Marine, Order To Execute Kids

Marine tells of order to execute Haditha women and children

by Rob Woollard
Fri Aug 31, 8:42 AM ET

[i]CAMP PENDLETON, United States (AFP) - A US Marine was ordered to execute a room full of terrified Iraqi women and children during an alleged massacre in Haditha that left 24 people dead, a military court heard Thursday.

The testimony came in the opening of a preliminary hearing for Marine Sergeant Frank Wuterich, who faces 17 counts of murder over the Haditha killings, the most serious war crimes allegations faced by US troops in Iraq.

Wuterich, dressed in desert khakis, spoke confidently to confirm his name as the hearing to decide if he faces a court martial began at the Marines’ Camp Pendleton base in southern California.

The 27-year-old listened intently as Lance Corporal Humberto Mendoza recounted how Marines had responded after a roadside bomb attack on their convoy in Haditha on November 19, 2005 left one comrade dead.

Mendoza said Marines under Wuterich’s command began clearing nearby houses suspected of containing insurgents responsible for the bombing.

At one house Wuterich gave an order to shoot on sight as Marines waited for a response after knocking on the door, said Mendoza.

“He said ‘Just wait till they open the door, then shoot,’” Mendoza said. Mendoza then said he himself shot and killed an adult male who appeared in a doorway.

During a subsequent search of the house, Mendoza said he received an order from another Marine, Lance Corporal Stephen Tatum, to shoot seven women and children he had found in a rear bedroom.

“When I opened the door there was just women and kids, two adults were lying down on the bed and there were three children on the bed … two more were behind the bed,” Mendoza said.

“I looked at them for a few seconds. Just enough to know they were not presenting a threat … they looked scared.”

After leaving the room Mendoza told Tatum what he had found.

“I told him there were women and kids inside there. He said ‘Well, shoot them,’” Mendoza told prosecutor Lieutenant Colonel Sean Sullivan.

“And what did you say to him?” Sullivan asked.

“I said ‘But they’re just women and children.’ He didn’t say nothing.”

Mendoza said he returned to a position at the front of the house and heard a door open behind him followed by a loud noise. Returning later that afternoon to retrieve bodies, Mendoza said he found a room full of corpses.

In cross-examination, however, Major Haytham Faraj suggested a girl who survived the shootings had identified Mendoza as the gunman, sparking an angry reaction from prosecutors.

“The girl in question already identified another Marine,” Sullivan stormed. “This is completely unethical, inappropriate and has no basis in fact.”

Mendoza had given similar testimony during a preliminary hearing against Tatum earlier this year.

Investigating officer Lieutenant Colonel Paul Ware, who is presiding in Wuterich’s hearing, last week recommended dropping murder charges against Tatum, describing Mendoza’s evidence as “too weak.”

Later in cross-examination Mendoza praised Wuterich’s leadership. “I think he’s a great Marine, sir,” he said.

Prosecutors allege Marines went on a killing spree in Haditha in retaliation for the death of their colleague in the bomb attack.

Defense lawyers will argue that Wuterich followed established combat zone rules of engagement.

A total of eight Marines were initially charged in connection with the Haditha deaths.

Four were charged with murder while four senior officers were accused of failing to properly investigate the killings.

Of the four Marines charged with murder, two have since had charges withdrawn, while allegations against Tatum are also expected to be dismissed.

Wuterich also faces charges of making a false statement and asking another Marine to do the same. He faces a life sentence and dishonorable discharge if court-martialed.[/i]

The part that’s killing me here is the paragraph that says: “Defense lawyers will argue that Wuterich followed established combat zone rules of engagement”. What kind of BS is that?

Weird, I tried to search for this story through google news, so I could get real news, (and even that can be iffy,) and I found a story by the same author, similar, but different. No mention of women and children.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22344065-5005961,00.html

What is the source for your version?

Anyway the guy is in court, so obviously our government doesn’t approve. Also it should be pointed out that military law specifically states that any member of the military is not only allowed to not follow any order that violates the military law, but are specifically not to follow it.

A better explanation follows. It also explains why Lixy posted it and his role in spreading information thru sport websites that are not moderated.

What kind of BS is that?

The Lie Mutually Agreed Upon
July 16, 2007: Yet another Marine has won a court victory in the investigation of the battle at Haditha â¿¿ adding more doubts to the claims of a massacre. In this case, the officer conducting an Article 32 hearing (equivalent to a grand jury hearing in civilian courts) has ruled that charges should be dropped. In essence, the claims of a massacre at Haditha are now looking false. That said, al Qaeda, through some adept media manipulation, has still won a victory.

It all began in 2005, when the ambush of Marines led to a battle in which eight terrorists and a number of civilians were killed. That said, the aftermath of the incident was mishandled, giving a reporter and a human-rights group enough room to make claims of a massacre. The initial Haditha investigations uncovered some apparent discrepancies in the Marines’ stories, and a criminal investigation by NCIS was launched. NCIS filed criminal charges, and internal investigations showed that officers failed to ask the right questions. It was, in essence, a more refined version of the Palestinian claims after the battle of Jenin in 2002, in which 52 people, a majority of them combatants, were killed.

Al Qaeda faced the same problem that the Palestinian terrorists at Jenin faced in 2002. They have been unable to win in a straight fight with troops that are highly trained and motivated â¿¿ and American and Israeli troops tend to be among the best in the world on a soldier-for-soldier basis. The terrorists needed to try a different approach. What they came up with was media manipulation, where lies and deceptions would make the Americans (or Israelis, as the case could be) look bad while winning. Sometimes, this involves exacting a high price on the attacking force in terms of casualties, but this is difficult. More often, it involves creating the impression that the American or Israeli troops are indiscriminate killers who routinely slaughter civilians. This would boost both recruiting (to avenge a massacre by the Americans/Israelis) and it would also get media play, undercutting the American war effort (by giving opponents of the global war on terror ammunition).

In the case of Haditha, the terrorists’ media strategy worked and caused a lot of problems. An anti-war congressman claimed that a cover-up of cold-blooded murder by the Marines occurred. There was a controversy that has gone on for a number of months. And al Qaeda will come away with articles about massacres that never happened. It is a partial media victory for the terrorists â¿¿ mostly because the lies have been somewhat unraveled, but the truth will not get the same airplay as the false claims.

That said, a partial victory is still a victory, and it will have a price that is yet to be determined. The new recruits will give them a larger talent pool â¿¿ and that means they may find terrorists who can infiltrate into the West and carry out attacks like those of 9/11 and the London attacks of 2005. The ammo given to the anti-war movement will make it harder to sustain military operations against terrorists â¿¿ and the investigations will have ripple effects around the military. As a result, Al-Qaeda may have more secure safe havens in the future.

All is not lost for the U.S. military. On the one hand, future claims of massacres and cover-ups will be somewhat harder to believe, since the military can point to its investigations of Haditha. The other benefit will be the lessons learned from this controversy â¿¿ the military will apply them in the future, making it harder for terrorists and other opponents to succeed in the media after future battles. â¿¿ Harold C. Hutchinson Strategypage.com

Score another one for the Infidel’s huh Lixy.

Keep trying.

This type of propaganda was widely used during the recent Israeli incursion as well. Every time Israel attacked a stronghold, which happened to be in a civilian home or neighborhood, the news would focus on civilian deaths and cast the blame at Israel.

It’s time for the public in the Middle East to recognize the propaganda for what it is. A method to make them angry and waste their lives fighting a type of tyranny that does not even exist.

Rage against the machine Lixy.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Weird, I tried to search for this story through google news, so I could get real news, (and even that can be iffy,) and I found a story by the same author, similar, but different. No mention of women and children.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22344065-5005961,00.html[/quote]

Are you really surprised that the “Murdoch lens” distorts stories?

???

The source was mentioned at the very beginning of the article. Anyway, that’s no excuse for not posting the link.

http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/070831020421.p11gs7ev.html

My bad.

I didn’t know that. I’ll appreciate it if you could point out to the exact article you have in mind.

But that’s tangential to the point which was about the scumbag lawyers arguing that Wuterich was following combat zone rules of engagement. That’s the outrageous part.

[quote]The Mage wrote:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22344065-5005961,00.html

What is the source for your version?

[/quote]

www.talibantimes.com (j/k Lixy) :slight_smile:

[quote]lixy wrote:

But that’s tangential to the point which was about the scumbag lawyers arguing that Wuterich was following combat zone rules of engagement. That’s the outrageous part.[/quote]

You’re actually surprised lawyers are scumbags?

[quote]The Mage wrote:
You’re actually surprised lawyers are scumbags? [/quote]

Surprised? not so much.

Outraged? Definitely!

Peddle your lies elsewhere lixy.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Peddle your lies elsewhere lixy. [/quote]

Explain. Where do you see a false statement?

its not a lie if you believe what you’re saying

Breaking news, suicide bomber kills kids, women and men. Where is that story Lixy? I need a source too.

if people posted whenever there’s asuicide bombing there would be a new thread every hour or so…i’m sure lixy is well aware of the horrors of such killings as are we all. And i’m sure that he condemns them like all of us, it goes without saying that terrorists are bad. WHy don’t you post stories of suicide bombings then? its not that hard, jsut go to the main page of the bbc and there’s bound to be a few stories there.

[quote]jre67t wrote:
Breaking news, suicide bomber kills kids, women and men. Where is that story Lixy? I need a source too.[/quote]

We have been over this like a million times. Suicide bombers are criminals. They are not elected by anyone, and do not operate in the name of a people (except some faction in the Occupied Territories).

Because of that, I see no value in posting those stories around here. The majority of people around these forums are Americans, and like it or not, atrocities like Mahmoudiyah, Haditha, or Abu Ghraib are commited by people wearing the flag of the USA. They operate in the name of the American people and are financed by US tax-payer money.

And should I remind you that there were no suicide bombers in Iraq prior to the US invasion?

I would say that the suicide bombers operate in the name of a portion of the muslims around the world. Maybe not all of the muslims, but surely some of them.

They operate in the name of their brand of fundamental Islam.

[quote]esloco wrote:
if people posted whenever there’s asuicide bombing there would be a new thread every hour or so[/quote]

Which is why we should stay in Iraq, even though there were no suicide bombers before the war, they are obviously there now. These are the people we are fighting against.

Is it better to let people with suicide bombing mindsets, the fundamental wack jobs win? Or a democratically elected pro-us government who lets us keep a base there?

Which is more evil? Which would you chose to live under?

That is the bottom line.

[quote]jre67t wrote:
Breaking news, suicide bomber kills kids, women and men. Where is that story Lixy? I need a source too.[/quote]

I can get you that story, shall I start a thread for every occasion that so holy, pius individual kills people in the name of Allah? I sure can do it, but I’ll be starting about a hundred threads a week.

I’m a former marine and Sgt Wuterich is a few years older from my town, so I see this in the local paper every day. I’ve also given money towards his lawyer fees. Anyways, he’s no murderer, he was trying to bring his men home alive.

[quote]superthrustjon wrote:
I’m a former marine and Sgt Wuterich is a few years older from my town, so I see this in the local paper every day. I’ve also given money towards his lawyer fees. Anyways, he’s no murderer, he was trying to bring his men home alive.[/quote]

A-ha! We have a winner.

This is a very important perspective you’re presenting here. Thanks for sharing this gem.

Now, tell me, were his men on their way home when a horde of unarmed women and children assaulted them?

Here’s a list of the murdered ones.

[i]House #1 – 7 killed, 2 injured (but survived), 2 escaped

  1. Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali, 76 – grandfather, father and husband. Died with nine rounds in the chest and abdomen.
  2. Khamisa Tuma Ali, 66 – wife of Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali
  3. Rashid Abdul Hamid, 30.
  4. Walid Abdul Hamid Hassan, 35.
  5. Jahid Abdul Hamid Hassan, 50.
  6. Asma Salman Rasif, 32.
    7. Abdullah Walid, 4.
    Injured: Iman, 8, and Abdul Rahman, 5.
    Escaped: Daughter-in-law, Hibbah, escaped with 2-month-old Asia
    House #2 – 8 killed, 1 survivor: Shot at close range and attacked with grenades
  7. Younis Salim Khafif, 43 – husband of Aeda Yasin Ahmed, father.
  8. Aeda Yasin Ahmed, 41 – wife of Younis Salim Khafif, killed trying to shield her youngest daughter Aisha.
    [b]10. Muhammad Younis Salim, 8 – son.
  9. Noor Younis Salim, 14 – daughter.
  10. Sabaa Younis Salim, 10 – daughtert.
  11. Zainab Younis Salim, 5 – daughter.
  12. Aisha Younis Salim, 3 – daughter.
  13. A 1-year-old girl staying with the family.[/b]
    Survived: Safa Younis Salim, 13.
    House #3 – 4 brothers killed
  14. Jamal Ahmed, 41.
  15. Marwan Ahmed, 28.
  16. Qahtan Ahmed, 24.
  17. Chasib Ahmed, 27.
    Taxi – 5 killed: Passengers were students at the Technical Institute in Saqlawiyah
  18. Ahmed Khidher, taxi driver.
  19. Akram Hamid Flayeh.
  20. Khalid Ayada al-Zawi.
  21. Wajdi Ayada al-Zawi.
  22. Mohammed Battal Mahmoud.[/i]

lixy, and I suppose you’ve been over their and cleared houses? I can guarantee you they didn’t go into the house, and slowly methodically point guns at their heads and shoot them execution style.

When it comes to house clearing in Iraq, its not like swat in the states, you run in their and shoot everything that moves, PLUS you throw a frag in before you go in every room, so chances are they never saw a single person they killed.