Emily,
There are a select few here who have (what I think is) spot-on advice, and AC is definitely one of them.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Here’s a novel idea for you, Em: TRY staying single for a while. Play the field a little. (not telling you to sleep with a bunch of dudes, but DATE a few)[/quote]
I’m TRYING!
[quote]Reading into the VERY FEW details you’ve chosen to share, I’d guess this guy met you while you were with someone else, became attracted to your sexy librarian glasses, and waited around until it didn’t work out with the other guy. Now, he’s trying to lock you down before you get out there because he feels an almost narcissistic sense of “entitlement” to you - after all, in his mind, he’s put in a fair share of “work” by waiting. We have a word for that: ORBITER. Red flag, in MY book. Being an orbiter is neither an aggressive nor a masculine trait, by the way. Unless you choose to share more info that may color the situation differently, I’d avoid any immediate commitment with this one with out some more due diligence. Sounds like a classic beta “nice guy” to me. And they are the most subtly manipulative and passive aggressive types out there. I would make it a POINT to date other people and make sure he knows it. Note his reaction. If it’s anger and impotent frustration, then he’s weak and has low self esteem. If he rises to the challenge, then let him win you. You’re worth fighting for.
You’re gun shy, uncertain and on the rebound (several times over, by my count). Why not take a little time for YOU? I’m sure your “shelf life” is fine. Figure out what YOU want. Play the field a little. Prince Charming might be just over the next hill. Wouldn’t you want to be open to that and not “locked down”?
Sounds like you’re more interested in protecting his feelings than you are in following what YOU WANT. He stepped on his dick and he KNOWS it - he was premature. Punish him a little for that - he shouldn’t get a free pass. After all, if he fails the basic simple test of having PATIENCE, then he deserves some more observation while under stress. Feel free to add more data if you like if you feel I’m off target here.[/quote]
I have a habit of worrying about others’ feelings in priority over my own. I’m trying to change that. I’ve returned to my therapist to speak specifically about rescue complexes and changing the “type” I go for, which issues are interrelated.
I don’t have time to give more details, but I think the guy in question is more complex (and less unpleasant) than you speculate. One of the things at play for me and for him is that we live in a low population area, so there aren’t available multitudes to choose from. I think also, looking for a moment at “game,” that I may have been so dubious previously and in starting to resume friendship (what I was willing to offer coming out of my recent relationship) that I somehow “negged” him into wanting to win a challenge, though the negs were all on my side (I feel very intimidated and outclassed by this guy) (or did, that’s reducing).
Also, something to consider is that things may work differently for people whose experience of long term relationships was largely positive, and he is one such. I think he, like me, sees it as the ideal IF you can find someone with enough integrity and whatever other qualities you most value.
Still, I have told him that I’m still actively exploring and been very clear that I’m determined not to lock myself in with anyone before I have had time to assure myself that I am ready. But that’s easier said than done for me.[/quote]
Here’s something that you may find useful. FIRST, limit your physical TIME with him. I’ve found that women become attached when I see them more than one or two times per week (depending on activity). So, it MAY be the same with you, maybe not. But try this. Don’t see him more than two times per week and not on consecutive days. That SHOULD keep things from escalating too quickly.
SECOND, go on at least ONE other date per week. Regardless of whether or not you “like” the guy. Date several men. Get out there and have some fun. Go dutch if you don’t want to kiss him at the end.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Here’s a novel idea for you, Em: TRY staying single for a while. Play the field a little. (not telling you to sleep with a bunch of dudes, but DATE a few)[/quote]
I’m TRYING!
[quote]Reading into the VERY FEW details you’ve chosen to share, I’d guess this guy met you while you were with someone else, became attracted to your sexy librarian glasses, and waited around until it didn’t work out with the other guy. Now, he’s trying to lock you down before you get out there because he feels an almost narcissistic sense of “entitlement” to you - after all, in his mind, he’s put in a fair share of “work” by waiting. We have a word for that: ORBITER. Red flag, in MY book. Being an orbiter is neither an aggressive nor a masculine trait, by the way. Unless you choose to share more info that may color the situation differently, I’d avoid any immediate commitment with this one with out some more due diligence. Sounds like a classic beta “nice guy” to me. And they are the most subtly manipulative and passive aggressive types out there. I would make it a POINT to date other people and make sure he knows it. Note his reaction. If it’s anger and impotent frustration, then he’s weak and has low self esteem. If he rises to the challenge, then let him win you. You’re worth fighting for.
You’re gun shy, uncertain and on the rebound (several times over, by my count). Why not take a little time for YOU? I’m sure your “shelf life” is fine. Figure out what YOU want. Play the field a little. Prince Charming might be just over the next hill. Wouldn’t you want to be open to that and not “locked down”?
Sounds like you’re more interested in protecting his feelings than you are in following what YOU WANT. He stepped on his dick and he KNOWS it - he was premature. Punish him a little for that - he shouldn’t get a free pass. After all, if he fails the basic simple test of having PATIENCE, then he deserves some more observation while under stress. Feel free to add more data if you like if you feel I’m off target here.[/quote]
I have a habit of worrying about others’ feelings in priority over my own. I’m trying to change that. I’ve returned to my therapist to speak specifically about rescue complexes and changing the “type” I go for, which issues are interrelated.
I don’t have time to give more details, but I think the guy in question is more complex (and less unpleasant) than you speculate. One of the things at play for me and for him is that we live in a low population area, so there aren’t available multitudes to choose from. I think also, looking for a moment at “game,” that I may have been so dubious previously and in starting to resume friendship (what I was willing to offer coming out of my recent relationship) that I somehow “negged” him into wanting to win a challenge, though the negs were all on my side (I feel very intimidated and outclassed by this guy) (or did, that’s reducing).
Also, something to consider is that things may work differently for people whose experience of long term relationships was largely positive, and he is one such. I think he, like me, sees it as the ideal IF you can find someone with enough integrity and whatever other qualities you most value.
Still, I have told him that I’m still actively exploring and been very clear that I’m determined not to lock myself in with anyone before I have had time to assure myself that I am ready. But that’s easier said than done for me.[/quote]
Here’s something that you may find useful. FIRST, limit your physical TIME with him. I’ve found that women become attached when I see them more than one or two times per week (depending on activity). So, it MAY be the same with you, maybe not. But try this. Don’t see him more than two times per week and not on consecutive days. That SHOULD keep things from escalating too quickly.
SECOND, go on at least ONE other date per week. Regardless of whether or not you “like” the guy. Date several men. Get out there and have some fun. Go dutch if you don’t want to kiss him at the end.
[/quote]
His travel schedule is pretty intense and I have stuff going on, too. So we’re good on that score. Not sure if he’s gone as much all the time as he has been recently (if so, he’s not a serious long term prospect for me anyway), but for now too much exposure isn’t an issue.
And I’ve been working on the second piece, too. I want to try seeing different kinds of men, and give more time to see what happens with the shy ones. I ALWAYS go dutch on early dates, or if they seem really determined, accept and grab the next check - unless I dislike them, then I flatly state that I feel uncomfortable and wish to split the bill. I have no interest in prostituting myself for a chicken sandwich and a draft beer! Or of having yet another Harry Potter out there in the world griping about women who gouge you for a burger, then won’t take your calls. lol
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Really? Under what circumstances? Is this a myth, meant to confuse women further? As if your regular incomprehensible behavior isn’t enough!
Because once again I find myself doing a deer-in-the-headlights thing as someone begins pushing in that direction, i.e. exclusivity. And we’ve been seeing each other only briefly, no sex.
So my question for the board is, how is this best handled?
I don’t understand men. Except orion.
[/quote]
Well, either you are super awesome or he needs a woman in his life.
Any woman really. [/quote]
I think he just wants someone around to pick up his dirty socks, that JERK. I’m going to send him a note right now, stating very firmly that THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER FRIENDSHIP.
And P.S. I only say I understand you because you’ve spent a lot of time explaining yourself. I think you could probably say the same of me, no? So don’t be mean.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]theBeth wrote:
Wow. I am not qualified to contribute to this thread. I don’t know if there’s any such thing as true commitment or fidelity and I wish I was a willowy thing with librarian glasses who only attracted geeky intelligent types instead of narcissists and sociopaths.
I AM writing a paper on polyamory, however. Anyone got input on that?[/quote]
To this point I seem to attract depression-prone and self-absorbed geeky intelligent types, who get gratuitously mad at me when they are unhappy with themselves, so I dunno that my glasses are necessarily winning this particular race.
PLUS, I can’t hang from the side of a cliff because I’m neither brave enough nor strong enough. And that’s a cool thing to do.[/quote]
If you want to be cool and hang off the side of a cliff, start with a 5.1 or a 5.2 - you are plenty strong enough for that, I assure you. Most women are better natural climbers than men because they are smart and rely more on their legs. Most guys rely on their arms and they gas out half way up.[/quote]
Yep.
[/quote]
There’s still the brave piece. I’ve summited a couple of times via trails and if it’s sheer enough seeming at the top I get all rubber-kneed and panicky. 
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Emily,
There are a select few here who have (what I think is) spot-on advice, and AC is definitely one of them.
[/quote]
I agree!! And I’ve been paying attention. Which is why I am already employing some of the things he’s suggesting now.
He is also the one I reached out to when I started dating after my marriage ended and had questions.
I know where my dating experts are. 
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Emily,
There are a select few here who have (what I think is) spot-on advice, and AC is definitely one of them.
[/quote]
I agree!! And I’ve been paying attention. Which is why I am already employing some of the things he’s suggesting now.
He is also the one I reached out to when I started dating after my marriage ended and had questions.
I know where my dating experts are.
[/quote]
Although of course it must be stated that in the areas with which I disagree with him, he is wrong, wrong, wrong, and completely inexpert.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
There’s still the brave piece. I’ve summited a couple of times via trails and if it’s sheer enough seeming at the top I get all rubber-kneed and panicky.
[/quote]
So you’d feel more comfortable riding around in a convertible with the top down, I take it?
With swaying palms?
How 'bout that Ford Probe on ice?[/quote]
I’ll have to look up the Ford Probe, and see if it suits. My SMV is pretty high, you know.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…My SMV is pretty high, you know.
[/quote]
How high is it?
Shall we play?
[/quote]
I can only see you once a week.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Really? Under what circumstances? Is this a myth, meant to confuse women further? As if your regular incomprehensible behavior isn’t enough!
Because once again I find myself doing a deer-in-the-headlights thing as someone begins pushing in that direction, i.e. exclusivity. And we’ve been seeing each other only briefly, no sex.
So my question for the board is, how is this best handled?
I don’t understand men. Except orion.
[/quote]
Well, either you are super awesome or he needs a woman in his life.
Any woman really. [/quote]
I think he just wants someone around to pick up his dirty socks, that JERK. I’m going to send him a note right now, stating very firmly that THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER FRIENDSHIP.
And P.S. I only say I understand you because you’ve spent a lot of time explaining yourself. I think you could probably say the same of me, no? So don’t be mean.
[/quote]
Why am I mean.
Either you are one in a thousand and he goes for it or he needs to latch on to a woman.
Maybe a bit of both.
I think you understand people who need, need, NEED to be in a relationship a lot better than I do.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]theBeth wrote:
Wow. I am not qualified to contribute to this thread. I don’t know if there’s any such thing as true commitment or fidelity and I wish I was a willowy thing with librarian glasses who only attracted geeky intelligent types instead of narcissists and sociopaths.
I AM writing a paper on polyamory, however. Anyone got input on that?[/quote]
PLUS, I can’t hang from the side of a cliff because I’m neither brave enough nor strong enough. And that’s a cool thing to do.[/quote]
Try a rock climbing gym! AC is right, you might be surprised how quickly you get a knack for it. I was a bit reluctant to try it at first because I’m afraid of heights but it is soooo much fun. It has less to do with strength and more to do with planning out your next move.
Glad to hear that your conversation went well and that he seems to be understanding of where you are at with things.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Really? Under what circumstances? Is this a myth, meant to confuse women further? As if your regular incomprehensible behavior isn’t enough!
Because once again I find myself doing a deer-in-the-headlights thing as someone begins pushing in that direction, i.e. exclusivity. And we’ve been seeing each other only briefly, no sex.
So my question for the board is, how is this best handled?
I don’t understand men. Except orion.
[/quote]
Well, either you are super awesome or he needs a woman in his life.
Any woman really. [/quote]
I think he just wants someone around to pick up his dirty socks, that JERK. I’m going to send him a note right now, stating very firmly that THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER FRIENDSHIP.
And P.S. I only say I understand you because you’ve spent a lot of time explaining yourself. I think you could probably say the same of me, no? So don’t be mean.
[/quote]
Why am I mean.
Either you are one in a thousand and he goes for it or he needs to latch on to a woman.
Maybe a bit of both.
I think you understand people who need, need, NEED to be in a relationship a lot better than I do.
[/quote]
Some people might want, want, WANT to be in a relationship.
I was last minimally involved with this guy a year and a half or so ago. At that time, he was coming out of what sounded like some transitional post-divorce stuff. I didn’t and don’t see him as desperate, as he has definite market value and if he only wanted a relationship, any relationship, would have one. He also chooses to live in our remote area rather than in the urban settings where most of his work is centered, which suggests that a relationship is not at the top of his priority list.
Now, one possibility is that he enjoys cat-and-mousing goofy, earnest women for the entertainment value it provides and isn’t interested in a relationship at all. If so there’s a chance that I’ll wind up being drawn in and will ultimately be spectacularly hurt. Could be. I worry it! But I don’t think that’s it.
Again I note that men are incomprehensible creatures, despite what Mr. Foxworthy says.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…My SMV is pretty high, you know.
[/quote]
How high is it?
Shall we play?
[/quote]
I can only see you once a week. [/quote]
That oughta work for this game.
[/quote]
Don’t expect to buy me drinks.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Really? Under what circumstances? Is this a myth, meant to confuse women further? As if your regular incomprehensible behavior isn’t enough!
Because once again I find myself doing a deer-in-the-headlights thing as someone begins pushing in that direction, i.e. exclusivity. And we’ve been seeing each other only briefly, no sex.
So my question for the board is, how is this best handled?
I don’t understand men. Except orion.
[/quote]
Well, either you are super awesome or he needs a woman in his life.
Any woman really. [/quote]
I think he just wants someone around to pick up his dirty socks, that JERK. I’m going to send him a note right now, stating very firmly that THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER FRIENDSHIP.
And P.S. I only say I understand you because you’ve spent a lot of time explaining yourself. I think you could probably say the same of me, no? So don’t be mean.
[/quote]
Why am I mean.
Either you are one in a thousand and he goes for it or he needs to latch on to a woman.
Maybe a bit of both.
I think you understand people who need, need, NEED to be in a relationship a lot better than I do.
[/quote]
Some people might want, want, WANT to be in a relationship.
I was last minimally involved with this guy a year and a half or so ago. At that time, he was coming out of what sounded like some transitional post-divorce stuff. I didn’t and don’t see him as desperate, as he has definite market value and if he only wanted a relationship, any relationship, would have one. He also chooses to live in our remote area rather than in the urban settings where most of his work is centered, which suggests that a relationship is not at the top of his priority list.
Now, one possibility is that he enjoys cat-and-mousing goofy, earnest women for the entertainment value it provides and isn’t interested in a relationship at all. If so there’s a chance that I’ll wind up being drawn in and will ultimately be spectacularly hurt. Could be. I worry it! But I don’t think that’s it.
Again I note that men are incomprehensible creatures, despite what Mr. Foxworthy says. [/quote]
Too much wanting pretty much is needing.
Your argument is the equivalent of arguing that sluts would just fuck anybody.
They dont, the fuck as high upwards as possible.
A needy man would not just “relationship” anybody too, they go as high as they can get.
Now, as for how high his SMP might be, you have already been with one paper alpha.
To realize his potential, he would have to know its there, if he does not, he could be a total beta shlub in a nice package.
Getting a bit clingy seems to indicate that he does not know that he is enough.
[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]theBeth wrote:
Wow. I am not qualified to contribute to this thread. I don’t know if there’s any such thing as true commitment or fidelity and I wish I was a willowy thing with librarian glasses who only attracted geeky intelligent types instead of narcissists and sociopaths.
I AM writing a paper on polyamory, however. Anyone got input on that?[/quote]
PLUS, I can’t hang from the side of a cliff because I’m neither brave enough nor strong enough. And that’s a cool thing to do.[/quote]
Try a rock climbing gym! AC is right, you might be surprised how quickly you get a knack for it. I was a bit reluctant to try it at first because I’m afraid of heights but it is soooo much fun. It has less to do with strength and more to do with planning out your next move.
Glad to hear that your conversation went well and that he seems to be understanding of where you are at with things.
[/quote]
I actually have done quite a bit of wall climbing, and you’re right, it’s fun. But a rock wall is not a windy sheer rock surface way up on a mountain, or at least the place I go to isn’t!