What the hell does that mean? What truth do you know about anyone who didn’t vote for or who doesn’t support Bush?
You’re a fucking idiot. Get off your high horse.
BTW, in an interview with Bill Maher, Michael Moore admitted that he didn’t vote for Bush OR Gore. This guy must be that dumb to think that he has covered his ass here. If he had such a problem with Bush and didn’t think he should be president, why didn’t he vote for the only other candidate with a realistic shot at getting elected instead of Bush. Quit crying about it and next time vote for the person you dislike the least…that’s politics.
nate dogg (notice uncapitalized letters),
I appreciate your kind words. First of all, I am always on the high horse. I know of no other vantage point than on high.
Second, if you don’t support the war, chances are you are a clintongore lover and would do anything to hurt the administration. I have no idea if you are pro or con regarding our involvment in Iraq. However, if you are against it, chances are you voted for billy boy and you are just a bitter, little fellow. I absolutely guarantee that flanker voted for clintongore. He probably was part of that group of people calling for a revote in Florida. He probably has even said the words, “The Supreme Court Justices GAVE the election to Bush.”
You know why I am spot on about these things? Because liberals are so predictable. I watch the dnc chairman mcaullife, and I know what people like flanker are going to say in advance. It gives me plenty of time to formulate an argument. liberals are very predictable with very little original thought. They regurgitate party mantra. It has been a pleasure educating you.
United States=Good Guys
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I support the war and our troops.
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I did not vote for Bush, nor do I like him.
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Predictable?
No, I do not live in the US (I thought that was clear).
Please follow my logic here: While the government could just go to war, it does help to have public support for any war effort. I?ll wager a bet that most Americans are not warmongers, and would be content if the country was not at war. So, perpetuate the idea of a threat, get the public scared, and they will support the defense of American freedom (whatever the fuck ?defending freedom? means). I?m not saying that this sense of fear is ill-founded; 9/11, the USS Cole, and the embassy bombings are reasons to increase public security. However, I feel that creating this system of colour-coded terror threat levels, fabricating an Iraqi nuclear program and implying that Saddam?s regiem was a direct threat to US security is not only rhetoric, but manipulative. Understanding that democracy is not as free a system as it sounds; yes, the public is allowed their own opinions, but how do you control the public? Control opinion.
I do feel that the blurring of distinction between the War on Terror and Operation Iraqi Freedom (I love it! Who writes this stuff?) was perpetuated in order to increase approval of war in Iraq. I do not think that it is argueable that the majority of Americans get their nerws from CNN or some other major news network, and don?t think for a second that these institutions do not maintain the governments agenda.
So great, Iraq is liberated (we think). I am happy about this. Saddam was a dictator, and dictators are bad. But, what happens when the US pulls out of Iraq and leaves in place a democratic Iraqi government. Its not going to be all springtime and roses. Iraq is not a unified religious or political nation, and there are a lot of minority groups in Iraq who have been repressed under Saddam, and they?re going to want their say, and its rather naive to think that everyone is just going to get along now that Saddam has been ousted. Democracy isn?t nessicarily the answer, so don?t go patting yourselves on the back just yet, this is a first, very small, step.
There are ugly, undeniable truths about America that nobody in America wants to hear. They seem to want to believe that they live in a democracy where they are free and that they matter. Where all men are created equal, etc, etc, all the cliches we’ve all heard ad nauseum.
Michael Moore has the balls to show the truth about these false beliefs.
Nobody wants to hear it, so they attack Michael Moore instead of the issues he brings up.
As soon as someone attacks the individual because of their opinion, instead of attacking the opinion with valid non-cliche counter-arguments, that is the same as proving the other side is right.
Speaking as someone looking at America from the outside, Michael Moore knows what we do and the American public largely does not. He is doing you a great service with the films and books he produces. If more Americans were as socially consious as Michael Moore, we would think as highly of you as you think of yourselves.
Wow, somebody agreed with me, cool.
Wow, I didn’t know Michael Moore posted on this site. It’s an honor, but why did you pick the name Alberta Beef?
Seriously though, I will agree that the US govt. uses less than respectable tactics to gain support for the war and the military in general. There have been a ton of friggin war movies released in the past two years, along with military commercials that have bands like Godsmack playing in the background. I’ll admit it, they get me fired up.
And yes, “Operation Iraqi Freedom” is lame as hell. We all know that the Iraqi liberation is only a nice side effect. It only hurts Bush’s credibility.
Oh and by the way, I heard today on the radio that US Marines found some plutonium, so you may want to retract that statement about “fabricating an Iraqi nuclear program.” Not sure yet though.
Try this site for an article on the secret nuke program: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/specialreports/iraq/s_128200.html
As far as the US Marines finding the Plutonium, I haven’t heard a thing.
That would suck, though. Finding plutonium. If you “find” plutonium unprotected you have about 2 days before your body turns into mush.
Whether he had the weapons or not is inconsequential. This is a nation that fiercely believes that the police force cannot be allowed to come into your home without a warrant under ANY circumstances…
…but it’s okay to invade a country without UN sanction.
Come on! “The Canadian Compromise” fucking set it up for you to make it nice and legal. The motion on the table in the UN was to allow Iraq until March 28 to prove he is in 100% unconditional compliance with UN weapons inspectors. If not, the UN approves invasion.
Just what exactly is 100% compliance? Nothing! You can’t be in 100% compliance! They would’ve fucked up somewhere, even if Iraq were honestly trying to comply. Then you could still have had your “Operation Iraqi Freedom” and anti-American sentiment wouldn’t have risen by 15% around the world this Spring.
Say>>Absolutely.
Although I’ve only been through Montana, Idaho, ,Wyoming, Utah, California, Washington State, Colorado, and Kansas, I wasn’t that impressed by anything I saw.
Well, no. That’s a lie. That Mormon Temple was one fucking amazing piece of architechture. Jesus fuck.
And Durango, CO felt like home.
The whole time all I could wonder was, “where’s the wealth?”
The plutonium thing - I heard it on the radio and I haven’t heard anything since, but I’ve been working a lot and not paying much attention. Like I said, I wasn’t sure. However, I will say that this is just like the media to take a rumor and run with it like it’s fact. They were quick to announce that Iraq launched a scud missile into Kuwait a few weeks ago only to retract that statement a day later.
Beef - While I can appreciate the importance of the devil’s advocate approach, your analogy about the search warrant doesn’t really apply. The police routinely search your car and your person without a warrant if they have probable cause. If you have nothing to hide you don’t bitch about your civil rights being violated…you let them do their thing and you’re on your way. It’s a part of life now and I feel a hell of a lot safer when people, myself included, are pulled out of line in an airport to get searched before we board a plane. If Saddam had no weapons, why did they repeatedly dick around with the UN inspectors? For shits and giggles? Why do you so adamantly defend someone’s civil rights who has taken pleasure in the slaughter of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people?
chrismcl
Do a search on google for Rush Limabaugh Draft Dodger. He ducked military service because of an “anal fissure” or something along those lines.
Nobody seemed to pick up on my comment about Prescott Bush’s business dealings with the Nazis during WW2, and the business connections between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family (which will be the subject of the next Michael Moore documentary).
I am against the war, but I support the grunts who are out there sweating it out. I just think this war is an mis-use of American resources, American firepower, and taxpayer’s money.
You folks who want “Hollywood types” to stay out of politics… would that hold true of Ronald Reagan as well? Or just the “Hollywood” folks who don’t mirror your views?
Moore is a socialist, plain and simple…This guy believes income taxes should be at 70%…
Why do you so adamantly defend someone’s civil rights who has taken pleasure in the slaughter of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people?
You’re making assumptions and using cliche. Care to try again?
As for the “Devil’s Advocate” approach… It may be hard for someone born south of the 49th to believe this, but I really don’t like the states. I visited the previously listed states in a five-week whitewater kayaking tour and I really have no desire to come back–save for the rivers.
I won’t bother listing the reasons why as it would be far too long for the moderators to allow.
That, and Mr.Moore will most likely reveal 90% of the reasons in his productions and publications, anyway.
If I have a nuke, I would want to use it as a weapon or at least a deterrent. It won’t be a threat if I keep it hidden in my garage because then nobody can see it. I would want to keep it in my back yard so the whole world would know I have it. Then people would get scared. No nation in the Persian Gulf region felt threated by Iraq, so they must not have any nukes. Not unless USA/GB plants them. The useful stuff in biological weapons could be synthesized in a high-school lab, so to get rid of that stuff, the USA would have to blow up the whole country, or plant some.
Ok Beef, how’s this:
Why do you so adamantly defend the civil of rights of someone who has taken pleasure in the slaughter of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people?
Alberta,
“You’re making assumptions and using cliche”
And may I refer to your previous post.
"The whole time all I could wonder was, “where’s the wealth?”
Speaking of assumptions and using cliche.
I will not get involved in a political debate as I’ve previously stated, but you’re being lumped in with Say for the time being which is DEFINATELY not a good thing. Read Say’s latest anti-American bullshit post and ask yourself if that’s such a good thing?
We’re apparently planting nuclear weapons in Iraq now. It’s amazing how reasoning goes out the windown when you have some agenda you have to advance at any cost.