Exactly.
I didn’t mean to bash Jim or the system. It was more setting out how I feel about it now that I’m a little wiser. It’s still a good option - just in fewer cases than I thought initially.
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I hope Jim doesen’t read logs in here 
The resting too long, can I ask you how long is to long?
I tend to as @Frank_C rest about 60 seconds, the last year I found that resting 2 minutes on my main 5/3/1 sets (that is for me 4 working sets) works better. Then back to about 60 seconds in the assistance/supplemental section.
If you don’t have to much insight in training, I think 5/3/1 is a very good approach.
I even think when it comes to the part of using lighter weights Jim agrees with you. The OG had a 90% TM an had you going til you couldn’t do the prescribed weights.
Now he says use about 85% OR a 5 rep max as your TM, saying if you can’t get at least 5 strong reps on the last week, your TM is wrong. Then some volume with FSL.
He don’t care to much about assistance, that would be up to the trainee him self.
Jim says 50 - 100 reps of push/pull/single leg or core each workout.
I have done some Thib’s stuff to, and some of it was very good, but perhaps not as long focused as 5/3/1.
To end my rambling: I’ve done 5/3/1 for a year now treating each lift the same. For squats and DL it has been good, not for bench and press. So I’m up to change that a bit (do not tell Jim).
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This has exactly been my go to for a long long time. I didn’t think of assistance stuff as something important. Changing this seems to pay off lately.
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@mortdk you’re right in all those aspects.
With rest breaks, I don’t really time them. I just realised through making myself take less time during the mass phase that I was taking too much time between sets. Turns out I don’t need four or more minutes between even quite heavy sets: two or maybe three minutes (at most) is fine.
That’s the key. It is a really, really good system if you don’t have that insight.
Out of interest Mark have you read the new book?
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No, it isn’t available as an eBook as far as I’m aware. I hear many good things about it, but from what I’ve heard said and seen written it’s more of a collection of programs for different purposes and far more focused on developing overall athleticism than I’m interested in.
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Yes that was my impression also. It was also a bit exy to by printed and pay shipping too.
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I’m here to learn a thing or two.
I’ll stick to about two minutes on my main sets, and about a minute on assistance. Would you rush that even more?
I am terrible at going by feels
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It’s a good program for strength but I think it’s only one part I’d a program. Outside of the big four it’s lacking (for me).
I posted somewhere in the forum that I once learned that 3 x 10 with 60 seconds of rest was the best way to stimulate natural testosterone production. That was at an NSCA conference over 10 years ago. That rep scheme has always been the traditional hypertrophy scheme as well.
These days I don’t stick with the 3 x 10 scheme much but I still follow the rest protocol until my goal is strength or performance. If that’s the case then I wait 2 or 3 minutes (or even 5 if I’m maxing out).
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Woke at 207.5 lbs but looking the same as yesterday. Go figure.
@mortdk I think that sounds good. You can always try cutting rest shorter for some assistance work just to see how it feels too.
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Some really good thoughts in this post, thanks for sharing.
I’ve been training lately in basically a constant state of fatigue. All of my workouts include giant or supersets and minimal rest (10-60 seconds). An example of recent squat days looks like: squat-pullups-squat-ab wheel-squat-KB press-repeat. I’m actually getting a good amount of rest between each assistance movement but something like 10-30 between each exercise. Coincidentally I started doing this with 5/3/1 programming and it’s worked out nicely.
I workout with my roommate occasionally and by the time I’m wrapping up my entire session he’s just moving on from the first lift. I usually knock out another set and 2 assistance movements during his rest. Not and indictment on him, but he could push harder.
I agree with your take on treating all the lifts the same and regarding assistance as an afterthought. I know for me just squatting a lot will improve that lift, but I should throw a lot of stuff at the press to get it to move. I often wonder how my assistance choices are working as well, I like doing pushups and how they feel, but would tricep extensions be more effective? Hard to say.
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Edit: what he said
You can also adjust the structure of your workouts to shorten rest periods.
Instead of 3 sets of Assistance Move 1 and then 3 sets of Assistance Move 2, you could pair them up.
Assistance Move 1/Super Short Rest/Assistance Lift 2/Super Short Rest
-repeat 3 times
Or Giant Sets or Circuits with 1 set of 3-4 assistance lifts in a series, with short rest or no rest. Then repeat the circuit 3-4 times.
Standing around is cut way, way down and you still get to rest and recover before you repeat an exercise.
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Yes, this. I do this and rest 30 sec between exercises totaling my 1 minute but literally cutting my overall rest in half. And the involved muscles actually get more rest.
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Today’s training
45 degree back raises and GHR sit-ups for a bunch each
Deadlift, stiff bar
5xplate
5x2 plates
3x3 plates
All beltless double overhand to here
1x4 plates, hook grip
4x1x445 lbs, under 6 RPE and hook for the first two, 6 RPE and mixed grip left under then under 6 RPE mixed grip right under
2x445 lbs, under 6 RPE, straps
Work sets took eight minutes - @mortdk this is kind of what I was talking about. Six months ago I wouldn’t have even considered taking breaks like that unless I was doing clusters. I also did NOT time my rests at all. I just looked at the clock immediately before I started and as soon as I finished.
This would be close to or the best 440 lbs has moved. No getting pulled forward, didn’t feel particularly heavy.
Deadlift with toes elevated on 11 lbs plates
4x5x308 lbs, straps and beltless
Pull to the knee
12x308 lbs, straps and beltless
I’m pretty confident to say I’ve reached the point where a three plate pull is very easy at any given time.
Back extensions
30 and 20 with 44 lbs on a 45 degree back raise
DB rows
4x20x80 lbs - these SUCKED
All up done in an hour and 25 minutes including looking for bands to do the SuperD lower back stuff and ending up using safety straps and then finding the heavy bands once I was done.
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Fuck it, figured I’d post the double.
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That is fast paced lifting, it’s almost EMOM set.
That double was moving fast, looking smooth.
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Thanks. Also, that’s what I’m clumsily getting at: for me it wasn’t fast paced per se, it was just brisk. I wasn’t watching the clock to be on time, I was just waiting until I felt good to go - because over the last three to four months I’ve pushed myself to take shorter and shorter breaks I’m now used to them.
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I get you. I’ll try to shorten my breaks a bit. I’ve done some supersetting or what it’s called. Like Squat, rest, dip, rest squat and so on. And some circles for assistance with 2-4 exercises done one after another. To cut time. I’m usually lifting in between 45 - 60 minutes. Not counting warmup.
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Very Smooth dome, err Pull. Very Smooth pull!
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Woke at 208.8 lbs, looking a bit soft and watery but not bloated. Kind of confused, but I’m guessing I’ve had more salt the last couple of days than I thought. Nothing major.
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