Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame Speech

Off Topic
61

[quote]malonetd wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
drewh wrote:
Lebron is getting there skill wise, he already is the most gifted athlete the league has seen.

No he’s not. He’s a big strong fast 6’9" that’s allowed to carry, travel and get away with murder on the court. He has a launch pad left leg but doesn’t jump well off of two, and despite his obvious physical strength he seldom finishes over or through people. He needs to dominate the ball to be effective and can be taken out of his game if the refs aren’t suckin’ him off. He doesn’t shoot well off of the bounce and isn’t a good free throw shooter. As it stands he is a phenomenal athlete, but he and Dwyane Wade being allowed to get away with damn near whatever they want on the court makes them appear better than they really are.

Not to mention Lebron’s mental toughness is light years away from Jordan’s.[/quote]

lol i guess mental toughness doesn’t include leading your team to victory while you’ve a stomach virus.

62

Suprised nobody said anything about the Bryan Russell comment that Mike said. “Next time I see you in shorts…”.

That was priceless. You could see the look of holyshitIwishyoudidn’tsaythat on John Stockton’s face. I think John may have forgotten about that coversation until then too.

I’m off to go pound Chili Beer Lite and drive my NasCar…yeehaw!

63

Jordans words wouldn’t qualify it as a speech! He told his kids he wouldn’t want to be them, then complained about having to pay a grand a ticket to have them there, as if he doesn’t have the money. WTF! His statement about playing at 50 was ridiculous and he tried to use it as fuel to stoke his competitive fire, still. Huh? Come on people, he needs to grow up a little more gracefully.

Once you kick ass, and defeat the obstacles and barriers that were in front of you, dust your shoulders off, pop your collar and keep stepping. Why continue to hold grudges against everyone you’ve already beat down? I was waiting for him to mention the Washington Wizards owner, who used him to try and aquire talent to the team through partial ownership (a failure) and then allowed him to put on his shorts again to put butts in the seats.

Consequently after he re-retired, refused to give him back the ownership he gave up to do such. Unless the Bobcats win the title soon, he should focus on that particular chip on his shoulder (or monkey on his back!). Additionally, where was his challenge to Phil Knight for having kept parts of his persona and naming rights with Nike? Now he’s known to a whole new generation as ‘Jumpman’ instead of ‘Air Jordan’? Go after the last two big dogs that shoved a stick up his butt as opposed to the chumps he already walked on!

64

[quote]oldewise1 wrote:
Jordans words wouldn’t qualify it as a speech! He told his kids he wouldn’t want to be them, then complained about having to pay a grand a ticket to have them there, as if he doesn’t have the money. WTF! His statement about playing at 50 was ridiculous and he tried to use it as fuel to stoke his competitive fire, still. Huh? Come on people, he needs to grow up a little more gracefully.

[/quote]

You do realize athletes are used to getting stuff for free. And you would think that if you’re considering the greatest ever, you wouldn’t have to pay for tix for your kids to come to your enshrinement. Now, if the money goes to charity that’s different.

Perhaps saying he wouldn’t want to be his kids is true, because growing up in the shadow of someone like that would make it pretty hard. Granted, theey’re set for life financially, but still

65

[quote]oldewise1 wrote:
Jordans words wouldn’t qualify it as a speech! He told his kids he wouldn’t want to be them, then complained about having to pay a grand a ticket to have them there, as if he doesn’t have the money. WTF! His statement about playing at 50 was ridiculous and he tried to use it as fuel to stoke his competitive fire, still. Huh? Come on people, he needs to grow up a little more gracefully.

Once you kick ass, and defeat the obstacles and barriers that were in front of you, dust your shoulders off, pop your collar and keep stepping. Why continue to hold grudges against everyone you’ve already beat down? I was waiting for him to mention the Washington Wizards owner, who used him to try and aquire talent to the team through partial ownership (a failure) and then allowed him to put on his shorts again to put butts in the seats.

Consequently after he re-retired, refused to give him back the ownership he gave up to do such. Unless the Bobcats win the title soon, he should focus on that particular chip on his shoulder (or monkey on his back!). Additionally, where was his challenge to Phil Knight for having kept parts of his persona and naming rights with Nike? Now he’s known to a whole new generation as ‘Jumpman’ instead of ‘Air Jordan’? Go after the last two big dogs that shoved a stick up his butt as opposed to the chumps he already walked on! [/quote]

In case you didn’t notice, the crowd was laughing at those parts of his speech. He was not trying to hold grudges, but just telling some amusing anecdotes during his speech. Now go change your tampon.

66

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.[/quote]

Jordan age 21: 28.2 PPG, 6.5 Reb, 5.9 Ast, eFG%: .518, TO%: 13%, 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 22: Was hurt most of the season, back for playoffs but 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 23: 37.1 PPG, 5.2 Reb, 4.6 Ast, eFG%: .484, TO%: 9.1%, 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 24: 35.0 PPG, 5.5 Reb, 5.9 Ast, eFG%: .537, TO%: 9.6%, 2nd-round playoff loss

Lebron age 21: 31.4 PPG, 7.0 Reb, 6.6 Ast, eFG%: .515, TO%: 10.7%, 2nd-round playoff loss
Lebron age 22: 27.3 PPG, 6.7 Reb, 6.0 Ast, eFG%: .507, TO%: 11.5%, Lost in the NBA Finals
Lebron age 23: 30.0 PPG, 7.9 Reb, 7.2 Ast, eFG%: .518, TO%: 11.4%, 2nd-round playoff loss
Lebron age 24: 28.4 PPG, 7.6 Reb, 7.2 Ast, eFG%: .530, TO%: 11.0%, Lost in Conference Finals

Lebron’s playing style makes it unlikely that he will ever match Jordan’s 37 points per game, but that season Jordan also took more shots than anybody in NBA history not named Wilt Chamberlain.

I think people forget that Jordan didn’t even get to the Finals until his 7th season in the league. By then, his supporting cast was definitely superior to what Lebron has had. It’s unlikely that Lebron will ever match Jordan’s total career, but if you compare them by age or by season, Lebron compares very well to what Jordan had done at similar stages in their career.

However, Jordan’s 7th season, what Lebron is about to enter, is where he really came into his own and started to become the greatest. I don’t think Lebron will get to that level, but you certainly can’t rule it out.

67

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
matko5 wrote:
Out of all todays “superstar” only Kobe has a chance to reach MJ’s greatness.

A few more championships and he’ll be there.

As said before, there’s enough time, any his performance in this years NBA Finals was simply amazing.

Winning more championships wouldn’t matter IMO. MJ never lost a finals, never. None of them even went to 7 games, he did what had to be done to win.
Kobe also started his career earlier than MJ thus giving him more chances for titles. Not the strongest case there, but it does give an advantage to Kobe with that one

And even if Kobe did surpassed/tied Jordan’s accomplishments, I honestly dont think people would give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and call him the G.O.A.T. They hate him too much for that.

What’s not up for debates though is the FACT that SKILL WISE, Kobe is better than Michael. Kobe’s basketball skills is unparalleled IMO. Jordan was obviously more physically gifted, but like the Zen Master tells it, Kobe is more skilled than Michael was even in his prime.

Here’s the Phil Jackson interview:

Uh, no. I already said Bryant’s the best one-on-one offensive player of all time. He has a better handle and a better outside shot, not to mention a better off [left] hand. With that, even young skinny Jordan was better around the bucket and no one outside of Allen Iverson has/had the same level of basketball quickness [that doesn’t mean end to end speed]. Jordan was also a much better man defender and as competitive Bryant is he can’t fuck with Jordan. I ran into Orlando Woolridge a couple of years ago sitting at a bar at a mexican restaurant. Woolridge was with the Bulls Jordan’s rookie year. We talked about all kinds of stuff, but my first question was “Was Mike really that goo…” and before I could put the “d” on good he said “Brother, you have no idea.” He started tellin’ stories about how Jordan dominated practices from day one and would dunk on and talk shit to everone, ha. Jordan dealt with hand checks, Bryant deals with zones. The facts are that the early 80’s-mid 90’s was basketball’s golden age, and the level of basketball being played then will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.[/quote]

That’s where you miss the whole “different eras” homie. Do you honestly think that a zone defense is gonna allow jordan to penetrate like he did back when it was strictly man-to-man? He got into the lane easier back then. Why do you think Kobe perfected his outside and perimeter shooting? Because now they can throw different types of defense on him.

And if you run into Derek Fisher one day, he’ll tell you the same thing Woolridge said. Plus, can you really dispute what the ZEN MASTER who coached them both, when he says Kobe had better basketball skills than Michael?

If anyone had a say, its Phil Jackson. And that interview speaks for itself. Kobe had better basketball skills. MJ obviously utilized his large hands and physique, but when you talk about skills, its clear who has the upper hand.

68

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
matko5 wrote:
Out of all todays “superstar” only Kobe has a chance to reach MJ’s greatness.

A few more championships and he’ll be there.

As said before, there’s enough time, any his performance in this years NBA Finals was simply amazing.

Winning more championships wouldn’t matter IMO. MJ never lost a finals, never. None of them even went to 7 games, he did what had to be done to win.
Kobe also started his career earlier than MJ thus giving him more chances for titles. Not the strongest case there, but it does give an advantage to Kobe with that one

And even if Kobe did surpassed/tied Jordan’s accomplishments, I honestly dont think people would give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and call him the G.O.A.T. They hate him too much for that.

What’s not up for debates though is the FACT that SKILL WISE, Kobe is better than Michael. Kobe’s basketball skills is unparalleled IMO. Jordan was obviously more physically gifted, but like the Zen Master tells it, Kobe is more skilled than Michael was even in his prime.

Here’s the Phil Jackson interview:

Uh, no. I already said Bryant’s the best one-on-one offensive player of all time. He has a better handle and a better outside shot, not to mention a better off [left] hand. With that, even young skinny Jordan was better around the bucket and no one outside of Allen Iverson has/had the same level of basketball quickness [that doesn’t mean end to end speed]. Jordan was also a much better man defender and as competitive Bryant is he can’t fuck with Jordan. I ran into Orlando Woolridge a couple of years ago sitting at a bar at a mexican restaurant. Woolridge was with the Bulls Jordan’s rookie year. We talked about all kinds of stuff, but my first question was “Was Mike really that goo…” and before I could put the “d” on good he said “Brother, you have no idea.” He started tellin’ stories about how Jordan dominated practices from day one and would dunk on and talk shit to everone, ha. Jordan dealt with hand checks, Bryant deals with zones. The facts are that the early 80’s-mid 90’s was basketball’s golden age, and the level of basketball being played then will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.

That’s where you miss the whole “different eras” homie. Do you honestly think that a zone defense is gonna allow jordan to penetrate like he did back when it was strictly man-to-man? He got into the lane easier back then. Why do you think Kobe perfected his outside and perimeter shooting? Because now they can throw different types of defense on him.

And if you run into Derek Fisher one day, he’ll tell you the same thing Woolridge said. Plus, can you really dispute what the ZEN MASTER who coached them both, when he says Kobe had better basketball skills than Michael?

If anyone had a say, its Phil Jackson. And that interview speaks for itself. Kobe had better basketball skills. MJ obviously utilized his large hands and physique, but when you talk about skills, its clear who has the upper hand.[/quote]

Defences were a lot tougher back then. Look at the Detroit and New York teams Jordan had to face with guys like Dumars, Starks, Doc Rivers, Michael Cooper. They weren’t called the Bad Boys for nothing. Also, centers would foul you hard if you came to the hoop. Regular fouls back then would be called as technicals these days. The game was so much more physical with hand checking (like WhiteFlash said).

A 40 year old Jordan was still dropping 40 point games during his second comeback just a few years ago. A prime Jordan today could easily average 40ppg in my opinion.

69

I just watched the whole thing.Well that was pretty awesome.
So can someone explain to me what the fuck were ppl in the media complaining about? What was wrong with that speech?

70

[quote]jCaesar88 wrote:
I just watched the whole thing.Well that was pretty awesome.
So can someone explain to me what the fuck were ppl in the media complaining about? What was wrong with that speech?[/quote]

They are idiots.

71

[quote]Reef wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
matko5 wrote:
Out of all todays “superstar” only Kobe has a chance to reach MJ’s greatness.

A few more championships and he’ll be there.

As said before, there’s enough time, any his performance in this years NBA Finals was simply amazing.

Winning more championships wouldn’t matter IMO. MJ never lost a finals, never. None of them even went to 7 games, he did what had to be done to win.
Kobe also started his career earlier than MJ thus giving him more chances for titles. Not the strongest case there, but it does give an advantage to Kobe with that one

And even if Kobe did surpassed/tied Jordan’s accomplishments, I honestly dont think people would give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and call him the G.O.A.T. They hate him too much for that.

What’s not up for debates though is the FACT that SKILL WISE, Kobe is better than Michael. Kobe’s basketball skills is unparalleled IMO. Jordan was obviously more physically gifted, but like the Zen Master tells it, Kobe is more skilled than Michael was even in his prime.

Here’s the Phil Jackson interview:

Uh, no. I already said Bryant’s the best one-on-one offensive player of all time. He has a better handle and a better outside shot, not to mention a better off [left] hand. With that, even young skinny Jordan was better around the bucket and no one outside of Allen Iverson has/had the same level of basketball quickness [that doesn’t mean end to end speed]. Jordan was also a much better man defender and as competitive Bryant is he can’t fuck with Jordan. I ran into Orlando Woolridge a couple of years ago sitting at a bar at a mexican restaurant. Woolridge was with the Bulls Jordan’s rookie year. We talked about all kinds of stuff, but my first question was “Was Mike really that goo…” and before I could put the “d” on good he said “Brother, you have no idea.” He started tellin’ stories about how Jordan dominated practices from day one and would dunk on and talk shit to everone, ha. Jordan dealt with hand checks, Bryant deals with zones. The facts are that the early 80’s-mid 90’s was basketball’s golden age, and the level of basketball being played then will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.

That’s where you miss the whole “different eras” homie. Do you honestly think that a zone defense is gonna allow jordan to penetrate like he did back when it was strictly man-to-man? He got into the lane easier back then. Why do you think Kobe perfected his outside and perimeter shooting? Because now they can throw different types of defense on him.

And if you run into Derek Fisher one day, he’ll tell you the same thing Woolridge said. Plus, can you really dispute what the ZEN MASTER who coached them both, when he says Kobe had better basketball skills than Michael?

If anyone had a say, its Phil Jackson. And that interview speaks for itself. Kobe had better basketball skills. MJ obviously utilized his large hands and physique, but when you talk about skills, its clear who has the upper hand.

Defences were a lot tougher back then. Look at the Detroit and New York teams Jordan had to face with guys like Dumars, Starks, Doc Rivers, Michael Cooper. They weren’t called the Bad Boys for nothing. Also, centers would foul you hard if you came to the hoop. Regular fouls back then would be called as technicals these days. The game was so much more physical with hand checking (like WhiteFlash said).

A 40 year old Jordan was still dropping 40 point games during his second comeback just a few years ago. A prime Jordan today could easily average 40ppg in my opinion.[/quote]

Took the words out my mouth, although I wouldn’t say easily avg 40. What Kobe did a few years ago [81 against Toronto, 62 in 34 min outscoring the entire Mavericks team] is so impressive it’s ridiculous, and I still maintain he’s a better offensive player. Said that from the jump. I think he has better skills with the ball, but there’s a lot more to the game than having the ball in your hands.

72

[quote]Reef wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
waldo21212 wrote:
Michael Jordan = most famous athlete to ever walk the face of the earth. And I liked his speech.

No, not really… one or two soccer players have been more famous if we talk globally IMO. But I would say MJ is the -best- athlete to ever walk the face of the earth.

Mohammad Ali?[/quote]

Pele, Ali, Jordan. Those are the 3 universal athletes I can think of, although Ali may or may not make the cut in certain parts of the world (SE Asia)

73

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Reef wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
matko5 wrote:
Out of all todays “superstar” only Kobe has a chance to reach MJ’s greatness.

A few more championships and he’ll be there.

As said before, there’s enough time, any his performance in this years NBA Finals was simply amazing.

Winning more championships wouldn’t matter IMO. MJ never lost a finals, never. None of them even went to 7 games, he did what had to be done to win.
Kobe also started his career earlier than MJ thus giving him more chances for titles. Not the strongest case there, but it does give an advantage to Kobe with that one

And even if Kobe did surpassed/tied Jordan’s accomplishments, I honestly dont think people would give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and call him the G.O.A.T. They hate him too much for that.

What’s not up for debates though is the FACT that SKILL WISE, Kobe is better than Michael. Kobe’s basketball skills is unparalleled IMO. Jordan was obviously more physically gifted, but like the Zen Master tells it, Kobe is more skilled than Michael was even in his prime.

Here’s the Phil Jackson interview:

Uh, no. I already said Bryant’s the best one-on-one offensive player of all time. He has a better handle and a better outside shot, not to mention a better off [left] hand. With that, even young skinny Jordan was better around the bucket and no one outside of Allen Iverson has/had the same level of basketball quickness [that doesn’t mean end to end speed]. Jordan was also a much better man defender and as competitive Bryant is he can’t fuck with Jordan. I ran into Orlando Woolridge a couple of years ago sitting at a bar at a mexican restaurant. Woolridge was with the Bulls Jordan’s rookie year. We talked about all kinds of stuff, but my first question was “Was Mike really that goo…” and before I could put the “d” on good he said “Brother, you have no idea.” He started tellin’ stories about how Jordan dominated practices from day one and would dunk on and talk shit to everone, ha. Jordan dealt with hand checks, Bryant deals with zones. The facts are that the early 80’s-mid 90’s was basketball’s golden age, and the level of basketball being played then will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.

That’s where you miss the whole “different eras” homie. Do you honestly think that a zone defense is gonna allow jordan to penetrate like he did back when it was strictly man-to-man? He got into the lane easier back then. Why do you think Kobe perfected his outside and perimeter shooting? Because now they can throw different types of defense on him.

And if you run into Derek Fisher one day, he’ll tell you the same thing Woolridge said. Plus, can you really dispute what the ZEN MASTER who coached them both, when he says Kobe had better basketball skills than Michael?

If anyone had a say, its Phil Jackson. And that interview speaks for itself. Kobe had better basketball skills. MJ obviously utilized his large hands and physique, but when you talk about skills, its clear who has the upper hand.

Defences were a lot tougher back then. Look at the Detroit and New York teams Jordan had to face with guys like Dumars, Starks, Doc Rivers, Michael Cooper. They weren’t called the Bad Boys for nothing. Also, centers would foul you hard if you came to the hoop. Regular fouls back then would be called as technicals these days. The game was so much more physical with hand checking (like WhiteFlash said).

A 40 year old Jordan was still dropping 40 point games during his second comeback just a few years ago. A prime Jordan today could easily average 40ppg in my opinion.

Took the words out my mouth, although I wouldn’t say easily avg 40. What Kobe did a few years ago [81 against Toronto, 62 in 34 min outscoring the entire Mavericks team, 35 and change for the season] is so impressive it’s ridiculous, and I still maintain he’s a better offensive player. Said that from the jump. I think he has better skills with the ball, but there’s a lot more to the game than having the ball in your hands.[/quote]

I remember that game very clearly since I’m a huge Raps fan. I was embarrassed and pissed off at Sam Mitchell for not even doubling Kobe and leaving our worst defenders on Kobe but at the same time I knew I was witnessing history.

I agree Kobe’s a better ball handler and 3pt shooter, but I’d say Jordan probably had a better mid-range game and a superior post game.

74

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.

Jordan age 21: 28.2 PPG, 6.5 Reb, 5.9 Ast, eFG%: .518, TO%: 13%, 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 22: Was hurt most of the season, back for playoffs but 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 23: 37.1 PPG, 5.2 Reb, 4.6 Ast, eFG%: .484, TO%: 9.1%, 1st-round playoff loss
Jordan age 24: 35.0 PPG, 5.5 Reb, 5.9 Ast, eFG%: .537, TO%: 9.6%, 2nd-round playoff loss

Lebron age 21: 31.4 PPG, 7.0 Reb, 6.6 Ast, eFG%: .515, TO%: 10.7%, 2nd-round playoff loss
Lebron age 22: 27.3 PPG, 6.7 Reb, 6.0 Ast, eFG%: .507, TO%: 11.5%, Lost in the NBA Finals
Lebron age 23: 30.0 PPG, 7.9 Reb, 7.2 Ast, eFG%: .518, TO%: 11.4%, 2nd-round playoff loss
Lebron age 24: 28.4 PPG, 7.6 Reb, 7.2 Ast, eFG%: .530, TO%: 11.0%, Lost in Conference Finals

Lebron’s playing style makes it unlikely that he will ever match Jordan’s 37 points per game, but that season Jordan also took more shots than anybody in NBA history not named Wilt Chamberlain.

I think people forget that Jordan didn’t even get to the Finals until his 7th season in the league. By then, his supporting cast was definitely superior to what Lebron has had. It’s unlikely that Lebron will ever match Jordan’s total career, but if you compare them by age or by season, Lebron compares very well to what Jordan had done at similar stages in their career.

However, Jordan’s 7th season, what Lebron is about to enter, is where he really came into his own and started to become the greatest. I don’t think Lebron will get to that level, but you certainly can’t rule it out.
[/quote]

J, the NBA was different then. It was an old boys club, and it was much less about marketing the individual and more about the team. Jordan had to get through Boston, Detroit, Cleveland [who at the time Magic said was the future of the league], the Knicks, etc… He wasn’t getting favorable calls all of the time initially. The NBA’s changed now. Lebron james walks on the court and he’s gauranteed to be playing 8-on-5. And, when the refs advantage isn’t enough and they still lose [see the Orlando series for proof] he sulks like a baby. What you’re also forgetting is that Jordan was a lockdown man defender. James plays good weak side help defense, but he ain’t shutting anyone down.

75

[quote]drewh wrote:
Lebron has three years to get a ship if he wants to stay on track with MJ. He’s done more with less than MJ so far anyway. He literally took a team to the finals, once he gets a legit supporting cast we’ll see how good he can be. And quit with the travelling makes them better bull shit you’re probably one of those idiots who thinks college ball is better because they play defense and have fundementals. You really believe Jordan didn’t get away with stuff.[/quote]

I’m not saying Jordan didn’t get away with stuff numbnuts. I’m saying he earned his. Jordan played in a better NBA that was less about hype and more about the game. James signed a 90 million dollar deal before playing a single game, and the NBA [and espn, and fox sports, and…] shoves him down our throats at every possible moment. You remember the “crab dribble”? That was a fucking travel and he got called for it. The fact that it got called blew James’ mind 'cause he’s gotten away with whatever he wanted so far and he couldn’t understand how the ref got it right. James can play, and so can Wade, but the NBA’s pushing them so hard 'cause the league took a huge hit in the early 2000’s with the “thugification” of basketball, and these two seemingly wholesome guys can help redeem it. Anyone really think Miami beat Dallas that year, or that Wade really got fouled enough to go to the line more than an entire team? O how about James? This past first round he had shot more ft’s by himself than the Pistons had the entire series. If you can’t see that there’s something shady going on you’re blind.

76

[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
matko5 wrote:
Out of all todays “superstar” only Kobe has a chance to reach MJ’s greatness.

A few more championships and he’ll be there.

As said before, there’s enough time, any his performance in this years NBA Finals was simply amazing.

Winning more championships wouldn’t matter IMO. MJ never lost a finals, never. None of them even went to 7 games, he did what had to be done to win.
Kobe also started his career earlier than MJ thus giving him more chances for titles. Not the strongest case there, but it does give an advantage to Kobe with that one

And even if Kobe did surpassed/tied Jordan’s accomplishments, I honestly dont think people would give Kobe the benefit of the doubt and call him the G.O.A.T. They hate him too much for that.

What’s not up for debates though is the FACT that SKILL WISE, Kobe is better than Michael. Kobe’s basketball skills is unparalleled IMO. Jordan was obviously more physically gifted, but like the Zen Master tells it, Kobe is more skilled than Michael was even in his prime.

Here’s the Phil Jackson interview:

Uh, no. I already said Bryant’s the best one-on-one offensive player of all time. He has a better handle and a better outside shot, not to mention a better off [left] hand. With that, even young skinny Jordan was better around the bucket and no one outside of Allen Iverson has/had the same level of basketball quickness [that doesn’t mean end to end speed]. Jordan was also a much better man defender and as competitive Bryant is he can’t fuck with Jordan. I ran into Orlando Woolridge a couple of years ago sitting at a bar at a mexican restaurant. Woolridge was with the Bulls Jordan’s rookie year. We talked about all kinds of stuff, but my first question was “Was Mike really that goo…” and before I could put the “d” on good he said “Brother, you have no idea.” He started tellin’ stories about how Jordan dominated practices from day one and would dunk on and talk shit to everone, ha. Jordan dealt with hand checks, Bryant deals with zones. The facts are that the early 80’s-mid 90’s was basketball’s golden age, and the level of basketball being played then will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. And no matter what happens on an NBA court during the next 50 years or so you better believe that no other player will ever be higher than second on the GOAT list.

That’s where you miss the whole “different eras” homie. Do you honestly think that a zone defense is gonna allow jordan to penetrate like he did back when it was strictly man-to-man? He got into the lane easier back then. Why do you think Kobe perfected his outside and perimeter shooting? Because now they can throw different types of defense on him.

And if you run into Derek Fisher one day, he’ll tell you the same thing Woolridge said. Plus, can you really dispute what the ZEN MASTER who coached them both, when he says Kobe had better basketball skills than Michael?

If anyone had a say, its Phil Jackson. And that interview speaks for itself. Kobe had better basketball skills. MJ obviously utilized his large hands and physique, but when you talk about skills, its clear who has the upper hand.[/quote]

Phil Jackson only said Kobe was a better outside player. this question can settle it right now though; who would you want in the play offs, Kobe or Jordan? I’d take Jordan all day everyday.

77

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

Phil Jackson only said Kobe was a better outside player. this question can settle it right now though; who would you want in the play offs, Kobe or Jordan? I’d take Jordan all day everyday.[/quote]

even with the flu :wink:

78

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
…[/quote]

Oh don’t get me wrong, I agree with pretty much everything you said there. However, I think people tend to forget it took Jordan a about 6 years to really become JORDAN. He did turn into a lockdown defender, I would say by around his 4th year or so in the league, the 87-88 season. Before that though, and especially in his Carolina years, he was kind of in the Lebron, “great on the weakside help for steals leading to breakaway dunks and always a threat to come out of nowhere to block a shot” but it took him a little while to turn into one of the best defenders ever. He had the benefit of some good defensive coaches though and I don’t know if Lebron is ever going to turn that corner.

Jordan made “the leap” around his 7th season and went to another level that probably only Wilt (never saw him, just from stats) was at. I don’t think Lebron will make that same jump, but he’s got the physical tools and also the basketball sense that it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

79

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
…

Oh don’t get me wrong, I agree with pretty much everything you said there. However, I think people tend to forget it took Jordan a about 6 years to really become JORDAN. He did turn into a lockdown defender, I would say by around his 4th year or so in the league, the 87-88 season. Before that though, and especially in his Carolina years, he was kind of in the Lebron, “great on the weakside help for steals leading to breakaway dunks and always a threat to come out of nowhere to block a shot” but it took him a little while to turn into one of the best defenders ever. He had the benefit of some good defensive coaches though and I don’t know if Lebron is ever going to turn that corner.

Jordan made “the leap” around his 7th season and went to another level that probably only Wilt (never saw him, just from stats) was at. I don’t think Lebron will make that same jump, but he’s got the physical tools and also the basketball sense that it’s not out of the realm of possibility.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying, and pretty much agree aside from I just don’t see the fire necessary to reach that level in James. As you pointed out he has time on his side, just think that “fire” is something you’re born with, and no amount of time will get you it if you weren’t.

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[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Reef wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
waldo21212 wrote:
Michael Jordan = most famous athlete to ever walk the face of the earth. And I liked his speech.

No, not really… one or two soccer players have been more famous if we talk globally IMO. But I would say MJ is the -best- athlete to ever walk the face of the earth.

Mohammad Ali?

Pele, Ali, Jordan. Those are the 3 universal athletes I can think of, although Ali may or may not make the cut in certain parts of the world (SE Asia)[/quote]

Jordan in his prime was the most famous ever. Sorry but America counts, and pele could’ walked around in many cities in america without getting noticed. Jordan was noticed everywhere when Team USA was big. Ali would’ve been the most famous ever if they had better media, in his prime he is only second to MJ, but half of it is because the muslim community heavily embraced him and is the biggest religion world wide I believe. At least at that time.

Kobe the best one on one player ever??? Get the fuck outta here, Paul Pierce AND Raja Bell proved that theory wrong. Take the blinders off.

Does he have the most offensive weaponry… YES. In terms of the number of moves, YES. Ball handling is not all that but good for a shooting guard, Shot is water except under extreme pressure from taller quicker guys, but shear number of moves probably most ever or tied with Oscar Robertson. One on one, Jordan’s one turn around fade away move way more dependable then all of Kobe’s together.

In Jordan era from '89 to '99 he was the most dominant player. Kobe has NEVER been the most dominant player. Shaq was able to take 3 different teams to the finals he was the most dominant player in the league.

Comparing first 5 years Lebron is having twice as much success as Jordan did, he has the POTENTIAL to be the best ever. How can you question the mental toughness of somebody doing all he’s doing without a pippen. His team would be trash with someone else.

Dwayne wade doesn’t have a chance he’s too short has to play too hard leading to injuries later, but he will be hall of fame.