Man Kills Teen Who Knocked Him Off Bike

[roybot]

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What exactly happens between 16 and 18 that makes someone an adult?

At 16 I had sense. I was on my way to college. When the fuck did 16 year olds become little kids in society? If you can drive a fucking car, you are old enough to THINK.[/quote]

Oh how that should be true but is not.

Before I say anything else, I must say that I do agree with the guy defending himself, but killing a teen still should not be celebrated as some people have already done, just accepted as something that needed to happen. We can’t value one life over another without more information, but the older gentleman deserved to value his over his assailants’. [/quote]

? Who is celebrating? This will likely happen LESS now that they know you can get shot for it. That’s a win win situation if you save more lives in the long run.

[/quote]

It should be noted before some bleeding heart goes off from just reading the title that the kids knocked him off the bike then tried to rob him. SO I am perfectly OK if not more than OK with them all getting shot.

I’m the kind of angry SOB that would prefer he’d missed and only shot them all in the spine so they were all paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their days. I would prefer they were 18 or over for this, but still, 16 is just old enough.

I’ll let you find out who said that. But it sure seems like celebrating to me. And did I ever say it was bad that the old man defended himself? No, I just said it wasn’t good that someone had to die for it. Imagine how the mother feels. Obviously she may not be the best parent, but either way, losing a child might not be the easiest thing to deal with. [/quote]

That mother lost her child because she failed them. didn’t raise them properly. It’s her and her kids fault they are dead, not some 65 year old man that got ganged up on.[/quote]

Valid point, but the authorities have to shoulder some of the blame here: the article posted by jcannon78 said that the dead kid was ordered back to school by police that same morning and had been electronically tagged. Ordered back? They should have been able to take the kids back to school, whether they wanted to or not.

This argument all seems to revolve around how responsible a 16-year-old is for their actions. If someone of that age can’t be held responsible for what they do, then it falls to the parent to be held responsible; if the parent can’t do that, the authorities need to take a heavier hand in the upbringing of the “child”, if only for the sake of innocent people who have the right to enjoy a bike ride in broad daylight without being violently attacked.

[roybot]

As a general thought, I don’t believe that what these teens were doing can be explained away by youthful naivete or inexperience. It was an act of experienced individuals: experience of the wrong kind, but experience nonetheless.

[Blackaggar]

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What exactly happens between 16 and 18 that makes someone an adult?

At 16 I had sense. I was on my way to college. When the fuck did 16 year olds become little kids in society? If you can drive a fucking car, you are old enough to THINK.[/quote]

Oh how that should be true but is not.

Before I say anything else, I must say that I do agree with the guy defending himself, but killing a teen still should not be celebrated as some people have already done, just accepted as something that needed to happen. We can’t value one life over another without more information, but the older gentleman deserved to value his over his assailants’. [/quote]

? Who is celebrating? This will likely happen LESS now that they know you can get shot for it. That’s a win win situation if you save more lives in the long run.

[/quote]

It should be noted before some bleeding heart goes off from just reading the title that the kids knocked him off the bike then tried to rob him. SO I am perfectly OK if not more than OK with them all getting shot.

I’m the kind of angry SOB that would prefer he’d missed and only shot them all in the spine so they were all paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their days. I would prefer they were 18 or over for this, but still, 16 is just old enough.

I’ll let you find out who said that. But it sure seems like celebrating to me. And did I ever say it was bad that the old man defended himself? No, I just said it wasn’t good that someone had to die for it. Imagine how the mother feels. Obviously she may not be the best parent, but either way, losing a child might not be the easiest thing to deal with. [/quote]

That mother lost her child because she failed them. didn’t raise them properly. It’s her and her kids fault they are dead, not some 65 year old man that got ganged up on.[/quote]

Valid point, but the authorities have to shoulder some of the blame here: the article posted by jcannon78 said that the dead kid was ordered back to school by police that same morning and had been electronically tagged. Ordered back? They should have been able to take the kids back to school, whether they wanted to or not.

This argument all seems to revolve around how responsible a 16-year-old is for their actions. If someone of that age can’t be held responsible for what they do, then it falls to the parent to be held responsible; if the parent can’t do that, the authorities need to take a heavier hand in the upbringing of the “child”, if only for the sake of innocent people who have the right to enjoy a bike ride in broad daylight without being violently attacked.
[/quote]

this just moreso makes me not want to have kids

[Maiden3_16]

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What exactly happens between 16 and 18 that makes someone an adult?

At 16 I had sense. I was on my way to college. When the fuck did 16 year olds become little kids in society? If you can drive a fucking car, you are old enough to THINK.[/quote]

Oh how that should be true but is not.

Before I say anything else, I must say that I do agree with the guy defending himself, but killing a teen still should not be celebrated as some people have already done, just accepted as something that needed to happen. We can’t value one life over another without more information, but the older gentleman deserved to value his over his assailants’. [/quote]

? Who is celebrating? This will likely happen LESS now that they know you can get shot for it. That’s a win win situation if you save more lives in the long run.

[/quote]

It should be noted before some bleeding heart goes off from just reading the title that the kids knocked him off the bike then tried to rob him. SO I am perfectly OK if not more than OK with them all getting shot.

I’m the kind of angry SOB that would prefer he’d missed and only shot them all in the spine so they were all paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their days. I would prefer they were 18 or over for this, but still, 16 is just old enough.

I’ll let you find out who said that. But it sure seems like celebrating to me. And did I ever say it was bad that the old man defended himself? No, I just said it wasn’t good that someone had to die for it. Imagine how the mother feels. Obviously she may not be the best parent, but either way, losing a child might not be the easiest thing to deal with. [/quote]

That mother lost her child because she failed them. didn’t raise them properly. It’s her and her kids fault they are dead, not some 65 year old man that got ganged up on.[/quote]

Valid point, but the authorities have to shoulder some of the blame here: the article posted by jcannon78 said that the dead kid was ordered back to school by police that same morning and had been electronically tagged. Ordered back? They should have been able to take the kids back to school, whether they wanted to or not.

This argument all seems to revolve around how responsible a 16-year-old is for their actions. If someone of that age can’t be held responsible for what they do, then it falls to the parent to be held responsible; if the parent can’t do that, the authorities need to take a heavier hand in the upbringing of the “child”, if only for the sake of innocent people who have the right to enjoy a bike ride in broad daylight without being violently attacked.
[/quote]

Authorities can only do so much. They have enough on their hands than to be worrying about raising kids. It’s their job to enforce the law, not raise kids that’s just impossible. This is not Minority Report where cops can prevent crimes before they happen.

If you cant hold a 16 year old resposible for trying to rob a 65 yr old man what can you hold them responsible for?

[Maiden3_16]

[quote]roybot wrote:
As a general thought, I don’t believe that what these teens were doing can be explained away by youthful naivete or inexperience. It was an act of experienced individuals: experience of the wrong kind, but experience nonetheless.[/quote]

agree

[roybot]

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What exactly happens between 16 and 18 that makes someone an adult?

At 16 I had sense. I was on my way to college. When the fuck did 16 year olds become little kids in society? If you can drive a fucking car, you are old enough to THINK.[/quote]

Oh how that should be true but is not.

Before I say anything else, I must say that I do agree with the guy defending himself, but killing a teen still should not be celebrated as some people have already done, just accepted as something that needed to happen. We can’t value one life over another without more information, but the older gentleman deserved to value his over his assailants’. [/quote]

? Who is celebrating? This will likely happen LESS now that they know you can get shot for it. That’s a win win situation if you save more lives in the long run.

[/quote]

It should be noted before some bleeding heart goes off from just reading the title that the kids knocked him off the bike then tried to rob him. SO I am perfectly OK if not more than OK with them all getting shot.

I’m the kind of angry SOB that would prefer he’d missed and only shot them all in the spine so they were all paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their days. I would prefer they were 18 or over for this, but still, 16 is just old enough.

I’ll let you find out who said that. But it sure seems like celebrating to me. And did I ever say it was bad that the old man defended himself? No, I just said it wasn’t good that someone had to die for it. Imagine how the mother feels. Obviously she may not be the best parent, but either way, losing a child might not be the easiest thing to deal with. [/quote]

That mother lost her child because she failed them. didn’t raise them properly. It’s her and her kids fault they are dead, not some 65 year old man that got ganged up on.[/quote]

Valid point, but the authorities have to shoulder some of the blame here: the article posted by jcannon78 said that the dead kid was ordered back to school by police that same morning and had been electronically tagged. Ordered back? They should have been able to take the kids back to school, whether they wanted to or not.

This argument all seems to revolve around how responsible a 16-year-old is for their actions. If someone of that age can’t be held responsible for what they do, then it falls to the parent to be held responsible; if the parent can’t do that, the authorities need to take a heavier hand in the upbringing of the “child”, if only for the sake of innocent people who have the right to enjoy a bike ride in broad daylight without being violently attacked.
[/quote]

Authorities can only do so much. They have enough on their hands than to be worrying about raising kids. It’s their job to enforce the law, not raise kids that’s just impossible. This is not Minority Report where cops can prevent crimes before they happen.
[/quote]

We’re not in Phillip K. Dick territory just yet. The dead teen was already on probation, so he was known to the police before the shooting - no pre-cogs required. The methods that were used up until then were obviously ineffective otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation…The authorities didn’t do enough.

Boundaries were set for all three teens and clearly they challenged them knowing that they would be excused because of their age. I’m not criticizing the police force so much as the underlying attitude that allowed these youths to carry on assaulting people on the same bicycle path.

The police could do nothing beyond what they were authorized to do; the parents fell short in disciplining their kids, and nobody would supercede the parents because all parents are presumed to be responsible.

The system is afraid to make people take responsibilty for parenting. There is blame on all sides: there are good parents, there are bad parents, but there are also parents who can’t control the direction in which their kids develop due to external influences : gang culture, kids parenting each other (which happens more than people would like to admit), etc…

Edit: if parents can’t stand between their offspring and the general public, then it falls to law enforcement to do it for them. The decision to make this happen lies elsewhere…

[westdale_warrior]

we live in an age of despicable moral less self indulgent youth who cling together in predatory packs. i experienced tons of asshole kids like this back in high school. they ganged up thought they had an easy mark and the old man who probably contributed more to the world than they ever would have called their bluff and stood his ground. seems to me like he nipped a problem in the bud.

if this had of gone the other way and some kid lost his grandfather by having him beaten to death by opportunistic suburban punks over 30 dollars that would be a tragedy.

as i see it the world probably just got a little tiny bit better. we have one less degenerate competing for our resources and air and the two that lived probably learned an important lesson

[ukrainian]

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What exactly happens between 16 and 18 that makes someone an adult?

At 16 I had sense. I was on my way to college. When the fuck did 16 year olds become little kids in society? If you can drive a fucking car, you are old enough to THINK.[/quote]

Oh how that should be true but is not.

Before I say anything else, I must say that I do agree with the guy defending himself, but killing a teen still should not be celebrated as some people have already done, just accepted as something that needed to happen. We can’t value one life over another without more information, but the older gentleman deserved to value his over his assailants’. [/quote]

? Who is celebrating? This will likely happen LESS now that they know you can get shot for it. That’s a win win situation if you save more lives in the long run.

[/quote]

It should be noted before some bleeding heart goes off from just reading the title that the kids knocked him off the bike then tried to rob him. SO I am perfectly OK if not more than OK with them all getting shot.

I’m the kind of angry SOB that would prefer he’d missed and only shot them all in the spine so they were all paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their days. I would prefer they were 18 or over for this, but still, 16 is just old enough.

I’ll let you find out who said that. But it sure seems like celebrating to me. And did I ever say it was bad that the old man defended himself? No, I just said it wasn’t good that someone had to die for it. Imagine how the mother feels. Obviously she may not be the best parent, but either way, losing a child might not be the easiest thing to deal with. [/quote]

That mother lost her child because she failed them. didn’t raise them properly. It’s her and her kids fault they are dead, not some 65 year old man that got ganged up on.[/quote]

Valid point, but the authorities have to shoulder some of the blame here: the article posted by jcannon78 said that the dead kid was ordered back to school by police that same morning and had been electronically tagged. Ordered back? They should have been able to take the kids back to school, whether they wanted to or not.

This argument all seems to revolve around how responsible a 16-year-old is for their actions. If someone of that age can’t be held responsible for what they do, then it falls to the parent to be held responsible; if the parent can’t do that, the authorities need to take a heavier hand in the upbringing of the “child”, if only for the sake of innocent people who have the right to enjoy a bike ride in broad daylight without being violently attacked.
[/quote]

Authorities can only do so much. They have enough on their hands than to be worrying about raising kids. It’s their job to enforce the law, not raise kids that’s just impossible. This is not Minority Report where cops can prevent crimes before they happen.
[/quote]

We’re not in Phillip K. Dick territory just yet. The dead teen was already on probation, so he was known to the police before the shooting - no pre-cogs required. The methods that were used up until then were obviously ineffective otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation…The authorities didn’t do enough.

Boundaries were set for all three teens and clearly they challenged them knowing that they would be excused because of their age. I’m not criticizing the police force so much as the underlying attitude that allowed these youths to carry on assaulting people on the same bicycle path.

The police could do nothing beyond what they were authorized to do; the parents fell short in disciplining their kids, and nobody would supercede the parents because all parents are presumed to be responsible.

The system is afraid to make people take responsibilty for parenting. There is blame on all sides: there are good parents, there are bad parents, but there are also parents who can’t control the direction in which their kids develop due to external influences : gang culture, kids parenting each other (which happens more than people would like to admit), etc…
[/quote]

Peers nowadays have more of an effect on the mental development of a teenager than parents do.

[westdale_warrior]

Thugs attack homeless man & post assault on Youtube

probably already been posted but this is the world we live in

i fear for my 72year old grandfathers life every night when he goes out to work because of pricks like this

[roybot]

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
Peers nowadays have more of an effect on the mental development of a teenager than parents do. [/quote]

True. But how do we get to that point without a considerable rise in passive parenting?

[ukrainian]

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
Peers nowadays have more of an effect on the mental development of a teenager than parents do. [/quote]

True. But how do we get to that point without a considerable rise in passive parenting? [/quote]

I have no idea. I’m not even close to being a parent.

[Deercalf]

One less scum we have to pay for. There is no doubt all those little assholes will be in prison someday.

[roybot]

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
Peers nowadays have more of an effect on the mental development of a teenager than parents do. [/quote]

True. But how do we get to that point without a considerable rise in passive parenting? [/quote]

I have no idea. I’m not even close to being a parent. [/quote]

The answer is “we don’t”

[Deercalf]

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]ukrainian wrote:
Peers nowadays have more of an effect on the mental development of a teenager than parents do. [/quote]

True. But how do we get to that point without a considerable rise in passive parenting? [/quote]

I have no idea. I’m not even close to being a parent. [/quote]

The answer is “we don’t” ;)[/quote]

I think my father would shoot me himself if I ever did something like this.

[RageInspired]

Good to see most of you are in defense of the old man. My question to those who have an issue with him defending himself as he did is, what if he didn’t have any other means to defend himself?

[zenontheterrible]

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
we live in an age of despicable moral less self indulgent youth who cling together in predatory packs. i experienced tons of asshole kids like this back in high school. they ganged up thought they had an easy mark and the old man who probably contributed more to the world than they ever would have called their bluff and stood his ground. seems to me like he nipped a problem in the bud.

if this had of gone the other way and some kid lost his grandfather by having him beaten to death by opportunistic suburban punks over 30 dollars that would be a tragedy.

as i see it the world probably just got a little tiny bit better. we have one less degenerate competing for our resources and air and the two that lived probably learned an important lesson[/quote]

i %100 agree with this.

[zenontheterrible]

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:

Thugs attack homeless man & post assault on Youtube

probably already been posted but this is the world we live in

i fear for my 72year old grandfathers life every night when he goes out to work because of pricks like this[/quote]

"Police charged 20-year-old Taylor Giresi, of Lake Como, with aggravated assault and conspiracy to commit assault. A teen they say recorded the assault faces a charge of conspiracy.
Giresi was jailed on $60,000 bail. A message sent to his Facebook page and telephone messages left at four homes in the Lake Como area registered to people with the same last name were not immediately returned Monday.

On a Facebook page that appears to Giresi’s, he claimed to be a model whose likes include the TV shows “Jersey Shore” and “Jackass” and the marijuana comedy movie “Half Baked.” On the tape, the cameraman says, “That was Jackass’ ‘Beatin’ A Bum.'”

Police didn’t disclose the identity of the teenager because of his age. He was released to the custody of his parents. Police did not immediately respond to requests for additional information, and it was unclear if other people are suspected of participating in the assault."

Video: Homeless man beaten in Wall by two laughing N.J. youths

[Chaddyboxer]

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
These jackasses have been amoung us since time immemorable. We should be finding ways to cope with the problem which are more sophisticated than arming the elderly.[/quote]

These jackasses are out in greater numbers because no one seems to understand the laws of cause and effect, or the concept of consequences.

Good on the old man - if it makes other 16 year olds think twice before assaulting senior citizens, then this is a positive societal change. There is no room for compassion for those who lack it themselves. If you decide to be so soft in life, don’t bitch about how people take advantage of you.[/quote]
Great response. I would also like to add…it was an act of self-defense. Shit…if someone was trying to hurt and rob me, I would sure as shit pull out my weapon and perhaps fire if need be.

[Chaddyboxer]

[quote]polo77j wrote:
I’m all for healthy debate and introduction to perceptions I (or you or whomever) has yet to consider…but I have a difficult time acknowledging the validity of an argument that ignores facts associated with this particular case. The posters who cast their light on one aspect in such a black and white manner (the youths age; a man shot and killed and youth of 16; etc.) don’t add anything of substance to move the discussion along.

This case is not as black and white; when taken out of context and displayed as such it can be perceived by someone who didn’t read the article as the old man as the aggressor, when, in reality, he was not. You do not do your argument any justice when you neglect to acknowledge the situation and variables the situation presents.

I agree that it’s a tragedy a young man died, however, I find all the sympathy I have for the case lies with the old man and the effects bound to arise from this encounter as well as with the youth’s family, as I’m sure they are devastated by their loss. I do not, however, have much, if any, sympathy for the deceased individual as I’m sure, based on his displayed reasoning skills and ability to executed a premeditated violent crime (yes, it was a violent crime him and his cohorts were committing. They forcibly knock over, beat, and robbed unsuspecting elderly individuals … this is a point I think those in the black and white group fail to acknowledge which would lend some semblance of credibility to their argument) had the fore-sight and comprehension to assess some level of risk involved and the consequences of such risk.

Now, we will never know what this young man might have achieved in his life, since it was cut short, nor is it relevant. What is relevant is that an innocent individual successfully defended himself using means available to him, and his aggressor, however unfortunate an individual chooses to believe it to be, is dead. I think an aspect that should acknowledged as well is how easily these young hooligans could have mortally injured their victims. Let’s not lose sight that they were targeting elderly people, and were violently attacking them to achieve their main goal of robbing them. As we all are aware, frailty of people is positively correlated with age. I.e. the older a person the easier it is to bruise, break bones, do severe damage to, etc. with less force applied than you would need to with a younger, healthier person. We could just as easily be talking about how these three punks jumped this old guy on the bike trail and killed him.[/quote]
This hits the nail on the head

[rehanb_bl]

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

Yeah, but there’s always the “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” view.

lol
[/quote]

it’s not the size of the hammer but how you swing it… uh wait what are we talking about?