[quote]pat wrote:
or they play with their hair because it has a tangle.[/quote]
This made me laugh.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
If we had tag lines here I might use that. “Classic nerd.” lol
Your back is incredible, btw.[/quote]
How about “nerd chic”? :D[/quote]
“Awkward dork.”
Edit: although I’m only awkward around men I perceive as having romantic interest, or who are interesting to me in that way. Otherwise I’m pretty chill.[/quote]
I have always found awkwardness in a chick endearing. Problem is when it makes me laugh, a lot of times this is perceived as me laughing at them from whatever pedestal of cool they then assume I have propped myself on just get pissed. Actually, most of the time it is just making me smile and drawing a laugh because I found it cute.[/quote]
I never mind being laughed at if it’s clear to me that it comes from a happy/positive place. But I work with a lot of teens who freely laugh at me, which mostly I deserve and which as far as I can tell is always with affection. I used to have arms on my office chair that moved, and I’m fidgety, so I tumbled sideways a lot when the arms would shift. I also occasionally forget what the hell I’m talking about in the middle of a paragraph, which I’ll generally admit to.
If you followed the laugh with a hug (if you’re there yet) or an “I really like you,” she’ll be fine with it, I’d guess. Probably warmed by it.
[/quote]
Probably used the wrong tense there. I am married now so I finally managed to put it all together eventually. But yeah, I think it was when I laughed at chicks that were approaching me for the first time that got me into trouble. If they already knew me it was mostly fine as they understood it was not malicious. Making a female feel as though you are laughing at her is never a good idea even with the best intentions if she is approaching you with her own “intentions”. It brings out some insecurities I think.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
I saw your wish list a couple of pages back and my response was LOL. It sounds like the kind of list on of my girlfriends would have made in her late teens or early twenties of the dreamboat guy that doesn’t exist. Just HAVING a list is setting you up for failure. Do you read Cosmo??
The reality is anyone can find someone if they actually want to. Everyone for the most part does. But you have to be realistic. If you really think you should be able to find someone to fulfill that list you better be fucking awesome yourself. I suspect you are overestimating what you actually bring to the table.
[/quote]
I read his tone as joking. Although the list is partly serious, it also acknowledges the impossibility of it. I thought it was funny.
And I actually don’t think it’s an impossible list, unless he’s looking for a mani/pedi’d Barbie doll when he says “takes care of herself.” Other than that I feel I know nice, grounded women of this general sort.
Although that toothpaste thing is just stupid.[/quote]
I was partly kidding with the criteria. However, squeezing the toothpaste from the bottom is a must. 
I don’t think the mani pedi thing is too much to ask for.
The bars and clubs are not helping in my quest to find good girls. Any suggestions?
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
Again I wonder how aware many women are of it. A man may see huge flashing lights for him to change his behavior based off things a woman might not see as trying to change him at all.[/quote]
I’m not just saying it, you can’t change another person. If you do try, it will cause nothing but resentment, contempt, and other icky feelings. And, it isn’t just women wanting to change men, it goes the other way too. I could rattle off 100 things my husband wants to see me change! [/quote]
What does he want to change about you Sturg?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
I wonder if this has to do with the work we do. I definitely tried to change my ex-husband in order for the relationship to survive, but it was more like FIGURE OUT YOUR SHIT at the end.
With the more recent boyfriend I didn’t try, I ended the relationship. Major change has to come from him, which is something I didn’t know when I married my ex-husband, who also tried to change me. I suppose the boyfriend was even more interested in doing that in some ways.
I made small changes for both of them. Some positive for me, some not. They did the same. You can’t be in an intimate relationship without flexibility. If a folded rather than crumpled dish towel is what I need to be happy and Saturday afternoons at a pub during college football season is what you need, why not make each other happy?
But changing a personality or character isn’t going to happen in a romantic relationship. One has to do that for oneself. I’m assuming that’s the kind of change Sturg is talking about.
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
Again I wonder how aware many women are of it. A man may see huge flashing lights for him to change his behavior based off things a woman might not see as trying to change him at all.[/quote]
I’m not just saying it, you can’t change another person. If you do try, it will cause nothing but resentment, contempt, and other icky feelings. And, it isn’t just women wanting to change men, it goes the other way too. I could rattle off 100 things my husband wants to see me change! [/quote]
What does he want to change about you Sturg?[/quote]
He probably would like her to tone down the exuberant sexuality of her Internet persona so she stops getting hit on by creepy trolling weirdos on bodybuilding forums.
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
Again I wonder how aware many women are of it. A man may see huge flashing lights for him to change his behavior based off things a woman might not see as trying to change him at all.[/quote]
I’m not just saying it, you can’t change another person. If you do try, it will cause nothing but resentment, contempt, and other icky feelings. And, it isn’t just women wanting to change men, it goes the other way too. I could rattle off 100 things my husband wants to see me change! [/quote]
What does he want to change about you Sturg?[/quote]
I think she is partly right about that. My wife tries to change me. Maybe not always verbally but she tries to change me through her actions, leading by example if you will. She wants me to be more organized, I think she needs to loosen up a little bit on a lot of things. Ultimately we end up meeting somewhere in the middle. She’s the yang and I am the yin and we kind of help each other find a happy medium.
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]harrypotter wrote:
And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]
You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.
That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]
Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…
Did I mention that we have a list?
Seriously, we do. [/quote]
This:
It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]
No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.
There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.
Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.
Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]
Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.
The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.
It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.
We library girls can do better.[/quote]
No you cant.
I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.
Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.
[/quote]
Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).
My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.
Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)
[/quote]
God, did you never meet a guy who just did not “get it”?
Could you please explain to me why suddenly guys who did not “get it” started to pile up?
[/quote]
I don’t know. Who were you chasing? I think that’s where your answer lie. Because if you were clean and reasonably good looking and you said to me at 16 that you loved James Clavell, my face would have lit with delight.
But I don’t think you would have said that to me, because “hot” is not my superpower. Kind is. Smart, maybe. Interested, curious, funny. But you’d have to bother talking to me to know any of that. At some point I became a little hot, maybe, in my late teens, early 20s. But that didn’t make me want to have sex with shallow, uncaring men. lol [/quote]
Emily, I would have tried to befriend you so as to get to know you better and build intimacy and whatnot so that you would see I was different and whatnot…
Doomed from the start…
The emergency stop for the female libido…
I would have been such a special friend until you would have found someone to give it to you good, then I would have been discarded.
Given that this was the late 80s, early 90s, what was in the air back then?
Who sold me that rotten fruit?
[/quote]
God you’re cynical. You and Emily are overanalyzing this. There are PLENTY of quality, single people out there that are looking for some semblance of a relationship. After all, you guys are single, right?
Orion, referring to women as “cock hoppers”, “cum buckets”, “sluts”, and plethora of other derogatory terms only reinforces your current position - bitter and single. You can exclaim that you just don’t care but I call your bluff.
You need to put yourself out there, let down your guard, be positive, and be free of expectations. Just see what happens…
No, nobody NEEDS another person but it sure can be nice being with another person. 
[/quote]
I agree with you! I’m arguing the same thing you are. It just takes me a lot of words. I have extras and I need to spend them down.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
Again I wonder how aware many women are of it. A man may see huge flashing lights for him to change his behavior based off things a woman might not see as trying to change him at all.[/quote]
I’m not just saying it, you can’t change another person. If you do try, it will cause nothing but resentment, contempt, and other icky feelings. And, it isn’t just women wanting to change men, it goes the other way too. I could rattle off 100 things my husband wants to see me change! [/quote]
What does he want to change about you Sturg?[/quote]
He probably would like her to tone down the exuberant sexuality of her Internet persona so she stops getting hit on by creepy trolling weirdos on bodybuilding forums. [/quote]
Now you want to grant me the title of creepy trolling weirdo? If she’s been posting sexualized comments I haven’t seen any. May be your reading in to things making you the weirdo.
I think the best thing is to be clear about expectations and desire. He probably isn’t as obsessed as it seems, just interested.
Women tend to flatter themselves.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
I wonder if this has to do with the work we do. I definitely tried to change my ex-husband in order for the relationship to survive, but it was more like FIGURE OUT YOUR SHIT at the end.
With the more recent boyfriend I didn’t try, I ended the relationship. Major change has to come from him, which is something I didn’t know when I married my ex-husband, who also tried to change me. I suppose the boyfriend was even more interested in doing that in some ways.
I made small changes for both of them. Some positive for me, some not. They did the same. You can’t be in an intimate relationship without flexibility. If a folded rather than crumpled dish towel is what I need to be happy and Saturday afternoons at a pub during college football season is what you need, why not make each other happy?
But changing a personality or character isn’t going to happen in a romantic relationship. One has to do that for oneself. I’m assuming that’s the kind of change Sturg is talking about.[/quote]
I understand what you’re saying.
I’m betting there is a bit less attempting to change the other at middle age and up. But at the younger ages of 20’s and 30’s, women will certainly make quite an effort to mold and make their man into their ideal of the perfect lil ol’ husband. They will do it without even knowing they are doing it.[/quote]
I think you underestimate the degree to which men also do this to women. I don’t see a difference. Sure, I naively tried to change him, but he tried to change me as well, in pretty significant ways. If anything I would say that he was more successful for a long time at changing me than I was him because I was more invested in keeping the peace.
Edit: I agree about the reduction in motivation to change others as one gets older, though. Intact couples have come to greater acceptance of each other, new couples are just more accepting generally.
[quote]PowWowNow wrote:
I think the best thing is to be clear about expectations and desire. He probably isn’t as obsessed as it seems, just interested.
Women tend to flatter themselves. [/quote]
Maybe. I’ll never know now about the most recent one. The previous two who behaved this way may or may not have been obsessed, but they certainly were/are committed. I’ve heard from both of them within the past couple of days.
I had a date tonight. He hunts. The first hunter I’ve ever been out with. I’m trying something different. A born-and-bred local redneck kind of guy, who runs maintenance for the company I’m going to be working for, but not where I’ll be. He may be too aggressive and fast for me, though. We’ll see.
i also got Facebook friended and messaged today by a new coworker, who went to college with my best friend, saying we all need to go out sometime. She’s a lesbian.
So the world is really my oyster right now.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]PowWowNow wrote:
I think the best thing is to be clear about expectations and desire. He probably isn’t as obsessed as it seems, just interested.
Women tend to flatter themselves. [/quote]
Maybe. I’ll never know now about the most recent one. The previous two who behaved this way may or may not have been obsessed, but they certainly were/are committed. I’ve heard from both of them within the past couple of days.
I had a date tonight. He hunts. The first hunter I’ve ever been out with. I’m trying something different. A born-and-bred local redneck kind of guy, who runs maintenance for the company I’m going to be working for, but not where I’ll be. He may be too aggressive and fast for me, though. We’ll see.
i also got Facebook friended and messaged today by a new coworker, who went to college with my best friend, saying we all need to go out sometime. She’s a lesbian.
So the world is really my oyster right now.
[/quote]
Ahh, the “we should all go out” line. On par with “want to come over and watch a movie?”
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
I wonder if this has to do with the work we do. I definitely tried to change my ex-husband in order for the relationship to survive, but it was more like FIGURE OUT YOUR SHIT at the end.
With the more recent boyfriend I didn’t try, I ended the relationship. Major change has to come from him, which is something I didn’t know when I married my ex-husband, who also tried to change me. I suppose the boyfriend was even more interested in doing that in some ways.
I made small changes for both of them. Some positive for me, some not. They did the same. You can’t be in an intimate relationship without flexibility. If a folded rather than crumpled dish towel is what I need to be happy and Saturday afternoons at a pub during college football season is what you need, why not make each other happy?
But changing a personality or character isn’t going to happen in a romantic relationship. One has to do that for oneself. I’m assuming that’s the kind of change Sturg is talking about.[/quote]
I understand what you’re saying.
I’m betting there is a bit less attempting to change the other at middle age and up. But at the younger ages of 20’s and 30’s, women will certainly make quite an effort to mold and make their man into their ideal of the perfect lil ol’ husband. They will do it without even knowing they are doing it.[/quote]
I think you underestimate the degree to which men also do this to women. I don’t see a difference. Sure, I naively tried to change him, but he tried to change me as well, in pretty significant ways. If anything I would say that he was more successful for a long time at changing me than I was him because I was more invested in keeping the peace.
Edit: I agree about the reduction in motivation to change others as one gets older, though. Intact couples have come to greater acceptance of each other, new couples are just more accepting generally.[/quote]
I don’t think I underestimate it at all. It certainly happens.
But in matters of degrees women do it more. It’s in their nature and to a certain extent they can’t help it.
By the way, I shouldn’t have to qualify my statements with the good ol’ “generally speaking,” should I? Isn’t it taken for granted we’re speaking in general terms?[/quote]
I’ve heard it said that, ahem generally speaking, women marry men hoping they’ll change while men marry women hoping they’ll stay the same.
Seems like more often than not, both get disappointed.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
I wonder if this has to do with the work we do. I definitely tried to change my ex-husband in order for the relationship to survive, but it was more like FIGURE OUT YOUR SHIT at the end.
With the more recent boyfriend I didn’t try, I ended the relationship. Major change has to come from him, which is something I didn’t know when I married my ex-husband, who also tried to change me. I suppose the boyfriend was even more interested in doing that in some ways.
I made small changes for both of them. Some positive for me, some not. They did the same. You can’t be in an intimate relationship without flexibility. If a folded rather than crumpled dish towel is what I need to be happy and Saturday afternoons at a pub during college football season is what you need, why not make each other happy?
But changing a personality or character isn’t going to happen in a romantic relationship. One has to do that for oneself. I’m assuming that’s the kind of change Sturg is talking about.[/quote]
I understand what you’re saying.
I’m betting there is a bit less attempting to change the other at middle age and up. But at the younger ages of 20’s and 30’s, women will certainly make quite an effort to mold and make their man into their ideal of the perfect lil ol’ husband. They will do it without even knowing they are doing it.[/quote]
I think you underestimate the degree to which men also do this to women. I don’t see a difference. Sure, I naively tried to change him, but he tried to change me as well, in pretty significant ways. If anything I would say that he was more successful for a long time at changing me than I was him because I was more invested in keeping the peace.
Edit: I agree about the reduction in motivation to change others as one gets older, though. Intact couples have come to greater acceptance of each other, new couples are just more accepting generally.[/quote]
I don’t think I underestimate it at all. It certainly happens.
But in matters of degrees women do it more. It’s in their nature and to a certain extent they can’t help it.
By the way, I shouldn’t have to qualify my statements with the good ol’ “generally speaking,” should I? Isn’t it taken for granted we’re speaking in general terms?[/quote]
No, of course not, I’m only responding that generally speaking, men are just as lacking in awareness of their own push to mold their shared worlds. What you’re seeing and noting is that women, by and large, are in charge of the shared space and children’s social education, so have more of an investment in household matters and whether or not one burps at the dinner table.
But men assert themselves all the time and women tend to make way and it all seems seamless and right to men, who expect people to move when they’re coming through. Women don’t have that privilege, and I think are seen as fussing where men are not because no one gives men negative feedback. Or they do, and men don’t hear it.
[quote]batman730 wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve never wanted, nor have tried, to change someone ever.
[/quote]
Then you are the first of several billion women.
[/quote]
I wonder if this has to do with the work we do. I definitely tried to change my ex-husband in order for the relationship to survive, but it was more like FIGURE OUT YOUR SHIT at the end.
With the more recent boyfriend I didn’t try, I ended the relationship. Major change has to come from him, which is something I didn’t know when I married my ex-husband, who also tried to change me. I suppose the boyfriend was even more interested in doing that in some ways.
I made small changes for both of them. Some positive for me, some not. They did the same. You can’t be in an intimate relationship without flexibility. If a folded rather than crumpled dish towel is what I need to be happy and Saturday afternoons at a pub during college football season is what you need, why not make each other happy?
But changing a personality or character isn’t going to happen in a romantic relationship. One has to do that for oneself. I’m assuming that’s the kind of change Sturg is talking about.[/quote]
I understand what you’re saying.
I’m betting there is a bit less attempting to change the other at middle age and up. But at the younger ages of 20’s and 30’s, women will certainly make quite an effort to mold and make their man into their ideal of the perfect lil ol’ husband. They will do it without even knowing they are doing it.[/quote]
I think you underestimate the degree to which men also do this to women. I don’t see a difference. Sure, I naively tried to change him, but he tried to change me as well, in pretty significant ways. If anything I would say that he was more successful for a long time at changing me than I was him because I was more invested in keeping the peace.
Edit: I agree about the reduction in motivation to change others as one gets older, though. Intact couples have come to greater acceptance of each other, new couples are just more accepting generally.[/quote]
I don’t think I underestimate it at all. It certainly happens.
But in matters of degrees women do it more. It’s in their nature and to a certain extent they can’t help it.
By the way, I shouldn’t have to qualify my statements with the good ol’ “generally speaking,” should I? Isn’t it taken for granted we’re speaking in general terms?[/quote]
I’ve heard it said that, ahem generally speaking, women marry men hoping they’ll change while men marry women hoping they’ll stay the same.
Seems like more often than not, both get disappointed.[/quote]
The second part is definitely true. I don’t think women marry men hoping they’ll change, though, I think children change the women, who then feel they need to change the men.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]PowWowNow wrote:
I think the best thing is to be clear about expectations and desire. He probably isn’t as obsessed as it seems, just interested.
Women tend to flatter themselves. [/quote]
Maybe. I’ll never know now about the most recent one. The previous two who behaved this way may or may not have been obsessed, but they certainly were/are committed. I’ve heard from both of them within the past couple of days.
I had a date tonight. He hunts. The first hunter I’ve ever been out with. I’m trying something different. A born-and-bred local redneck kind of guy, who runs maintenance for the company I’m going to be working for, but not where I’ll be. He may be too aggressive and fast for me, though. We’ll see.
i also got Facebook friended and messaged today by a new coworker, who went to college with my best friend, saying we all need to go out sometime. She’s a lesbian.
So the world is really my oyster right now.
[/quote]
Enjoy it. It takes more than one grain of sand to make a pearl.