What makes you think that the legalization of weed would increase its use?
What makes you think that legalization of weed would decrease it’s use?
What point does that make?
How many would increase their use, or use for the first time if it was legal and well accepted?
I’m sure some don’t care, but many still do, at least according to the latest studies. When something is made legal and becomes a part of the culture and is accepted it’s use does not recede, it increases! How does that help our society?
Why do you think we need more pot heads in our country? How does this help anyone?
I Know exacly what you’re saying bro. The only reason i brought up the health issues is because most of the governments arguments ARE in fact based on the supposed unhealthy effects of using this illegal substance, it’s part of the scare tactics. So i just adressed the issue before anyone brought it up, and as you can see with the progress of this thread, there it is.
I think you’re a little brain-washed. What I learned in my Drugs and Behavior class by disinterested but top scientists in the field seems more credible to me than sources with social agendas and reason to be biased. Namely that was, the addiction potential for marijuana is so low as to be nonexistent. Pyschologically, there can be addiction.
But this is just a coping mechanism and a crutch comparable to any non-physical addiction. There’s extremely little evidence of detrimental long term effects on cognition from moderate use. The same for social life. Heavy use is associated, but there are a million explanations for this. In terms of health, marijuana use has been shown to be detrimental to lung function, most heavily associated with emphysema. It’s link to cancer is quite questionable. The studies attempting to eliminate all confounds suggest the correlation is low. The biggest comfound in terms of investigating the link to cancer is that a huge percentage of those studied were also heavy smokers (cigarettes).
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Right on all posts i must admit despite being irritated by you before, but you’re right none the less.
The issue with MJ and the lungs is pretty much factual about ANY plant matter inhaled into the lungs, not just MJ. So that issue is an none issue IMO. Enphysema is more of an issue as pointed out before with cigarette smoking cannabis partakers, so in this case the cannabis smokers do indeed have enphysema but it’s from their tobacco inhalation.
And any experienced smokers know that there are many ways to inhale MJ, from filterd spliffs, water pipes to vaporisers, it can also be eaten.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
No…no problem at all. First let’s talk to the traffic cops and ask them if they think that accidents would go up if there was more pot use. When we are done there let’s talk to the emergency room docotrs and nurses. There are obviously countless medical problems (in addition). Smoke in the lungs…not a good thing. Those who say “it’s my lungs” have to realize that IT’S MY MY MONEY WHICH GOES TO PAY RISING INSURANCE COSTS!
I think when you promote something that takes away (at least some) reason, and partial control of your faculties and in addition to this is obviously bad for you physically, it’s not a step forward, but backward.
30,000 people die each year in alcohol related traffic accidents. Countless others suffer the many other problems of alcoholism. How many die from use of tobacco? If more people smoke pot we will have even more social problems? Whether it’s addictive or not, it’s not a good idea to make it legal. It seems that there is enough social problems related to people trying to forget who they are and where they are by consuming some sort of drug…
Seriously, why can’t we come up with something that helps people instead of tears them down?
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Weel this is a head in the sand approach. First off who cares what traffic cops “think” would happen? How is it that they’re an authority on projecting could be scenarios with compounds they know little about.
in regards to societies ills, what you say rings very true, but upon closer examination you will see that use of caanabis is already the highest in the world, right here in the good old usa. I know that 7 outof 10 people smoke or have smoked in the past. So the rise in MJ use you think will happen, will only happen on paper becasue with legalization the statistics will become more accurate in reflacting what’s really going on right now, versus what the feds think is going on. Trying to keep statistics on who uses MJ is like running statistics on people’s sex habits, just no way to gauge accuracy.
And emergency room visits? Not likely. Lung damage? Will Never happen.
What makes you think that the legalization of weed would increase its use?
What makes you think that legalization of weed would decrease it’s use?[/quote]
I neve said it would…I simply dont believe those who currently arent getting high would start if weed were legalized.
[quote]
I dont know how it was when you were a kid but it was far easier for me to go out and buy weed than it was to buy alcohol.
What point does that make?[/quote]
Because of its illegality, pot is currently sold on the black market where sellers arent licensed and arent accountable. A 16 and a 35 year old can just as readily buy the stuff making it fairly easy for a minor to get high. Alcohol, on the other hand, is a bit more difficult for a minor to get his/her hands on(assuming he or she isnt stealing it from their parents).
[quote]
Seriously, how many people do you know that refuse to smoke weed because its illegal?
How many would increase their use, or use for the first time if it was legal and well accepted?[/quote]
I have no way of really knowing but I highly doubt a substantial number. Anyone who wants to get high can already do it with little to no worry of every getting caught.
Which studies are those? Something doesnt need to be made legal to be accepted by culture. First of all, weed hasnt been illegal in this country for that long and we did just fine before. Secondly, when alcohol was made illegal (through a constitutional amendment making it at the very least a legal act…more than you can say for the illegalization of weed) it wasnt forgotten by popular culture. It sale was forced underground, giving rise to organized crime, death, and a lot of suffering. Exactly how did that help our society? And exactly how does the current “war” on drugs help our society? Its all about supply and demand…as long as there is a demand someone will find a way to supply. Make the object of said demand illegal and guess who does the supplying?
[quote]
Why do you think we need more pot heads in our country? How does this help anyone?[/quote]
I dont think we need more pot heads in our country! I also dont think we need more people in prison for harming no one but themselves; we dont need more gang wars; we dont need to involve ourselves in the affairs of countries like Columbia in order to stop drug traffic; we dont need to provide another source of funding for terrorists; we really dont need the government telling adults how they ought to live their lives. How does any of that help anyone?
[quote]Gregus wrote:
ZEB wrote:
No…no problem at all. First let’s talk to the traffic cops and ask them if they think that accidents would go up if there was more pot use. When we are done there let’s talk to the emergency room docotrs and nurses. There are obviously countless medical problems (in addition). Smoke in the lungs…not a good thing. Those who say “it’s my lungs” have to realize that IT’S MY MY MONEY WHICH GOES TO PAY RISING INSURANCE COSTS!
I think when you promote something that takes away (at least some) reason, and partial control of your faculties and in addition to this is obviously bad for you physically, it’s not a step forward, but backward.
30,000 people die each year in alcohol related traffic accidents. Countless others suffer the many other problems of alcoholism. How many die from use of tobacco? If more people smoke pot we will have even more social problems? Whether it’s addictive or not, it’s not a good idea to make it legal. It seems that there is enough social problems related to people trying to forget who they are and where they are by consuming some sort of drug…
Seriously, why can’t we come up with something that helps people instead of tears them down?
Weel this is a head in the sand approach. First off who cares what traffic cops “think” would happen? How is it that they’re an authority on projecting could be scenarios with compounds they know little about.
in regards to societies ills, what you say rings very true, but upon closer examination you will see that use of caanabis is already the highest in the world, right here in the good old usa. I know that 7 outof 10 people smoke or have smoked in the past. So the rise in MJ use you think will happen, will only happen on paper becasue with legalization the statistics will become more accurate in reflacting what’s really going on right now, versus what the feds think is going on. Trying to keep statistics on who uses MJ is like running statistics on people’s sex habits, just no way to gauge accuracy.
And emergency room visits? Not likely. Lung damage? Will Never happen.
[/quote]
Talk about head in the sand!
According to you ONLY good things will happen upon the legalization of Mj. At least look at the possibility that there exists potential for both health and public safety concerns similar to alcohol.
I don’t dispute that marijuana use would go up with legalization. It very well might. I just don’t really view that as a problem.
No…no problem at all. First let’s talk to the traffic cops and ask them if they think that accidents would go up if there was more pot use. When we are done there let’s talk to the emergency room docotrs and nurses. There are obviously countless medical problems (in addition). Smoke in the lungs…not a good thing. Those who say “it’s my lungs” have to realize that IT’S MY MY MONEY WHICH GOES TO PAY RISING INSURANCE COSTS!
I think when you promote something that takes away (at least some) reason, and partial control of your faculties and in addition to this is obviously bad for you physically, it’s not a step forward, but backward.
30,000 people die each year in alcohol related traffic accidents. Countless others suffer the many other problems of alcoholism. How many die from use of tobacco? If more people smoke pot we will have even more social problems? Whether it’s addictive or not, it’s not a good idea to make it legal. It seems that there is enough social problems related to people trying to forget who they are and where they are by consuming some sort of drug…
Seriously, why can’t we come up with something that helps people instead of tears them down?
[/quote]
I’m a big believer in balancing the public and private interest. I think that sometimes private concerns should be subguated or at least compromised to a degree to benefit society as a whole, but I don’t this is one of those cases. I find it very unfortunate that irresponsible people, through dangerous actions under the influences of substances or otherwise, take a toll on individuals and society. But I don’t think it should illegal for me and the millions like me to enjoy a few beers because some jackasses get loaded and get behind the wheel. Not to say that we shouldn’t have extremely stiff penalites for drunk driving. I think we should. I feel the same way about pot. I think I should be able to smoke a bowl when I feel like it once and awhile. This should not be forbidden to me because some assholes hit the gravity bong all night and proceed to drive. As an aside, I don’t think we would (or do) see nearly as many accidents associated with marijuana as alcohol. (stupid) People who are drunk often don’t hesitate about driving, seem more willing to drive long distances, and drive recklessly. I don’t support driving high. Your reflexes and reaction time are compromised. It is certainly still more dangerous. But drunk drivers go through red lights. High drivers stop at green. I’m half-joking, but there’s a lot of truth to this.
According to you ONLY good things will happen upon the legalization of Mj. At least look at the possibility that there exists potential for both health and public safety concerns similar to alcohol.[/quote]
I’m willing to admit that there could be. I don’t think there would be anywhere near the tragedies associated with irresponsible alcohol use. But there might be some increased problems.
Weel this is a head in the sand approach. First off who cares what traffic cops “think” would happen? How is it that they’re an authority on projecting could be scenarios with compounds they know little about.[/quote]
Weel they happen to be the ones who have to scrape people up off the highway after they have been smoking and have lousy judgement! They are indeed authorities on the subject of what can happen to the end user.
Actually, according to the latest stats the user rate is far less than 7 uot of 10. In fact, the highest user rate is that of people between the ages of 18 and 29. What does that tell you?
I don’t doubt that some are lying about their use, because it’s illegal. And what does that tell you? If it was legal and socially accpeted in all circles as alcohol is now it would be furhter abused. How does making something more socially acceptable and more available ever reduce the rate of it’s use? That makes no sense. I think we have a good example with alcohol. Many did use it during prohibition. However, when it became legalized alcohol use and abuse skyrocketed. Why would pot be any different? And really…who needs that?
[quote]And emergency room visits? Not likely. Lung damage? Will Never happen.
[/quote]
Ha ha…inhaling pot smoke is not all that good for the lungs. Emergency room visits for many reasons. Ever work the ER on a weekend, I have. There are alls sorts of reasons that people enter the ER. Some mental some physcial-either way pot won’t help the situation.
In fact, I’m still waiting for some seriously good reasons to legalize this drug. What good comes from it? How does it promote a better society?
According to you ONLY good things will happen upon the legalization of Mj. At least look at the possibility that there exists potential for both health and public safety concerns similar to alcohol.
I’m willing to admit that there could be. I don’t think there would be anywhere near the tragedies associated with irresponsible alcohol use. But there might be some increased problems.[/quote]
I never suggested there would be. But to simply disregard the potential is foolish. I’m sure the negative effects of alcohol present day were not anticipated 50+ yrs ago. To dismiss the fact that a bunch of inexperienced high drivers may pose problems is not reasonable.
I agree with legalization, but let’s at least admit that all of the worldsills will not be solved because we can now legally get high. Let’s be honest to the fact that unforseen situations and potential negative side effects WILL occur.
That said–the Prof said something a few pages ago that rings true. (paraphrased)–Why should adults be treated like kids just because kids exist.
I neve said it would…I simply dont believe those who currently arent getting high would start if weed were legalized.[/quote]
I think that’s contrary to human nature and also what we saw at the end of prohibition. The more it becomes socially acceptable and the more readily available the more it will be used.
Maybe in your circle of friends, I don’t know. But again the more acceptable it becomes the more it will be used. You don’t end a problem by embracing it and making it legal.
[quote]How many would increase their use, or use for the first time if it was legal and well accepted?
I have no way of really knowing but I highly doubt a substantial number. Anyone who wants to get high can already do it with little to no worry of every getting caught.[/quote]
Some are worried when they brak the law and some are not. However, in 2003 755, 186 marijuana arrests were made! Do you think they were “worried” about it before the got arrested? By the way that’s almost double the figure from 1980.
You are reversing logic again. If something does not have to be made illegal in order to be accepted does that mean that something will be LESS accepted if it is made legal? No of course not! It will be even more accepted.
Once again you are twisting logic to make a point. Are you claiming that there was less “death” and pain directly related to alcohol after it was in fact legalized?
In 2000 the third highest rate of death was alcohol related. Can you tell me that it was this high when alcohol was illegal? No of course not.
I totally agree with this statement. However, your answer is wrong. You don’t decrease usage by increasing it’s social acceptance and availability. Again the alcohol example…
Make something more readily available and more socially acceptable and you will have more people using that thing…
In this case more pot heads.
Themselves only? Think again, how many pot related traffic accidents? Pot related medical problems? etc…no one lives in a vacuum. Insurance rates and medical costs go up and those who actually pay into the system will be paying even more. I would rather foot the bill for their prison time.
And the answer is to legalize pot to solve all of these woes? No of course not.
[quote]we really dont need the government telling adults how they ought to live their lives. How does any of that help anyone?
[/quote]
I don’t especially like gov interference. However, I also don’t like the idea of driving down the street and not knowing who is high because pot was legalized. It would be more prevelant than it is now as I have pointed out.
Nor do I like the idea of younger users. Nor do I like the idea of medical costs and insurance costs rising. Basically, making pot legal is a very bad idea.
I’m still waiting for one of these pro pot guys to tell me all the many benefits that society will have with the legalization of pot. I can think of the many negatives…
According to you ONLY good things will happen upon the legalization of Mj. At least look at the possibility that there exists potential for both health and public safety concerns similar to alcohol.
I’m willing to admit that there could be. I don’t think there would be anywhere near the tragedies associated with irresponsible alcohol use. But there might be some increased problems.
I never suggested there would be. But to simply disregard the potential is foolish. I’m sure the negative effects of alcohol present day were not anticipated 50+ yrs ago. To dismiss the fact that a bunch of inexperienced high drivers may pose problems is not reasonable.
I agree with legalization, but let’s at least admit that all of the worldsills will not be solved because we can now legally get high. Let’s be honest to the fact that unforseen situations and potential negative side effects WILL occur.
That said–the Prof said something a few pages ago that rings true. (paraphrased)–Why should adults be treated like kids just because kids exist. [/quote]
I’m not disregarding the potential problems. There are already a lot of inexperienced high drivers. Legalization might or might not make that situation worse. I admit that. I agree with you that unforseen situations and potential negative side effects will occur. I don’t really see legalization as particularly improving our society in any way beyond allowing us to do something we should be able to do. I agree with you that based on all our information, it should be legal.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m still waiting for one of these pro pot guys to tell me all the many benefits that society will have with the legalization of pot. I can think of the many negatives…[/quote]
How about the hundreds of federal agents freed up who can fight against terrorism instead of searching for weed? The BILLIONS of dollars better spent on other programs? The fact that it’s another thing a person can decide for themselves and engage in personal responsibility.
I can only assume that you prefer that kids be able to buy and sell cannabis from each other, instead of regulating and licensing the supply, since you support prohibition.
Speaking of prohibition, you say that death, etc. increased after it was relegalized. Is this scaled for population increase? How about underage drinking during and after? What about poisonings from bathtub gin?
The per capita rate for cannabis consumption is lower in the Netherlands than other countries that prohibit it. Forbidden fruit?
I’ll find the link later, but a study in Australia and one in Canada show that high drivers are far less impaired than drunk drivers or tired drivers. In a few statistically insignificant instances, they even did better than the control group.
Surely you can admit that compared directly to alcohol cannabis is less dangerous health wise, and to others. In that ER, what did you see more of: alcohol only or cannabis only related injuries? According to national data, cannabis only ER vists rank below dog bites in frequency.
Yet you are not in favor of remaking alcohol illegal, prohibiting tobacco, and legalizing cannabis? Why not? Better for the health system by far. Is it because of tradition?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m still waiting for one of these pro pot guys to tell me all the many benefits that society will have with the legalization of pot. I can think of the many negatives…[/quote]
yes many negatives. good quality bud would vanish and be replaced by absolute shit with obscenely huge godzilla-sized marketing budgets and ceo salaries. as it is now it’s easier to get good pot than it is to get good food. legalize it ? you hippie skankers are too frickn lazy to know a good thing when you see it so shut the f up ! frickn dickheads wouldn’t know what to do with yourselves if you had that much freedom and nothing to protest.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m still waiting for one of these pro pot guys to tell me all the many benefits that society will have with the legalization of pot. I can think of the many negatives…[/quote]
aHAHA! But ZEB, what about our doctrine of personal liberty? Shouldn’t the onus be on our government to show us a reasonable way that MJ is harmful to society? All they have is lies. Did you see my post earlier about the prison system and incarcerations, etc.? They (government folks) have a lot to lose if we legalize it.
And to repeat myself from before: I see those accidents, the aftermath of shootings, stabbings, OD’s… you name it. I’m sure that in an hour or so I’ll be shaking my head at the lack of wisdom of some drunk college student parking the business end of his car into a tree. My point is that this is not MJ doing this, ZEB, it’s beer. Or harder stuff like coke or PCP (yes they still do that shit).
Although having said that, I will agree that legalizing something that befuddles the mind and squashes the willpower is not necessarily a positive thing, but it is hypocrisy to the highest degree to glorify the use of a poison such as alcohol on TV while spreading lies and propoganda about a poison which is very very very less harmful.
Honestly, if someone came to me and said that we had to pick between alcohol or weed to be legal… I would unhesitatingly pick weed. And I won’t and wouldn’t even touch the stuff. In fact, I would say that I look down on people a little bit that smoke it. Every time I see one of my roomates spark up a jay, I think to myself “there ya go… get even stupider”. And yes, “stupider” is a word.
To sum up: Those “negatives” you were mentioning above are not necessarily as large and looming as you might imagine.
And hemp is good material for clothes. Makes a mean rope, too. Helps relieve pain in the chronically sick. Helps chemo patients with their nausea. Relaxes a stressed-out mind. Stimulates the appetite. Hey! There’s all kinds of positives! Shall I go on, or do you get what I’m saying here?