Hey sleeper, can you elaborate a little on what your experience with the conjugate method was like? If you’ve written about this before I may have missed it. I’ve been reading stuff (mostly) on elitefts on it and have thought about giving it a try for years but have always been put off by all the talk about how it’s not ideal for raw lifters and other things. Now I’m once more considering it for when the T-ransformation challenge is over.
No I’m too weak for that lol!
I like a lot more playing team sport but it always been on the social/amateur side.
But I start to care about the weight class because I have done my first judo competition and I need to be at a specific weight. Cutting weight makes me really feel like shit. It’s a lot tougher than I thought.
Absolutely! First I’ll state that I followed a specific conjugate program that may not be the same as how Westside does it, but I think it used most of the main principles. The program I followed was “16 Week Conjugate Periodization Program For Novice Powerlifters” from EliteFTS. Also, I only completed 1.5 cycles of it so I’m hardly an expert, but I’m still happy to give my opinions on it.
- It is an enjoyable program as you max out (3RM or 1RM) with a main lift variation, which keeps the lifting fresh. Pro: I don’t think I had ever previously worked up to a max on a floor press, or good morning, or rack pull, etc. so this gave me a chance to do so. Con: You would have to run for quite awhile to start seeing evidence of progress on these lifts since they aren’t repeated again for an entire month.
- I think the program would be effective (long term) at addressing weak points. I mean, that’s kind of the point of the program. You need to be experienced enough to know your weak points, AND know which lifts will target these weak points to make your main lift variation for your ME day.
- I liked the box squats, but not in place of my free squats on DE day as the program dictates. I would use box squats on ME day but then using bands and regular back squats on my DE day.
- Lacking specificity for me. When trying to hit a new PR after 3-4 weeks on the program the main lifts felt awkward. As if my body forgot how to handle the 90+%RM weights in the main lifts. Whereas a program such as 5/3/1 has you going up to 90%+ each week for each lift. Possibly when I become a more advanced lifter, and technique is 100% dialed in this program could be beneficial for addressing weak points. For now I think I’m better off just chipping away at my strength levels and making sure that my technique is continuously honed.
- I really want to like using bands. A lot of strong dudes use them and swear by them, but I’m just not sold on them yet. On paper, I get it. Overloading the top of the movement, reinforcing acceleration through the lift, etc… I just don’t feel a significant difference when lifting (sure they add lbs, but not a noticeable increase/decrease through the movement), and can’t say that they have had any carryover that I have noticed. I’m not done with them though, and will try to mix them in here and there.
Most people that have given me advice have said, for a first competition, you shouldn’t worry about weight, just go in and do your best. This could be very different for judo as this could be the difference between literally getting your ass kicked, or kicking ass.
For PL, at the end of the day, I just want as big of a total as I can get. Sure it would be cool to get it in a lower weight class to try and get my name on the record board (which I may eventually strive for). But for now, putting up a strong total is a priority over losing weight, possibly losing strength and increasing the risk of injury.
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If you’re not concerned with cutting then are you bulking or just maintaining?
Thank you for the detailed response!
Undetermined, I suppose. Well, I don’t count calories but at least for a week or two of this SVR II template I’m going to be making sure that I’m not hungry to ensure adequate recovery. Main focus = strength gain, secondary focus = not getting fat. So maintaining?
Anytime man, hope it helped!
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This is going to be the biggest challenge for me during the transformation challenge. The idea of counting calories has never really sat well with me. It takes the fun out of training as far as myself is concerned
I’m convinced that I’m weak because I’m lean… and I’ve been obsessed with staying lean for way too long. I’m a little excited to get back to my 240 lb days. I was fatter, and a little more out of shape (I can fix that) but I could move more weight. I recall using 85’s for sets of 6 on seated DB OHP back in college. Hell I struggle to use those on bench anymore. I’ve never stopped training so I’ve been baffled by my struggles. I’ve put physique ahead of strength on several occasions. Over the last couple years I’ve mostly been resigned to my size and wanted to push my strength. I’ve randomly talked with a few people lately (both here and in my real life) and it seems that everyone agrees that I need to gain weight to add weight to the bar.
I’m excited to loosen up my diet a bit but I know I have to hold myself back because it won’t do me any good to just gain 20 lbs in the next two months.
I also got a Fitbit for Christmas. I know that fitness toys aren’t accurate but it actually seems to be close to what I already estimated for my daily caloric expenditure. I’m going to use it to make sure I’m in a small surplus each day. Yesterday I was hungry all afternoon and evening and according to the Fitbit I burned over 3200 calories before bedtime. My daily intake is set at 3100. The extra caloric burn lined up with my hunger so it has to be a little accurate, right?
I’ve tried calorie counting on multiple occasions, but it is a chore. I would literally rather workout again, than track my fricken food. Eating is one of my most joyous activities in like, I shall not ruin it with mathematics.
Keep in mind you aren’t actually weak. Just weaker than a lot of the freaks on this website. You’re plenty above average in both strength and muscle mass. A lot of the active posters on here are winning bodybuilding, powerlifting and strongman contests. The bar is being set pretty damn high for yourself.
It is pretty clear though that you are one of the ‘skinny guys’ (similar looking structure to a strong friend of mine that has been the same weight/strength for years). I think if you pushed yourself up to 240lbs (slowishly) and held it there for the better part of a year you might force your body to grow and obviously then strength would follow. I don’t know though, I’m not even close to a hard gainer.
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@Frank_C definitely this, your numbers are good (with the understanding that your bar is higher than the ‘average’ lifter) but you are far from a weak individual.
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Well, thanks guys! (@Despade)
My goals still seem pretty average for folks around here (3/4/5 plates) but I’ll get there.
I count calories and I’m basically living in my own prison. If I stop then I start to gain weight, lose my abs, and I panic. I get frustrated that loosening up on my tracking leads to fat gain. I’m also a male who stores fat in his belly first so it’s impossible to gain any weight without instantly losing my abs. I’m going to have to get over that. I think what gets me the most is how I look in the mirror. If I can stay around 12% body fat then I have some ab definition but more importantly, I have that awesome V taper from shoulders to waist. When I add a few pounds it goes straight to my love handles and my taper is gone. I have a rectangle shape and it kills me! I suppose if I ride it out a bit more then I can add some mass to my shoulders and just go for a larger V shape.
I watched “Born Strong” on Netflix last night. Holy shit, those guys are monsters. They may be tall but they were born LARGE. My wrists are a whopping 7 inches thick. I’m pretty sure those guys were my size (bone structure wise) when they were like 10. Hell, even Eddie Hall was setting records as a swimmer when he was a teen. The guy just has elite genetics. They all do.
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One thing I noticed in the 2 days of going to a public gym is that nobody is working out hard enough (IMO). I’m not saying you fall right into this category, but possibly.
Their working out was far too casual. I mean, if you’re just looking to “be in shape” then whatever floats your boat. But if you want to get big in strong, you have to have a bit of aggression and attack in your lifting. There were very few people sweating, and I didn’t see one ‘ugly lifting face’ the entire time I was there. My last few reps of every set I’m sure my face looked like I was about to cry due to severe constipation. This is simply because I was givin’er. I’m too damn competitive. If I don’t tell myself at least once a set to put the weight down, but then fight through and keep going for additional reps, I didn’t push far enough (obviously within reason, recovery, blah blah).
For myself, I work out for 45mins - 1hr. I couldn’t imagine torturing myself for much longer than this. All this high volume, fluffy shit for 2+hours showing minimal results is plaguing the fitness world!
I like workout simplicity because then I can just destroy myself on each of the few movements I’m doing for the day. There is no saving energy for the 10 different things I have to do, or just doing 3 x 10. I go into most sets thinking “This is going to suck”.
If you enjoy your workouts, you probably aren’t getting results.
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I hear ya, my workouts are usually under an hour too. Only time they go over is if I’m sharing equipment with a buddy but that usually pushes the intensity up.
One thing I’ve found interesting from the Forever book is the ‘training not testing’ mantra. I certainly treated it like testing for a while, but I’m finding I can manipulate training to feel just as hard but not be totally trashed afterwards. Super and giant setting movements with main lifts has been a key addition to my routine for this.
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Why even waste your time trying to “workout” for two hours if your not going to try and better yourself?? Literally makes no sense to me either. It feels great knowing I actually accomplished something by pushing myself and getting out of breath,.
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I find that working out around people is pretty motivating in small doses (I lift early, with my buddy, prior to the gym actually opening) so when I do get around a “normal” crowd, I always end up getting an additional couple of pounds or reps, ha. I’m vain in that regard I guess
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Yea, I agree to a point. I also think that people can use this as an out to not give their maximum effort in the gym.
I’m giving damn near 100% effort in there, but not using 100% of my max weights. But I do leave the weight room with the gas light on.
It would make sense if someone actually enjoyed working out. Like they would rather work out than play a sport or something. They are still keeping themselves in above-average shape and doing something they like. BUT for someone looking for more than that or who doesn’t enjoy working out, I say you might as well bust your ass.
I have convinced a buddy of mine to run this cycle of 5/3/1 with me. He is more of a beginner, but even having him there has definitely pushed me for additional reps. Gotta show off a little…
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This is going to a good year for the PLers, I can feel it.
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Alright! You have a “new” short term goal, 240 bw. Muscles now, for strength later. You’ve got a “new” routine, CTs muscle plan. Now you just need a new “bench mark” to use to get “feedback” so you can evaluate how your training is working.
As you mentioned, using your abs to evaluate how your training is going (for strength, your “old” goal) doesn’t work very well. Measuring how big you’re getting by checking your and probably won’t work well either.
You mentioned V-Taper. Do you think you could periodically measure shoulder circumference/thigh size gains vs waist gains as a way to “measure” your results. Maybe this could ease your mind, and keep you motivated? We see bodybuilders evaluate with weekly photos, or other guys take measurements. Runners go run some set distance. Guys getting results are finding good ways to track their results.
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“100% effort, not 100% max weights.”
I like it!
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I’d say I train harder than most at the public gym but training alone holds me back a bit. I always pushed a little harder during the short period where I had a buddy lifting with me. There’s no reason to rack it after a sketchy rep; you can try for another and your buddy can bail you out if you fail. The funny thing is that more often than not you get that rep on your own.
I measure myself periodically but I’ve never done shoulder width. I might have to add that one to the list. I do need to come up with a good way to evaluate my progress, but at this point it seems like the scale is the most obvious choice. I’m going to do my best to avoid the mirror simply because my viewpoint is skewed. It’s the typical ‘never satisfied/never good enough’ thing. I also take photos pretty regularly; I just don’t always post them. MyFitnessPal always reminds me to take a photo with my weigh-ins and occasionally I comply.
I’ll have to do some reverse math and maybe lay out some three month goals in terms of weight gain to make sure I don’t get too far ahead or behind. The down side to all of this is that I’m not 100% so my training is modified at the moment.
I enjoy my training for the most part. There are always a couple of exercises planned that make me cringe because I know they’re going to hurt. I’d say my lifting is always an hour or less but my overall sessions can get long when I add in conditioning and direct ab work. It’s not hard to drag out a session.
10-15 minute warm-up on the track
60 minutes lifting (my standard rest is 60 seconds and it gets stretched to 2 minutes between heavy sets of deads or squats)
15-20 minutes of conditioning (usually sprints or intervals on the track)
Catch breath, regroup, stumble down the stairs to pick up my kids from the Kid Zone and it’s been close to two hours.
Without any cardio or conditioning my Best Damn workouts are taking 30 minutes. It’s a nice change of pace.
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