On the topic of building more gender neutral restrooms, Chushin’s comment about costs, and my idea of how there should be twice as many women’s rooms at a Lakers game.
It may be tangential, but here is me take- people love these Facebook super-causes, as long as they are only peripherally or completely unaffected by them. It gives them all of the emotional fulfillment and sense of belonging that they crave without the obligation or difficulty of actually being afflicted with or directly affected by some of the more interesting parts of life.
At least that’s what I told myself a while back when I decided “fuck all of this social media bullshit.”.
The word games continue. I for one think both terms (vituperative and condemnation) are fair and accurate descriptors of the views you have expressed on this thread regarding transgendered individuals, and that it is beyond ludicrous of you to deny it. But as I know how tiresome these side-threads are for anyone following the main topic, I will let go of my end of this one.
This isn’t inflammatory language?
I honestly think you’d be much more uncomfortable with someone who wore a dress and makeup next to you at the urinal than with some smallish dude walking past to use the stall to pee. And I think the guy in the dress would be in real danger of attack in that men’s room.
I and any six-year-old girls are at far less risk from that ultra-feminine penis-haver than she is from a couple of rowdy young men.
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I’ve gotten a pop-up that tells me I should consider posting in other topics a couple of times, so I’m leery of monopolizing the conversation. : /
I also try to encompass all points in my posts, so when I post I typically assume it’s a part of the general conversation as well as a response to a specific, quoted question. So my last post (TG in more danger in men’s restrooms dressed as female) would, to me, seem to address that.
Edited to remove giant emoticon.
Edited again to say that I also think I’ve covered discomfort in other posts along and along.
How about just changing the language and separating the bathrooms by anatomy, rather than gender? You can even change the symbols. A rocket shaped symbol and a downward pointing triangle. Problem solved. As someone stated earlier, gays use the bathroom with the penises, and it isn’t a huge issue. I don’t have any problem with gays using the bathroom with me or my kids, either, as a matter of fact.
Regardless of how you feel about yourself, until you are ready to change your plumbing, how about TGs compromise and continue to use the bathroom that matches your it? Is that so much to ask? How come it is always the other 99% of us who have to compromise?
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Because they are dressed as, and look like, the other gender. I don’t think it’s a big deal for the FTM because it’s not unusual to see boyish women and women are rarely aggressive, but again, the MTF are probably frightened, and rightly so. This is not different from the rape prevention debate - there IS danger for this subset of people (mtf) - harm prevention should be the priority, just as women should be alert to the dangers of getting drunk wearing provocative clothing and then walking out of a bar into a dark, remote parking lot alone.
It’s really not about feelings or discomfort.
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But it’s not a one way street. The point that keeps getting missed here has nothing to do with the fear of genuine TG people, transitioning or not. It is the door that this opens to abuse and danger to women, and especially girls, from creeps, and there are plenty out there, who will take advantage of the impossibility of prosecution, who will become emboldened by their immunity, and who will pose more of a testosterone fueled danger to them than some racist redneck neo-nazi boogey man does to a TG male who still possesses a penis. Seriously.
These attacks against TG folks do happen. I understand that. But so do attacks against women and girls. Call me old fashioned, but I still think it’s important to protect the women and children first. But, then, that distinction is being pretty quickly obliterated.
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Thats correct. It is a safety issue. I have’nt chimed in here for a while, but as the only MTF person on this forum I thought i would give my 2 cents.
Thankkfully (or not) I am 6’1" and 200#. So as a male in a dress, if other males are uncomfortable with me in the bathroom, it seems to be much more of an issue than
when i use the womens room.
Luckily, I also live in more liberal California, NOT the segregated South !
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I think this represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. TG protection laws in no way provide ‘immunity’ to individuals who engage in inappropriate behavior. Such behaviors are against the law now, and will remain so if/when TG protection laws are passed.
So is assault against TG individuals. So what was ever the problem?
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And if the issue of safety boils down to that one, that there are laws on the books, so don’t worry, citizen, then fine. So what does that leave? The issue of uncomfortability, which in this case can reliably be said to be weighted in the favor of people who personally do not want or do not want their daughters, at the very least, to be exposed to male genitals in a public bathroom. So, again, why must the 99% now compromise in submission to the demands of an incredibly tiny minority?
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As KillerDirk pointed out, one important problem is the safety issue. MTF TG persons are significantly more likely to be assaulted in a Men’s restroom than they are in a Women’s restroom.
I just addressed that. Specifically. Look up. Women get assaulted by men far more often than TGs are assaulted for hiking up their skirts to pee at a urinal. Again, why are TGs favored?
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I am no expert on the design of Women’s restrooms, but given their presumptive lack of urinals, and the fact that the stalls have doors, there seems to me little chance that other customers are at risk of seeing a TG woman’s penis. In fact, if you wanted to stipulate that walking out of the stall with one’s penis exposed is prima facie evidence of an attempt to sexually harass other patrons (read: that the person in question is not a TG female, but in fact a male pervert in drag), I wouldn’t argue with you.
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That is not the correct way to frame the issue. The correct framing is, do women get assaulted by men in drag in a Women’s restroom more frequently than TG women are assaulted by men in a Men’s restroom?
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Genderfluid / Transgender and Men in general are Assualted much more frequently while using the mens room then using the female room.
In most cases, if a female patron complains about the “guy in a dress” in the restroom, management will usually approach the “male” patron for clarification of the what, why and wherefore’s of said person using that restroom.
I have been in this situation more than once, and have explained the situation. Most people get “uneasy” because it messes with their concept of reality.
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