Marine General Fires off against Bush

Off Topic
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For reporting on how Fox and others like Limbaugh distort the news, check out the website
http://mediamatters.org/

The website is updated almost every day, and there are plenty of examples of conservative bias. The website is run by David Brock, who wrote the book “Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative”, about his years as a conservative media insider. He’s got a new book coming out called “The Republican Noise Machine: Right-Wing Media and How It Corrupts Democracy”.

The latest examples would be Fox calling Al Gore “insane” for his recent “screaming rant” (paraphrasing there). If you watched the speech, Gore only raised his voice during one climactic point.

Even the so-called Elite Liberal Media spins stories to the right. The New York Times apologized this weekend for running pro-war stories without fact-checking, in the months of the lead-up to the Iraq invasion. Many of the justifications for the war were based on false allegations of WMD from Iraqi expatriate Ahmed Chalabi. (The Bush white house relied heavily on Chalabi, and now it turns out he may be working as a spy for Iran). The New York Times repeated the Chalabi bullshit about aluminum tubes, mobile weapons labs, and other stories that turned out to be false.

Anyway, even the mainstream media distorts the news. This week some CNN idiot claimed that Al Qaeda hopes Kerry gets elected. That is not a news story, that is somebody trying to influence public opinion towards the right, and it’s utter propaganda.

The press has always been intended to play an important role in our democracy (“the fourth estate”) with the assumption that people will report the news fairly and accurately.

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Zinni used to work out in my gym, he is a real down to earth person.

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Lumpy -

Everything you just listed was political opinion. Rush Limbaugh is biased in his reporting??? C’mon, you can do better than that…He’s a CONSERVATIVE talk show host - he does no news reporting. Besides if, and when he does report anything, he tells you right up front his angle. SOmething your friends at CNN, NY Times, and the Washington Post fail to do on any story they run.

Right wingers aren’t allowed to write books? - that is not news reporting. At best it is non-fiction.

I’ll ask again - You anti-Bush/anti-war folks - you love to criticize the conservative’s sources - show me specifically a news story that the Fox News Channel has distorted to paint a favorable right wing color to. I’m beggin’ ya.

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Rainjack
Look at that website I gave you a link for. I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him read.

You say Rush Limbaugh doesn’t cover the news? He spends the entire show discussing current events, and spends more time on each story than the nightly news does. I don’t see what substantial distinction you are trying to make there.

“Right wingers aren’t allowed to write books? - that is not news reporting. At best it is non-fiction.”

Ummm… what???

45

Lumpy -

The point I am trying to make is very simple - Limbaugh is first and foremost a political commentator. Not a jpurnalist. He’ll be the first to tell you that he’s no reporter. Does he read news to his audience? Yes - but he also hands them a huge dose of his opinion with it. He’s not masquerading around as a “journalist” - he’s a political analyst. - But I digress - he’s not even on FNC. You can say the same about Hannity, Colmes, or Bill O’Reilley.

My point being that, the major news organizations (NYT, W.P., CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, NPR) - where people go to get their news - fail to draw a line between their personal biases and objective journalism.

I don’t think the war should be a liberal, or conservative issue - but that’s how the press is playing it out. Whether it’s a retired General with a scathing new book, or false reports of cruelty to Iraqi prisoners we get only the bad side of this war told to us by the aforementioned orgs. FNC seems to be the only news org that reports the good and the bad. That does not make them right-wing…they just tell the truth.

God Bless every fighting man/woman out there today. If you see a vet - you owe him a hell of a lot more than a thank you… but at least give him that.

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rainjack,

Very well stated! I could not agree with you more.

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“Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media. Conservative misinformation is defined as news or commentary presented in the media that is not accurate, reliable, or credible and that forwards the conservative agenda.”

Lumpy -
This came from the Media matters website. They are dedicated to countering anything said by a conservative, and as always the liberals are not for profit - as if they could make one doling out their drivel.

Are you seriously suggesting that I believe anything these kooks have to say? Tell you what I’ll do that as soon as you start trusting anything Matt Drudge has to say.

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As a Marine officer, I can say a few things about Anthony Zinni. First, he is a legend both in the Corps and without. If you are not familiar with him, you have not been paying close attention to American foreign policy in the Middle East for the last seven years. He is a man of courage and conviction, not to mention a great leader of Marines (which is the greatest complement any Marine could receive). A video of one of his periods of instruction is still shown in the Marine Corps Infantry Officers Course in Quantico. As a four star general, I highly doubt that he was ever passed up for promotion.
The ultimate judgement on decisions that have been made up to this point regarding Iraq is now a matter for historians to decide. I can say on a small unit level, that the utmost effort has gone into mission planning and preparing Marines to succeed. I’m back in Iraq as an infantry officer for the second time (E Co., 2/1), and I can say for certain that the situation is not lost. It is, however, far from won. In any case, these deployments are killing my bench! All kidding aside, the Marines are fantastic as always.

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Rainman, I have no idea what lumpy is suggesting (and won’t try to put words in his mouth), but I’d suggest it doesn’t hurt to take a look at the other side and consider the material as presented without prejudice.

Maybe you did, I have no way of knowing, but not everybody and everyone is tied to politics and pushing a political agenda (even if they are concerned with “right wing” or “left wing” behavior). Honestly, I have no idea if they do or don’t. If they are lopsided or unfair in their own treatment, then I’d guess they do have an agenda.

As for Rush and pals, while they do not call themselves reporters or purport to report, they do put a spin on reported material. The nature of politicizing what is essentially news is what is being talked about, no matter what language you use to describe it.

You can watch Dennis Miller and get a dose of his opinion with current events as well. By no means is he pretending that he is a reporter but he still shapes opinions and ideas. Basically, any discussion of current events in a public forum has an effect on shaping opinion.

I’m not suggesting censorship or some type of editorial control or anything stupid like that. But, I will suggest that reporting “good” and “bad” is only one type of balance. The stations doing that can still be unbalanced in a “left” versus “right” orientation.

The choice of words, the intonation, the look on the face, the gestures used, the availability of countering opinion and so on all affect public belief. Countering opinion or analysis or presentation of both sides to let the reader decide has been lacking lately.

In particular, the lack of “investigation” and “independent verification” is alarming today. While not literally controlled, the media is nearly “de-facto” controlled. This is what the NY Times was apologizing for recently.

Anyway, I’m not claiming that either yourself or lumpy are right or wrong. However, as with anything important, the issues involved are quite involved and deserve some fairly deep thought. They greatly impact the democratic process itself.

Media and it’s relationship to the administration (any sitting administration) has changed over the years. What is that going to mean? Media and it’s relationship to the public (in terms of presenting entertainment but still being perceived as a authoritative and editorialized source) has changed over the years. What is that going to mean?

Consider carefully. If the media is easy to slant and bias, there will be a day when it is slanted and biased against your values and beliefs. All of a sudden there is some huge conspiracy – and you hear both sides bitching about it already.

Even if you forget the problem of bias, what if there is no good place to get fair and balanced news anymore? What if the media only parrots whatever the current administration says, because that is cheaper and easier. What if the only commentary is entertainment given by Rush and or comedians. Will that be a positive or negative impact with respect to the ability of Americans to be informed and make good decisions about their future?

Anyhow, none of it is my problem. Good luck with that. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Todd,
Thanks for replying! 2nd deployment? You must have gone over pretty early the first time.

I was pretty confident that Zinni’s reputation was deserved, but it is good to hear it from an actual Marine.

I have a great deal of respect for the soldiers over there right now. My cousin is leaving for his second deployment next month, and my brother-in-law is enjoying a few months stateside after finally getting back from Iraq last month. He’ll probably head back after about 6 months here. Please be careful over there. We’ll keep the bench warm for you while your away!

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Rainjack said
“I don’t think the war should be a liberal, or conservative issue - but that’s how the press is playing it out. Whether it’s a retired General with a scathing new book, or false reports of cruelty to Iraqi prisoners we get only the bad side of this war told to us by the aforementioned orgs. FNC seems to be the only news org that reports the good and the bad. That does not make them right-wing…they just tell the truth.”

LOL. Dude, you’re not supposed to drop the dumbells on your head!!!

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todd:

Couldn’t agree with you more: we certainly haven’t lost, but we’ve far from won. I hope you and the Marines will see to fixing the latter. And I hope the people back home don’t falter in their resolve to give you the support to do your job.

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toddjacobs13
Thank you for your service and a qualified perspective on General Zinni. As far as Fox news goes of course guys like Rainjack and PtrDr are gonna love it! It espouses your total belief in this administration and the reasons for going to war! Just take a look at Hannity or O’reilly they invite someone with an opposing opinion on their show ask them a question then interupt them before they can say three words. They always start getting emotional and self righteous then start casting accusations at their “guest”. If you cannot see that you have no awareness.

As far as supporting the troops If we wiped out the insurgents, terrorists tomorrow without one more single american casualty and left Iraq in a stable environment I would not be happier! It would not change the fact that we we’re misled in the reasons given for this war and the fact that we could have accomplished the goal of getting rid of Saddam in a different way. Yes, it would have taken longer, but it could have been deen with eight hundred less american casaulities.

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Elkh,

Wrong.

We’ve already found banned weapons.

Misled?

Support the troops with no caveats attached (even if a Republican has sent them).

Jeff

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Sigh, that is pretty black and white style thinking Jeff.

The US did not go to war because of leftovers. Well, actually, I guess maybe it did, it just didn’t think so at the time.

Don’t make me start calling you Pinocchio again.

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vroom,

Remember that little bit about Saddam declaring he had no banned weapons? Oh, you forgot.

Let me guess, now that we’ve found some weapons, the liberals or the foreigners who dislike the U.S., are going to start differentiating them into: “couldn’t have killed more than 100,000” or “ONLY artillery shells.”

Let me clear up the confusion for you, if you can export them, then they are WMD that were and are a clear and present danger. The threat is imminent. Want examples? Take a peek at how many different countries are experiencing terrorist attacks.

What did you think of this padilla fellow who apparently was training to detonate a “dirty bomb” in the U.S.? I’ll bet mustard gas and ricin would make a very “dirty” bomb.

Oh, wait, maybe George Bush’s father paid to have the padilla confession forged. Hell, he paid for everything else.

Or, maybe Osama Bin Laden thought Saddam was too secular for him. Therefore, there is no way they could have collaberated. God, that is pathetic. Go bury your head in the sand, we’ll take care of business.

By the way, calling me names doesn’t change the facts. I have to admit, it does make me laugh. Have a good one,

Jeff

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JeffR
Your fanatical support of Bush reminds me of the extremist thinking of the Taliban or extremist islam where there are no shades of grey just the party line! Your thinking is reminiscent of a child in love with his favorite super hero. Open up your eyes and use that brain god gave you!

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Proof on liberal media Bias. And vroom said it couldn’t be done?

and http://www.mediaresearchcenter.com/

anyone interested in the good news going on in iraq, try this one. http://www.cpa-iraq.org/

Funniest thing is that most of you don’t realize that you are being brainwashed by the media. But I know you think we are the ones getting brainwashed. Yup, our one station is definately brainwashing us. Verses the liberal 70% representation in the media spewing thier bias as news.

59

Jeff, are you unable to fathom the difference between some small amount of lost weaponry and a mass production capacity? There is a slight difference between the two.

Consider your own beloved administration. They claimed all sorts of things, but they made some mistakes (which they will never admit). How come Saddam can’t make a mistake and have the odd mislabled or misplaced shell lying around? You think the US military never loses a shell?

So, when the Bush regime claimed mobile laboratories, nuclear weapons programs and so on… several twenty year old shells will fit the bill? Get a life. Nobody went to war because there was leftover crap sitting around.

By the way, dirty bombs have usually referred to some type of radioactivity. They aren’t truly nuclear in terms of detonation, but still have radioactive material which leaves behind an awful mess.

So, I’m not claiming there is no threat of terrorism. I’m not claiming that leaving Saddam in place wouldn’t have left a higher threat. I’m claiming that what was found is not what was expected. I doubt that without the hyped claims that anyone (senate, public, so on) would have allowed Bush to commit troops to Iraq.

Anyhow, I don’t know where you buy your blinders, but they are pretty good. Probably almost as good as those worn by the muslim extremists. Later Pinocchio.

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Oh and JeffR, you said in your post “we are taking care of business” to me that begs the question what exactly are you doing? Or are you like wolfewitz, rove, perle, cheney, and bush, war experts who have never been to war. Take a look at republicans against bush, just type it into your search engine and see what comes up! Support for bushleague is dwindling and dwindling fast. Did you watch the news conference with bush last night. It actually made me feel for the man, slightly. He seems so disoriented when he has to answer questions repeating the same little slogans over and over again whenever he is asked a question. Im tired of hearing “stay the course”, “shake our resolve”,“they hate freedom”, when are we gonna get some real answers?