So H factor, Do you believe that if you get a scholarship awarded for a specific area of study or education that you then have the right to spend it on what ever type of education you want?
He was on Bill Mahrs show too a few months back… Its not a political party thing its more of a affirmation that shits done changed in the USA… People dont take pride or see honor in being a tradesman… Everbody wants to teach there kids the same ol shit get good grades go to colledge and get a good job… But whos gonna build all the shit we need??? A college degree isnt what it used to be & these skill jobs do pay big.
For that matter owning your own business in the trades can be very lucrative… I have kids and me and my wife argue this shit all the time… But shes old school thinking… Not only should there be more of a positive emphasis on the trades but entrapreneurship… If my son owned a plumbing biz I’d be just as happy as if he was a corporate slug
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
So H factor, Do you believe that if you get a scholarship awarded for a specific area of study or education that you then have the right to spend it on what ever type of education you want?
[/quote]
No of course not. If someone is giving a scholarship for something specific of course they need to use it for that.
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
He was on Bill Mahrs show too a few months back… Its not a political party thing its more of a affirmation that shits done changed in the USA… People dont take pride or see honor in being a tradesman… Everbody wants to teach there kids the same ol shit get good grades go to colledge and get a good job… But whos gonna build all the shit we need??? A college degree isnt what it used to be & these skill jobs do pay big.
For that matter owning your own business in the trades can be very lucrative… I have kids and me and my wife argue this shit all the time… But shes old school thinking… Not only should there be more of a positive emphasis on the trades but entrapreneurship… If my son owned a plumbing biz I’d be just as happy as if he was a corporate slug [/quote]
As would I. I fully support this endeavor. I just don’t understand the hate for history. And I think some people have happened to hear some talking points or something and getting things a bit mixed up.
A college degree has NEVER meant employment in any field. As great as the demand for STEM jobs are we have unemployed people with those degrees. No one is entitled to shit because they own a degree. Everyone should have the freedom to pursue higher education in whatever field they choose. Even art history! Just understand the risks with pursuing a degree in such a low demand field.
Maybe but lets be real not everyones cut out to be a bio chemist. Sometimes we need dudes to fix the shitter… Nothing wrong with that BTW… Im all for a coledge degree but we spend a awful lot of time pushing it on folks that would be better served getting on the job training… Plus the massive expense of a 4-5yr degree its nuts… My wife has a masters deg she makes shit money… I barely graduated HS & did 6yrs in basic state school most of the time studying gravity bong hits and vaginas… Now I own 3 different biz’s Some of the richest dudes I know are just no CLG or partial… Its not the end all be all now days
I agree w you no one is entiled but in the USA its pretty much engrained in youth…Get good grades, go to clg, get a good job. When kids dont fit that mold we look down on them and thats not cool… Especially when that formula is wak & breeds conformity to a system that aint what it used to be
[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Maybe but lets be real not everyones cut out to be a bio chemist. Sometimes we need dudes to fix the shitter… Nothing wrong with that BTW… Im all for a coledge degree but we spend a awful lot of time pushing it on folks that would be better served getting on the job training… Plus the massive expense of a 4-5yr degree its nuts… My wife has a masters deg she makes shit money… I barely graduated HS & did 6yrs in basic state school most of the time studying gravity bong hits and vaginas… Now I own 3 different biz’s Some of the richest dudes I know are just no CLG or partial… Its not the end all be all now days
I agree w you no one is entiled but in the USA its pretty much engrained in youth…Get good grades, go to clg, get a good job. When kids dont fit that mold we look down on them and thats not cool… Especially when that formula is wak & breeds conformity to a system that aint what it used to be[/quote]
Kids who shouldn’t go to college shouldn’t go to college. Higher education has never been a guarantee of success though and never will no matter what anyone goes into. Some of the richest people in the world are high school dropouts.
The story with you and your wife is not surprising as it happens all the time. I have a college degree and my fiance will probably eventually make more money than me without one. I would agree we push far too many kids into college, but I do think eventually the pendulum will swing back as markets change and a bachelors degree loses value.
The more scary thing is we push kids who weren’t that good in high school into college because we are afraid to be frank with kids and say "college is more difficult than high school and you have to pay a lot of money for it. If you are struggling in high school, better figure some shit out before even considering high school.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
So H factor, Do you believe that if you get a scholarship awarded for a specific area of study or education that you then have the right to spend it on what ever type of education you want?
[/quote]
No of course not. If someone is giving a scholarship for something specific of course they need to use it for that.
[/quote]
OK. Reason I ask is that the way that this all jumped off it seemed like that wasn’t the case.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
You seem to want to argue for argues sake today.
[/quote]
That’s our PWI pet, Contrarian Factor.
[/quote]
And with this…one step closer to 35,000 posts!
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If I was in high school I would sign it.
I might complain about how this country is run, but I am happy I have a job, and I work my ass off every day.[/quote]
I like Mike, we went to the same college actually, he’s a symbol of the working man. I hope more scholarships like this pop up. I think getting $10K for an Art History degree is beyond stupid. [/quote]
Why is that beyond stupid what a student who wins a scholarship chooses to major in?[/quote]
Because there are very few to zero jobs available in fields like Art History.
I don’t care what they major in, but I find it laughable when graduates complain, often about student debt, when their major is basket weaving. [/quote]
So you went from getting 10K for an Art History degree is stupid to not caring what people major in…which is it? We have too many people in majors with a lack of jobs right now, but that is no reason to oppose people’s choice in what they choose to get a higher education in. 0 jobs in Art History is simply not true. We don’t need no one to major in history anymore than we need everyone to major in it. If jobs aren’t there it is on students AND advisors to talk about the low demand in a major and explain potential issues with student debt and a lack of a job.
If a kid gets a scholarship I am not against that kid using it in any major they want to and I think it’s a bit strange you seem to be. Who exactly do you think should make that decision?
I love the sound of Mike Rowe’s scholarship for what it’s worth. [/quote]
There is nothing inconsistent with what I wrote. I think it’s really stupid to spend money on an Art History degree even if you get a $10K scholarship (last I check even state schools are more than that). I also don’t care if someone is dumb enough to do this. They are free to put themselves in debt for what will ultimately earn them a night time manager position at McDonald’s. I don’t really care.
I don’t oppose people’s choice in major, I think their choice in major (if it isn’t practical) is stupid. [/quote]
Their are people in America with Art History degrees who make a ton of money. Their are people who majored in engineering who are working at McDonald’s.
The demand for someone with an Art History degree is likely not high at this point and likely never has been very high. We could say the same thing about a lot of History degrees. So NO ONE should be allowed to major in History? Plenty of people who have majored in history MAKE A LOT OF MONEY. Some don’t. Some aren’t using the degree. Some are. Americans change jobs all the time. We don’t need everyone majoring in history anymore than we need everyone majoring in ANYTHING. You don’t want anyone in America to study history?! You think anyone in America who gets a history degree is setup to work in Starbucks or McDonald’s?
A lot of anger towards letting someone study what they want to study in college. [/quote]
nope on the engineering thing. engineers dont settle. under 4% unemployment, even in the deepest depths of the great recession. if there is one working at mcdonalds, it is because he likes the free food, not because he needs to.
also, banged a few art history majors and knew many more. none of them have a job that has anything to do with art. Jewelry store clerks, CSR, receptionist, none of them happy with career.
[quote]Da Man reloaded wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If I was in high school I would sign it.
I might complain about how this country is run, but I am happy I have a job, and I work my ass off every day.[/quote]
I like Mike, we went to the same college actually, he’s a symbol of the working man. I hope more scholarships like this pop up. I think getting $10K for an Art History degree is beyond stupid. [/quote]
Why is that beyond stupid what a student who wins a scholarship chooses to major in?[/quote]
Because there are very few to zero jobs available in fields like Art History.
I don’t care what they major in, but I find it laughable when graduates complain, often about student debt, when their major is basket weaving. [/quote]
So you went from getting 10K for an Art History degree is stupid to not caring what people major in…which is it? We have too many people in majors with a lack of jobs right now, but that is no reason to oppose people’s choice in what they choose to get a higher education in. 0 jobs in Art History is simply not true. We don’t need no one to major in history anymore than we need everyone to major in it. If jobs aren’t there it is on students AND advisors to talk about the low demand in a major and explain potential issues with student debt and a lack of a job.
If a kid gets a scholarship I am not against that kid using it in any major they want to and I think it’s a bit strange you seem to be. Who exactly do you think should make that decision?
I love the sound of Mike Rowe’s scholarship for what it’s worth. [/quote]
There is nothing inconsistent with what I wrote. I think it’s really stupid to spend money on an Art History degree even if you get a $10K scholarship (last I check even state schools are more than that). I also don’t care if someone is dumb enough to do this. They are free to put themselves in debt for what will ultimately earn them a night time manager position at McDonald’s. I don’t really care.
I don’t oppose people’s choice in major, I think their choice in major (if it isn’t practical) is stupid. [/quote]
Their are people in America with Art History degrees who make a ton of money. Their are people who majored in engineering who are working at McDonald’s.
The demand for someone with an Art History degree is likely not high at this point and likely never has been very high. We could say the same thing about a lot of History degrees. So NO ONE should be allowed to major in History? Plenty of people who have majored in history MAKE A LOT OF MONEY. Some don’t. Some aren’t using the degree. Some are. Americans change jobs all the time. We don’t need everyone majoring in history anymore than we need everyone majoring in ANYTHING. You don’t want anyone in America to study history?! You think anyone in America who gets a history degree is setup to work in Starbucks or McDonald’s?
A lot of anger towards letting someone study what they want to study in college. [/quote]
nope on the engineering thing. engineers dont settle. under 4% unemployment, even in the deepest depths of the great recession. if there is one working at mcdonalds, it is because he likes the free food, not because he needs to.
also, banged a few art history majors and knew many more. none of them have a job that has anything to do with art. Jewelry store clerks, CSR, receptionist, none of them happy with career.[/quote]
Apparently didn’t read the article:
Not that many people graduate with a degree in Art History in the first place. It’s a crazily low amount of people. Anecdotal evidence for the win I guess since you apparently know every single one in the nation and banged them all.
The internet: Where people can tell stories and act as if the local thing that happened right where they are is the thing that happens all across America. But I guess we will take your word for it since apparently you fucked most of the art history majors in the nation. Since the number is so low you should have picked another major to focus on getting busy with. I’d suggest psychology. We have a lot of people with psych degrees who can’t find jobs right now. A way higher number than Art History!
You have unemployed engineers. The number is low I’m sure, but the fact remains getting a degree in engineering does NOT guarantee a high paying job in the field you went into. Pretty much nothing does. This doesn’t mean we don’t need engineers and it doesn’t really mean we don’t need any Art History majors. As demand shifts our nation’s students will adapt to it. They always have and always will. If they don’t, they won’t have work.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
You seem to want to argue for argues sake today.
[/quote]
That’s our PWI pet, Contrarian Factor.
[/quote]
And with this…one step closer to 35,000 posts! [/quote]
I could spend 3500 of that 35,000 pointing out just how often you fumble the ball. You gotta quit carrying it like a loaf of bread.[/quote]
You’re allowed to actively participate in the discussion that pertains to actual threads instead of stopping by and dropping random insults around. If I’m fumbling the ball at least I’m attempting to play the game. You’re up in the stands watching and yelling at the players because you’re not tough enough to play.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html
Accounting vs. Art History
[/quote]
What does this tell us exactly? Why did you not go into chemical engineering? You would have made more money and have a much better chance of being employed. [/quote]
It tells us Accountants (in general) make more than those with a degree in Art History (In general)…
Whatever, I’m going home, enjoy the last word…
[/quote]
I just don’t know why you’d waste your time in Accounting making less money in a field that has a higher rate of unemployment than chemical engineering? [/quote]
You would have a point if we had been talking about chemical engineering, but we weren’t were we?
[quote]H factor wrote:
I don’t know what you make, but I’d be willing to bet you make considerably less than quite a few History majors. [/quote]
The above is just vague enough to be true. Yes I can imagine there are folks with Art History degrees that make more than me. There are folks with GEDs that make more than me. So following your logic I should of dropped out of HS and then got a GED correct?
On average a person with an accounting degree makes more money than a person with an Art History degree. The link was a direct response to your subtle income attack and that’s all. People that prusue Chemical Engineering degrees are setting themselves up for success. They are investing in their future. Art History, not so much.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I just don’t understand the hate for history. And I think some people have happened to hear some talking points or something and getting things a bit mixed up.
A college degree has NEVER meant employment in any field. As great as the demand for STEM jobs are we have unemployed people with those degrees. No one is entitled to shit because they own a degree. Everyone should have the freedom to pursue higher education in whatever field they choose. Even art history! [/quote]
1: I literally pulled Art History out of thin air. No one is hating on a history degree, I certainly am not. You created this “hate” out of nothing.
2: No one said anything about a college degree = a job, you made that up.
3: No one said a person shouldn’t be free to pursue the degree they want, you made that up.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Just understand the risks with pursuing a degree in such a low demand field.[/quote]
^This is basically what I said just in different words. People, we saw it during the Occupy protests, complain when their $100K degree in Art History garners them a job at Starbucks, which I find laugable.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
You seem to want to argue for argues sake today.
[/quote]
That’s our PWI pet, Contrarian Factor.
[/quote]
I have bad days also, so I am guilty of this myself.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-Degrees_that_Pay_you_Back-sort.html
Accounting vs. Art History
[/quote]
What does this tell us exactly? Why did you not go into chemical engineering? You would have made more money and have a much better chance of being employed. [/quote]
It tells us Accountants (in general) make more than those with a degree in Art History (In general)…
Whatever, I’m going home, enjoy the last word…
[/quote]
I just don’t know why you’d waste your time in Accounting making less money in a field that has a higher rate of unemployment than chemical engineering? [/quote]
You would have a point if we had been talking about chemical engineering, but we weren’t were we?
[quote]H factor wrote:
I don’t know what you make, but I’d be willing to bet you make considerably less than quite a few History majors. [/quote]
The above is just vague enough to be true. Yes I can imagine there are folks with Art History degrees that make more than me. There are folks with GEDs that make more than me. So following your logic I should of dropped out of HS and then got a GED correct?
On average a person with an accounting degree makes more money than a person with an Art History degree. The link was a direct response to your subtle income attack and that’s all. People that prusue Chemical Engineering degrees are setting themselves up for success. They are investing in their future. Art History, not so much.
[quote]H factor wrote:
I just don’t understand the hate for history. And I think some people have happened to hear some talking points or something and getting things a bit mixed up.
A college degree has NEVER meant employment in any field. As great as the demand for STEM jobs are we have unemployed people with those degrees. No one is entitled to shit because they own a degree. Everyone should have the freedom to pursue higher education in whatever field they choose. Even art history! [/quote]
1: I literally pulled Art History out of thin air. No one is hating on a history degree, I certainly am not. You created this “hate” out of nothing.
2: No one said anything about a college degree = a job, you made that up.
3: No one said a person shouldn’t be free to pursue the degree they want, you made that up.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Just understand the risks with pursuing a degree in such a low demand field.[/quote]
^This is basically what I said just in different words. People, we saw it during the Occupy protests, complain when their $100K degree in Art History garners them a job at Starbucks, which I find laugable. [/quote]
Your logic said if income and employment were the primary drivers of decisions for graduates Accounting would be better than Art History. This is true. It’s also true that we have better options than accounting if those are the primary drivers of decisions. We need accountants, we need psychologists, and we need chemical engineers. We even (gasp!) need art history majors. We have art history majors who have jobs in that field!
We will adapt to the amount of people needed in any field over time. Students ALWAYS have and always will. Picking on art history majors (which is such a small amount of degree pursuers that I couldn’t find data on them specifically) makes as much sense as me faulting you for majoring in accounting when better jobs were available. You can’t really be mad that I turned your argument against you simply because it doesn’t hold up any water.
You would have been better off pursuing a degree in chemical engineering based on employment data and income levels. And yet you didn’t. We don’t need every single person going into college to major in the occupation that currently has the highest levels of demand and income.
As for the occupy protests I’m guessing that amount of people you had all sorts of majors in there…from engineering to accounting. It wasn’t a mass of Art History majors only doing the protesting.
In fact here is a video OF AN ENGINEER major at Occupy. The crazies come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and even majors.
[quote]H factor wrote:
Your logic said if income and employment were the primary drivers of decisions for graduates Accounting would be better than Art History. This is true. It’s also true that we have better options than accounting if those are the primary drivers of decisions. We need accountants, we need psychologists, and we need chemical engineers. We even (gasp!) need art history majors. We have art history majors who have jobs in that field!
[/quote]
You brought income up. I didn’t mention it until you brought it up and when I did mention it, it was in direct response to you bring my personal income into the discussion. You are twisting the argument as best you can to save face because of your obvious misinterpretation of my position.
We don’t NEED art hisotry majors, lol.
No one is picking on art history. Like I said, it was pulled out of thin air. Had I known someone, like yourself, would be so offended by this choice I would of chosen basket weaving.
Investing in a degree in chemical engineering, much like accounting, gives you a far greater opportunity to succeed (I would even say accounting more so than chemical engineering based on versatility of the degree) unlike an Art History degree, which is such a niche area very few people even pursue it.
I’m not mad. You didn’t flip my arguement at all. You might think you did, but you didn’t. All you’ve done is twist the context of the discussion. When we started we were playing basketball, but all of sudden I find myself playing cornerback…
You can compare chemical engineering to art hitory, but the same does not hold true for accounting. A lot of folks that get degrees in accounting end up in some other business function. Chemical engineers and art historians don’t have that kind of versatility. provide evidence that those with accounting degrees have higher unemployement rates than say chemical engineering degrees and maybe, just maybe, you’ll have a single point.
Again, I didn’t bring income up. This entire time I have been talking about taking on debt to pursue a majorsand the stupidity of going into debt to ultimatley work at McDonalds.
No one said this. What I did say is if you complain about your $100K in student loans I hope you majored in something practical that you can earn a living doing, otherwise IMO, you’re an idiot.
Oh a video on youtube that supports your point. You’re right, my bad, lol…
I see you glossed over this:
“There are folks with GEDs that make more than me. So following your logic I should of dropped out of HS and then got a GED correct?”
Pgs. 9, 12, & 14
This was one of the first google hits
http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/unemployment.final.update1.pdf
_________Recent UnderGrad_Undergrad + expereince_Grad degree
Accounting 6.8% 4.8% 3.8%
Chem. Eng. N/A 4.2% 3.5%
Art History N/A 8.8% N/A
Chemical engineering is slightly better, although I cannot find an explanation as to why recent undergrads do not have employment data.
Methodology
Data from the American Community Survey for the years 2009 and 2010 were pooled to provide a
larger sample size for the estimates. The unemployment rates were then computed for each of the three
groups by dividing the total unemployed with the total employed and unemployed. The earnings used
are median earnings in 2010 dollars rounded to the nearest $1,000. The three groups are: recent college
graduates (those between ages 22 and 26 with bachelor degrees), experienced college graduates (those
between ages 30 and 54), and graduate degree holders (those with master?s degrees or higher and are
between 30 and 54). Median earnings are based on those who worked more than 35 hours a week and
at least 50 weeks a year. All calculations use the survey weights provided by the Census Bureau.
Can’t check the American Community Survey for the years 2009 and 2010 because the gov isn’t working today…