Feminism is too important of an idea to get thrown to the side because of some crazy people. If we don’t call this shit out when it happens, then slowly, feminism will be exclusively equated with extremism - and honestly, it usually is by this point in time.
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That explains in large part my opposition to feminism. From what I see and hear, it seems like it’s more about elevating women over men rather than actually making things equal. Maybe we just need more feminists like you. Or start a new movement under a different name.
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The problem is that anyone who calls it out tends to get labelled as “misogynist” or some bullshit like that, and all the feminism I hear of is quite extremist. Like saying all men are potential rapists for example. Men aren’t all blameless by any means, but this stuff is turning men and women against each other.
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Well, that’s sensationalism and social media for you. Most women you know, do they believe in equality? And do they say crazy shit like that? I personally don’t know anyone who says stuff like that, despite seeing a lot of comments online, because stuff just gets around like that.
Women need to define these things themselves. I’d look more toward Peggy Noonan and some of the more accomplished women of the world for what feminism is and means that some wing nuts that take it upon themselves to speak for an entire gender.
Just like I’m not going to listen to Robert Redfords account of what it’s like to be a black kid in America. Women can police their own ranks.
It not social media, it’s one of the major Canadian newspapers. And it’s not sensationalism, it’s the largest feminist organization in Quebec, which accounts for almost a quarter of the population of Canada.
I don’t know any women who openly claim to be feminists. Where I work is also at least 2/3 women, lest you think I don’t know any women.
People like these “men’s right activists” and such have been claiming for some time that feminism is all about eliminating the family structure and pushing girls towards lesbianism. Maybe their claims are hard to take seriously, but here you hear it directly from a mainstream feminist.
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I think this is kind of proof of my point, not a refutation of it. I don’t think feminism, to the average person, is something to ‘openly claim’, like some hardcore philosophy or sexual orientation, it’s just “we’re equal, or we should be”. If none of the women at your job are claiming to be feminists, much less suggesting we all get snipped, it’s probably not the widespread toxicity that you’d think. A woman at the top of said feminist organization probably had to be super outspoken to get where she was at. I dunno, I think we agree mostly on this, our disagreement is only about how many people actually buy into this bullshit (extremism, not feminism).
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Here’s what happens when a woman tries to call out the extremists:
How do you think it would go if people started disrupting feminist events?
Those sort of ideas might not be typical amongst women, but seeing as a group that believes these things has become the largest in Quebec and receives government funding it show that things are moving in a bad direction.
Exactly. I don’t know anyone who spouts that type of nonsense. However, media will never report on most people being normal and even keeled because it’s like reporting that most men are out there not raping people; there’s nothing to report. Only the crazy shit gets air time.
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Which feeds into availability bias and provides fuel of the extremists on the other end, creating a vicious cycle
All this begs the question: if this is the case, then why does feminism still need to exist? There were some legitimate grievances in the past, like women not being able to vote or own land, but it really can’t get more equal at this point.
I see stuff like women being hired for the sake of being women rather than because they are the most qualified person for the job (Like Trudeau’s gender-equal cabinet). On the other hand, most school teachers are women, why isn’t anyone pushing for more men to be hired? Perhaps because it would be ridiculous?
The same thing is happening in college admissions. Really sucks for people like my brother
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On top of that I hear some colleges and universities actually want less Asians for the sake of diversity since there is a disproportionately high number of Asian students, more so than white students. It’s ideology over capability.
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Most of the my close friends are women, and I’m a man. Ask me anything. And yes, we’re “just” friends.
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Feminism is equality. It does still need to exist. You have only to look around the world to decide whether things are truly equal.
With respect to more women teaching than men, is it a function of men being excluded or not leaning towards that type of work?
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Or a function of women being excluded elsewhere? Or not equally included elsewhere?
When I was a compsci TA I happened to make friends with several of my students. The only people that ever considered changing their major as a function of the gender ratio in the class were the women.
They could remain CS majors, where five out of a class of eighty was considered a year with an unusually high amount of women, or switch to a major in interaction design with a 60/40 women/men split and use their electives to program more. I understood why they’d consider switching.
You could ask that question about any male-dominated profession. Right now there is a push to get girls into pursuing degrees in science, if girls and women are not typically interesting in science is it because they are excluded or just not leaning towards that sort of work? And why does anyone feel the need for more female scientists?
Here in Canada the Universities have around 2/3 female students. If feminism is about equality, and not putting women’s interests ahead of men’s, then why aren’t feminists trying to help men get post-secondary education when it is a serious concern?
It looks to me like quite a few things are biased towards women. The legal system, education system, things like women-only gyms. Of course only gay guys would want a men-only gym, but I don’t think they could even try. I’m not aware of anything here in Canada, that is not totally out of the ordinary, that is discriminatory to women.
Why would people push for more of X gender to be hired in a role that is low paying, constantly being shit on by the mouth breathing public, and has a HILARIOUS ratio of pay to needed education?
What exactly exists that stops men from getting into said college?
Also in an age of increasingly devalued college educations, why would equality be pushing men into college, when they could MURDER the cost/value relationship by getting into trades instead?
Here in Ontario, teachers make an average of $80k per year. They are doing this rotating strike thing (because they want more money mostly), tomorrow the schools are closed and my wife has to stay home with the kids so I can go to work. When they start paying me $80k then I will feel sorry for teachers.
Various issues in society, that should be of concern to feminists if their movement is about equality.
A few years ago the government in Canada changed the rules for becoming a licensed tradesman. I’m not totally sure what the old rules were, but one of the big things is that now a licensed tradesman can only have a single apprentice whereas they were able to have several before. Most tradesmen don’t really want apprentices, people who are able to find apprenticeships are usually doing it with someone in their family. I know one guy who is a plumber, his uncle owns the company that he did his apprenticeship with.
To top it off, a few years ago they were talking about changing some of the rules to make it easier for tradesmen from other countries to have their credentials recognized here, and also encourage them to immigrate to Canada. This was under the previous so-called Conservative government.
I know about this because a while back I was looking into getting into a trade plumbing or electrician, it’s basically impossible for the average person to get an apprenticeship.