I wonder if certain authorities might know where the plane is, but are keeping quiet to see what’s developing?
[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I wonder if certain authorities might know where the plane is, but are keeping quiet to see what’s developing?[/quote]
The news is pretty much the same for the past 2 days so lots of things are being explored. We are bringing specialized aircraft to the party and so are other countries. You’d be amazed at the amount of US military hardware is in foreign hands. All friendlies BTW… everything is ITAR compliant with export licensing.
Cool, you seem to really be “in the know” with these sorts of things.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
solved
http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html
[/quote]
Ahahahaha
Malaysia confirms flight was hijacked.
There are reports that the plane ascended to 45k feet, which is above the plane’s service envelope. If so, pilot may have backed himself into the bad end of the curve and the plane is now at the bottom of the sea.
Edit: I guess not. After ascending to 45k, the pilot came back down to 29k and maintained that altitude for some period of time.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/world/malaysia-confirms-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-was-hijacked/story-fndir2ev-1226855315871
Malaysia confirms flight was hijacked.
There are reports that the plane ascended to 45k feet, which is above the plane’s service envelope. If so, pilot may have backed himself into the bad end of the curve and the plane is now at the bottom of the sea.
Edit: I guess not. After ascending to 45k, the pilot came back down to 29k and maintained that altitude for some period of time.[/quote]
The plane could do 45k feet, although this is not normal. One theory is that the pilot and co-pilot were on oxygen and they took the plane that high to kill everyone in the cabin, whose oxygen supplies were limited.
The top of the service envelope is 43,100 feet. Obviously the performance envelope is higher. There’s nothing ascending to 45,000 feet would do that a pilot intent on killing the passengers couldn’t do at 38,000 feet.
The passengers O2 is limited, but the captain can disarm the system from even causing the masks to drop with the flick of a switch. Even if the masks did deploy, passengers only have O2 for 2 hours or so as the gas is generated through a chemical reaction.
Perhaps it was a struggle in cockpit that temporarily caused the plane to ascend.
Link between mass stabbings and hijacked plane?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
The top of the service envelope is 43,100 feet. Obviously the performance envelope is higher. There’s nothing ascending to 45,000 feet would do that a pilot intent on killing the passengers couldn’t do at 38,000 feet.
The passengers O2 is limited, but the captain can disarm the system from even causing the masks to drop with the flick of a switch. Even if the masks did deploy, passengers only have O2 for 2 hours or so as the gas is generated through a chemical reaction.
Perhaps it was a struggle in cockpit that temporarily caused the plane to ascend.[/quote]
I can buy into the struggle in the cockpit deal, with no oxygen crisis at all. First, something went on that disabled the ability to communicate with the outside-world. The pilot and co-pilot may have been inadvertently killed or injured, leaving the flying to the unqualified.
The climb to 45,000 feet may have been to pull the plane out of a downward path. They corrected it and turned the plane around while trying to reach ATC on the deck. Not knowing what to do, they let the plane go until it ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean.
If someone was meandering around the passenger compartment wouldn’t a quick drop beat the crap out of them? Bang them off of the ceiling a couple of times and hope everybody else had their seat belts on.
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
The plane could do 45k feet, although this is not normal. One theory is that the pilot and co-pilot were on oxygen and they took the plane that high to kill everyone in the cabin, whose oxygen supplies were limited.[/quote]
Hypoxemia occurs at %90 SaO2. You can see that even normal cruising altitude isn’t even on the chart. No need to ascend.
From a nursing website:
Oxygen travels in blood via to mechanisms:
- Bound to hemoglobin
- Dissolved in plasma
SaO2 (and its indirect measurement SpO2) describe the amount of oxygen bound to hemoglobin in arterial blood. The term “saturation” likens hemoglobin to a sponge that becomes saturated with oxygen. The measurement is given as a percentage.
PaO2 describes the amount of oxygen dissolved in arterial blood plasma. The measurement is given as a pressure value (mmHg).
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
I can buy into the struggle in the cockpit deal, with no oxygen crisis at all. First, something went on that disabled the ability to communicate with the outside-world. The pilot and co-pilot may have been inadvertently killed or injured, leaving the flying to the unqualified.
The climb to 45,000 feet may have been to pull the plane out of a downward path. They corrected it and turned the plane around while trying to reach ATC on the deck. Not knowing what to do, they let the plane go until it ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean. [/quote]
I think there was a struggle, but perhaps between the pilot and co-pilot. I think there was someone well qualified at the controls the entire time and who knew what breakers to remove to disable the transponder and sattelite identification circuits. And I’ll go back to my post yesterday and say that I think the plane is wheels down, probably somewhere in the Chinese desert.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
If someone was meandering around the passenger compartment wouldn’t a quick drop beat the crap out of them? Bang them off of the ceiling a couple of times and hope everybody else had their seat belts on.
[/quote]
Good point and only the bad guys would be up and about.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
I can buy into the struggle in the cockpit deal, with no oxygen crisis at all. First, something went on that disabled the ability to communicate with the outside-world. The pilot and co-pilot may have been inadvertently killed or injured, leaving the flying to the unqualified.
The climb to 45,000 feet may have been to pull the plane out of a downward path. They corrected it and turned the plane around while trying to reach ATC on the deck. Not knowing what to do, they let the plane go until it ran out of fuel and ditched into the ocean. [/quote]
I think there was a struggle, but perhaps between the pilot and co-pilot. I think there was someone well qualified at the controls the entire time and who knew what breakers to remove to disable the transponder and sattelite identification circuits. And I’ll go back to my post yesterday and say that I think the plane is wheels down, probably somewhere in the Chinese desert.
[/quote]
A pilot/ co-pilot struggle is a good possibility. I think that outsiders may have known how to disable enough of the electrics with a little training. Especially since the time span was sporadic, like they were looking for something.
The plane did jink around enough, but it may have been just enough to throw the authorities off the scent. Once it gets below radar level, it could go anywhere. I believe the Chinese desert was within one of the range projections I saw.
The whole search this and that corridor could be a ruse. The Malaysians are sticking with the foul play angle all the way.
That hijacking for later use is pretty scary. The cargo capacity of those things is pretty damn big. Stripped down of accessories and filled with it’s max capacity of explosives it would be a devastating weapon. I can’t really conceive of the damage that would do.
The planes that hit the twin towers and pentagon were only carrying their fuel allocation.
This would have to be a really massive operation if it was done by terrorists.
Does anyone know if Malaysian airports have as much security as the U.S. ones? I would imagine the pilot doors are locked as well.
I dunno… It just seems to be something far beyond the scale of what Al-Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist groups seem capable of.
I mean, you’d have to do at least the following-
- Subdue any and all authorities on the aircraft.
- Disable all electronics. Either kill everyone on board, or know at which altitude/region you have to fly in in order to prevent phones from working.
- Know perfectly well how to navigate very long distances (this is far harder than it sounds, iirc)
- Land the plane in an area that probably doesn’t have a decent landing strip.
- Refuel the aircraft.
- Get it back into the air
- Potentially find another place to land and refuel the aircraft.
- Vice versa…
Only in movies does things like this happen without a hitch.
Heck, the fact that this appears to have done PERFECTLY without a hitch scares the crap out of me. Any organization that can pull something like that off without a hitch scares me.
Maybe the CIA did it.
[quote]magick wrote:
I mean, you’d have to do at least the following-
-
Subdue any and all authorities on the aircraft.
-
Disable all electronics. Either kill everyone on board, or know at which altitude/region you have to fly in in order to prevent phones from working.
-
Know perfectly well how to navigate very long distances (this is far harder than it sounds, iirc)
-
Land the plane in an area that probably doesn’t have a decent landing strip.
-
Refuel the aircraft.
-
Get it back into the air
-
Potentially find another place to land and refuel the aircraft.
-
Vice versa…
[/quote] -
Assuming there were any authorities on board…
2)If a pilot/co-pilot were in on it, they would know how to disable the electronics. Consciousness would last 15 seconds at 45,000 feet once the cabin had been depressurized. There are no cell signals above water and if Asia is anything like the US, they no longer use the old-fashioned analog-type cell towers that broadcast in a sphere. US tower are angled down by 2.5 degrees and cover a very specific area. There’s no cell coverage in the air except in highly rural areas where the towers haven’t been changed over yet. -
Pilot involvement.
-
Areas of the Chinese desert are like the Bonneville Salt Flats. All you need is a dry enough lake bed. You could easily construct a runway that could survive one landing and one take off. Or use a patch of deserted highway.
5)Getting jet fuel would be difficult but certainly not impossible.
6)I think whatever the ultimate target is, is reachable without fueling a second time.
[quote]magick wrote:
I dunno… It just seems to be something far beyond the scale of what Al-Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist groups seem capable of.
[/quote]
You do realize that the planning and execution of 9/11 was years in the making and cost millions of dollars, coordinated by a well funded and pretty sophisticated group of people, right?
Flying those planes into the buildings was just a brief but very memorable part of the entire operation.