Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
<<< I think I am releasing a bunch of rabbits. Sorry for all that. I will try to keep on topic. Hey look squirrels.[/quote]
Nah, I was talkin to myself. As usual a big long (probably too long) train of thought started flowing and I was just saying that I was resisting the urge to go with it.
As for this deal with Gen. McChrystal. I should clarify. I do think he should very contritely apologize for the public nature of his remarks. He has not only “poisoned” the chain of command, but emboldened the enemy and jeopardized the mission. It’s this crap about how much he respects the President, blah blah blah that drives me nuts. Everybody here who’s buyin that raise yer hand.
Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[/quote]
So than,h e wasn’t simply practicing transparency?
So than,h e wasn’t simply practicing transparency? [/quote]
Of course he wasn’t. If “transparency” like this was important, war-waging powers would be with Congress, not the executive branch. There is a reason this isn’t so.
Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[/quote]
Yep, what the General did is punishable under the UCMJ. And you can bet that if a Major had done the same to his Battalion Commander (a Lieutenant Colonel) that he would have been scuffed up for it.
Regardless of how right the general is about the milquetoast in chief and as much I wish he had not apologized, I do for now wish he had been wiser even more. Also though, for the offices sake, we cannot have the precedent set of the toleration of military personnel publicly disparaging a president. Even this one. [/quote]
Agreed. He can think Obama is the worst C-in-C in history, but he has no right to publicly air his complaints in the way he has. He has poisoned the chain of command, and while he might claim Obama has made strategic mistakes, a four star general backbiting a civilian C-in-C is a far worse strategic mistake.
If it is ok for a four star to complain like this about his superior, is it ok for a major to do the same to a colonel? How about a sergeant to a captain? The chain of command is sacred, and McChrystal has violated it.
If he thinks Obama has made awful decisions, no problem - tell him so. If he gets no satisfaction out of that conversation, resign and take your case to Congress or similar. Do not, however, give the troops under your command a reason to doubt their superiors or the mission.
A shameful, selfish act. Even if he is unhappy with the President, no matter - he answers to the Presidency.
[/quote]
^
Damn you so beat me to this. Well my work is done.
Damn, I gotta say. If I could bring myself to believe anything he just said, this is the most presidential Obama has ever looked. That’s a genuine compliment BTW. He may even get a bump in the polls for a half hour behind this one.
There are some advantages to working in your living room =] Unfortunately for me money is yet to be one of them. Great for following the news though.
Gotta say it looks like McChrystal got a raw deal… but I’m sure he knew at the time that his remarks could cost him his job. Maybe when your “boss” is that important, and when you think the public needs to know your misgivings, then speaking out is worth it.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Gotta say it looks like McChrystal got a raw deal… but I’m sure he knew at the time that his remarks could cost him his job. Maybe when your “boss” is that important, and when you think the public needs to know your misgivings, then speaking out is worth it.[/quote]
Read Thunderbolt’s response to one my earlier post’s. That was right on.
Its sad, but in the military its all the worse. For someone at his level to make a mistake like that. And trust me it was a mistake. If he thought this would be his job I would hope he would have made more of a statement than some digs at the President and allowing his aids make wise cracks.
If your going to put your foot in your mouth MAKE A STATEMENT and Stand by it. If you take an oath then stick to it and if you can’t want to speak your mind. SAY SOMETHING worth saying. Just a sad day for him and the military.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The general has been fired according to FOX breaking news.[/quote]
Gen. Petraeus will replace Gen. McChrystal as commander of forces in Afghanistan.
Mufasa[/quote]
I had that as an edit in my post above. Must’ve saved it wrong. In this case I can think of 20 worse ways off the top of my head that the president could’ve handled this.
I cannot stand this man as is long well established, but he handled this pretty well in my view. Krauthammer’s might’ve been the only better way possible, but was also asking QUITE a bit, even for me.
[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Gotta say it looks like McChrystal got a raw deal… but I’m sure he knew at the time that his remarks could cost him his job. Maybe when your “boss” is that important, and when you think the public needs to know your misgivings, then speaking out is worth it.[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
No matter how it’s sliced and diced…no matter how the general is villanized…and rightfully so in many respects…Commander in Chief Barack Corpse-men Obama does not come out of this looking good.
Like C. Krauthammer said yesterday, this is what you get when you elect a mere professor/community organizer with no military experience to the highest executive office in the land. You get a bumbling fool ideologue who cannot gain respect from the troops that serve under his command.[/quote]
Villanized I truly hope not. While he did a diservice to the oath that he took. The Gen should have been better protected. His Aids failed him and the PA should have put more distance between the reporter and the GEN.
When you are in the Military the same rules do not apply as a civilian. You take an oath and the people below you take an oath. We handle our problems at the lowest level possible and move up the chain. And you let the chain know the issues you have then you take it to the Man himself. You do not step outside.
This is why I know it was a mistake. The Gen has spent most of his life in the field Ops. He was not someone that should have been making statements to reporters. He was good at many things this was not one of them.
Oliver North was a great example of following orders and falling on the sword after without laying blame while in uniform. Not what one hopes happens to soldiers but its what happens.
I’ve been an aide, not in that heavy of a capacity, but I’ve been on teams where I worked very closely with someone of pretty big importance.
When people with pad and paper and tape recorders are hanging around the stance has to be “You’re not here for me, you’re here for my boss, so fuck you I’m not telling you shit, what I think and what I say matters none.”
I’m dissapointed today. All the way around. Preventable, avoidable. But who knows… Patraeus is the best if not only choice for this spot.