Men afraid of commitment?

Off Topic
281

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]
You missed your calling.[/quote]

I tried to recruit him!

284

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Orion I figured out what I find so annoying about you.

At first I thought it was just your world view and aspie bitterness about women, but now I realize what it actually is.

You just marble mouth all the fuckin time, have you ever wrote a concise post in your life? Do you talk like this in the real world? Shit conversations with you must be like doing LSD.[/quote]

You should see me when I am stoned, then its insinuations and innuendos all the way.

As for aspie, there is something to that, mostly because the people who coined the terms I use were exactly that.

I think what really annoys you though is that at its core, my view of women and relationships with them is utterly void of emotions.

That is necessarily aspie as such, it is inhuman.

A bit…unsettling.

Also, some people get me just fine, so maybe its you. [/quote]

I have a hard time buying your whole view of women and relationships being “utterly void of emotions”. So, are you saying that when you are in a relationship, you are completely devoid of emotions? [/quote]

No, my analysis is.

Also, I dont do relationships.

285

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Here is the interesting thing:

If anyone felt the stronge urge to do so, you sometimes have ACs and my posts. replying to the same poster back to back.

80 to 90 % of times its more or less the same reply, emphasizing slightly different aspects of the situation, but hey…

Somehow it turns out however that I am bitter, jaded, musthavebeenhurtgaylivesinmomsbasement cantgetadategooglelistoffemaleshamingtactics, whereas he just knows whats going on.

Oh well…[/quote]

AC shows some capacity for flexibility of thought. The day he first added the “NOT ALL WOMEN” disclaimer, my heart swelled with pride.

He has consistently shown curiosity about others’ views, whether or not he ultimately agreed with them, and I feel like I’ve seen him change and grow. I would like to believe posters here who have been reading me for some time would say the same of me, both in terms of growth and openness. I’ve learned so much here, and it’s changed me. I don’t see that you’ve changed, though, orion.

I would also add that you have a nasty streak. You are the only one EVER, in my entire life - and I’ve been called a lot of things by various people along the way - the only one to EVER call me anything even remotely like a “cockhopper,” or whatever it was. I’m sure that’s not the only such comment, which say more about you than the people you say them to.

AC comes off as someone who likes women, but doesn’t trust them. You come off as someone who manipulates women because you like to get fucked, but who neither likes nor trusts them.

And for the record, I have steadfastly disagreed that AC “knows what’s going on” with women. I just acknowledge that he’s good at casual dating![/quote]

Yes, I do have a nasty streak, trust me, so does he.

I am 100% sure of that.

Also, NAWALT, AWALT, in some ways they are, in some ways they are not.

Depending on how deep you want to go, the more AWALT.

Finally, if you did not hop the cock there is no reason for you to be all flustered, if you cannot escape the urge to puff your feathers its either

a) you hopped the cock or

b) you are all indignant on behalf of women who indeed rode the carousel because, female sollipsism.

286

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Lots of good stuff in here, AC, but I think it suffers a bit from lack of knowledge regardng the nature of the “culture” of a MH center setting.[/quote]

I’m sure it’s like many offices, where the work/play/frienship boundaries get blurry. And that’s fine when you are just chuggin along and things are good. But when it’s time to leave or advance or otherwise “change”, you gotta look out for number one without stepping in number two. Many “work friendships” don’t survive one person or the other leaving the same place of employment. Which only goes to show you how much “weight” you should give such relationships and not compromise your career strategy for something ephemeral.[/quote]

I missed this until I saw Chushin’s response above. I’ve been asked to apply by two of my former coworkers, one of whom was recruited by someone she worked with at my last agency before I arrived. She took the second friend, my best friend, with her. If I am offered the job, I will probably ask my current boss if, should another opening arise, I should recommend her.

We’re listening to talk about mothers letting bad men put their penises in little girls’ mouths for drug money. We tend to become very close, and it’s real. Not with every single person you work with, but the relationships are more than just polite or water cooler chit-chat based.

287

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Here is the interesting thing:

If anyone felt the stronge urge to do so, you sometimes have ACs and my posts. replying to the same poster back to back.

80 to 90 % of times its more or less the same reply, emphasizing slightly different aspects of the situation, but hey…

Somehow it turns out however that I am bitter, jaded, musthavebeenhurtgaylivesinmomsbasement cantgetadategooglelistoffemaleshamingtactics, whereas he just knows whats going on.

Oh well…[/quote]

AC shows some capacity for flexibility of thought. The day he first added the “NOT ALL WOMEN” disclaimer, my heart swelled with pride.

He has consistently shown curiosity about others’ views, whether or not he ultimately agreed with them, and I feel like I’ve seen him change and grow. I would like to believe posters here who have been reading me for some time would say the same of me, both in terms of growth and openness. I’ve learned so much here, and it’s changed me. I don’t see that you’ve changed, though, orion.

I would also add that you have a nasty streak. You are the only one EVER, in my entire life - and I’ve been called a lot of things by various people along the way - the only one to EVER call me anything even remotely like a “cockhopper,” or whatever it was. I’m sure that’s not the only such comment, which say more about you than the people you say them to.

AC comes off as someone who likes women, but doesn’t trust them. You come off as someone who manipulates women because you like to get fucked, but who neither likes nor trusts them.

And for the record, I have steadfastly disagreed that AC “knows what’s going on” with women. I just acknowledge that he’s good at casual dating![/quote]

Yes, I do have a nasty streak, trust me, so does he.

I am 100% sure of that.

Also, NAWALT, AWALT, in some ways they are, in some ways they are not.

Depending on how deep you want to go, the more AWALT.

Finally, if you did not hop the cock there is no reason for you to be all flustered, if you cannot escape the urge to puff your feathers its either

a) you hopped the cock or

b) you are all indignant on behalf of women who indeed rode the carousel because, female sollipsism. [/quote]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what hopping the cock is or why I would be indignant about other women’s sexual choices. Do I care how much sex other people have or with what variety of people? Why no, no I do not. Why on earth do you?

288

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Here is the interesting thing:

If anyone felt the stronge urge to do so, you sometimes have ACs and my posts. replying to the same poster back to back.

80 to 90 % of times its more or less the same reply, emphasizing slightly different aspects of the situation, but hey…

Somehow it turns out however that I am bitter, jaded, musthavebeenhurtgaylivesinmomsbasement cantgetadategooglelistoffemaleshamingtactics, whereas he just knows whats going on.

Oh well…[/quote]

AC shows some capacity for flexibility of thought. The day he first added the “NOT ALL WOMEN” disclaimer, my heart swelled with pride.

He has consistently shown curiosity about others’ views, whether or not he ultimately agreed with them, and I feel like I’ve seen him change and grow. I would like to believe posters here who have been reading me for some time would say the same of me, both in terms of growth and openness. I’ve learned so much here, and it’s changed me. I don’t see that you’ve changed, though, orion.

I would also add that you have a nasty streak. You are the only one EVER, in my entire life - and I’ve been called a lot of things by various people along the way - the only one to EVER call me anything even remotely like a “cockhopper,” or whatever it was. I’m sure that’s not the only such comment, which say more about you than the people you say them to.

AC comes off as someone who likes women, but doesn’t trust them. You come off as someone who manipulates women because you like to get fucked, but who neither likes nor trusts them.

And for the record, I have steadfastly disagreed that AC “knows what’s going on” with women. I just acknowledge that he’s good at casual dating![/quote]

Yes, I do have a nasty streak, trust me, so does he.

I am 100% sure of that.

Also, NAWALT, AWALT, in some ways they are, in some ways they are not.

Depending on how deep you want to go, the more AWALT.

Finally, if you did not hop the cock there is no reason for you to be all flustered, if you cannot escape the urge to puff your feathers its either

a) you hopped the cock or

b) you are all indignant on behalf of women who indeed rode the carousel because, female sollipsism. [/quote]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what hopping the cock is or why I would be indignant about other women’s sexual choices. Do I care how much sex other people have or with what variety of people? Why no, no I do not. Why on earth do you?

[/quote]

The cock carousel is what 30-40% of women get on in the hope to snatch one of the top 20% of men in their teens and twenties.

Why do I care:

a) because they ruin civilization while they do it. If they go feral, men will too and they already start doing it.

That means we can no longer rely on the surplus a patriarchy provides.

b) the only reason why cock hopping is an option is because in all Western states men provide 70-75% of all income, meaning, we still provide, but no woman has to take that into account because she receives those resources via the state.

c) personally I find it a tad difficult to deal with women. Not for the usual reason, they hem, they haw, they take it casually, until they get to know me better.

Then they want a relationship and all I can think about is… really?

I mean, they want all their options open, want to be sure to get the right one, and when they find out that there could be more its my job to tell them that they have ruined themselves so utterly that what they want is no longer possible for them?

Yeah, I could, they are right about that, but they cant.

NAWALT, maybe, but when it look whats on the market 80% of women necessarily are like that because the rest is not on the market.

290

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Lots of good stuff in here, AC, but I think it suffers a bit from lack of knowledge regardng the nature of the “culture” of a MH center setting.[/quote]

I’m sure it’s like many offices, where the work/play/frienship boundaries get blurry. And that’s fine when you are just chuggin along and things are good. But when it’s time to leave or advance or otherwise “change”, you gotta look out for number one without stepping in number two. Many “work friendships” don’t survive one person or the other leaving the same place of employment. Which only goes to show you how much “weight” you should give such relationships and not compromise your career strategy for something ephemeral.[/quote]

Ok, first, most community mental health centers are populated primarily by women. And that includes the supervisory and admin positions. I know I don’t need to tell a chauvinist male pig like you that that can have implications for how things are done, and what is considered “appropriate.” :wink:

[/quote]

Hostile work environment.

Sue them.

Your Honor, they talk about their feelings all day and their latest break ups while all I want to do is to get the fucking job done…

Yes your honor, I saw a copy of “50 Shades of Grey”…

All I wanted to do was stare into space with a blank expression and they constantly nagged me trying to find out what I was “thinking”…

292

Um, is that not heading into the territory of being a tad misogynist?

293

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

Hostile work environment.

.[/quote]

Hostile Austrian.

:-)[/quote]

Remember the last one?

294

[quote]Der_Steppenwolfe wrote:
Um, is that not heading into the territory of being a tad misogynist?[/quote]

Sexist.

Lets keep our -isms untangled.

295

And I am not kidding either, if you are really, really, sexist it is very hard to be a mysoginist.

296

[quote]orion wrote:
Hostile work environment.

Sue them.

Your Honor, they talk about their feelings all day and their latest break ups while all I want to do is to get the fucking job done…

Yes your honor, I saw a copy of “50 Shades of Grey”…

All I wanted to do was stare into space with a blank expression and they constantly nagged me trying to find out what I was “thinking”…[/quote]

That would be quite a precedent of you could establish it: suing for asexual harassment.

297

[quote]orion wrote:
And I am not kidding either, if you are really, really, sexist it is very hard to be a mysoginist.
[/quote]
Are you implying that misogyny is usually based on thinking women should be like men, and then being pissed because they are not?

298

[quote]undoredo wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
And I am not kidding either, if you are really, really, sexist it is very hard to be a mysoginist.
[/quote]
Are you implying that misogyny is usually based on thinking women should be like men, and then being pissed because they are not?
[/quote]

That was spot on.

A mysoginist sees women as defective men.

299

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Lots of good stuff in here, AC, but I think it suffers a bit from lack of knowledge regardng the nature of the “culture” of a MH center setting.[/quote]

I’m sure it’s like many offices, where the work/play/frienship boundaries get blurry. And that’s fine when you are just chuggin along and things are good. But when it’s time to leave or advance or otherwise “change”, you gotta look out for number one without stepping in number two. Many “work friendships” don’t survive one person or the other leaving the same place of employment. Which only goes to show you how much “weight” you should give such relationships and not compromise your career strategy for something ephemeral.[/quote]

Ok, first, most community mental health centers are populated primarily by women. And that includes the supervisory and admin positions. I know I don’t need to tell a chauvinist male pig like you that that can have implications for how things are done, and what is considered “appropriate.” :wink:

Second, the very nature of the work makes it emotion-laden. The clients’ emotions are a key part of the work done there, and any therapist worth his / his salt recognizes that they also develop complex feelings that need to be attended to, processed and expressed appropriately. Emotion IS the coin of the ream in a MH center.

Next, the workers there are routinely dealing with the ugly, the bizarre, the dangerous, the pathetic, the shocking, and the pitiable aspects of human behavior. In this way, there are similarities to police work, and even to the military. Except that when that actively psychotic paranoid schizophrenic or that enraged child abusing father comes into your office, you DON’T have any weapons to defend yourself should the need arise. Or when that adolescent kid hangs himself some Friday night, unlike a cop, you can’t shrug and forget about it because you’ve been meeting with him for months and genuinely CARE about him. In a word, it is stressful, emotional, mental-health-robbing work in the trenches. And just like cops and soldiers develop deep ties with their co-workers, MH workers do, and they depend on each other to understand and to support them. In some ways, they can become like family.

Finally, by definition, the people who work in this setting are caring, empathic, emotionally-centered people. And their interactions about anything and everything demonstrate this.

My point is that what was appropriate and what were healthy boundaries when I worked for a trading company where worlds away from what was “normal” when I did MH work.

Again, your post was full of good stuff, but my point here is that context is also an important consideration, and the context of MH work is, in some ways, unique.

[/quote]

I’m pickin up what you’re layin down.

300

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

I’m pickin up what you’re layin down. [/quote]

The Law !?!

O_O