I’ve been an aide, not in that heavy of a capacity, but I’ve been on teams where I worked very closely with someone of pretty big importance.
When people with pad and paper and tape recorders are hanging around the stance has to be “You’re not here for me, you’re here for my boss, so fuck you I’m not telling you shit, what I think and what I say matters none.”
I’m dissapointed today. All the way around. Preventable, avoidable. But who knows… Patraeus is the best if not only choice for this spot.[/quote]
I guarantee those aides are headed back to front line units ASAP. Those aide spots are sought-after jobs for fast movers, and those guys screwed the pooch big time.
This has to be at least the 2nd time he has enbeded reporters with him while commanding Afganistan. Seems to me he wanted to let the young liberal readeship have a glimpse at his job and the troops. Instead he got a huge piece yellow-journalism.
In addition to letting himself and his staff be seen talking smack around a reporter he choose Rolling Stones reporter. Forgeting that this magezine is about selling stuff that spoiled and drugged up celebrities do. The article was filled with Fuck-bombs, and fuck authority type stories.
As for Gen Petraeus… he is really the top choice for the job. The other guy is Gen. Odierno, but is in Iraq. In the meantime Obama will put somebody in USCENTCOM. Most likely Petraeus #2 guy in there in Tampa
[quote]pushharder wrote:
<<< Obama does not come out of this looking good. >>>[/quote]
No he won’t because this fiasco puts the military high command imprimatur on what a sizable percentage of the public was already thinking. I’m just saying that the speech appeared presidential. In content and demeanor. In my view anyway. Coming from an actual president it would have BEEN presidential. He could have done much worse.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Can someone copy and paste the specific McChrystal quotes from the article that they find odious enough to justify his firing?[/quote]
From the article…
He (the General) prefers Bud Light Lime (his favorite beer) to Bordeaux…
This alone is enough for me to have him relieved. Bud Light Lime? WTF?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Can someone copy and paste the specific McChrystal quotes from the article that they find odious enough to justify his firing?[/quote]
From the article…
He (the General) prefers Bud Light Lime (his favorite beer) to Bordeaux…
This alone is enough for me to have him relieved. Bud Light Lime? WTF?[/quote]
LOL! Pretty good dude LOL!
It’s more the overall package than the precise words that fell directly from the lips of McChrystal himself. His people, over which he had direct command and in whose presence he was much of the time were saying what’s probably been said a million times only here with Rolling Stone Magazine present.
Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[/quote]
A four star General has to be pretty sharp to get there. He would not make so simple an error as this w/o reason, to lose his job over such bullshit.
The General served his country and made some fuck-ups towards the end. I hope he gives himself some time to reflect and don’t fall into the news mill trap. Either side will try to use him for a cause.
Now his staff should think about a new path in the military because they suck as aides.
[quote]four60 wrote:
The General served his country and made some fuck-ups towards the end. I hope he gives himself some time to reflect and don’t fall into the news mill trap. Either side will try to use him for a cause.
Now his staff should think about a new path in the military because they suck as aides.[/quote]
Keep in mind that the problem here is not what was said. From what I’m hearing this stuff goes on all the time and has for the history of this nation. The trouble is the lack of discerning judgment in letting it happen within earshot of a literary bastion of liberalism like Rolling Stone.
We have enlisted and prior service folks here. Are any of them going to say they’re never allowed a punishable utterance in a private conversation? These were what would have been private or at least non public conversations under normal circumstances.
Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[/quote]
A four star General has to be pretty sharp to get there. He would not make so simple an error as this w/o reason, to lose his job over such bullshit.
He’s running against Obama is 2012. He will win.
[/quote]
It also turns out he resigned which lends some credence to the idea that it might have been by design. That’s what Alisa was saying. Maybe? I don’t know how this would go over in a campaign though unless he outright declared that his military conscience compelled him to allow in the case of his opponent what he normally wouldn’t have. I dunno though. That’s getting way ahead of ourselves.
[quote]four60 wrote:
The General served his country and made some fuck-ups towards the end. I hope he gives himself some time to reflect and don’t fall into the news mill trap. Either side will try to use him for a cause.
Now his staff should think about a new path in the military because they suck as aides.[/quote]
Keep in mind that the problem here is not what was said. From what I’m hearing this stuff goes on all the time and has for the history of this nation. The trouble is the lack of discerning judgment in letting it happen within earshot of a literary bastion of liberalism like Rolling Stone.
We have enlisted and prior service folks here. Are any of them going to say they’re never allowed a punishable utterance in a private conversation? These were what would have been private or at least non public conversations under normal circumstances. [/quote]
And having served for 19yrs I can tell you it’s hard to believe that a room full of officers did not stop and think “Hey maybe we should not act an talk like we are at a BBQ or the O-club”.
And for anyone who is wanting him in office, I believe even the General would see this as a bad idea. If you want a republican in office you have better choices.
[quote]four60 wrote:
<<< And having served for 19yrs I can tell you it’s hard to believe that a room full of officers did not stop and think “Hey maybe we should not act an talk like we are at a BBQ or the O-club”.
Bad Judgment. [/quote]
Well, I defer to your authoritative word and that’s the point. Bad judgment. I have no opinion on him for president in 012. You’re saying as a serviceman that this lapse indicates judgment poor enough to exclude him from the whitehouse?
^ No the general is An operations officer thru an thru. His military life has been spent in the field on the ground and in the shit. He should not be out making speaches, His expirence should be passed on.
[quote]four60 wrote:
^ No the general is An operations officer thru an thru. His military life has been spent in the field on the ground and in the shit. He should not be out making speaches, His expirence should be passed on.
[/quote]
Again I defer to your superior position to make this call. However there have been other operations officers that went on to be president. Eisenhower being the most recent.
It was such HORRIBLE judgement I think it was a result of low morale and almost begging to be fired so he doesnt have to preside over the quagmire that is Afghanistan.
Any retired general I have heard interviewed on the news agrees its a fireable offense. How can you have a top general with diminished prestige, compromised ties to the civilian counterparts heading operations?
Also NOT the first time this has happened with McChrystal.
On the plus side I think if anybody is qualified to step in its Gen Patraeus. Assuming his fainting a couple of days ago is not indicative of a serious health problem.