[quote]Nicky_Boy24 wrote:
I’m glad you think so! No hard feelings.[/quote]
No hard feelings at all. I only pick on canadians cuz I used to be one. Okay, not quite but close enough. I used to live in upstate new york on the canadian border. (Ogdensburg and Massena, NY bordering Cornwall Ontario.)
And honestly, I like Canada. Most of the places I’ve been (with the exception of Cornwall) are really clean, even in the bigger cities. Hell even the homeless people are cleaner there.
[quote]I’m sick of people like you trying to take away our greatness by criticism and diversion. Why do you want to knock us down?
[/quote]
Wow, America must be a weak and puny country that can’t withstand some honest criticism.
Anyway, we are complaining about that fraud who currently occupies the White House, and the jokers who tell him what to do. That’s pretty specific.
I realize that some people think it is bad form to criticize a sitting president. However, I do not, as long as there is some merit there.
As far as what Clinton did to fight terrorism…
Clinton tripled the FBI anti-terrorism budget.
Team Clinton captured, tried and convicted the people responsible for the 93 attack on the World Trade Center. This attack happened only 38 days into the first Clinton term. Unlike Team Bush, Clinton did not whine like a pussy that it was all the fault of the previous administration. Instead, he sacked up and took care of business. Besides getting all suspects life sentences, laptops and documents were captured, and the perps have been useful in giving up additional info. I’d say that is preferrable to just blowing these guys up and learning nothing.
Remember when Clinton bombed training camps in Afghanistan, and the Republican congress started screaming about “wag the dog” and “No War for Monica”?
Remember the big Millenium attacks on New Years Eve 2000? Me neither! Team Clinton squelched attacks and we were safe.
Try doing a search on Project Bojinka to see the type of efforts Clinton was making against terrorism, all while dealing with GOP dirty tricksters attacking him over Whitewater, “Travel Gate” and other crap. Republicans kept Clinton distracted with bizarre claims that he killed Vince Foster, that Clinton was a drug dealer, a rapist, and other bizarre shit. How much more progress could we have made in America, if the GOP hadn’t been spending hundreds of millions of dollars investigating Clinton (and finding nothing, until MonicaGate). Please, spare me Republican bullshit about how ‘We have to support the president’. Clean up the scumbags in the Republican party, then maybe we can talk.
When Clinton handed off the presidency to Bush Junior, he warned Dubya that Al Qaeda and Bin Laden were the #1 threat to security. But there was such a pathological hatred of Clinton that Team Bush decided to ignore Clinton’s findings, and do all new investigations of their own. Nine months later, Team Bush was still gathering the basic facts when we got slammed on 9-11.
Yeah maybe Bush did more to fight terrorism than Clinton by invading Afghanistan (and Iraq, arguably). However Bush literally didn’t do jack shit about terrorism BEFORE 9-11… WHEN IT COULD HAVE REALLY COUNTED.
Batty,
“How can you support a president who has such a staunch right-wing fundamentalist position?”
Bush is not a staunch right-wing fundamentalist. If you don’t think so, go ask a right-wing fundamentalist if he thinks Bush is.
“…living in a theocracy…”
How are you living in a theocracy? You’re not. This is a foolish claim.
“…a “new secular world order”…”
The Founding Fathers never uttered such words. They preferred to disentangle church and state, not create an irreligious state.
Lumpy,
“America must be a weak and puny country that can’t withstand some honest criticism.”
Sure we can, providing it’s honest and not based in airy-fairy conspiracies, conjecture, innuendo, and insinuation. But you’ve already failed that test with your next sentence:
“…we are complaining about that fraud who currently occupies the White House…”
Fraud? Let me guess - a conspiring right-wing cabal in the Supreme Court trying to get Republicans in power (the same Court whose conservative justices disagreed with McCain-Feingold even though the law gave a huge advantage to the Republican Party?). Tune in the tin-foil hat.
“Besides getting all suspects life sentences…”
No way! What a fabulous deterrent to Islamofascists that actually are content with committing suicide in furtherance of their sinister goals. Why not just hand them a lollipop, a letter of apology, and all the plastic explosive they can use?
It’s not that Clinton did nothing - we are all guilty of complacency, Republicans and Democrats alike. But Clinton had an opportunity to have OBL delivered to him on a silver platter from Syria (I believe). He declined.
While Clinton may have expanded the FBI, he let the military wither.
Also, as has been produced ad nauseum but ignored by the Bush bashers, regime change in Iraq was one of Clinton’s priorities. Bush picked up Clinton’s torch and ran with it.
Terrorism was not a huge issue in 2000. Neither Gore nor Bush spent any time on it as a major plank in their platform. Surely if Clinton thought OBL was such a danger his protege Gore would have taken up the cause? He didn’t. No one is to blame for the attacks of 9-11 except the terrorists themselves. Hindsight is always perfect - if only he had done this, or we had done that - mistakes happen and there is always oversight.
And none of any of this matters. The real reason why the 9-11 attacks were so successful was because of hijacking protocol - flight crews and passengers were supposed to give hijackers what they wanted and then negotiate after the plan landed. That’s where the weakness was exploited. Forget flight training, forget terrorist financing - the weakness was in protocol. That was our mistake - not seeing that we could be exploited though our own desire to cooperate with terrorists.
But let’s put the blame squarely where it belongs - the murderous enemies of the West who wants to return the world to a 10th century caliphate.
Anything else is just sniveling.
This was an article I just read on newsmax.com about Michael Moore…
Moore Encourages Koreans, Japans Not to Help U.S.
Korea’s Digital Chosun reports that Michael Moore, director of "Fahrenheit 911,? delivered to Korean viewers a message in which he wished them to carry on a campaign against the dispatch of additional troops to Iraq.
Michael Moore issued words of hope and pleading in his first official press conference since the release of the film at the Essex House Hotel in New York with about 200 local and foreign reporters present.
According to Cinema People, the company in charge of the PR for the movie in Korea, Michael Moore was asked whether he wished to convey any messages through “Fahrenheit 911” to the Korean viewers, who are mired in controversy as a result of the nation’s decision to send troops.
Moore answered, "I hope Korean viewers start a social campaign against the dispatch of additional troops to Iraq.? Asked what he thought of the Korean government’s decision to send troops to Korea, however, he simply answered, "I don?t know.?
He also said that Japanese people should act against Japanese PM Koizumi?s support for Bush?s dispatch policy. "Fahrenheit 9.11? won a grand prize at the Cannes international film festival in France this May with the anti-war and anti-Bush movie digging into the business relationship between the Bush family and Osama Bin Laden family.
Moore’s film will be released in Korea on July 22
And in another article in newsmax.com:
In a letter to Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times last year, Moore still listed his town as Flint. In fact, despite his proclamations that “capitalism is a sin” and “an evil system,” he lives in a $1.9 million apartment in Manhattan and enjoys a $1.2 million summer home on Torch Lake in Michigan
Then in his book…‘Stupid’ “Stupid White Men” and “Dude, Where?s My Country?”
Moore harps on his portrayal of America as a “nation of idiots” (i.e., people who disagree with him) and illiterates.
In reality, the “statistics” he offers indicating widespread illiteracy include two sizeable groups: immigrants who are often fluent in other languages but not English, and the blind and visually impaired.
Moore, who after all graduated from high school, delights in ridiculing his countrymen?s poor grasp of geography. “The dumbest Brit here is smarter than the smartest American,” he snickers to an audience in London.
But Moore chooses not to add an important fact: young adults worldwide performed badly on the National Geographic survey he so selectively cites.
He claims that Florida wrongly disenfranchised thousands of pro-Democrat criminals in the 2000 election. “Thirty-one percent of all black men in Florida” are felons, in his paranoid fantasy world. (No wonder this limousine liberal travels in such exclusive circles.)
In reality, the Miami Herald showed that Democrat-run counties violated state law and let the overwhelmingly Democrat felons vote illegally ? more than 2,000 votes, most of which went to Gore.
Most importantly, “Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man” refutes Moore’s wild attempts to implicate the president in 9/11. Every American should read these chapters. They are too detailed to summarize here, but one example will demonstrate this book’s importance.
Moore claims President Bush invaded Afghanistan and toppled the Taliban so he could get an oil pipeline built. You’ve probably heard others parrot this allegation. A master of propaganda knows that if you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it.
In reality, Bush had supported Enron’s plan to run pipes under the Caspian Sea and avoid Afghanistan. “Clinton was the one backing the rival Unocal plan to put them through Afghanistan,” Hardy and Clarke observe.
Inspiration to terrorists: Moore’s favorite claim: ?THERE ? IS ? NO ? TERRORIST ? THREAT!" If so, why do terrorists take succor from him?
The most damning indictment of Moore in “Big Fat Stupid White Man”: the salute offered by Imam Samudra, leader of the Muslim terrorist bombers who murdered 202 people, mostly Australians and other tourists, two years ago at Paddy’s nightclub in Bali.
“I saw lots of whiteys dancing and lots of whiteys drinking there,” Samudra told Indonesian police. The authors note, “It was ‘Kill Whitey’ (to quote a chapter heading in Stupid White Men) with a vengeance.”
Samudra’s attorney Qaidar Faisal concluded his defense by praising the Taliban and quoting from “anti-western texts” including Moore’s “Stupid White Men.”
Despite all the appalling revelations in “Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man,” it’s hard to finish the book without feeling pity for this man.
And then this about the movie…Hollywood agent and Kerry supporter Tom Baer told me, 'Kerry should flee Moore’s movie. It’s Goebbels all over again." This quotation comes not from Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh but from a column in the Washington Post by Tina Brown, a queen of the liberal media establishment.
Christopher Hitchens, a contributor to such partisan publications as New Left Review and The Nation, writes for Slate: “Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of ‘dissenting’ bravery.”
Andrew Sullivan, a former editor at the liberal New Republic: “Moore is beneath contempt.”
And to top it all off, This will be the only film not censored by the Chinese Communisitc Gov’t, and Hezboallah gave its approval and endorsment.
Scary Scary stuff…
Stay Laced and True
CHUCKSmanJoe
Roy, Vroom, Lumpster.
No I will not calm down, Why do you want me to calm down? because I am upsetting your fun? I can pose any views any way I want to pose them even if my views are that you guys are cry baby liberals and people like you hurt america. Freedom of speech right guys, it seems you guys are the ones who can dish it out but not take it back. I would tell you all to grow up but you’re all probably older than I am… Which is sad because you all act like a little kid who just got sent to timeout. Defend your positions without turning it back on me if you are so seriouse about your posts. Prove me wrong if you are so right. So far the responses to me calling you crybabies has been more of the same. Crying because i’m getting worked up. Hev VEG calm down buddy, peace and love brother, why ya getting so riled, you call people names and make negative comments all the time so we can too… (ecuse me while I barf!) Nice defense by the way.
Also stop quoting dead guys, can’t you think for yourselves? All everyone does is post articles and quotes and says yea take that. Think for yourselves, did you ever think that maybe what some dude 200+ years ago said might not be relavant today? It probably didn’t even enter your mind, you just see it and spit it out as some law that exists because someone that was important said it and it helps prove your point. I don’t F-ing care!
Hope you guys don’t take any of this too personally, I don’t expect anyone to be perfect and I by no means am. I just think some of you lack in the reasoning and logic department. No prob though to each his own.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
Vegetable
Your the crybaby hypocrite who likes to take little side trips into la la land! You have not done shit, but talk shit on the internet! Your a punk!
Nice use of the english language there, Elk - as well as objective logic.
Ok Elk, Father of all that is good and right. You are right again, I am a bad person who doesn’t know anything and who’s opinions mean less than dirt. I should just go dig a hole and sit in it because you think i’m a crybaby.
Anyways, enough of this crap, obviously I shouldn’t have presented my opinion because know one can look objectively when someone is criticising them. It’s easy enough to criticise an administration who doesn’t post here so you guys can take all the cheap shots you wan’t.
Sorry for telling you how I feel without sugar coating it in the proper PC way you guys like it. The sad part again is that I actually like you guys and feel it is my obligation to let you know if I think you are acting like dorks, I would do the same with my friends. But please, don’t consider anything I have said and just throw out a few more knee jerk reactions, it will make things all better.
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
Anyone that spews the “youre either with us or against us” rhetoric is a moron in my eyes.
Michael Moore is a douche bag, but so is George W.
This country is great. I dont care what anyone says.
What ruins it are people like G.W. and his loyalty to special interests and his fundamentalist Christian views he wants to impose on the rest of the nation.
He is evil and should be impeached for the safety of the people.
Moore and Bush hate each other because they’re the same.
Ear them talk, all black or white, no gray zone.
[quote]FrontFaceLock wrote:
…This country is great. I dont care what anyone says.
What ruins it are people like G.W. and his loyalty to special interests and his fundamentalist Christian views he wants to impose on the rest of the nation.
He is evil and should be impeached for the safety of the people.
[/quote]
Name one thing - just one - that Gdub has done to impose fundamentalist christian views on your life.
No I will not calm down, Why do you want me to calm down? because I am upsetting your fun? I can pose any views any way I want to pose them even if my views are that you guys are cry baby liberals and people like you hurt america.
Have it your way Veg! You want to act like an idiot, go for it. I’d hate to be the one to stop you from exercising your God given right to be a moron. Have at it!
However, I’d suggest you take reading comprehension courses or something if you want to comment on what people are saying with at least some accuracy. Best of luck.
Name one thing - just one - that Gdub has done to impose fundamentalist christian views on your life.
The ban on gay marriage (ok, so it doesnt effect me…yet)
sicking the FCC on Howard Stern.
A Tax credit for married couples. He doesnt want to reward those “living in sin”.
Chuckmanjoe
NewsMax is a wacko right wing source. NewsMax specializes in bizarre conspiracy theories. They claimed that Clinton had Vince Foster murdered, and that Hillary Clinton ran a secret police force out of the White House (!!!), thart Bill Clinton had an illegetimate son with a prostitute, that Clinton was a creation of the “Dixie Mafia” and other bizarre crap. Do yourself a favor and stop reading NewsMax.
Thunder said
This story is bogus. The claim is that Clinton refused an offer from Sudan to turn over Bin Laden in 1996, but the 9-11 Commission found no “reliable evidence to support” the claim that Sudan made such an offer. Here’s what the 911 commission found:
“Former Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States. Clinton administration officials deny ever receiving such an offer. We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim.”
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing8/staff_statement_5.pdf
(note that this is a PDF file)
NewsMax is one of the main sources for spreading this fake story!! Big surprise?
Clinton’s military did pretty well in Iraq, no? You think the US military has “withered”???
It makes sense that the size of the military would expand and contract based on the state of affairs. Reducing the size of the military was widely seen as a “peace dividend” after the end of the Cold War. Now if you want to pin all of that on one person, Bill Clinton, that is a very simplistic view.
Regime change was NOT a “priority” of Bill Clinton, if it was a “priority” then we would have moved forward as if it were a priority. How the heck did you come up with the word “priority”? Clinton agrees that Saddam was a thug, but Clinton was against the way the invasion was rammed past the Congress, the UN, and the public. You know who agrees with Clinton? Dubya’s dad George Bush Senior!!! Dubya’s own Dad thinks the invasion of Iraq is a boondoggle!
Not true! As a New Yorker I can tell you that terrorism absolutely WAS a huge issue in 2000. HUGE. Almost everyone in New York was concerned about a terrorist attack on the eve of the Millenium, including Mayor Giuliani (especially him, probably.) I don’t know where you were in 2000, but I guess you were oblivious to this. Security in New York was absolutely JACKED during this time period.
Guess what? They nabbed some guys coming in from Canada and everything went off without a hitch. Clinton protected us!
[quote]FrontFaceLock wrote:
Anyone that spews the “youre either with us or against us” rhetoric is a moron in my eyes.
Michael Moore is a douche bag, but so is George W.
This country is great. I dont care what anyone says.
What ruins it are people like G.W. and his loyalty to special interests and his fundamentalist Christian views he wants to impose on the rest of the nation.
He is evil and should be impeached for the safety of the people.
[/quote]
Nice!
Roy- “something a grossly simple mind does with ease.” Given your demonstrated expertise in the field, you are well-qualified to make that statement.
“…you will tell lies to ‘illustrate’ your point.” Unlike you, who has no need to , because you are the Omniscient One.
“You moron”- eloquent indeed. Part of your strategy to let the argument speak for itself one can be sure.
“…a president who has such a staunch right-wing fundamentalist position.” This from a C-span junkie? You’re kidding, right?
“…up against the wall.” Well, the left been making all kinds of excuses for the far left’s putting people there and six feet under by the tens of millions in the last century, so what’s the big deal?
Lumpy- I read of few of your other post and thought the medicine was finally kicking in and the back to the basics was starting to work. Why did you stop?
All of that info those intrepid Clintonians obtained really helped us foil the embassy bombings, the Cole bombing, the Saudi bombing and wait, the Bushies ignored it on 9/11-sorry!
I just read a breezy little number about Hillary Clinton, or is that Hillary Rodham, or Hillary Rodham Clinton, or She Who Was Named After A New Zealand Bee Keeper Who later Climbed The World’s Highest Mountain. Sorry, I got carried away. So anyway, Dick Morris, who has worked for the Clintons for over twenty years, wrote the book. My apologies for not clearing its authenticity with you, Lumpy (or you either, Double O), or its ideology, something the left knows a bit about, doesn’t it boys? Um, Lumpy, you might want to read a few of the chapters about “Whitewater, ‘Travelgate,’ and other crap.” I don’t know, though, after perusing your posts, the causal reader might conclude that you were battling Monica for space underneath the Executive Desk and not exactly open to it. Interesting stuff, though, at least to a little person like me.
Lumpy, as a man of the left (so I assume anyway), you should know that the amount of other people’s money considered significant, and therefore worth lamenting as poorly spent, starts at one billion, minimum, as in “one billion here, one billion there, pretty soon you start talking about real money.”
As presuptive T-men, I think that we can all decide for ourselves what is “wacko” and what isn’t, thank you very much. If you can stomach it, read the Toe Sucker on Hillary’s secret police.
Clinton’s military was a modernized and downsized Reagan military, which had ebbed and was on the way up when he inherited it from Carter. The trendline on that probably didn’t change much either way. What did change, though , was polcy regarding personnel, and it changed for the worse. The whole women in combat and training side by side with men in bootcamp sent droves of the best qualified away in a big hurry. I’ve talked to a former Army Ranger at length about it, and he couldn’t stop talking about the damage gone. I don’t doubt that almost all of the most combat orientated ex-soldiers would say the same. The Tailhook Witch Hunt did much the same thing. So it is probably a very good thing that Iraq’s armed forces were 35% of their pre-Gulf War strength. Clinton’s military is a bit over-stretched and doing a disasterous job of occupation, though, isn’t that what the left says?
Well, about the original thread- Michael Moore. Terrorist- I don’t think so. Controversial propagandist of the left, about whom most people have already made up their minds- I think so.
Lumpy, and I guess Omniscient One too- I’m sorry that I didn’t get the real-deal sticker from you before I read the Dick Morris book. I promise that it won’t happen again.
Signed, Schrauper(boring, long-winded, nit-picky, something else, and pedantic)
Vroom- I just couldn’t put you in the same post as Roy Batty and Lumpy.
However-“…the vast majority of your population is composed of ill-educated braggarts that don’t know and don’t care about anything the rest of the world has done, is doing or can do.” Ouch! I wouldn’t go saying that ‘aboot’ Canucks, eh (it’s a joke, relax). Now, I’m not saying that some Americans can come off as a bit much, but on what observations do you base this? And are we Yankees better, the same as, or worse than other nationalities, like say, the French?
“Canada needs lifting from what?” Sub-standard (socialized- they’re synonymous) medicine, defacto, ball- busting, T-lowering feminist censorship, high-level Liberal corruption, and Quebec. I care.
You guys make great neighbors, by the way.
I have to admit I watched this movie only a 1/2hr of it. Because, I couldn’t muster the lies that he was potrarying. (I borrowed a burned copy from a friend).
As I watching this movie I was thinking to myself. Why is that this movie was filmed so amaturish and yet editted so professionally. I it got to me this guy is trying to make it look like a poor documentary guy and trying to get symphathy from the poor uneducated liberals to go watch his movies and pay him millions of dollars their hard earn money to listen propaganda.
You guys know he lives in NYC in one of the most expensive high rise apt in a penthouse suite. The only reason I know this that my client lives in that building and bumps into him on occasion on the weekend.
Moore=Controversy=$$$$
Gibson=Controversay(Passion of the Christ)= $$$$
Here’s another thing that pisses me off about Micheal Moore. You guys remember back during the oscars Patricia and I went at it about Micheal Moore. She claimed that Moore is a Documantery guy and wasn’t out to make money but to inform people.
Moore, is a terroist what he is doing is robbing people’s mind. espeacially, the uneducated one.
Remember guys “FREEDOM OF SPEECH” is a previlage. We can lose it at any moment. And if we do who’s going to fight for it again?
Not our Liberal Moore fans they be hidding under their beds.
Schrauper, certainly a fair question. I’d say the same holds true (with respect to education and literacy) in most modern societies. Also, I’m sure there are plenty of militant Canadian patriots as well.
Anyhow, I spent most of a decade living and working in the US… in New Jersey, Boston, San Jose and Dallas. In reality, I made a lot of friends in my travels – and drank my share of beer.
As for the “lifting” issues. The US has nothing to do with any of these issues and certainly isn’t trying to fix them for us. However, these issues are not as severe as your media would have you believe. In fact, just like you would be proud of your systems, we have pride in ours.
In particular, the only one that has any real significance, corruption, is not a big thing in our government either. From time to time people do stupid things and they get caught – this is how democracies work.
Lumpy,
“Regime change was NOT a “priority” of Bill Clinton…”
Try the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, a bipartisan act signed by Clinton:
http://www.fcnl.org/issues/int/sup/iraq_liberation.htm
Here’s a speech declaring his stance on Iraq:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/
Much more than thinking Saddam was an inconvenient ‘thug’, Clinton perceived him a threat to international peace and spent a fair part of his foreign policy doing something about it.
By the way, did Clinton ‘ram’ the Iraq Liberation Act through Congress? Did Clinton ‘ram’ Operation Desert Fox through the hapless public or the UNSC?
Now if you want to assert that Clinton continued strategic bombing in no-fly zones for the duration of the ‘ceasefire’, all the while making Saddam and his stockpiles a theme in his foreign policy speeches, and, with a straight face tell me that the threat of Iraq was not a priority, be my guest.
As for terrorism proper, it wasn’t a big issue in 2000. Let me put it this way - who do you know that voted for Gore or Bush based on their approach to deterring and handling terrorism? Did you personally vote on the issue of terrorism in 2000?
In New York, I don’t doubt that it was if you had localized threats that were thwarted. But on the whole, terror was not a topic that the candidates Gore and Bush were pressed on nationally. The big buzzwords in the debates, from both candidates, was ‘humility’ in projection of power, nation-building, NATO, and, yes, Saddam.
Both Gore and Bush mentioned getting tough on Saddam in a debate in 2000.
As I have stated earlier, the mindless blame-game is silly - we are all guilty of complacency. Clinton could have done more on his watch, Bush could have too in his brief time before 9/11. My point is that neither myopic extreme does us any good at this point.
The enemy is without, not within. The fault lies with the perpetrators of terrorism and no one else.