McCain/Obama Debate II: 10/07/08

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
borrek wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:

You do realize that our close ties with Israel is what helps to mobilize Jihadists against the US, right?

Yeah right. As much as I hate to say it, George Bush is right in that they hate our way of life and will come up with any reason to hate us. Were Iran to nuke Israel off the planet do you think that all of the sudden the middle east would want to be our buddies?

Wow. People still think like this?

Yea, that’s it… they hate us cause we’re free. That’s the stupidist fucking logic in the entire goddamn world.

As much as I agree that Israel really can’t put troops in any Arab country without starting a shitstorm, let’s all agree that Muslims don’t want us to die because we’re “free”.[/quote]

It is our way of life. It is our wealth. It is our liberal society. We break just about every rule of islamic law, and we do it with flare.

Then explain why we are the “Great Satan”. Explain why they attacked the same building twice in less than 10 years.

I don’t think anyone is really wrapping themselves in the flag by saying they hate our freedoms, but there is no other logical reason they hate us.

102

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Both want Buffet for Sec of Treasury.

Do these guys not know how old Buffet is?

Five years more than McCain.

What’s your point?[/quote]

fuck off, baby raper.

103

[quote]rainjack wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
borrek wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:

You do realize that our close ties with Israel is what helps to mobilize Jihadists against the US, right?

Yeah right. As much as I hate to say it, George Bush is right in that they hate our way of life and will come up with any reason to hate us. Were Iran to nuke Israel off the planet do you think that all of the sudden the middle east would want to be our buddies?

Wow. People still think like this?

Yea, that’s it… they hate us cause we’re free. That’s the stupidist fucking logic in the entire goddamn world.

As much as I agree that Israel really can’t put troops in any Arab country without starting a shitstorm, let’s all agree that Muslims don’t want us to die because we’re “free”.

It is our way of life. It is our wealth. It is our liberal society. We break just about every rule of islamic law, and we do it with flare.

Then explain why we are the “Great Satan”. Explain why they attacked the same building twice in less than 10 years.

I don’t think anyone is really wrapping themselves in the flag by saying they hate our freedoms, but there is no other logical reason they hate us.

[/quote]

Well, they do hate our way life. It’s anathema to the way of life they advocate, and they see us as culturally imperialistic.

But they also hate our involvement in the Middle East. And they hate our close relationship with Israel. This is pretty clear. Not that I’m saying we should abandon it for this reason. Not by any means.

104

Many of the jihadists studied here in the States; then they had to return to their countries and live under their failed states and economies.

And, finding themselves unemployed, they easily fall prey to fanatics who whisper in their ears that it’s the great Satan America that’s keeping down their culture and nation.

They admire the States for the very reasons that they also resent it.

105

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Well, they do hate our way life. It’s anathema to the way of life they advocate, and they see us as culturally imperialistic.

But they also hate our involvement in the Middle East. And they hate our close relationship with Israel. This is pretty clear. Not that I’m saying we should abandon it for this reason. Not by any means.[/quote]

Our involvement in the middle east is directly related to our way of life. If they didn’t have oil, we wouldn’t be over there in the capacity we are. No one in the world would give a shit about them, or their jihads.

Our relationship with Israel is not the reason for their hatred. The should be on their knees thanking us for keeping Israel leashed up and muzzled.

Can you imagine the carnage of the muslims if we let Israel go and take care of the Middle East? The holocaust would be a minor fender bender compared to what an unleashed Israel would do to those rock throwing little fucks.

106

Interesting point, RJ.

A few guys have given me shit on this Board, because of my confusion with this election. Their feeling was that the distinctions between the candidates and their positions were “clear”.

Right.

I’m a fiscal conservative who feels that there is definitely a place for responsible and directed social programs. I was counting on McCain to come through on getting the U.S.'s “fiscal house in order” as a priority; and he seemed to indicate that. (Freeze, cut programs, etc.)

Then a 300-400 BILLION dollar mortgage buyout? (Lastest estimates) on top of this latest fiasco he and Obama voted for?

Yea. Everything is REALLY clear now.

Mufasa

107

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Well, they do hate our way life. It’s anathema to the way of life they advocate, and they see us as culturally imperialistic.

But they also hate our involvement in the Middle East. And they hate our close relationship with Israel. This is pretty clear. Not that I’m saying we should abandon it for this reason. Not by any means.

Our involvement in the middle east is directly related to our way of life. If they didn’t have oil, we wouldn’t be over there in the capacity we are. No one in the world would give a shit about them, or their jihads.

Our relationship with Israel is not the reason for their hatred. The should be on their knees thanking us for keeping Israel leashed up and muzzled.

Can you imagine the carnage of the muslims if we let Israel go and take care of the Middle East? The holocaust would be a minor fender bender compared to what an unleashed Israel would do to those rock throwing little fucks.

[/quote]

I suppose you could say us being over there is tantamount to our wave of life. I wasn’t really thinking of it as the same thing. I was thinking more culturally. But if you look at it like that, I agree.

They do hate that we fund and aid Israel. It’s true that there would probably be more ground warfare if we weren’t ‘restraining’ Israel and swifter and harsher responses to terrorist attacks. But it’s Israel’s own desire to avoid all-out war and destruction that prevent it from going on a campaign of all-out annihilation. I would not expect it to do so even if we had no relationship with Israel.

108


I almost forgot!

They BOTH missed a Golden Opportunity to tell many U.S. citizens its time to sacrifice a little (REAL sacrifice) and buck up a little.

It’s the question from the lady on-line whom had lived through WW-II and the sacrifices that Americans had to make then.

Neither Obama nor McCain indicated that any American had to make any sacrifice (except acknowledging those made by the military and their families).

I thought it was a GOLDEN time to let Americans know that we can’t have it all, and have it all, all the time.

They both missed an opportunity.

Mufasa

109

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

I’m a fiscal conservative who feels that there is definitely a place for responsible and directed social programs. I was counting on McCain to come through on getting the U.S.'s “fiscal house in order” as a priority; and he seemed to indicate that. (Freeze, cut programs, etc.)[/quote]

I feel the same way and that McCain has failed in this regard. Plus, I see merits to some of Obama’s programs and am not particularly bothered by his tax plan. That is, if he enacts it the way he is promising.

110

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I almost forgot!

They BOTH missed a Golden Opportunity to tell many U.S. citizens its time to sacrifice a little (REAL sacrifice) and buck up a little.

It’s the question from the lady on-line whom had lived through WW-II and the sacrifices that Americans had to make then.

Neither Obama nor McCain indicated that any American had to make any sacrifice (except acknowledging those made by the military and their families).

I thought it was a GOLDEN time to let Americans know that we can’t have it all, and have it all, all the time.

They both missed an opportunity.

Mufasa[/quote]

How exactly did you interpret this bit in Obama’s answer?

[i]You know, a lot of you remember the tragedy of 9/11 and where you were on that day and, you know, how all of the country was ready to come together and make enormous changes to make us not only safer, but to make us a better country and a more unified country.

And President Bush did some smart things at the outset, but one of the opportunities that was missed was, when he spoke to the American people, he said, “Go out and shop.”

That wasn’t the kind of call to service that I think the American people were looking for.[/i]

111

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Well, they do hate our way life. It’s anathema to the way of life they advocate, and they see us as culturally imperialistic.

But they also hate our involvement in the Middle East. And they hate our close relationship with Israel. This is pretty clear. Not that I’m saying we should abandon it for this reason. Not by any means.

Our involvement in the middle east is directly related to our way of life. If they didn’t have oil, we wouldn’t be over there in the capacity we are. No one in the world would give a shit about them, or their jihads.

Our relationship with Israel is not the reason for their hatred. The should be on their knees thanking us for keeping Israel leashed up and muzzled.

Can you imagine the carnage of the muslims if we let Israel go and take care of the Middle East? The holocaust would be a minor fender bender compared to what an unleashed Israel would do to those rock throwing little fucks.
[/quote]

It was either McCain, Obama (or Pickens!) who said it:

Energy independence is a NATIONAL SECURITY issue.

Too often oil is driving our Foreign Policy decisions.

However, oil or no oil. Support of Israel has been, and will continue to be, a part of our foreign policy that is non-negotiable and independent of what party either holds the White House or holds the majority in Congress.

Mufasa

112

[quote]lixy wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I almost forgot!

They BOTH missed a Golden Opportunity to tell many U.S. citizens its time to sacrifice a little (REAL sacrifice) and buck up a little.

It’s the question from the lady on-line whom had lived through WW-II and the sacrifices that Americans had to make then.

Neither Obama nor McCain indicated that any American had to make any sacrifice (except acknowledging those made by the military and their families).

I thought it was a GOLDEN time to let Americans know that we can’t have it all, and have it all, all the time.

They both missed an opportunity.

Mufasa

How exactly did you interpret this bit in Obama’s answer?

[i]You know, a lot of you remember the tragedy of 9/11 and where you were on that day and, you know, how all of the country was ready to come together and make enormous changes to make us not only safer, but to make us a better country and a more unified country.

And President Bush did some smart things at the outset, but one of the opportunities that was missed was, when he spoke to the American people, he said, “Go out and shop.”

That wasn’t the kind of call to service that I think the American people were looking for.[/i][/quote]

Lix:

I’m still scratching my head on that one, with on caveat; HE DID NOT TELL AMERICANS THAT THEY HAVE TO SACRIFICE A LITTLE!

A “Bush did…” answer was no answer to me.

Mufasa

113

[quote]lixy wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I almost forgot!

They BOTH missed a Golden Opportunity to tell many U.S. citizens its time to sacrifice a little (REAL sacrifice) and buck up a little.

It’s the question from the lady on-line whom had lived through WW-II and the sacrifices that Americans had to make then.

Neither Obama nor McCain indicated that any American had to make any sacrifice (except acknowledging those made by the military and their families).

I thought it was a GOLDEN time to let Americans know that we can’t have it all, and have it all, all the time.

They both missed an opportunity.

Mufasa

How exactly did you interpret this bit in Obama’s answer?

[i]You know, a lot of you remember the tragedy of 9/11 and where you were on that day and, you know, how all of the country was ready to come together and make enormous changes to make us not only safer, but to make us a better country and a more unified country.

And President Bush did some smart things at the outset, but one of the opportunities that was missed was, when he spoke to the American people, he said, “Go out and shop.”

That wasn’t the kind of call to service that I think the American people were looking for.[/i][/quote]

Were you house broke in 2001?

Bush’s statement was to inspire us to carry on our everyday lives. To get back to normal.

To read anything more into it is utter stupidity.

114

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Mufasa wrote:

I’m a fiscal conservative who feels that there is definitely a place for responsible and directed social programs. I was counting on McCain to come through on getting the U.S.'s “fiscal house in order” as a priority; and he seemed to indicate that. (Freeze, cut programs, etc.)

I feel the same way and that McCain has failed in this regard. Plus, I see merits to some of Obama’s programs and am not particularly bothered by his tax plan. That is, if he enacts it the way he is promising.[/quote]

No fiscal conservative would even consider voting for a man who believes healthcare is a right.

115

…But they WOULD vote for somebody suggesting a 3-4 Billion Dollar governmental purchase of bad mortgages?

Help me out here.

Mufasa

116

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Interesting point, RJ.

A few guys have given me shit on this Board, because of my confusion with this election. Their feeling was that the distinctions between the candidates and their positions were “clear”.

Right.

I’m a fiscal conservative who feels that there is definitely a place for responsible and directed social programs. I was counting on McCain to come through on getting the U.S.'s “fiscal house in order” as a priority; and he seemed to indicate that. (Freeze, cut programs, etc.)

Then a 300-400 BILLION dollar mortgage buyout? (Lastest estimates) on top of this latest fiasco he and Obama voted for?

Yea. Everything is REALLY clear now.

Mufasa[/quote]

I’m hearing this morning that it would be paid for somehow out of the bailout deal.

117

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Interesting point, RJ.

A few guys have given me shit on this Board, because of my confusion with this election. Their feeling was that the distinctions between the candidates and their positions were “clear”.

Right.

I’m a fiscal conservative who feels that there is definitely a place for responsible and directed social programs. I was counting on McCain to come through on getting the U.S.'s “fiscal house in order” as a priority; and he seemed to indicate that. (Freeze, cut programs, etc.)

Then a 300-400 BILLION dollar mortgage buyout? (Lastest estimates) on top of this latest fiasco he and Obama voted for?

Yea. Everything is REALLY clear now.

Mufasa

I’m hearing this morning that it would be paid for somehow out of the bailout deal.[/quote]

That’s comforting to know!

NOT!

118

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
…But they WOULD vote for somebody suggesting a 3-4 Billion Dollar governmental purchase of bad mortgages?

Help me out here.

Mufasa[/quote]

No, they wouldn’t. They’ll vote third party or stay home. What they won’t do is consider Obama an alternative.

The idea of health care as a right, though? Meaning, something that government HAS to enforce. After all, the US government’s purpose (supposedly) is to secure our rights, correct? Why not just vote for Hugo Chavez?

119

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…But they WOULD vote for somebody suggesting a 3-4 Billion Dollar governmental purchase of bad mortgages?

Help me out here.

Mufasa

No, they wouldn’t. They’ll vote third party or stay home. What they won’t do is consider Obama an alternative.

The idea of health care as a right, though? Meaning, something that government HAS to enforce. After all, the US government’s purpose (supposedly) is to secure our rights, correct? Why not just vote for Hugo Chavez?[/quote]

What is your list of rights? And your list of privileges? Do you believe there are any rights other than those enumerated in the constitution? Apparently, you believe the government should never be involved in anything beyond securing what you deem a right.

120

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
…But they WOULD vote for somebody suggesting a 3-4 Billion Dollar governmental purchase of bad mortgages?

Help me out here.

Mufasa

No, they wouldn’t. They’ll vote third party or stay home. What they won’t do is consider Obama an alternative.

The idea of health care as a right, though? Meaning, something that government HAS to enforce. After all, the US government’s purpose (supposedly) is to secure our rights, correct? Why not just vote for Hugo Chavez?

What is your list of rights? And your list of privileges? Do you believe there are any rights other than those enumerated in the constitution? Apparently, you believe the government should never be involved in anything beyond securing what you deem a right. [/quote]

Rights should not include anything that would require someone to be forced to provide. A “right” to healthcare presumes that a healthcare provided can be forced, by the governement, to provide health care

Or waht about a “right” to a job. How would that work?