[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Except that I started this thread to dispute that men avoid commitment, and other women have agreed that this has been their experience, too.
[/quote]
Depends what you bring to the table.
The median number of sexual partners for women between 15 to 45 or so is around 4, the average number is around 9ish.
So obviously 50-60% go the traditional route of and if a man should find one of those and he is interested in committed relationships he will close the deal, sex vs committment.
The problem though is that the remaining 40% or so of women are disproportionally represented on the dating market, hence the battlecry on some Game sites that “all women are sluts”.
And there can be no rings for sluts.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Except that I started this thread to dispute that men avoid commitment, and other women have agreed that this has been their experience, too.
[/quote]
Maybe they don’t bring much to the table
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Exactly. I can perfectly well support myself, but I still want someone to whisper with at night. [/quote]
No, you really cant, which was his point.
The entire highly artificial and quite fragile social and literal infrastructure that allows you do not “need men” was built, is maintained and financed by men.
Joe Beta gets up every morning and puts his shoulder to the wheel so that women “no longer need men” and raise their expectations who is sexworthy and who is not to infinity and beyond.
[/quote]
Well, speaking as Joe Beta, it looks to me like my wife (and any number of other professional women I know) puts her shoulder to pretty much the same wheel as I do every morning.
She is an educated professional who provides value in the marketplace and is thus compensated for her efforts in accordance to her merit. She is economically self supporting. I fail to see how my penis or anybody else’ is subsidizing this.
As I have said, I’d be grateful if my daughter has the same opportunity when the time comes. The infrastructure that allows this was undoubtedly built and defended primarily by men. However most of those men were breaking trail long before I showed up to reap the benefits of that same infrastructure without having really contributed anything to it that is specifically dependent upon my being a man (well I labour in a field that isn’t very female friendly, but that’s beside the point). I personally know a number of women who have done significantly more to further that infrastructure than I am likely to do in my lifetime, particularly in the area of scientific research.
If that infrastructure collapsed tomorrow and civilization went to shit, I agree that “gender equality” would be a very early casualty. So would a number of other concepts that I think most of us find to be fairly agreeable, regardless of gender. I don’t expect most dudes would fare too well either. Our society IS fragile and highly artificial. It also beats the hell out of the alternatives. One doesn’t need to look too far afield to see that.
Also, I think there is an important distinction to be made between “a woman doesn’t need a man” in the individual, relationship sense and “women don’t need men” as a wholesale sociological statement. For either gender to posit that they don’t need the other in the general sense is more than a little absurd. I would think this was obvious.
Mountains and molehills really.
Edited
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Two things I’d like to say on the topic. Men are not afraid of commitment, they either choose to not commit for not wanting to compromise their personal freedom or because committing to a woman is and investment. Much like any investment you can’t park the same money twice. If you want a man to invest in you be worth it. Give frequent blowjobs, make him feel good and confident and encourage him to follow his dreams and don’t force him to compromise things he enjoys. If a man doesn’t want to commit it is because the girl doesn’t give enough BJ’s or make him feel like Hercules. Or he doesn’t want to give up video games, Internet porn and casual sex, mainly because the girl in question may not be better than those things, or giving frequent enough BJ’s. bare min BJ quota is once a week. I don’t say this for shock or to be gross, it’s just true. Almost any man will give up a hobby and most of his casual friends for an annual 52 BJ minimum guarantee.
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I agree that afraid has nothing to do with it.
That infamous SMP graph by Rollo Thomassi explains quite well what is happening.
The “were are all the good men” and “men dont grow up” and Peter Pans and whatnot is the battlecry of the former party girl who could have had commitment whenever she wanted it in her twenties, yet she had to have “fun”.
The inherent danger when it comes to girls in their twenties is that they do not necessarily grasp that an average 6 can have a roll in the hay with a 9, a STR with an 8 and a still somewhat uncommitted LTR with an 7.
However when she desides to marry at 30 or so, realistically speaking she no longer is a 6 but a 5 if she is lucky and that is what she is going to get, a male 5, and oh, she will resent him for it.
Some women have a hard time grasping that just because they are a shitty gatekeeper of their sexuality men are not necessarily shitty gatekeepers of their committment.
If you have your house somewhat in order as a man from 30 on upwards, you hold almost all the cards because the only way most women know how to lure men in is with sex, she has to put out because the competition is brutal, but noone can garantuee her that she will get any kind of real commitment and her clock is running down.
Its all market forces and who, wants what, from whom at different stages in their lives.[/quote]
This, on the other hand, actually makes a certain amount of sense.
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.
We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.
We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.
[/quote]
It is not about ownership rights, it is about women not “needing” men.
Sure, if her car breaks down she will call a man to tow it away, she will call man to repair it, she lives in a society with some sense of order because big, burly men with lots of guns make sure it stays that way.
There is an article where a single mother bragged how strong and independent she was because she visited a community college while getting foodstamps and subsidies for housing and whatnot which in their majority where financed by men.
Some women are simply dilusional when it comes to how much they need men, cut the welfare state and we would have a divorce rate resembling that of the year 1900.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
I have never seen this guy post before. I also find it strange that he somehow wants to be on that list.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
Oh, I’m just getting warmed up Vanqueer. Besides I’m feeling confident that I rank #1 or at least #2 on a certain someone’s creepy, trolling weirdo list.
Hey Em, can you save me a spot on your creepy, trolling, weirdo list?
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Except that I started this thread to dispute that men avoid commitment, and other women have agreed that this has been their experience, too.
[/quote]
Because you guys scare the shit out of us.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]harrypotter wrote:
And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]
You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.
That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]
Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…
Did I mention that we have a list?
Seriously, we do. [/quote]
Feminazis have a list, too, but, being a reasonable human being, I dispute that the qualities they shriek about in men are true of more than a few of them. I would suggest that the feminazis should be nicer if they want nicer men.[/quote]
Women do not want nice men. The term ‘Nice guys finish last’ is not just a saying. I am living proof.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]harrypotter wrote:
And then we have the shaming articles asking why guys prefer porn, PUA and games when it comes down to commitment. So women dont need men? Sounds like somebody got blasted in the face by one too many athletes during her prime.[/quote]
You’re icky. Probably the ickiest poster on TNation, and that’s saying a lot.
That’s why women don’t like you, not because of the feminist movement.[/quote]
Ah, the creep move in combination with “I bet you never get laid”…
Did I mention that we have a list?
Seriously, we do. [/quote]
Feminazis have a list, too, but, being a reasonable human being, I dispute that the qualities they shriek about in men are true of more than a few of them. I would suggest that the feminazis should be nicer if they want nicer men.[/quote]
Women do not want nice men. The term ‘Nice guys finish last’ is not just a saying. I am living proof.[/quote]
Awe, that isn’t true! 
I happen to be married to a really, really, really nice guy! Perhaps, you are just interested in girls that don’t appreciate nice guys.
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
Oh, I’m just getting warmed up Vanqueer. Besides I’m feeling confident that I rank #1 or at least #2 on a certain someone’s creepy, trolling weirdo list.
Hey Em, can you save me a spot on your creepy, trolling, weirdo list? [/quote]
You have your moments but I think you’re more ridiculous than anything else. Just so you know, if and when you make my “creepster list”, I will no longer be communicating with you.
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
Oh, I’m just getting warmed up Vanqueer. Besides I’m feeling confident that I rank #1 or at least #2 on a certain someone’s creepy, trolling weirdo list.
Hey Em, can you save me a spot on your creepy, trolling, weirdo list? [/quote]
You have your moments but I think you’re more ridiculous than anything else. Just so you know, if and when you make my “creepster list”, I will no longer be communicating with you. [/quote]
Oh how sad. You have presented him with an existential dilemma. On the one hand, if he doesn’t continue with his semi-relevant creepiness, he will have nothing to say to you. On the other hand, if he escalates his creepiness so as to gain more of your attention, he will lose your attention altogether.
What to do, what to do.
Hey I’ve got an idea. Perhaps The Other Tit can stop being an annoying creep, and start engaging in relevant, thoughtful discussion.
But no, now that I’ve mentioned it, he’s just going to do the opposite.
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Women do not want nice men. The term ‘Nice guys finish last’ is not just a saying. I am living proof.[/quote]
Awe, that isn’t true! I happen to be married to a really, really, really nice guy! Perhaps, you are just interested in girls that don’t appreciate nice guys. [/quote]
Are you sure? Can you be certain of this from your frame of reference? I wonder about such things.
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
Oh, I’m just getting warmed up Vanqueer. Besides I’m feeling confident that I rank #1 or at least #2 on a certain someone’s creepy, trolling weirdo list.
Hey Em, can you save me a spot on your creepy, trolling, weirdo list? [/quote]
You have your moments but I think you’re more ridiculous than anything else. Just so you know, if and when you make my “creepster list”, I will no longer be communicating with you. [/quote]
Mega Man you Puritanish prude! You’re stifling me damn it! Do I get 3 strikes before I’m out?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
One of the flaws in the concept of “men built this world” is that when you build something you get paid for your labor and move on to the next one. It’s not like you have ownership rights and get royalties for the time it is in service. Then the next generation gets it and does the same.
We have such a great view because we stand on the shoulders of giants. That doesn’t mean we can lay claim to their work too. And some of those giants have been and will continue to be women.
[/quote]
It is not about ownership rights, it is about women not “needing” men.
Sure, if her car breaks down she will call a man to tow it away, she will call man to repair it, she lives in a society with some sense of order because big, burly men with lots of guns make sure it stays that way.
There is an article where a single mother bragged how strong and independent she was because she visited a community college while getting foodstamps and subsidies for housing and whatnot which in their majority where financed by men.
Some women are simply dilusional when it comes to how much they need men, cut the welfare state and we would have a divorce rate resembling that of the year 1900.
[/quote]
Absolutely agree. You’re on a roll big O
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]The Other Titan wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Second thing: harrypotter is a creepy trolling weirdo and should never be taken seriously. [/quote]
I’m just wondering where I stand on the creepy, trolling weirdo list. [/quote]
You haven’t been around long enough to earn your creepy trolling weirdo wings yet. Right now you’re just kind of a nuisance, and to be honest we don’t take much notice of you at all.
[/quote]
Oh, I’m just getting warmed up Vanqueer. Besides I’m feeling confident that I rank #1 or at least #2 on a certain someone’s creepy, trolling weirdo list.
Hey Em, can you save me a spot on your creepy, trolling, weirdo list? [/quote]
You have your moments but I think you’re more ridiculous than anything else. Just so you know, if and when you make my “creepster list”, I will no longer be communicating with you. [/quote]
Oh how sad. You have presented him with an existential dilemma. On the one hand, if he doesn’t continue with his semi-relevant creepiness, he will have nothing to say to you. On the other hand, if he escalates his creepiness so as to gain more of your attention, he will lose your attention altogether.
What to do, what to do.
Hey I’ve got an idea. Perhaps The Other Tit can stop being an annoying creep, and start engaging in relevant, thoughtful discussion.
But no, now that I’ve mentioned it, he’s just going to do the opposite.[/quote]
It is truly a dilemma. I must not get myself banished from Sturgeonland.
start engaging in relevant, thoughtful discussion??? WTF we spent a 1/2 page talking about the way we squeeze toothpaste so don’t even pretend that there is “thoughtful” discussion going on in this thread.