aggressive plan of action (ie: breaking down doors, rounding illegals up, hunting them down like dogs on the street, herding them into greyhound buses and trains; shoot all who complain or resist)
This would solve our border problem in weeks.[/quote]

Yes, because it is so easy to find people with no documents.

71

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
knewsom wrote:
You people fucking disgust me. I’m ashamed to share my country with you.

gallows… labor camps. Go back to Germany you fucking nazi bastards!

What on earth does this have to do with Nazi Germany. I just happen to think violence is necessary to solve the border problem.[/quote]

I don’t even know if you are serious or not because all of your ideas are so childish and stupid.

72

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
The more I hear about the guest worker programs in Europe and in parts of the Middle East the more I realize they are inherently racist and create second class citizens.

This is not what America is all about.

Improve border security. Deport the worst illegal immigrants. Grant amnesty for the best illegal immigrants.

Severly punish those that hire undocumented workers.

Allow more immigrants in the country legally.

This taking American money and shipping it back to Mexico bullshit has to stop. Amke it harder to do this.

If you want to move to America you have to commit to being an American.[/quote]

Totally agree. Nice job. As long as you mean to punish those that KNOWINGLY hire undocumented immigrants.

73

[quote]
Zap Branigan wrote:
The more I hear about the guest worker programs in Europe and in parts of the Middle East the more I realize they are inherently racist and create second class citizens.

This is not what America is all about.

Improve border security. Deport the worst illegal immigrants. Grant amnesty for the best illegal immigrants.

Severly punish those that hire undocumented workers.

Allow more immigrants in the country legally.

This taking American money and shipping it back to Mexico bullshit has to stop. Amke it harder to do this.

If you want to move to America you have to commit to being an American.

PB Andy wrote:
Totally agree. Nice job. As long as you mean to punish those that KNOWINGLY hire undocumented immigrants.[/quote]

The solution is simple. Put the burden of verifying status on the employer, and create a safe harbor – i.e., if the employer establishes the SSN he gets is legit, and keeps the record of that, then he cannot be charged.

74

[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
PB Andy wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
knewsom wrote:
You people fucking disgust me. I’m ashamed to share my country with you.

gallows… labor camps. Go back to Germany you fucking nazi bastards!

What on earth does this have to do with Nazi Germany. I just happen to think violence is necessary to solve the border problem.

I don’t even know if you are serious or not because all of your ideas are so childish and stupid.

Yes, some of it was said in humor but I am also serious. I do not know how these are childish ideas considering these methods were used by grown men throughout history. Am I entitled to the opinion that I think MOST Mexicans, whether illegal or legal have very little to offer this country? Am I allowed that opinion? Am I allowed as a man to be discriminative and judgemental? Everyone on this board is discriminative and judgemental to a degree and perhaps more than most!

Consider the time when a poster by the name of J Boogie posted his pictures on here in the “Sex and the Male Animal” forum and in fact was judged, and mostly with negative judgement. All of you DISCRIMINATE as to where you live (and yes, where you live is dependent on race despite most of your mealy mouthed drivel on here; how many of you pure white blood people on here gladly and VOLUNTARILY live amongst blacks, Asians, and mixed races. And the ones amongst you who do not, how come you are not moving into non-white areas to speed up the diversity process?), who you screw and date, what you eat, what gym you join, who you befriend, if possible, where you work, what areas you dare to go or not go, etc.

Anyone who says they do not discriminate and judge in their daily lives is full of bologna! And yes, I will say it again, I feel the average Mexican, illegal and legal has VERY little to offer this country, one way or another.
And also, I want to know what is wrong with COLLECTIVE though. Last time I checked, TC and Chris Shugart judge and discriminate obese people and those ridden with vice (smoking, drinking, laziness, etc.) Just because these men do not openly state their thoughts on race, no one has a problem with it. But when someone as I speaks of race, even in neutral, true ways, I get slandered.

Yes, I was the guy who stated that he has relatives that he never met that perished due to Nazism. I have great uncles and aunts, and one grandparent who had to emigrate to Cuba because the Nazis invaded Poland. The ideology of Nazism involved conquering Eastern Europe and enslaving or killing the racial elements that existed in this territory (Slavs, Jews, Gypsies). What on earth does this have to do with me feeling that violence is necessary to keep illegal Mexicans from coming into this country. And not all of the people at the border are non-white! There have been Poles and Russians found at the border as well! I do not approve them coming to this country illegally despite the fact that I do think the average Pole or Russian has far more to offer this country than non-white South Americans. Yes, I said this and I am entitled to my opinions.

I really thought that T-Mag was so manly and hardcore until I found that opposing opinions and simply being opinionated (forming opinions from one’s knowledge and observation) was toleratede.
[/quote]

Your approach would create a lot of collateral damage. Not to mention political fallout.

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[quote]Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.

If Mexico was so corrupt and evil, shouldn’t all these illegal immigrants be granted refugee status?

Mexico is a squalor ridden country because of the people residing in this country that created their OWN squalor![/quote]

How do you feel about the Mexican race? You sound a little angry. I personally know a lot of Mexicans, I have dated a few Mexican Women .They are great people, very family oriented. I have been to Mexico several times, I love it. It has some of the most beautiful County I have seen. I may retire there some day. My urgency with the immigration issue is strictly financial.

76

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.

If Mexico was so corrupt and evil, shouldn’t all these illegal immigrants be granted refugee status?

Mexico is a squalor ridden country because of the people residing in this country that created their OWN squalor!

How do you feel about the Mexican race? You sound a little angry. I personally know a lot of Mexicans, I have dated a few Mexican Women .They are great people, very family oriented. I have been to Mexico several times, I love it. It has some of the most beautiful County I have seen. I may retire there some day. My urgency with the immigration issue is strictly financial.

[/quote]

Are you talking to me?

Mexican is not a race, it is a nationality.

I like the Mexican people I have met.

They are hard working and generally have the same values as I do.

77

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Guttus Gumptuous wrote:
knewsom wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Mexico is corrupt and repressive.

The fix to this problem needs to start in Mexico. Real democracy is sorely needed.

If Mexico was so corrupt and evil, shouldn’t all these illegal immigrants be granted refugee status?

Mexico is a squalor ridden country because of the people residing in this country that created their OWN squalor!

How do you feel about the Mexican race? You sound a little angry. I personally know a lot of Mexicans, I have dated a few Mexican Women .They are great people, very family oriented. I have been to Mexico several times, I love it. It has some of the most beautiful County I have seen. I may retire there some day. My urgency with the immigration issue is strictly financial.

Are you talking to me?

Mexican is not a race, it is a nationality.

I like the Mexican people I have met.

They are hard working and generally have the same values as I do.[/quote]

No Zap I was speaking to Gutus Gumptus. I would agree with you though Mexican is a nationality. But I am not sure if a distinct D.N.A. would qualify them for their own race or not.

  1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

  2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

  3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

  4. Humans considered as a group.

  5. Biology.

a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.

  1. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.
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[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…Are you talking to me?

…No Zap I was speaking to Gutus Gumptus. …
[/quote]

Good luck with that. I think he is a few cards shy of a full deck.

79

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
…Are you talking to me?

…No Zap I was speaking to Gutus Gumptus. …

Good luck with that. I think he is a few cards shy of a full deck.[/quote]

Agreed… I’m not even gonna get into it with him.

80

How am I missing a few “cards”? Mexicans are not a race, despite the fact that only 10% of Mexico is white and the rest is either mestizo or Indian. No, I do not have any Mexican friends. All of my friends are white or Jewish. This is how it worked out and it seems pretty natural to me, considering I am Jewish and pretty darn white looking.

Is there something wrong with this? I do NOT hate anyone, Mexican or otherwise. Growing up, I had acquaintances that were Korean, Chinese, white, Jewish, black, and mixed. I am from Queens and deal with these people and others constantly.

I have nothing but respect for good PEOPLE of any color. I have had acquaintances, co-workers, bosses, classmates, co-workers, and workout partners of all kinds. Some of them are brilliant and talented. However, I am NOT a fan of multiculturalism. This is NOT out of hate.