[quote]Airtruth wrote:
<> - Can we get bullet points?
JH: Statins ain’t shit.
Dk: Everybody would die without doctors.[/quote]
Lol
I will put together a power point using puppets made out of shirts from the homeless, stitched together by 10 year old Asian children.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
<> - Can we get bullet points?
JH: Statins ain’t shit.
Dk: Everybody would die without doctors.[/quote]
Lol
I will put together a power point using puppets made out of shirts from the homeless, stitched together by 10 year old Asian children. [/quote]
You work for Apple? iDerek?
I thought you were a murse?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
<> - Can we get bullet points?
JH: Statins ain’t shit.
Dk: Everybody would die without doctors.[/quote]
Lol
I will put together a power point using puppets made out of shirts from the homeless, stitched together by 10 year old Asian children. [/quote]
You work for Apple? iDerek?
I thought you were a murse?[/quote]
I have connections, I stopped being a murse a couple of years ago.
Now I do business
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.
It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.
I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]
great post.
i was wondering when real health care professionals were going to chime in this thread(x, derek, myself), sad that none of us were invited.
here is a stat for you: if you take more than 6 prescripion medications, the chance of adverse reactions to at least one of them interacting with each other is almost 100%. do you know how many FAT, 60-80 year olds who are so obese they cannot even toilet themselves without help that are on DOZENS of medications.
yet everytime they come into the ED not feeling well, they blame it on their healthcare provider or not having enough or the “right” medications.
we have figured out how to prolong life in this society, but not prolong quality of life. we are living longer, but we are living longer sicker and miserable.
[/quote]
Heavy how many times have you seen a patient in a hospital gown showing ass holding on to an IV pole out from the ER smoking? How many obese patients have you had dying in the ER from Diabetes/MI/Stroke and their obese family are sitting in the lobby eating the right side of the menu from McDonalds? [/quote]
yup…
here is another one for you, how many patients have you seen leave the ED/hospital AMA when they are actually having a freaking heart attack or other serious medical condition because they will not be allowed to smoke?
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
do you know how many FAT, 60-80 year olds who are so obese they cannot even toilet themselves without help that are on DOZENS of medications. [/quote]
Honestly, I would bet against there being a high percentage of obese 60 - 80 year olds on 24+ medications.[/quote]
you would be dead wrong.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmm,
I have had many patients who were extremely obese, on many different medications to control high blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol issues. I would have to say the vast majority of them refuse to change their lifestyle at all and seem to completely ignore how much effort it takes them just to move as a result of the fat they are carrying.
It is great to discuss “prevention”. However, in the real world, the majority of the human population would eat cake, screw, and sleep their way through life even if it was killing them.
I have heard many times, “I’m not giving up my fried chicken and cornbread!!”…way more than I’ve heard. “whew, I sure am glad I stopped smoking, started training 3-4 days a week in a gym and quit eating all of my meals at KFC…where’s the PREVENTION WARD???”[/quote]
great post.
i was wondering when real health care professionals were going to chime in this thread(x, derek, myself), sad that none of us were invited.
here is a stat for you: if you take more than 6 prescripion medications, the chance of adverse reactions to at least one of them interacting with each other is almost 100%. do you know how many FAT, 60-80 year olds who are so obese they cannot even toilet themselves without help that are on DOZENS of medications.
yet everytime they come into the ED not feeling well, they blame it on their healthcare provider or not having enough or the “right” medications.
we have figured out how to prolong life in this society, but not prolong quality of life. we are living longer, but we are living longer sicker and miserable.
[/quote]
Heavy how many times have you seen a patient in a hospital gown showing ass holding on to an IV pole out from the ER smoking? How many obese patients have you had dying in the ER from Diabetes/MI/Stroke and their obese family are sitting in the lobby eating the right side of the menu from McDonalds? [/quote]
yup…
here is another one for you, how many patients have you seen leave the ED/hospital AMA when they are actually having a freaking heart attack or other serious medical condition because they will not be allowed to smoke?[/quote]
What? don’t let Countingbeans say this, how dare one not be allowed to do something in a hospital 
poly-pharm is a huge problem, it is not uncommon to see 20 somethings already on several different medications in my setting.
pretty much every time an elderly person comes into the ED, they are lugging in with them the “bucket/bag-o-meds”
the med reconciliation that we have to do often takes up much of one whole page, sometimes two pages.
does my setting (the ED) select out for the sicker people who would happen to be on more medications than the average population? of course.
I thought we were talking about sick people thought, healthy people need not be on many if any meds, and i am confused, that is not what I thought we were talking about.
point i am trying to make is that we are as an industry/society prescribing way too many medications.
when the odd old person comes into my ED sick as hell, one of the first things our hospitalist do is go through their meds and trim the fat.
these people often have multiple doctors, they have a GP, a surgeon or surgeons, gastroenterologist, a nephrologist, a cardiologist, and endocrinologist, ect. they usually have at least one appointment a month with at least one of these doctors, and with any vague complaint, the MD usually prescribes a new medication, because the public has been trained to think there is a medication to fix everything, and if they go to the doctor and do not get a script, they (the doctors) have not done their job.
[quote]kakno wrote:
No. They have nothing to do with each other, that’s the point. Statins are a good idea for people with previous stroke, previous MI, people with familial hypercholeterolemia and hypertensive patients with other risk factors. There are lots of studies that support this. One little fly in the soup won’t change that. Several flies might.
[/quote]
I was confused by your wording, I didn’t quite understand where high fat diet fits into your argument. I can agree that statins may work for some people.
On a separate note gene therapy has been approved for hypercholesterolemic patients (low LDL receptor activity).
[quote]kakno wrote:
Statins are not an “immoral money grab”, do you really think we’d keep prescribing them if they were?
[/quote]
yes absolutely
i.e. using statins as a prophylactic measure (recent proposal in the uk).
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
point i am trying to make is that we are as an industry/society prescribing way too many medications.
[/quote]
this, some people really need the medication
but the amount of people that need it versus the amount that take is disproportionately small.
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[/quote]
My honest take on that is what the hell do you expect kids to act like when our news programs contain 3 separate lines of news going at the same time and video games allow faster relation to random moving objects? My little cousin plays Call of Duty and makes videos on youtube showing other kids how to play. His reaction time to the things on screen is ridiculous. You can only get that quick at something like that at the age of 13 by literally growing up with it.
In effect, we have trained kids to have milli-second attention spans.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[/quote]
My honest take on that is what the hell do you expect kids to act like when our news programs contain 3 separate lines of news going at the same time and video games allow faster relation to random moving objects? My little cousin plays Call of Duty and makes videos on youtube showing other kids how to play. His reaction time to the things on screen is ridiculous. You can only get that quick at something like that at the age of 13 by literally growing up with it.
In effect, we have trained kids to have milli-second attention spans.[/quote]
True without the ability to verbally communicate effectively.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[/quote]
My honest take on that is what the hell do you expect kids to act like when our news programs contain 3 separate lines of news going at the same time and video games allow faster relation to random moving objects? My little cousin plays Call of Duty and makes videos on youtube showing other kids how to play. His reaction time to the things on screen is ridiculous. You can only get that quick at something like that at the age of 13 by literally growing up with it.
In effect, we have trained kids to have milli-second attention spans.[/quote]
True without the ability to communicate effectively.
[/quote]
social interaction is almost a skill of the past.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[/quote]
My honest take on that is what the hell do you expect kids to act like when our news programs contain 3 separate lines of news going at the same time and video games allow faster relation to random moving objects? My little cousin plays Call of Duty and makes videos on youtube showing other kids how to play. His reaction time to the things on screen is ridiculous. You can only get that quick at something like that at the age of 13 by literally growing up with it.
In effect, we have trained kids to have milli-second attention spans.[/quote]
True without the ability to communicate effectively.
[/quote]
My cousin is a freak. I swear most kids don’t process things like that until college. I think his youtube handle is “Techbeast”.
I agree that most will have trouble with communication…and as a result, human communication may change drastically over time. I don’t necessarily see that as bad in the long run…but right now…it just seems to make more overly educated random idiots who can recite way more than they actually know.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I can’t stand it that almost every young person and kid I know is on some fucking ADHD-type of medication.
[/quote]
My honest take on that is what the hell do you expect kids to act like when our news programs contain 3 separate lines of news going at the same time and video games allow faster relation to random moving objects? My little cousin plays Call of Duty and makes videos on youtube showing other kids how to play. His reaction time to the things on screen is ridiculous. You can only get that quick at something like that at the age of 13 by literally growing up with it.
In effect, we have trained kids to have milli-second attention spans.[/quote]
True without the ability to communicate effectively.
[/quote]
My cousin is a freak. I swear most kids don’t process things like that until college. I think his youtube handle is “Techbeast”.
I agree that most will have trouble with communication…and as a result, human communication may change drastically over time. I don’t necessarily see that as bad in the long run…but right now…it just seems to make more overly educated random idiots who can recite way more than they actually know.[/quote]
I went back and edited cause I meant verbally. I have hired a lot of young kids with talent however they lacked the ability to really articulate themselves with older generation or people in supervisor positions.
Tech savy youth are awesome just dont ask them to speak.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
What? don’t let Countingbeans say this, how dare one not be allowed to do something in a hospital :D[/quote]
Yes, influencing the choice of breast v. formula is the same thing as letting someone blow second hand smoke in ill people’s air.
Yup.
Good one hommie.
Knee slapper.
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
No. They have nothing to do with each other, that’s the point. Statins are a good idea for people with previous stroke, previous MI, people with familial hypercholeterolemia and hypertensive patients with other risk factors. There are lots of studies that support this. One little fly in the soup won’t change that. Several flies might.
[/quote]
I was confused by your wording, I didn’t quite understand where high fat diet fits into your argument. I can agree that statins may work for some people.
On a separate note gene therapy has been approved for hypercholesterolemic patients (low LDL receptor activity).[/quote]
Since JF referenced Ravnskov and Dahlqvist, two not very highly regarded cherry pickers who build a lot of their argumentation regarding cholesterol on the good effects of high fat diets, it fits.
yes absolutely
i.e. using statins as a prophylactic measure (recent proposal in the uk).[/quote]
This is going nowhere.
[quote]kakno wrote:
Since JF referenced Ravnskov and Dahlqvist, two not very highly regarded cherry pickers who build a lot of their argumentation regarding cholesterol on the good effects of high fat diets, it fits.
[/quote]
ok, but to start with there was never anything contra indicating a high fat diet. The “original” ancel keys research never showed that high fat was bad to start with
[quote]kakno wrote:
This is going nowhere. [/quote]
because you decided so?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
What? don’t let Countingbeans say this, how dare one not be allowed to do something in a hospital :D[/quote]
Yes, influencing the choice of breast v. formula is the same thing as letting someone blow second hand smoke in ill people’s air.
Yup.
Good one hommie.
Knee slapper.
[/quote]
K, you got me there
[quote]kakno wrote:
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
[quote]kakno wrote:
No. They have nothing to do with each other, that’s the point. Statins are a good idea for people with previous stroke, previous MI, people with familial hypercholeterolemia and hypertensive patients with other risk factors. There are lots of studies that support this. One little fly in the soup won’t change that. Several flies might.
[/quote]
I was confused by your wording, I didn’t quite understand where high fat diet fits into your argument. I can agree that statins may work for some people.
On a separate note gene therapy has been approved for hypercholesterolemic patients (low LDL receptor activity).[/quote]
Since JF referenced Ravnskov and Dahlqvist, two not very highly regarded cherry pickers who build a lot of their argumentation regarding cholesterol on the good effects of high fat diets, it fits.
yes absolutely
i.e. using statins as a prophylactic measure (recent proposal in the uk).[/quote]
This is going nowhere. [/quote]
LOL, not highly regarded, as if anyone that comes out against the norm is going to be well accepted in the community. There are numerous others with the same line of thinking btw.
Also, to Derek on the quality of doctors in the area, not sure if it is just my area or not, but a senior the other day showed me her blood work.
She has a ton of health issues, is on statins, but the crazy thing to me was her Vit D levels… 7.9, holy hell talk low and the doctor never discussed supplementation with her, she put it on herself to do it. Not only this, but he refused to give her the blood work results for a long time.
I realize soemthing like vit D has gotten a lot of attention in the medical community now, but how does this slip by? I hate to say it, but my thoughts are, of course she’s on statins, they have the industry pushing them at every angle, but something like vitamin D doesn’t get prescribed, WTF… And I will say, every single person I’ve seen who has low levels their doc has put them on D3, such an odd case here.
Anyways, that just hit me last night and I realize the conversation has changed directions a bit.
As for the kids and ADD, of course many of us have our own thoughts on why this is the case, and it will seem odd once again that on a site like this I may be laughed at on this one, but the diet cannot be overlooked here. Not saying it’s the main cause or it’s the cure, but look at all the sugar kids consume these days and the crazy low amounts of omega-3s in the diet. Tell me nutritional deficiencies won’t lead to altered brain function.
Again, I realize there are other angles to this issue beyond just diet.