Men afraid of commitment?

Off Topic
821

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

Are you saying that you don’t think a man can possess both sex appeal and nurture appeal? [/quote]

He can.

But, lets say, just for shits and giggles, that women react sexually to social dominance, controlled aggression and stone cold confidence, warranted or not.

Now, could such a man be also kind, nurturing and future oriented?

Yes?

Theoretically?

While it is possible, it is a rare mix, therefore, Alpha fux and Beta bux, meaning, once a woman is done with the bad boys a nice little provider shlub pays a very high price for what she gave away for a smile in her prime to BillyBoyRockBandDrummer.

Which is only fitting, because he is hardly her first choice.

Or her second.

Or third, fifth, tenth, you name it.

Should he however not live up to her fever fantasies of eternal courtships of indomitable* hunks she can always bail out and be rewarded by cash and prices.

*kind of easy to be indomitable if you have no skin in the game. Kind of hard when you are a father and your wife is hankering for the bad boys of her youth.

822

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.

823

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

824

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

[/quote]

Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).

My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.

Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)

825

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

[/quote]

Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).

My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.

Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)

[/quote]

God, did you never meet a guy who just did not “get it”?

Could you please explain to me why suddenly guys who did not “get it” started to pile up?

826

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

[/quote]

Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).

My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.

Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)

[/quote]

God, did you never meet a guy who just did not “get it”?

Could you please explain to me why suddenly guys who did not “get it” started to pile up?

[/quote]

I don’t know. Who were you chasing? I think that’s where your answer lie. Because if you were clean and reasonably good looking and you said to me at 16 that you loved James Clavell, my face would have lit with delight.

But I don’t think you would have said that to me, because “hot” is not my superpower. Kind is. Smart, maybe. Interested, curious, funny. But you’d have to bother talking to me to know any of that. At some point I became a little hot, maybe, in my late teens, early 20s. But that didn’t make me want to have sex with shallow, uncaring men. lol

827

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

[/quote]

Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).

My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.

Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)

[/quote]

God, did you never meet a guy who just did not “get it”?

Could you please explain to me why suddenly guys who did not “get it” started to pile up?

[/quote]

I don’t know. Who were you chasing? I think that’s where your answer lie. Because if you were clean and reasonably good looking and you said to me at 16 that you loved James Clavell, my face would have lit with delight.

But I don’t think you would have said that to me, because “hot” is not my superpower. Kind is. Smart, maybe. Interested, curious, funny. But you’d have to bother talking to me to know any of that. At some point I became a little hot, maybe, in my late teens, early 20s. But that didn’t make me want to have sex with shallow, uncaring men. lol [/quote]

Emily, I would have tried to befriend you so as to get to know you better and build intimacy and whatnot so that you would see I was different and whatnot…

Doomed from the start…

The emergency stop for the female libido…

I would have been such a special friend until you would have found someone to give it to you good, then I would have been discarded.

Given that this was the late 80s, early 90s, what was in the air back then?

Who sold me that rotten fruit?

828

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]harrypotter wrote:

And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]

You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.

That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]

Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…

Did I mention that we have a list?

Seriously, we do. [/quote]

This:

It’s nasty! It’s nasty and hostile and awful! Do you suggest that this is a man deserving of a nice woman? He IS creepy! Do you defend these statements he’s made as honorable?[/quote]

No, but that was just aggressive and vulgar, not creepy.

There are other posters at the moment who I would consider to be creepy.

Also HP, knew Emilies post history even somewhat you would know that her HS football team has very, very, very, likely never run a train on her.

Thats just misplaced anger…[/quote]

Going back to this - what you should both understand is that my HS football team wouldn’t even have noticed me. At that time I was an awkward nearsighted girl. People who knew me knew I was fun, and some boys thought I was pretty, but that wouldn’t have been the jock types. They didn’t even see me. They were chasing the hot, flirty girls.

The problem with your system is that it rejects the very girls it claims don’t exist. You want to chase the 16-year-olds with manicures and clothes from Victoria’s Secret who chase football players, that’s fine. But speaking for the sixteen-year-old girls who had their noses buried in the 1200-page Shogun, I will tell you that you’re not of interest to us after you get tired of chasing shallow ass and want to have babies with someone nice who likes adventure stories with a lot of smutty parts.

It’s a two way street. You don’t seem to understand that we’re out there. We just don’t want the boys who wanted those girls, who wanted hotter boys. ALL of you are/were shallow, and all of you are becoming disenchanted/bitter. Yet you continue to chase that girl, from the sounds of it.

We library girls can do better.[/quote]

No you cant.

I had read every James Clavell novel by then and then some.

Plus, with my nice guy ways you would have rejected me regardless.

[/quote]

Why would I have? I don’t think so. I went from a nice guy long term boyfriend (two of them actually, moving back and forth between parents) to a nice guy husband (meh, sort of) (he was less beta than the boys I dated) (the beta-est of whom I almost married).

My ex-boyfriend, the one I can barely keep myself from running back to, has a master’s degree in what is possibly THE dweebiest discipline on earth. I’ve been over this: my height or a little shorter, broke, swears less than me, has Ben Franklin glasses, etc. No one would ever look at him and think “bad boy” or “alpha.” But I found him absolutely intoxicating, EVEN THOUGH he always did the dishes. But not because he had to to get sex, just because I generally cooked and that was his fair trade. Plus we wanted to get it out of the way so we could go have sex. I put away food while he did and made the next day’s coffee. When we went camping I made sandwiches and breakfast while he loaded the truck. No one treated anyone like shit, until the stress and his desire to move home became an issue.

Maybe your nice guy ways were offensive in some way, or struck girls as being oily, I don’t know. But I feel that all of the guys I’ve been close to have been varying blends of nice guys and awful, like most people. All have been very generous with me, to the degree they were able. But I’m very generous and affectionate, too. It’s nice to be nice. (Did you know that?)

[/quote]

God, did you never meet a guy who just did not “get it”?

Could you please explain to me why suddenly guys who did not “get it” started to pile up?

[/quote]

I don’t know. Who were you chasing? I think that’s where your answer lie. Because if you were clean and reasonably good looking and you said to me at 16 that you loved James Clavell, my face would have lit with delight.

But I don’t think you would have said that to me, because “hot” is not my superpower. Kind is. Smart, maybe. Interested, curious, funny. But you’d have to bother talking to me to know any of that. At some point I became a little hot, maybe, in my late teens, early 20s. But that didn’t make me want to have sex with shallow, uncaring men. lol [/quote]

Emily, I would have tried to befriend you so as to get to know you better and build intimacy and whatnot so that you would see I was different and whatnot…

Doomed from the start…

The emergency stop for the female libido…

I would have been such a special friend until you would have found someone to give it to you good, then I would have been discarded.

Given that this was the late 80s, early 90s, what was in the air back then?

Who sold me that rotten fruit?

[/quote]

Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.

829

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]
Oh he knows they do.

830

Why are men afraid of commitment? Very simple. Women have taught us to be our entire lives, which is consistently reinforced through social norms and laws. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce, with over 70% of divorces initiated by women, and the most common reason given for initiating the divorce? Boredom. You wouldn’t believe the shit I’ve seen as an attorney dealing with family law. So yeah, I’m fucking terrified of commitment. I am absolutely scared to bet some woman 50% of all my assets, along with a significant chunk of my income (potentially for the rest of my life), that SHE will love me until the day I die. Let’s say we have kids, and one day I find out they aren’t actually mine. Well, the courts will say, “Too fucking bad. Because you acted like a parent (due entirely to this woman lying her ass off to you) you have to pay child support anyway.”

Men are scared of commitment because women are fickle and capricious and the deck is stacked against us, legally speaking.

831

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.

We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.

[/quote]

It is not about ownership rights, it is about women not “needing” men.

Sure, if her car breaks down she will call a man to tow it away, she will call man to repair it, she lives in a society with some sense of order because big, burly men with lots of guns make sure it stays that way.

There is an article where a single mother bragged how strong and independent she was because she visited a community college while getting foodstamps and subsidies for housing and whatnot which in their majority where financed by men.

Some women are simply dilusional when it comes to how much they need men, cut the welfare state and we would have a divorce rate resembling that of the year 1900.

[/quote]

Putting it that way, do you also see that men “need” women, either in a modern or historical context?[/quote]

Having thought about it, no, men do not need women.

We want women, they NEED us.

We act as if it was the exact opposite though, which no society that evolved beyond subsistence agriculture ever did.

Our whole setup right now depends on pulling the wool over the eyes of the men who actually pull the plough.

Since there already is an effort to rip away their blinders and since men who do not really get what is going on already are opting out, be it the Herbivore or the MGTOW or the German “Zeugungsstreik” way this house of cards is bound to come down.

Men do not need to unite, they do not need to get angry, all they have to do is opt out, one by one.

If noone is pulling the plow, noone eats, period.

832

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.

We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.

[/quote]

It is not about ownership rights, it is about women not “needing” men.

Sure, if her car breaks down she will call a man to tow it away, she will call man to repair it, she lives in a society with some sense of order because big, burly men with lots of guns make sure it stays that way.

There is an article where a single mother bragged how strong and independent she was because she visited a community college while getting foodstamps and subsidies for housing and whatnot which in their majority where financed by men.

Some women are simply dilusional when it comes to how much they need men, cut the welfare state and we would have a divorce rate resembling that of the year 1900.

[/quote]

Putting it that way, do you also see that men “need” women, either in a modern or historical context?[/quote]

Having thought about it, no, men do not need women.

We want women, they NEED us.

We act as if it was the exact opposite though, which no society that evolved beyond subsistence agriculture ever did.

Our whole setup right now depends on pulling the wool over the eyes of the men who actually pull the plough.

Since there already is an effort to rip away their blinders and since men who do not really get what is going on already are opting out, be it the Herbivore or the MGTOW or the German “Zeugungsstreik” way this house of cards is bound to come down.

Men do not need to unite, they do not need to get angry, all they have to do is opt out, one by one.

If noone is pulling the plow, noone eats, period. [/quote]

No, it breaks down when you go back to an agricultural utopia. Men pulled the plow and divorce was rare, but the men pulling the plow needed the women just as badly as she needed him, maybe more, because otherwise they’d be pulling the plow all day, then coming home to eat cold food and drink water, then go to sleep on a filthy blanket on the floor. You need someone to see to domestic matters like cooking the game men kill, stuffing straw or feathers into the mattresses they’ve just sewn, feeding the stove all day with the wood men chop or searching for dung or peat, depending, percolating coffee, filling lamps, washing clothes in the tub outside, churning butter. And rearing kids, little people to help with all of the above.

In fact, having watched Frontier House, which you would love as much as I, I’d bet, I can attest that generally speaking cash came from women’s efforts - selling their butter, eggs, baked goods. They needed each other, orion. Men were desperate to get married because they needed help.

833

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

834

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.

We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.

[/quote]

It is not about ownership rights, it is about women not “needing” men.

Sure, if her car breaks down she will call a man to tow it away, she will call man to repair it, she lives in a society with some sense of order because big, burly men with lots of guns make sure it stays that way.

There is an article where a single mother bragged how strong and independent she was because she visited a community college while getting foodstamps and subsidies for housing and whatnot which in their majority where financed by men.

Some women are simply dilusional when it comes to how much they need men, cut the welfare state and we would have a divorce rate resembling that of the year 1900.

[/quote]

Putting it that way, do you also see that men “need” women, either in a modern or historical context?[/quote]

Having thought about it, no, men do not need women.

We want women, they NEED us.

We act as if it was the exact opposite though, which no society that evolved beyond subsistence agriculture ever did.

Our whole setup right now depends on pulling the wool over the eyes of the men who actually pull the plough.

Since there already is an effort to rip away their blinders and since men who do not really get what is going on already are opting out, be it the Herbivore or the MGTOW or the German “Zeugungsstreik” way this house of cards is bound to come down.

Men do not need to unite, they do not need to get angry, all they have to do is opt out, one by one.

If noone is pulling the plow, noone eats, period. [/quote]

No, it breaks down when you go back to an agricultural utopia. Men pulled the plow and divorce was rare, but the men pulling the plow needed the women just as badly as she needed him, maybe more, because otherwise they’d be pulling the plow all day, then coming home to eat cold food and drink water, then go to sleep on a filthy blanket on the floor. You need someone to see to domestic matters like cooking the game men kill, stuffing straw or feathers into the mattresses they’ve just sewn, feeding the stove all day with the wood men chop or searching for dung or peat, depending, percolating coffee, filling lamps, washing clothes in the tub outside, churning butter. And rearing kids, little people to help with all of the above.

In fact, having watched Frontier House, which you would love as much as I, I’d bet, I can attest that generally speaking cash came from women’s efforts - selling their butter, eggs, baked goods. They needed each other, orion. Men were desperate to get married because they needed help.[/quote]

No.

If he has no wife and kids he only has to pull the plough 1/3 as long for basically the same lifestyle.

If he WANTS a family, he has to pull harder.

If enough men do not want it because the deck is stacked against them, why bother.

You should read:

Sexual Utopia in Power

and

Garbage Generation

Both lay out how Patriarchy was not the rule of men over women but the rule of fathers in their own households.

It was a set of incentives to make men stakeholders in society and unlock their potential.

We have ground that set of incentives into the dust and the result is a shiftless, undisciplined, kind of meh generation.

Why bust your ass to be taxed to the hilt to support womens bad choices, why work hard if you cannot even have a family that is truly yours?

Why bother?

835

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?

836

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?[/quote]

And again.

The median number of sexual partners for women 15-45 is around 4.

The average number is around 9.

If you think about it, almost ALL the women you meet above 30s or so rode the cock carousel hard.

Because the “good” girls are not on the market.

They stay in the relationships they are in.

837

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?[/quote]

And again.

The median number of sexual partners for women 15-45 is around 4.

The average number is around 9.

If you think about it, almost ALL the women you meet above 30s or so rode the cock carousel hard.

Because the “good” girls are not on the market.

They stay in the relationships they are in. [/quote]

My best friend’s ex-husband would not stop fooling around (drinker, very social). She’d find out and break up, he’d make promises so they’d get back together, until she finally said enough. I remember telling her that I believed all the good guys are married (all the good guys I knew at the time were married) and she pointed out that WE are good guys. There are men like me, who had depressed wives who did stupid, intolerable stuff or were lazy and fat and didn’t want to change. There are men like my best friend, whose wives cheated or became substance abusers.

Good guys who for one reason or another left their marriages. I’m looking for them. I believe, based on my limited experience, that they’re also looking for me.

838

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?[/quote]

And again.

The median number of sexual partners for women 15-45 is around 4.

The average number is around 9.

If you think about it, almost ALL the women you meet above 30s or so rode the cock carousel hard.

Because the “good” girls are not on the market.

They stay in the relationships they are in. [/quote]

My best friend’s ex-husband would not stop fooling around (drinker, very social). She’d find out and break up, he’d make promises so they’d get back together, until she finally said enough. I remember telling her that I believed all the good guys are married (all the good guys I knew at the time were married) and she pointed out that WE are good guys. There are men like me, who had depressed wives who did stupid, intolerable stuff or were lazy and fat and didn’t want to change. There are men like my best friend, whose wives cheated or became substance abusers.

Good guys who for one reason or another left their marriages. I’m looking for them. I believe, based on my limited experience, that they’re also looking for me.

[/quote]

Oh, they are.

But, out of sheer statistical necessity, they are are outnumbered by sluts, cads (yay!), golddiggers and whatnot.

You dont get how skewed the numbers are, over at Dalrocks site he dissects a womans article who dated 80 guys in 6 months!

Those combat daters necessarily drown your efforts.

If you simply assume that the woman you date is a sloar you have an 80% chance of being right.

839

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?[/quote]

And again.

The median number of sexual partners for women 15-45 is around 4.

The average number is around 9.

If you think about it, almost ALL the women you meet above 30s or so rode the cock carousel hard.

Because the “good” girls are not on the market.

They stay in the relationships they are in. [/quote]

My best friend’s ex-husband would not stop fooling around (drinker, very social). She’d find out and break up, he’d make promises so they’d get back together, until she finally said enough. I remember telling her that I believed all the good guys are married (all the good guys I knew at the time were married) and she pointed out that WE are good guys. There are men like me, who had depressed wives who did stupid, intolerable stuff or were lazy and fat and didn’t want to change. There are men like my best friend, whose wives cheated or became substance abusers.

Good guys who for one reason or another left their marriages. I’m looking for them. I believe, based on my limited experience, that they’re also looking for me.

[/quote]

Oh, they are.

But, out of sheer statistical necessity, they are are outnumbered by sluts, cads (yay!), golddiggers and whatnot.

You dont get how skewed the numbers are, over at Dalrocks site he dissects a womans article who dated 80 guys in 6 months!

Those combat daters necessarily drown your efforts.

If you simply assume that the woman you date is a sloar you have an 80% chance of being right.

[/quote]

But there are ways to tell, to some extent, if the people you’re interested in have good character or not. THAT is the goal, not some paranoid assessment of past behavior. Good character is good character.

I’m moving soon, and a couple of weeks ago my ex-husband asked me if I’m okay for money. LOL and WTF? But despite his bad behaviors during the marriage, he is a man of generally decentish character and one of his better qualities is generosity. We’re also friends now, or maybe still some sort of family together. As actually my best friend and her cheating husband are. He’s my friend, too. He’s a lot of fun and a nice, nice man. He’s just not faithful.

No one is perfect, orion. You just have to pick which imperfections are workable for you. And you definitely need to learn the art of forgiveness.

840

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Orion, I have no idea. Who sold me all the bullshit I’ve had to deal with in one regard or another? I was in a near-sexless marriage for years and remained faithful. I would have stayed in it and remained faithful if he’d shown even one drop of enthusiasm for making even a single positive change.

Life is hard! You find ways to manage it without getting eaten alive inside by bitterness. You forgive people, because most people are having just as hard a time as you. You think those pretty girls don’t suffer? I’m sure they do, or will. Everyone does.[/quote]

Well, I do have a very good idea.

Twas a combination of the apex of 2 wave feminism and a still rather conservative upringing.

I did not need to pedestalize women, it was done for me before I got a fighting chance to form my own opinions.

As for life is hard:

Yes, they will suffer.

However, if they discover at a certain age that all they are good for is a pump and dump I might have some residual compassion, but I will not commit to any of them.

Yes, they have been sold the same crock of shit I have been, but I have not forgotten the casual arrogance, the haughty dismissals, the all around shitty behavior I was confronted with because I did not “get it”.

Turns out, they did not “get it” either, they were just drunk on power because they were young and beautiful.

[/quote]

But you were the fool who idolized those silly traits. Again, speaking as the girl the “cool kids” and you ignored, I find just as sad the men who’ve now passed their heyday and don’t understand why they aren’t getting women like they used to. Now they’re looking at me because my looks have aged well, my body reminds them of those girls, and now I am the one with confidence and an easy smile. But I’m looking back at them with utter disinterest. Not because I’m mad at them for bypassing me, but because they never were interesting to me.

Oh, the ex-boyfriend, my sexual hero - he was the captain, or whatever, of his high school newspaper. Ex-husband got special permission to skip his lunch period because he wanted to take two languages (he speaks three aside from English).

I and they “get it.” I think you don’t. Why do you even care about those stupid girls? Why should I care about the hard times of the dumb jocks who bullied chess club boys? Why waste my time relishing that the majority of them are now flabby sad sacks doing hard time on a used car lot?[/quote]

And again.

The median number of sexual partners for women 15-45 is around 4.

The average number is around 9.

If you think about it, almost ALL the women you meet above 30s or so rode the cock carousel hard.

Because the “good” girls are not on the market.

They stay in the relationships they are in. [/quote]

My best friend’s ex-husband would not stop fooling around (drinker, very social). She’d find out and break up, he’d make promises so they’d get back together, until she finally said enough. I remember telling her that I believed all the good guys are married (all the good guys I knew at the time were married) and she pointed out that WE are good guys. There are men like me, who had depressed wives who did stupid, intolerable stuff or were lazy and fat and didn’t want to change. There are men like my best friend, whose wives cheated or became substance abusers.

Good guys who for one reason or another left their marriages. I’m looking for them. I believe, based on my limited experience, that they’re also looking for me.

[/quote]

Oh, they are.

But, out of sheer statistical necessity, they are are outnumbered by sluts, cads (yay!), golddiggers and whatnot.

You dont get how skewed the numbers are, over at Dalrocks site he dissects a womans article who dated 80 guys in 6 months!

Those combat daters necessarily drown your efforts.

If you simply assume that the woman you date is a sloar you have an 80% chance of being right.

[/quote]

But there are ways to tell, to some extent, if the people you’re interested in have good character or not. THAT is the goal, not some paranoid assessment of past behavior. Good character is good character.

I’m moving soon, and a couple of weeks ago my ex-husband asked me if I’m okay for money. LOL and WTF? But despite his bad behaviors during the marriage, he is a man of generally decentish character and one of his better qualities is generosity. We’re also friends now, or maybe still some sort of family together. As actually my best friend and her cheating husband are. He’s my friend, too. He’s a lot of fun and a nice, nice man. He’s just not faithful.

No one is perfect, orion. You just have to pick which imperfections are workable for you. And you definitely need to learn the art of forgiveness.[/quote]

Yes there are ways to tell (tramp stamp? too easy…) and I totally forgive them for being cum buckets.

And I am not cumbuckeist either, I just dont invest anything emotionally, or God forbid, financially.

I do not need to forgive, not giving a fuck is more than enough.