By the time I was 12, I had every molar filled with amalgam fillings. The last time I went to my dentist, he asked if I had considered getting them removed and replaced with what I am guessing is the composite stuff.
It wouldn’t have cost much at all, since at the time I was covered for 90% of the cost by insurance. I wonder if he was just looking for work LOL, because these fillings have never caused even the slightest problem and they’ve been in my mouth for 30+ years.
[quote]dianab wrote:
By the time I was 12, I had every molar filled with amalgam fillings. The last time I went to my dentist, he asked if I had considered getting them removed and replaced with what I am guessing is the composite stuff.
It wouldn’t have cost much at all, since at the time I was covered for 90% of the cost by insurance. I wonder if he was just looking for work LOL, because these fillings have never caused even the slightest problem and they’ve been in my mouth for 30+ years. [/quote]
My last cavity happened around age 11, and, at that time (late 70s) amalgam was the thing. I have amalgam in four molars and the fillings which have lasted over 3 decades with no issues.
If one starts to fail, I’ll get it replaced. But I’ve heard it’s best to leave amalgam fillings alone as long as they are functioning. As for the mercury exposure - I heard that more of the Hg gets released when old fillings are pulled out than would be if they’re left alone. So my take is, unless you NEED to have 'em replaced, don’t bother.
I’m open to being convinced otherwise, but the problem is that this is one of those areas like electromagnetic fields, flouridation, and aspartame where it’s hard to tell where real concerns end and the new age quackery begins.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hint: If a doctor who handles the stuff for 50 years doesn’t get sick, maybe you should take note of that.
.[/quote]
So in your mind, handling a substance with gloves and having it implanted in your mouth for decades is the same thing?
Ridiculous.
BBB[/quote]
No, in my mind, I know that most dentists in America didn’t start wearing gloves in th clinic until the late 70’s. Before that, the common act was to simply wash hands between patients. That means there are many dentists still practicing (possibly near retirement) who still remember not wearing gloves in the clinic…and it was THIS time that amalgam use was at its absolute highest.
You see, that is the difference between the guy who does this for a living…and the guy just talking about it.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me.
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me. [/quote]
This is 100% truth. Galvanic shock is a possibility if there are two opposing metals, but there are no sparks being sent into someone’s nerve due to a metal filling.
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me. [/quote]
I’m not sure where I fall on this, but why would it need to be a dissimilar metal? We are not talking about galvanic corrosion. Like metals conduct current all the time.
Also, if Dentin is insulative to the nerve, why would you feel nerve sensation if the filling comes in contact with another metal?
edit* posted before I saw the prof’s response about galvanic shock.
People worry about the smallest things.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
People worry about the smallest things.[/quote]
If medical experts told you mercury fillings drastically reduce testosterone, you’d not think it a small thing.
lol
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
In my opinion, mercury shouldn’t be anywhere near your body. Especially in you mouth.
[/quote]
I second this.
I have seen cases where every muscle in the body tested weak - until the fillings were replaced with a more ‘friendly’ material, at which point the patient tested strong and the general malaise they complained of went away.
BBB[/quote]
Placebo effect? Don’t discount the power of the mind in creating symptoms and improvements. What of the very large number of people with amalgam fillings who don’t complain of any malaise, or muscle weakness, or MS symptoms, etc…?[/quote]
What about the large number of people who feel and perform better when they eliminate wheat and dairy, yet are not classically ‘intolerant’?
Let me guess, this was taught to you at dental school? Do you really think that a profession that puts mercury into peoples mouths would be the most objective regarding mercury toxicity?
Besides, it’s more to do with electrical potentials affecting the CNS, than microleakage.
BBB[/quote]
Ridiculous.
Hint: If a doctor who handles the stuff for 50 years doesn’t get sick, maybe you should take note of that.
The biggest risk is during condensation of the material into a cavity prep…which means the doc is at greater risk because this is when the mercury is pushed out of the filling before it sets…with the initial set happening within 5-10min usually before the procedure is over.
That wasn’t learned at dental school but in damn near a decade of practice after the fact.
I personally do not have anything against dental amalgams in most people, but I also know many dentists avoid them today simply because of the esthetics issue.
The alternative is a composite filling or an onlay/inlay.
Composite fillings have about a 5 years+ life in the mouth of most people with 10 years pushing it before it needs to be replaced. Amalgams are sturdier, last longer, and are what I would choose to out in the mouth of someone who I was convinced would not be receiving regular dental treatment and who had poor oral hygiene because of the factors mentioned earlier.
If someone has good oral hygiene and sees a dentist regularly, there is nothing wrong with composite fillings and they do look better.
COST is a major factor as well because tons of people love to talk a good game, but the truth is, most will see the bill for an inlay/onlay, notice the 5-800 dollar difference, notice what insurance pays and then choose the amalgam because it costs less.[/quote]
Your saying the white filling material cost 5 to 800 more than silver? That can’t be true. If it is, its pure robbery on the part of whoever manufactures that stuff. The amount of material required for a single filling is less than 500 dollars worth of platinum. Probably.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Composite fillings have about a 5 years+ life in the mouth of most people with 10 years pushing it before it needs to be replaced. Amalgams are sturdier, last longer, and are what I would choose to out in the mouth of someone who I was convinced would not be receiving regular dental treatment and who had poor oral hygiene because of the factors mentioned earlier.
I[/quote]
Also, on this…
I’ve got a white filling that I’ve had since I was a teenager so it’s probably close to 30 years old. i have no problem with it and my dentist doesn’t either. Curiously, 15 years ago some other dentist (the same one who didn’t see me because I was ten minutes late) showed me a high res picture of the filling showing how it was highly cracked and needed to come out. The picture was very convincing and when I moved up here I figured I’d have to have it taken care of. My new dentist looked at it and said it was fine and that they all look cracked up like that under magnification.
Since I haven’t had trouble with it I have to conclude the second guy is right. Also more honorable.
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me. [/quote]
Although one could make the case with the millions of tubules in the teeth that the delivery is still happening. What about the argument that the mercury in the mouth is vaporizing over time (chewing, hot liquids, etc) and then the inhalation into the lungs and distribution through the body that way?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me. [/quote]
This is 100% truth. Galvanic shock is a possibility if there are two opposing metals, but there are no sparks being sent into someone’s nerve due to a metal filling.
[/quote]
Don’t quite understand as all amalgams are a composite of mercury and some other metal but what about people with metal fillings and gold crowns or titanium implants?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
In my opinion, mercury shouldn’t be anywhere near your body. Especially in you mouth.
[/quote]
I second this.
I have seen cases where every muscle in the body tested weak - until the fillings were replaced with a more ‘friendly’ material, at which point the patient tested strong and the general malaise they complained of went away.
BBB[/quote]
Placebo effect? Don’t discount the power of the mind in creating symptoms and improvements. What of the very large number of people with amalgam fillings who don’t complain of any malaise, or muscle weakness, or MS symptoms, etc…?[/quote]
What about the large number of people who feel and perform better when they eliminate wheat and dairy, yet are not classically ‘intolerant’?
Let me guess, this was taught to you at dental school? Do you really think that a profession that puts mercury into peoples mouths would be the most objective regarding mercury toxicity?
Besides, it’s more to do with electrical potentials affecting the CNS, than microleakage.
BBB[/quote]
Ridiculous.
Hint: If a doctor who handles the stuff for 50 years doesn’t get sick, maybe you should take note of that.
The biggest risk is during condensation of the material into a cavity prep…which means the doc is at greater risk because this is when the mercury is pushed out of the filling before it sets…with the initial set happening within 5-10min usually before the procedure is over.
That wasn’t learned at dental school but in damn near a decade of practice after the fact.
I personally do not have anything against dental amalgams in most people, but I also know many dentists avoid them today simply because of the esthetics issue.
The alternative is a composite filling or an onlay/inlay.
Composite fillings have about a 5 years+ life in the mouth of most people with 10 years pushing it before it needs to be replaced. Amalgams are sturdier, last longer, and are what I would choose to out in the mouth of someone who I was convinced would not be receiving regular dental treatment and who had poor oral hygiene because of the factors mentioned earlier.
If someone has good oral hygiene and sees a dentist regularly, there is nothing wrong with composite fillings and they do look better.
COST is a major factor as well because tons of people love to talk a good game, but the truth is, most will see the bill for an inlay/onlay, notice the 5-800 dollar difference, notice what insurance pays and then choose the amalgam because it costs less.[/quote]
While I agree with the statement that from a cost standpoint they are sturdier but inherently by the nature of the materials amalgams are going to expand and contract and invariably lead to cracks (crowns, etc.) as the tooth degrades.
The first point “Ridiculous.Hint: If a doctor who handles the stuff for 50 years doesn’t get sick, maybe you should take note of that.” is completely irrelevant and actually very incorrect. I know a doc that has smoked for 50 years and is fine, guess cigarettes are totally cool. Of course I don’t get to make my point with the hundreds of older dentists I had had the fortune/misfortune to meet that have very debilitating conditions now most likely due to their years of mercury exposure. Prof. X you’re a bull, strong, young, fit still doesn’t mean after 30 years of exposure you wouldn’t exhibit signs of debilitation (which are quite extensive with chronic mercury exposure. So to wave it off as nonsense shows a pretty narrow mindset but can’t hardly blame you going through the military route of medical care/training which is very behind the times not just in dentistry.
[quote]storey420 wrote:
[quote]RBlue wrote:
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
Do you know anything at all about the anatomy of a tooth? Most fillings go as deep as the enamel, or into the dentin, but not into the pulp, where the nerves and blood vessels lie. Dentin is an insulative material. For there to be any kind of current in the mouth, you’d need another dissimilar metal in a filling opposing the tooth in question.
Not to mention that any sensory nerves present in teeth can only sense pain… so any stimulus that affects them “electrically” (or mechanically, or thermally, etc) is going to cause pain in the tooth, NOT general malaise.
There are also nerves from the sympathetic autonomic nervous system controlling the arteriolar smooth muscle, but they are not equipped to transmit any signal from the periphery to the brain. Besides, electrical conduction in metals requires free movement of electrons. But electrical conduction (an action potential) in a nerve cell requires a specific signal caused by cell surface receptors binding specific signal molecules made by other cells. It’s NOT going to fire an action potential just because there’s an electrical current around it.
This is pretty basic biology. But perhaps there’s some well-documented mechanism I’m not aware of. In which case, please enlighten me. [/quote]
Although one could make the case with the millions of tubules in the teeth that the delivery is still happening. What about the argument that the mercury in the mouth is vaporizing over time (chewing, hot liquids, etc) and then the inhalation into the lungs and distribution through the body that way? [/quote]
BBB said: [quote]Besides, it’s more to do with electrical potentials affecting the CNS, than microleakage. [/quote]
The tubules hold odontoblastic cell processes (those are cells that make the dentin) not nerve cell processes, so an electrical potential couldn’t exactly travel through them.
As far as vaporization, has it ever been shown that dental amalgam will vaporize and release mercury gas at temperatures reached from hot liquids or chewing in the mouth? I think not. In fact, that is pretty laughable. Mercury itself wouldn’t exist in a gaseous form at temperatures in the mouth, it’s boiling point is 356 degrees celsius.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
People worry about the smallest things.[/quote]
If medical experts told you mercury fillings drastically reduce testosterone, you’d not think it a small thing.
lol[/quote]
I have plenty to spare.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
LOL, we come from such polar opposites regarding health Vs establishment thinking that I’m not sure there’s any point.
But perhaps if you consider that metals are electrically active and that the CNS is an electrical system, you might arrive at your own conclusions as to why in some people mercury (and gold) fillings cause general malaise.
Ah, but you’ll probably just go with your comfort blanket of ‘placebo’.
BBB[/quote]
There’s so much pseudo-science going on here I don’t know where to start.
Just because some people base their decisions on evidence doesn’t make them part of “The Evil Establishment”.
Fistly, what do you mean by ‘general malaise’? Sounds like you’re claiming patients found that their strange, indescribable negative feelings went away after the removal of a substance they percieve as strangely negative. That screams placebo!
Secondly, nothing is inherently ‘electrically active’. Metals may be electrically conductive, which is to say that they allow the transfer of electrons. Without electron flow, there’s no conduction and no electricity. That’s why the gold in a wedding ring doesn’t cause general malaise any more than the gold in a capped tooth: no flow = no electricity.
The only comfort blanket going on here is vague pseudo-science
[quote]Killa Cam wrote:
…That’s why the gold in a wedding ring doesn’t cause general malaise …[/quote]
It is the marriage.
[quote]Big Banana wrote:
[quote]Killa Cam wrote:
…That’s why the gold in a wedding ring doesn’t cause general malaise …[/quote]
It is the marriage.[/quote]
Haha… well played sir!