Men afraid of commitment?

[Dr_Pangloss]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

This. Is. Perfect.

Boundaries and secondary payoffs…it really has everything.

[Dr_Pangloss]

.

[LoRez]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

You’re underselling yourself… that’s probably more like $5500. Biweekly sessions, $150 a pop, for 18 months.

[WhiteSturgeon]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Okay cant read all of this thread.

Can someone give me some cliff notes?

Q do ever think maybe you think about all this stuff to much? Meaning you OVER think/analyse all this.

Just a thought, dont yell at me [/quote]

I’m going to give what you’ve said a great deal of thought, Derek, and will respond at length after I’ve had time to really turn it over and view it from all angles.

[/quote]
hahahaahahahhahahaa awesome.

I dont believe you go through relationships with your head in the clouds and the lust in your loins, but you also should not go through it like a you are a psychologist analysing every little thing. Just my .02, sometimes what makes a relationship great is a little of both of these. [/quote]

Actually, I think I do exactly that (head in clouds, loins in lust) which seems to be the concensus on this thread, if I’m not misreading AC and Chushin, etc.

I have more to say, naturally, but I need to say some stuff to my agency’s documentation system before I get fired.[/quote]

My loins are always in lust[/quote]

I can buy my own drinks, so don’t think I’m going to kiss you. And I don’t see anyone more than once a week. And this is the last post I’m writing to you until - Thursday![/quote]

Emily, if you ever laid eyes on me you’d be asking to buy my drinks and praying I’d plant a passionate one on ya. I’m sorry but Thursday is not good for me I already have plans with Sturgeon that day.

Yours very truly,

Lusty Loins
[/quote]

Right… If badgering me on the forums constitutes “having plans”. [/quote]

Just do what I do. Insult him in Japanese and Swahili.
[/quote]

You know how to speak Swahili? LOL

Nihongo ga sukoshi hanasemasu. It has been 7 years since I last practiced Japanese. In my case, since I haven’t used it, I really did lose it! Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s making me a little sad - all of that time and effort and I would say at least 80% of it is completely gone. [/quote]

Ganbareba, sugu modoru yo! :-)[/quote]

Well, I do appreciate your confidence! Provided what you wrote, essentially translates to that it will come back to me pretty easily. If I didn’t translate that correctly, then I stand by my statement about it being totally gone.

[angry_chicken]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Lots of good stuff in here, AC, but I think it suffers a bit from lack of knowledge regardng the nature of the “culture” of a MH center setting.[/quote]

I’m sure it’s like many offices, where the work/play/frienship boundaries get blurry. And that’s fine when you are just chuggin along and things are good. But when it’s time to leave or advance or otherwise “change”, you gotta look out for number one without stepping in number two. Many “work friendships” don’t survive one person or the other leaving the same place of employment. Which only goes to show you how much “weight” you should give such relationships and not compromise your career strategy for something ephemeral.

[Varqanir]

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Okay cant read all of this thread.

Can someone give me some cliff notes?

Q do ever think maybe you think about all this stuff to much? Meaning you OVER think/analyse all this.

Just a thought, dont yell at me [/quote]

I’m going to give what you’ve said a great deal of thought, Derek, and will respond at length after I’ve had time to really turn it over and view it from all angles.

[/quote]
hahahaahahahhahahaa awesome.

I dont believe you go through relationships with your head in the clouds and the lust in your loins, but you also should not go through it like a you are a psychologist analysing every little thing. Just my .02, sometimes what makes a relationship great is a little of both of these. [/quote]

Actually, I think I do exactly that (head in clouds, loins in lust) which seems to be the concensus on this thread, if I’m not misreading AC and Chushin, etc.

I have more to say, naturally, but I need to say some stuff to my agency’s documentation system before I get fired.[/quote]

My loins are always in lust[/quote]

I can buy my own drinks, so don’t think I’m going to kiss you. And I don’t see anyone more than once a week. And this is the last post I’m writing to you until - Thursday![/quote]

Emily, if you ever laid eyes on me you’d be asking to buy my drinks and praying I’d plant a passionate one on ya. I’m sorry but Thursday is not good for me I already have plans with Sturgeon that day.

Yours very truly,

Lusty Loins
[/quote]

Right… If badgering me on the forums constitutes “having plans”. [/quote]

Just do what I do. Insult him in Japanese and Swahili.
[/quote]

You know how to speak Swahili? LOL

Nihongo ga sukoshi hanasemasu. It has been 7 years since I last practiced Japanese. In my case, since I haven’t used it, I really did lose it! Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s making me a little sad - all of that time and effort and I would say at least 80% of it is completely gone. [/quote]

Ganbareba, sugu modoru yo! :-)[/quote]

Well, I do appreciate your confidence! Provided what you wrote, essentially translates to that it will come back to me pretty easily. If I didn’t translate that correctly, then I stand by my statement about it being totally gone. [/quote]

Nope, not completely gone, it seems. “If you try, it’ll come back soon” is what Chushin said, and I share the sentiment.

Did you actually spend any time in Japan? Or is your exposure to the language from having Japanese friends and/or an interest in the country?

[WhiteSturgeon]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Okay cant read all of this thread.

Can someone give me some cliff notes?

Q do ever think maybe you think about all this stuff to much? Meaning you OVER think/analyse all this.

Just a thought, dont yell at me [/quote]

I’m going to give what you’ve said a great deal of thought, Derek, and will respond at length after I’ve had time to really turn it over and view it from all angles.

[/quote]
hahahaahahahhahahaa awesome.

I dont believe you go through relationships with your head in the clouds and the lust in your loins, but you also should not go through it like a you are a psychologist analysing every little thing. Just my .02, sometimes what makes a relationship great is a little of both of these. [/quote]

Actually, I think I do exactly that (head in clouds, loins in lust) which seems to be the concensus on this thread, if I’m not misreading AC and Chushin, etc.

I have more to say, naturally, but I need to say some stuff to my agency’s documentation system before I get fired.[/quote]

My loins are always in lust[/quote]

I can buy my own drinks, so don’t think I’m going to kiss you. And I don’t see anyone more than once a week. And this is the last post I’m writing to you until - Thursday![/quote]

Emily, if you ever laid eyes on me you’d be asking to buy my drinks and praying I’d plant a passionate one on ya. I’m sorry but Thursday is not good for me I already have plans with Sturgeon that day.

Yours very truly,

Lusty Loins
[/quote]

Right… If badgering me on the forums constitutes “having plans”. [/quote]

Just do what I do. Insult him in Japanese and Swahili.
[/quote]

You know how to speak Swahili? LOL

Nihongo ga sukoshi hanasemasu. It has been 7 years since I last practiced Japanese. In my case, since I haven’t used it, I really did lose it! Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s making me a little sad - all of that time and effort and I would say at least 80% of it is completely gone. [/quote]

Ganbareba, sugu modoru yo! :-)[/quote]

Well, I do appreciate your confidence! Provided what you wrote, essentially translates to that it will come back to me pretty easily. If I didn’t translate that correctly, then I stand by my statement about it being totally gone. [/quote]

Nope, not completely gone, it seems. “If you try, it’ll come back soon” is what Chushin said, and I share the sentiment.

Did you actually spend any time in Japan? Or is your exposure to the language from having Japanese friends and/or an interest in the country?[/quote]

I’ve always had significant interest in Japan, I just love the culture! Oh, and I LOVE Japanese cuisine. I can make pretty awesome okonomiyaki, if I do say so myself! I had a very good friend from Japan and I suppose that had some influence in inspiring me to become more acquainted with speaking the language. Do you live in Japan?

[EmilyQ]

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Oh, I meant to post earlier - I have an interview tomorrow afternoon. Former coworkers and friends referred me for an opening in their practice and it’s too good a job not to pursue.

Yesterday, my supervisor, who is wonderful, offered that I could skip tomorrow’s weekly meeting to work on paperwork because I’m so behind, which is because I’ve had two clients hospitalized over the last week or so for mental health stuff, which is time consuming as well as emotionally draining. So now my entire team is being extra nice to me.

Anyway, I’d sort of been toying with the idea of calling in sick because I have to get dressed for the interview and obviously can’t do it at work. So, the supervisor is being all supportive and all, while meanwhile I’m sort of playing the field, and I wound up doing the same exact thing I do with men. First I hedged when she suggested I take time Wednesday, saying without making eye contact that I was thinking of taking a personal day.

I left her office awkwardly (we’re friends). Then I went away and thought about it last night and this morning and decided that I need to tell her about the interview and that I didn’t seek it out (I wasn’t job hunting, honest!) even though I KNOW you don’t mention interviews to bosses.

So what I have realized is that the men don’t have anything to do with it. It’s me! I can’t handle ANY of it. I was all set to march in and confess this morning, and had gotten all bucked up for it, but she wasn’t here and then a coworker did an intervention on me (which mostly consisted in deciding together that the supervisor will be stressed by the thought of me leaving and it should wait for her sake, because we both like her).

How do otherwise honest people handle these standard deceptions? That’s what I need to figure out. I have therapy tonight, so that’s good.[/quote]

Emily, what kind of work do you do? Good luck on your job interview! [/quote]

I’m a clinical social worker - therapist - currently in community mental health and working primarily with children and families. Interviewing to be a clinician in a family medical setting, so less dire and tragic, hopefully. And with more pay .[/quote]

I’m an LMFT! I’m in private practice now and I can’t tell you how much better it is on this side!!! I could never, ever, ever go back to a clinic. Huge, high risk caseload and little pay… No thank you, I’m done with that! I hope the new potential job works out for you. [/quote]

Do you want to be my new friend? I’ll always tell you things I shouldn’t, I promise!

Two of my former coworkers left our previous agency for the group I’m applying to and rave about how pleasant and low-stress it is, because A) much less paperwork, and B) anyone needy enough goes to our former agency for wraparound services. I’m excited at the prospect. Still, if I don’t get it there are options for change where I am, so either way. But hopefully the more-pay-less-stress way. I work primarily with kids going in and out of hospital settings currently. Anyone too acute for the waiting list. It’s eating at me.

[WhiteSturgeon]

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
Oh, I meant to post earlier - I have an interview tomorrow afternoon. Former coworkers and friends referred me for an opening in their practice and it’s too good a job not to pursue.

Yesterday, my supervisor, who is wonderful, offered that I could skip tomorrow’s weekly meeting to work on paperwork because I’m so behind, which is because I’ve had two clients hospitalized over the last week or so for mental health stuff, which is time consuming as well as emotionally draining. So now my entire team is being extra nice to me.

Anyway, I’d sort of been toying with the idea of calling in sick because I have to get dressed for the interview and obviously can’t do it at work. So, the supervisor is being all supportive and all, while meanwhile I’m sort of playing the field, and I wound up doing the same exact thing I do with men. First I hedged when she suggested I take time Wednesday, saying without making eye contact that I was thinking of taking a personal day.

I left her office awkwardly (we’re friends). Then I went away and thought about it last night and this morning and decided that I need to tell her about the interview and that I didn’t seek it out (I wasn’t job hunting, honest!) even though I KNOW you don’t mention interviews to bosses.

So what I have realized is that the men don’t have anything to do with it. It’s me! I can’t handle ANY of it. I was all set to march in and confess this morning, and had gotten all bucked up for it, but she wasn’t here and then a coworker did an intervention on me (which mostly consisted in deciding together that the supervisor will be stressed by the thought of me leaving and it should wait for her sake, because we both like her).

How do otherwise honest people handle these standard deceptions? That’s what I need to figure out. I have therapy tonight, so that’s good.[/quote]

Emily, what kind of work do you do? Good luck on your job interview! [/quote]

I’m a clinical social worker - therapist - currently in community mental health and working primarily with children and families. Interviewing to be a clinician in a family medical setting, so less dire and tragic, hopefully. And with more pay .[/quote]

I’m an LMFT! I’m in private practice now and I can’t tell you how much better it is on this side!!! I could never, ever, ever go back to a clinic. Huge, high risk caseload and little pay… No thank you, I’m done with that! I hope the new potential job works out for you. [/quote]

Do you want to be my new friend? I’ll always tell you things I shouldn’t, I promise!

Two of my former coworkers left our previous agency for the group I’m applying to and rave about how pleasant and low-stress it is, because A) much less paperwork, and B) anyone needy enough goes to our former agency for wraparound services. I’m excited at the prospect. Still, if I don’t get it there are options for change where I am, so either way. But hopefully the more-pay-less-stress way. I work primarily with kids going in and out of hospital settings currently. Anyone too acute for the waiting list. It’s eating at me. [/quote]

LOL, you are too funny!!!

Less paperwork is always a HUGE plus! Stable, high functioning clients, even a bigger plus! The prospect sounds good. If for whatever reason that doesn’t work out, keep your eyes peeled because the opportunities are everywhere in our field. I have a feeling that if you do end up landing this new job, your current one may try to entice you to stay…

[WhiteSturgeon]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]The Other Titan wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Okay cant read all of this thread.

Can someone give me some cliff notes?

Q do ever think maybe you think about all this stuff to much? Meaning you OVER think/analyse all this.

Just a thought, dont yell at me [/quote]

I’m going to give what you’ve said a great deal of thought, Derek, and will respond at length after I’ve had time to really turn it over and view it from all angles.

[/quote]
hahahaahahahhahahaa awesome.

I dont believe you go through relationships with your head in the clouds and the lust in your loins, but you also should not go through it like a you are a psychologist analysing every little thing. Just my .02, sometimes what makes a relationship great is a little of both of these. [/quote]

Actually, I think I do exactly that (head in clouds, loins in lust) which seems to be the concensus on this thread, if I’m not misreading AC and Chushin, etc.

I have more to say, naturally, but I need to say some stuff to my agency’s documentation system before I get fired.[/quote]

My loins are always in lust[/quote]

I can buy my own drinks, so don’t think I’m going to kiss you. And I don’t see anyone more than once a week. And this is the last post I’m writing to you until - Thursday![/quote]

Emily, if you ever laid eyes on me you’d be asking to buy my drinks and praying I’d plant a passionate one on ya. I’m sorry but Thursday is not good for me I already have plans with Sturgeon that day.

Yours very truly,

Lusty Loins
[/quote]

Right… If badgering me on the forums constitutes “having plans”. [/quote]

Just do what I do. Insult him in Japanese and Swahili.
[/quote]

You know how to speak Swahili? LOL

Nihongo ga sukoshi hanasemasu. It has been 7 years since I last practiced Japanese. In my case, since I haven’t used it, I really did lose it! Now that I’m thinking about it, it’s making me a little sad - all of that time and effort and I would say at least 80% of it is completely gone. [/quote]

Ganbareba, sugu modoru yo! :-)[/quote]

Well, I do appreciate your confidence! Provided what you wrote, essentially translates to that it will come back to me pretty easily. If I didn’t translate that correctly, then I stand by my statement about it being totally gone. [/quote]
Nope, you got it.

Can I ask what motivated you to study Japanese?

EDIT: Never mind – saw your note above.

What kind of Okonomiyaki? Tokyo? Hiroshima? What?

And, no, Varq bailed out from here a while back. Couldn’t adjust to the culture apparently.

Ha ha ha! Just kidding – he’s one of the few folks I know who knows more about this place than I do.[/quote]

Kansai hu okonomiyaki. I’ve never had the Hiroshima variety; I’ll have to find a recipe. Are you Japanese?

[WhiteSturgeon]

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Hey WS – Edited my post to you above. In case you missed it.

BTW, you might find this interesting:

Japan

Oh yeah, I’ve actually heard about that! I’ll have to take a look through that thread.

[EmilyQ]

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Lots of good stuff in here, AC, but I think it suffers a bit from lack of knowledge regardng the nature of the “culture” of a MH center setting.[/quote]

I’m going to go back and address your post specifically, AC, because you’re right about a lot of stuff, but Chushin is correct about this. There’s a very “front line” feel to what I and my coworkers do and a well-oiled team is very, very tight. My current supervisor is extremely new in that role and is buckling under the weight of it. We were friends before the promotion. My departure will almost certainly have a tremendous impact because I’m the strongest member of the team, and because it’s hard not only to find licensed (advanced) clinicians in our area, but to find any at all. We have only this past month filled our last open job (with someone freshly graduated) and started thinking we could effectively address the needs (and demands) of the community. She and I are the only ones able to take private insurance, and the kids on my caseload will have a big impact on the people who have to pick them up, because they’re intense and time consuming.

So replaceable, yes, of course, but not easily, and I’m at the core of the program, which serves exquisitely vulnerable children, which makes it all seem really important in a way that’s emotional - and I think probably needs to be.

[Derek542]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]
You missed your calling.

[Varqanir]

[quote]WhiteSturgeon wrote:
I’ve always had significant interest in Japan, I just love the culture! Oh, and I LOVE Japanese cuisine. I can make pretty awesome okonomiyaki, if I do say so myself! I had a very good friend from Japan and I suppose that had some influence in inspiring me to become more acquainted with speaking the language. Do you live in Japan? [/quote]

I used to. I was there for almost 15 years in all. I may go back in a year or so, depending on how things go. I don’t have to explain the appeal of the culture and the cuisine to you, but (not even knowing you) I will predict that if you ever went to Japan you would love it and never want to leave. I should have never left.

Oh, by the way, if you ever make it to Chushin’s home town (Chushin likes to keep his location seeeeekrit, so I can’t tell you where that is), but they make the BEST okonomiyaki there. I’ve had all types, but that’s the best, hands down.

[angry_chicken]

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this.

It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy.

The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”.

A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.

That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]
You missed your calling.[/quote]

Thanks, but I’m just an ex-con without a HS diploma, bro. I got an advanced degree from the University of Hard Knocks and Stupid Mistakes! But I paid attention in class. LOL

[EmilyQ]

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Em, I’m NOT trying to be an asshole when I write this, I swear. I would not take the time or make the effort if I did not genuinely care for you, so know that when you read this. [/quote]

I do know that! As well as knowing you’re not an asshole. You don’t think I’m an asshole when I helpfully Tell You Things, I hope! (Do you? Seems like I’ve told you some pretty severe things at times.)

[quote]It’s a lack of mature boundary function coupled with an overblown sense of empathy compounded by a touch of blind, self indulgent humility. You have holes in your boundary. Period.

Boundary function:
Your career is YOURS. Navigating the waters toward better pay and better positions means that you have to play your cards close to your vest. Especially if you’ve allowed yourself to become “friends” with your boss. Such relationships are inappropriate. It’s perfectly fine to be “friendly”, “helpful”, “motivated”, “positive”, etc… with your boss. But FRIENDSHIP implies two individuals on EQUAL footing. The fact that she is your superior (therefore controlling critical aspects of your quality of life, time and livelihood) means that the “friendship” dynamic is Irrevocably skewed. Your “gut” knows this, which is why you are feeling such trepidation about talking to her about a possible change. But your “rational mind”, and your emotional landscape (protected by your porous boundary) is feeling guilt and shame. This will affect your relationship. You are acting as if you have the same standards for loyalty and fidelity with your job as you would with a marriage (or committed relationship). THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE.

Here’s what you owe your employer: Two weeks notice and a clean transition. THAT’S IT. You don’t owe them a heads up to start looking for your replacement before you get a position elsewhere. There are PLENTY of job applicants who would LOVE to apply for your position. You are replaceable, I promise.

Too much empathy:
You are walking on a slippery slope, my friend. In a relationship, the only consequence is a few bruised feelings and some emotional turmoil - something you are eminently qualified to deal with and process effectively. Your slippery boundaries with your JOB can affect your income, your insurance, your retirement, your ability to find work and the overall quality of your entire CAREER. That’s not something to risk by allowing emotional decisions to influence your career strategy. The higher you get in “Life”, the higher the stakes. You are interviewing for a position that is better than where you are currently employed and SO ARE OTHER PEOPLE. Someone is going to “lose” the job if you get it. IF you get the job, you will have to leave your current one. FEELINGS WILL BE BRUISED. But bruises heal with time. Know that. If your boss/friend is really a friend, she will be happy for you that you’ve found something that will be more in alignment with your desires and professional development. If she is hurt or angry about you leaving, or if she views it as a betrayal, then SHE WAS NEVER YOUR FRIEND, she was just using an inappropriate employee retention strategy (consciously or unconsciously) so there’s no loss. Check your empathy at the door or, as we say in construction, “leave your feelings in the truck”. [/quote]

I’ve already talked about my work culture, but as for the empathy piece, I agree. And hence my noting it as a shortcoming, or difficulty or whatever. I do NOT need to be sharing about this both because it can potentially backfire on me and because it brings negativity to my workplace that is not currently there. Same as with the men, really.

[quote]A TOUCH of blind, self indulgent humility:
I hesitated a bit before putting this one in there because it sounds worse than it actually is. It’s the “nice guy/gal” syndrome. It’s the “politically correct” taken to illogical lengths. It’s where YOU get a secondary payoff by “suffering” as a result of a “noble” decision. You may sabotoge you career by tipping your hand too soon with your boss/friend, “but at least I had the integrity to be upfront and honest”. Bullshit, bullshit, BULLSHIT. Your job is not your husband. You don’t owe them a “heads up” that may turn around and bite you in the ass. YOUR career moves are YOURS. Make them with logic, maturity, honesty and respect. Not with guilt, shame, awkwardness and manipulation.[/quote]

I read this two or three times, thinking. You’ll be happy to hear that my therapist questions whether I seek to punish myself for perceived childhood sins, so in essence would agree with you. But I (and she now, I think) don’t think that’s accurate. I just don’t like for people to be unhappy if I can prevent it, and particularly if I care about them. Once I care enough, or perceive there to be vulnerability, my anxiety kicks in pretty heavily when they’re unhappy.

But I don’t want to suffer! Not at all. I’m not in the least self-destructive, and in fact just the opposite.

The nice girl thing is fair, but probably a minor motivation for me, and I would say the payoff is all positive. Eases me through life. No, it’s worse than that. I want to be an entire hero!

[quote]

Your strategy spelled out: Take whatever personal days you need to prepare for your interviews - you have them, the days are YOURS to do with as you see fit. Do NOT tell your boss, or ANYONE you work with, or anyone in the same social circle as anyone you work with, that you are interviewing for another position. Go to as many interviews as it takes to show your potential employer how fucking awesome you are and how lucky they would be to have someone of your caliber on their team. When you are given the offer letter, let them know you need to give your current employer two weeks and a clean transition. They will expect this and understand. Type up your resignation letter and THEN tell your friend/boss, letter in hand, that you are leaving for greener pastures and that you are grateful for all the wonderful times you spent working here. Express appropriate interest in continuing your friendship. Place the letter on her desk and leave so she can process it. Show up to work the next day and be prepared to cooperate 110% with whatever procedure they need to find, hire and train your replacement. Make detailed transition notes on each of your cases. Give your clients reasonable closure if you feel it’s appropriate.
That will be $275.00 LOL[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time. I may have more to say about it in the morning, when I’m thinking more clearly.

But for the record, my therapist agreed with everything I had to say tonight and thinks I’m very emotionally healthy (but not to tell work about the interview) and likes the guy and doesn’t seem to particularly care if I date around. But of course, she’s suspect because she sees the world exactly as I do, mostly.