Mexican Loyalties in the United States

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I think Mexico would be ok if they could get rid of their corrupt officials there. I know people will yell and say we have corrupt officials, and we certainly do. But their gap between rich and poor is even wider than we have here in the US.

It is wider, and that is what I’m saying. Mexico is not umpteen poorer than the USA, the problem is their rich are greedy and don’t provide shyt for their lower classes and try to deny upward mobility as much as possible. They’ve turned their issues with social inequity and poverty into a international scam syphoning cash out of th USA into Mexico.

SOCIALIST!

:wink:

Well, at least, I’m a right wing socialist. In the case of Mexico the upper classes did not get there from hardwork, innovation and ability. For the most part they are kleptocrats or descendants of privilege, that just syphon the nation’s wealth into their bank accounts.

Sounds like the US. [/quote]

SOCIALIST!

If you were able to put illegal immigration to a halt, I would be curious to see how it would affect Mexico and it’s economy. I have a feeling it would cause an overwhelming collapse or at least a huge burden.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
If you were able to put illegal immigration to a halt, I would be curious to see how it would affect Mexico and it’s economy. I have a feeling it would cause an overwhelming collapse or at least a huge burden.[/quote]

They’d probably just kill off their leaders and start over again. It happens every 50-100 years or so down there. It’s been going on since before Cortez landed.

I doubt it, the contribution of the illegals is not such it’d make the economy collapse. It definetely would be a severe recession, and they’d have to accomadate a bunch of people returning home with skills that are geared towards luxury services.

The US auto manufacturers would slump in Truck sales tho…lol. Ostrich boot manufacturers would report record losses!

For real, one thing that I hate about Latin culture is the guilt loser family members, especially older ones, try to put on younger ones, to take care of them, especially when they get old. It’s disgusting because you’ll give people the money they supposedly need and then they will go and eat out and buy luxuries with it.

This is the case with the families of many illegals, they send the money home and those dumbfukks buy f-150s on loan and all nice boots and hats. They are so fucking stupid, it’s not like the Asians, where someone does restaurant work to let another go to school, and the other returns the favor. They just blow it all on material shit, and most often not education.

Me and my sister, and my two cousins are basically going to end up sending off an 1/8 of our income to support, our Aunt’s retirement…because she has none. Instead she spent her whole life eating nice dinners, partying and travelling as much as possible. So despite that she did that when she was our age without any self restriction, now that we are at that age, we are going to have to syphon money to support her, because she never had any kids and never got an education.

In Latin culture that is morally acceptable, in fact, if I abandoned my Aunt that’d be absolute sacrilege. I don’t know how it is in other cultures, but I think that is very fukked up. I suffer so you can party. It seems like in every Latin family it is like this.

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I certainly don’t live in california or anywhere like it, but I’m not culturally isolated. I’m not mocking you either, that’s just a funny clip.

The only way to solve the immigrant situation in the u.s. is for our government to help support the Mexican economy. Not just with donations, but we should also be more than willing to work with there government to help create jobs on their side of the border. They are our neighbors after all.
You’re an idiot. In saying this you have demonstrated that you are not entitled to have an opinion on the subject.

Mexico is the 11th biggest economy in the world. The gross per capita of Mexico City, is 30 grand a year USD, and this is a city of 25 million people. Mexico is more than capable of preventing much of the poverty in their country, however, they are run by corrupt oligarchs who do not want to invest into the well being of the lower classes so…they encourage illegal immigration as what would otherwise be a netloss, turns into a profit, amount to about 20 billion dollars a year from their illegal invasion of the Norte.

Mexico has no armed forces trying to prevent the illegals from crossing over, yet have garrissons upon garrisons guarding their southern border so they do not have to absorb poorer central americans stialing their jobs and services…ironic isn’t it?

The USA owes Mexico nothing, in the same way, I owe you nothing and you owe me nothing. Noone helped the USA develop itself, the people met the resources, and made their civilization. This is how all nations must be built.

Now cry on your crabcake in your pos pseudo-European state while the rest of us deal with the realities of living in places that have large plebian classes, and not just crusty old living-dead white people who encourage their nephews to fuck eachother in the ass and get married, because those are the kind of life-changing questions you irrelevant New England partricians are so passionate about, while the rest of us deal with life’s real issues.[/quote]

Oh, WOOOOW!!! Thanks Bro!!! I Bet you were so happy to deal me that verbose list of facts while simultaneously being a prejudiced and sexist asshole. Not really in the mood for your kind of debate ( so please don’t continue it), but you can’t really call it that when you degrade the man your discussing matters with. You must feel so pleased to use a word like “plebeian” in a sentence.

I wasn’t aware that Mexicos Economy was booming, but the focus of my point doesn’t change. America has a stake in Mexico’s ability to create jobs. Period. Whatever the cause of Mexico’s inability to provide work for it’s people (be it economic, or political) , it has clearly effected us. If that’s not a reason for a cooperative effort from our governments or at least an effort from us to solve the issue I don’t know what would be. The lower Mexican classes need jobs, and they have to find them somewhere be it here or there.

[quote]Oh, WOOOOW!!! Thanks Bro!!! I Bet you were so happy to deal me that verbose list of facts while simultaneously being a prejudiced and sexist asshole. Not really in the mood for your kind of debate ( so please don’t continue it), but you can’t really call it that when you degrade the man your discussing matters with. You must feel so pleased to use a word like “plebeian” in a sentence.

I wasn’t aware that Mexicos Economy was booming, but the focus of my point doesn’t change. America has a stake in Mexico’s ability to create jobs. Period. Whatever the cause of Mexico’s inability to provide work for it’s people (be it economic, or political) , it has clearly effected us. If that’s not a reason for a cooperative effort from our governments or at least an effort from us to solve the issue I don’t know what would be. The lower Mexican classes need jobs, and they have to find them somewhere be it here or there.
[/quote]
I was more just being a dick for humorous effect, I don’t typically debate like that.
The wierd thing, is Mexico actually has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, their unemployment rate is less than half or what ours is. Strange isn’t it?

Perhaps their rate is lower cuz indeed are, ‘stealin arr jerbs.’ Who knows.

[quote]3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I think Mexico would be ok if they could get rid of their corrupt officials there. I know people will yell and say we have corrupt officials, and we certainly do. But their gap between rich and poor is even wider than we have here in the US.

It is wider, and that is what I’m saying. Mexico is not umpteen poorer than the USA, the problem is their rich are greedy and don’t provide shyt for their lower classes and try to deny upward mobility as much as possible. They’ve turned their issues with social inequity and poverty into a international scam syphoning cash out of th USA into Mexico.[/quote]

Where as in the US all the monied people are just desperate to hand it over to the poorer classes. I see them marching and screaming at town hall meetings about how much they want to give over more money.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
That is true, I read somewhere that Mexico’s #2 GDP is the money sent back by illegal aliens in the US, right behind their oil production. I am surprised they have not had a revolution on their own government. Usually, the people are very nice there, they just cannot get anything going because their government provides them no opportunity, along with the drug cartels screwing it up. [/quote]

They have had a revolution on their government. And a lot of the rich people here have made their money either through drugs or through construction.

WE NEED FLIPPING JOBS. The U-6 unemployment rate is up to 17.6%. I watch a bunch of Mexicans do all the construction jobs Americans used to do in this state next door to my apartment every single day. Where’s your compassion for your own countrymen?

Honestly, I agree with this. It used to be young college age men, and high schoolers could get a job doing some hard labor over the summer, because they’d work cheaper than some union laborers. These jobs aren’t available anymore, as it’s all some upper 20s to 40+ illegals doing this work.

WHile you might say, 'O Americans don’t wanna do this work." For me having that opportunity be there might have been alot better than waiting some tables like some emasculated girl man.

LOL. Seriously

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I think Mexico would be ok if they could get rid of their corrupt officials there. I know people will yell and say we have corrupt officials, and we certainly do. But their gap between rich and poor is even wider than we have here in the US.

It is wider, and that is what I’m saying. Mexico is not umpteen poorer than the USA, the problem is their rich are greedy and don’t provide shyt for their lower classes and try to deny upward mobility as much as possible. They’ve turned their issues with social inequity and poverty into a international scam syphoning cash out of th USA into Mexico.

SOCIALIST!

:wink:

Well, at least, I’m a right wing socialist. In the case of Mexico the upper classes did not get there from hardwork, innovation and ability. For the most part they are kleptocrats or descendants of privilege, that just syphon the nation’s wealth into their bank accounts.

Sounds like the US.

SOCIALIST![/quote]

Actually, I hadn’t looked at these numbers for a few years so I decided to look it up. I found some conflicting data. Looks like the CIA factbook lists the Gini is about the same for the US and Mexico at 45 and 46 respectively. (Map above). Translation, the social inequality in the US and Mexico is about the same.*

However the UN Human Development report does list a disparity.** According to them, the US is 13th in the world with 40.8. Mexico is 55th with 48.1. The UN report seems more in line with anecdotal information that we have on this thread. However, I personally have used the CIA’s numbers more… not really sure if either is less political though.

The difference seems to be the GDP per capita. The US (PPP) is 47,440 this is 6th in the World. Mexico is 14,534. This is 55th in the world.***

Nominal GDP in the US is 14,441,425 (1st in the world). Mexico is 1,088,128 (13th in the world). *** So, 3IdSpetsnaz was about right on overall size. But there seems to be some question about how equitable the distribution is. I think it should also be pointed out that the Human Development Index (HDI) lists the US in the “very high human development” group and Mexico in the “high human development” group.

*I realize this will be “not science” and “piss poor” for some posters. Instead of asking stupid questions, educate yourself. Here is the wiki link: Gini coefficient - Wikipedia
**http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/indicators/161.html
***Google is your friend. I quickly looked on wiki.

Here’s the other map showing greater inequality in Mexico

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I wasn’t aware that Mexicos Economy was booming, but the focus of my point doesn’t change. America has a stake in Mexico’s ability to create jobs. Period. Whatever the cause of Mexico’s inability to provide work for it’s people (be it economic, or political) , it has clearly effected us. If that’s not a reason for a cooperative effort from our governments or at least an effort from us to solve the issue I don’t know what would be. The lower Mexican classes need jobs, and they have to find them somewhere be it here or there.

WE NEED FLIPPING JOBS. The U-6 unemployment rate is up to 17.6%. I watch a bunch of Mexicans do all the construction jobs Americans used to do in this state next door to my apartment every single day. Where’s your compassion for your own countrymen?

[/quote]

Absolutely, we have to take of our economic concerns at the moment. However Sticking a band aid like a giant wall on top of this problem doesn’t make any sense. Mexico is internally bleeding, the problem has to eventually be solved at the source.

Americans did all these so-called jobs, until corporations discovered that they could get illegals to come and do it for half or even less. Construction jobs used to pay good money for skilled work, now citizens and legal residents can’t compete. They really should hammer down on these companies, they really are a huge factor into the immigration issue.

[quote]Schlenkatank wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I wasn’t aware that Mexicos Economy was booming, but the focus of my point doesn’t change. America has a stake in Mexico’s ability to create jobs. Period. Whatever the cause of Mexico’s inability to provide work for it’s people (be it economic, or political) , it has clearly effected us. If that’s not a reason for a cooperative effort from our governments or at least an effort from us to solve the issue I don’t know what would be. The lower Mexican classes need jobs, and they have to find them somewhere be it here or there.

WE NEED FLIPPING JOBS. The U-6 unemployment rate is up to 17.6%. I watch a bunch of Mexicans do all the construction jobs Americans used to do in this state next door to my apartment every single day. Where’s your compassion for your own countrymen?

Absolutely, we have to take of our economic concerns at the moment. However Sticking a band aid like a giant wall on top of this problem doesn’t make any sense. Mexico is internally bleeding, the problem has to eventually be solved at the source.[/quote]

Mexico is the way Mexico is because it’s full of Mexicans. Unless you have a plan to somehow replace them with Germans, it will likely remain that way. It is not our problem. We gave them NAFTA, thousands of manufacturing jobs were sucked down there with none created up here, and they still couldn’t pull it together. 39 million of them STILL want to move here.

Mexico is ruled under Napoleonic law. They have no gun rights, rape is practically unpunished, theft is seen as the fault of the person being robbed, and a huge percentage of people are involved in trafficking of one type or another. A good chunk of the populace is illiterate and doesn’t even speak Spanish, rather their native Indian language.

Pulling them out of the 18th century is not our job.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2Q3YTQxNTVjZjRhM2U4ZTdjNmM4NmQ0N2RmNWU5YWQ

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
If you were able to put illegal immigration to a halt, I would be curious to see how it would affect Mexico and it’s economy. I have a feeling it would cause an overwhelming collapse or at least a huge burden.

They’d probably just kill off their leaders and start over again. It happens every 50-100 years or so down there. It’s been going on since before Cortez landed. [/quote]

Wait…

This could actually work!

I think the problem with too stable democracies is that their politicians forget that they can be put against a wall too.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
3IdSpetsnaz wrote:
I think Mexico would be ok if they could get rid of their corrupt officials there. I know people will yell and say we have corrupt officials, and we certainly do. But their gap between rich and poor is even wider than we have here in the US.

It is wider, and that is what I’m saying. Mexico is not umpteen poorer than the USA, the problem is their rich are greedy and don’t provide shyt for their lower classes and try to deny upward mobility as much as possible. They’ve turned their issues with social inequity and poverty into a international scam syphoning cash out of th USA into Mexico.

Where as in the US all the monied people are just desperate to hand it over to the poorer classes. I see them marching and screaming at town hall meetings about how much they want to give over more money.[/quote]

Just watch an episode of cribs and you see how they give money to the working poor.

Just because they do not prostrate themselves, cover their head in ashes and make amends for being so damn successful does not mean that they do not provide an invaluable service to the poor by their sheer existence.