Majority of Isrealis Support Hamas Peace Talks

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Show me a government which does not condemn the Holocaust.

they condemn the Holocaust, but that just means they’re like every other Nazi. Neo-Nazis believed it happened, they just think it was on a much smaller scale than 6 million Jews. [/quote]

I agree, but I doubt the Nazis themselves would condemn their own atrocities. You mean Neo-Nazis today who try to revise history.

Or Iran, there’s one nation whose government denied the Holocaust or, like you said, the scale of it.

22

It upsets me to see such a high percentage of people thinking talking to Hamas will ease attacks. It is giving credibility and a platform for Hamas to spew their rhetoric as AHmadinejad did at Columbia.

Having peace talks with Hamas is like the Israelis having a peace talk with the “Palestinians”. History has shown no matter how much land the Israelis have given to them, the attacks do not subside. I would like to see Hamas not attack for a substantial amount of time as Egypt did to prove themselves worthy of these “talks”.

Actions speak louder than words.

23

Talk about what?

Israel: Welcome to the talks.

Hamas: We want to destroy your country.

Israel: Talks officially over.

24

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
Having peace talks with Hamas is like the Israelis having a peace talk with the “Palestinians”. [/quote]

Care ot explain the quotation marks?

25

[quote]lixy wrote:
Footsolider88 wrote:
Having peace talks with Hamas is like the Israelis having a peace talk with the “Palestinians”.

Care ot explain the quotation marks?[/quote]

Easily offended??

27

Of course the majority of Isrealis support peace talks with hamas, just like the majority of blacks, jews, homosexual, ect, would like peace talks with the KKK.

These peace talks do not mean that Hamas is going to smarten up and treat humans like their religion atcually teaches them too.

28

[quote]lixy wrote:
Footsolider88 wrote:
Having peace talks with Hamas is like the Israelis having a peace talk with the “Palestinians”.

Care ot explain the quotation marks?[/quote]

With pleasure.

"If one was to follow history, they would know that Palestine was never exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasion of the 7th century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine [it is a region not a country]…

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until AFTER the 1967 Six Day War and Israel’s capture of the West Bank". (Bard, 2002 pp.8-9)

For centuries the REGION of Palestine was barely populated, eroded and pretty much lacked adequate living conditions until the Jewish people revitalized it.

This is why “Palestinian” is in quotes. It is a region, not a country and largely a political term. It would be like a bunch of people living in the back of Walmart calling themselves “the Walmarters”

29

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
With pleasure.

"If one was to follow history, they would know that Palestine was never exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasion of the 7th century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine [it is a region not a country]…

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until AFTER the 1967 Six Day War and Israel’s capture of the West Bank". (Bard, 2002 pp.8-9)[/quote]

Holy cow! We’re now quoting the editor of AIPAC’s newsletter?

Encyclopedia Britannica begs to differ, asserting that “Arabs of Palestine had been creating and developing a Palestinian identity for about 200 years”.

[quote]For centuries the REGION of Palestine was barely populated, eroded and pretty much lacked adequate living conditions until the Jewish people revitalized it.

This is why “Palestinian” is in quotes. It is a region, not a country and largely a political term. It would be like a bunch of people living in the back of Walmart calling themselves “the Walmarters” [/quote]

I contend that “Norwegian” is “largely a political term” as well. Same thing with “South Korean”, “Brazilian” or “Sahrawi”. I will also point out that the land you reside in was “barely populated” around the 15th century and “pretty much lacked adequate living conditions” until the Western Europeans “revitalized it”, just like you claim the Chosen People did to Palestine.

So, if you don’t think Palestinian is an appropriate term, what is it that you call the millions of stateless people post U.N. resolution 181? Natives? Savages? What?

30

[quote]lixy wrote:
Footsolider88 wrote:
With pleasure.

"If one was to follow history, they would know that Palestine was never exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most of the population after the Muslim invasion of the 7th century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine [it is a region not a country]…

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until AFTER the 1967 Six Day War and Israel’s capture of the West Bank". (Bard, 2002 pp.8-9)

Holy cow! We’re now quoting the editor of AIPAC’s newsletter?

Encyclopedia Britannica begs to differ, asserting that “Arabs of Palestine had been creating and developing a Palestinian identity for about 200 years”.

For centuries the REGION of Palestine was barely populated, eroded and pretty much lacked adequate living conditions until the Jewish people revitalized it.

This is why “Palestinian” is in quotes. It is a region, not a country and largely a political term. It would be like a bunch of people living in the back of Walmart calling themselves “the Walmarters”

I contend that “Norwegian” is “largely a political term” as well. Same thing with “South Korean”, “Brazilian” or “Sahrawi”. I will also point out that the land you reside in was “barely populated” around the 15th century and “pretty much lacked adequate living conditions” until the Western Europeans “revitalized it”, just like you claim the Chosen People did to Palestine.

So, if you don’t think Palestinian is an appropriate term, what is it that you call the millions of stateless people post U.N. resolution 181? Natives? Savages? What?[/quote]

Are you kidding? Wikipedia is trying to rewrite Israeli history by leaving out important facts. It has been shown that they have anti-semitic sentiment as well. Newsletter? Please.

SO you have to go all the way back to make a very weak analogy. The difference is that they are ALL recognized OFFICIALLY. You didn’t address the point that the term Palestinian Arab nationalism IS a RECENT Post World War political movement. Not centuries.

Palestine is NOT a state it is a region, how do you call them stateless? The term Palestinian is a political term for a region.
The Peel Commission in 1937 concluded that the only logical soultion to resolving the contradictory aspirations of the Jews and Arabs was to partition the REGION of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states.

The Arabs rejected the plan because it forced them to accept the creation of a Jewish state, and required some Palestinians to live under “Jewish domination”. The Zionists opposed the Peel’s plan boundaries because they would have been confined to little more than a ghetto of 1900 out of the 10,310 square miles remaining in Palestine.

The Zionists tried to negotiate with the British but the Arabs refused any compromise.

Prior to the partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim Chrisitan Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolutionn was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. ((Yanviv, 1974, p.5)

Furthermore, “Palestinians” have recieved enormous amounts of land throught the years despite losing it during wars they started. Yet they still call for the destruction of Israel and target innocent civilians. You ever see an Israeli suicide bomber? I haven’t

We are hijacking the thread but the Palestinian (there I didn’t add quotes, happy?) issue is similar to Hamas because the Palestinians haven’t shown they are ready to live side by side with Israel. When Hamas stops their attacks, which isn’t likely, then perhaps maybe there might be discussions, but I doubt it.

31

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
Are you kidding? Wikipedia is trying to rewrite Israeli history by leaving out important facts. [/quote]

Wikipedia?

Their staff is disproportionally Jewish.

Yes newsletter! The man is the director of the Jewish Virtual Library and prominent member of AIPAC. He was also a senior analyst for George Bush. That’s enough for anyone to understand where he’s coming from.

And cut out the idiotic “anti-semitic” crap. I can quote dozens and dozens of Jews who are fiercly opposed to the man’s writings and Zionism in general.

Again, Britannica says that it’s an identity cultivated for centuries.

Because they are.

http://www.rsc.ox.ac.uk/PDFs/Shiblak.pdf

[quote]The term Palestinian is a political term for a region.
The Peel Commission in 1937 concluded that the only logical soultion to resolving the contradictory aspirations of the Jews and Arabs was to partition the REGION of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states. The Arabs rejected the plan because it forced them to accept the creation of a Jewish state, and required some Palestinians to live under “Jewish domination”. The Zionists opposed the Peel’s plan boundaries because they would have been confined to little more than a ghetto of 1900 out of the 10,310 square miles remaining in Palestine.
The Zionists tried to negotiate with the British but the Arabs refused any compromise. [/quote]

How is what some British royal commission concludes of any relevance here? What’s next? Balfour’s views?

[quote]Prior to the partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim Chrisitan Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolutionn was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. ((Yanviv, 1974, p.5) [/quote]

You do realize imperialistic powers carved up Syria, don’t you? That’s what gave the world Lebanon, Israel, Kuwait and all the other bit and pieces.

So if I understand correctly, they should thank the Lord for the generous land they “recieved”[sic], bow their heads to the occupier and forget everything about resolution 242.

Keep dreaming. You’ll have to kill every last one of them before that ever happens.

Suicide bombers, no. Homocide bombers, well…that’s a label that fits the IDF perfectly.

You still haven’t answered my question. What do you call the millions of people from that region without any sort of citizenship?

Hamas has been in power for a couple of years. The crisis is 60 years old.

And tell me, kind sir, are you Jewish?

32

Footsolider88 wrote:

Just because you hate Bush doesn’t mean this man has no cred. Strawman my friend.

Obviously you haven’t heard of Rabbi Micahel Lerner - the radical Jewish nutjob who is Pro Palestinian and assoicates with extreme groups. Jewish people are opposed to Jewish people with idiotic views!!

Cultivated? Post Word War One political movement.
Israelis/Jews cultivated this region.

Interesting you didn’t address the above statement.The Mandate for Palestine included the Balfour declaration. It referred to the “historic connections of the Jewish people with Palestine”. The word Arab does not appear in the Mandatory Award. It was formed by 52 governmentets at the League of Nations. (Bard, 2002, p.10)

Prior to the partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim Chrisitan Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolutionn was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. ((Yanviv, 1974, p.5)

In 1937 a local arab leader, AUni Bey Abdul-Hadi told the Peel Commission which ultimateluy suggested the partition of Palestine: “THere is no such country {as Palestine}! Palestine is a term the Zionists invented! THere is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for CENTURIES part of Syria.” (Jerusalem Post, NOvember 2, 1991)There is your word centuries from way up top.

Palestine
Furthermore, “Palestinians” have received enormous amounts of land throughout the years despite losing it during wars they started. Yet they still call for the destruction of Israel and target innocent civilians.

This resolution (242) does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. It also doesn’t specify how much land is to be given up. The Security COuncil didn’t say “all territories” occupied after the SIx Day War. THe Arab states pushed for the word all but it was rejected.

The resoultion clearly calls on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from “territories occupied” in 1967. Israel withdrew from approximately 93 percent of the terrirotories. It has already partially if not wholly fulfilled its obligation. Remember, part of that resolution was the “right to live free from threats or acts of force”

Palestinans are sure doing a lot of threatening and attacking aren’t they? “destruction of Israel” and other past Arafat gems. The word “occupied” has been hijacked by those who view Israel in the harshest light. The more accurate word is disputed territories.

Interesting moral relativism but certainly a failed one. Palestinians target innocent civilians. Israelis don’t. Israelis treat wonded Palestinians, Palestinians don’t.

Ahh now you admit it is a region. They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse to accept that.

[…]issue is similar to Hamas because the Palestinians haven’t shown they are ready to live side by side with Israel. When Hamas stops their attacks, which isn’t likely, then perhaps maybe there might be discussions, but I doubt it.

Ahh the race card, such a noble tactic for debate. History is History and if you don’t like it, don’t keep challenging me on my points. As I pointed out earlier, I fault SOME Jewish people such as radical Rabbi Lerner who don’t know their history, feel guilty for being Jewish and associate with extreme groups (google that, and he isn’t even a real rabbi - he is a hack)as he did and I fault the Israeli government for being too patient and giving up land to people who haven’t shown they have interest in ending their attacks and targeting civilians.

Do you fault the Palestinians for killing innocent civilians? I don’t care what your race but if you answer with yes but, then I don’t know what else to say.

They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse that.

Those who are trying to rewrite history are not changing it.

Again, you choose to keep hijacking the thread rather than ending our disagreement.

33

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
Footsolider88 wrote:

Just because you hate Bush doesn’t mean this man has no cred. Strawman my friend.

Obviously you haven’t heard of Rabbi Micahel Lerner - the radical Jewish nutjob who is Pro Palestinian and assoicates with extreme groups. Jewish people are opposed to Jewish people with idiotic views!!

Cultivated? Post Word War One political movement.
Israelis/Jews cultivated this region.

Interesting you didn’t address the above statement.The Mandate for Palestine included the Balfour declaration. It referred to the “historic connections of the Jewish people with Palestine”. The word Arab does not appear in the Mandatory Award. It was formed by 52 governmentets at the League of Nations. (Bard, 2002, p.10)

Prior to the partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim Chrisitan Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolutionn was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds. ((Yanviv, 1974, p.5)

In 1937 a local arab leader, AUni Bey Abdul-Hadi told the Peel Commission which ultimateluy suggested the partition of Palestine: “THere is no such country {as Palestine}! Palestine is a term the Zionists invented! THere is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for CENTURIES part of Syria.” (Jerusalem Post, NOvember 2, 1991)There is your word centuries from way up top.

Palestine
Furthermore, “Palestinians” have received enormous amounts of land throughout the years despite losing it during wars they started. Yet they still call for the destruction of Israel and target innocent civilians.

This resolution (242) does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. It also doesn’t specify how much land is to be given up. The Security COuncil didn’t say “all territories” occupied after the SIx Day War. THe Arab states pushed for the word all but it was rejected.

The resoultion clearly calls on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from “territories occupied” in 1967. Israel withdrew from approximately 93 percent of the terrirotories. It has already partially if not wholly fulfilled its obligation. Remember, part of that resolution was the “right to live free from threats or acts of force”

Palestinans are sure doing a lot of threatening and attacking aren’t they? “destruction of Israel” and other past Arafat gems. The word “occupied” has been hijacked by those who view Israel in the harshest light. The more accurate word is disputed territories.

Interesting moral relativism but certainly a failed one. Palestinians target innocent civilians. Israelis don’t. Israelis treat wonded Palestinians, Palestinians don’t.

Ahh now you admit it is a region. They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse to accept that.

[…]issue is similar to Hamas because the Palestinians haven’t shown they are ready to live side by side with Israel. When Hamas stops their attacks, which isn’t likely, then perhaps maybe there might be discussions, but I doubt it.

Ahh the race card, such a noble tactic for debate. History is History and if you don’t like it, don’t keep challenging me on my points. As I pointed out earlier, I fault SOME Jewish people such as radical Rabbi Lerner who don’t know their history, feel guilty for being Jewish and associate with extreme groups

(google that, and he isn’t even a real rabbi - he is a hack)as he did and I fault the Israeli government for being too patient and giving up land to people who haven’t shown they have interest in ending their attacks and targeting civilians.

Do you fault the Palestinians for killing innocent civilians? I don’t care what your race but if you answer with yes but, then I don’t know what else to say.

They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse that.

Those who are trying to rewrite history are not changing it.

Again, you choose to keep hijacking the thread rather than ending our disagreement.

[/quote]

pwnage on lixy

34

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
Footsolider88 wrote:
Just because you hate Bush doesn’t mean this man has no cred. Strawman my friend. [/quote]

The man has cred alright. As far as Zionists go, he’s one of the staunchest around.

Huh? So people opposing discrimination and racism have “idiotic views”?

Twist it any way you want, Zionists are hardcore supremacists.

And your point is…?

A Zionist newspaper quoting an imperialist royalist commission where the quotee can’t be bothered to hold a position. Notice how he speaks of “our country” one sentence after claiming “there is no such country”.

[quote]This resolution (242) does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. It also doesn’t specify how much land is to be given up. The Security COuncil didn’t say “all territories” occupied after the SIx Day War. THe Arab states pushed for the word all but it was rejected.

The resoultion clearly calls on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from “territories occupied” in 1967. Israel withdrew from approximately 93 percent of the terrirotories. It has already partially if not wholly fulfilled its obligation. Remember, part of that resolution was the “right to live free from threats or acts of force” [/quote]

Screw the Arab states! This is about the plights of millions of people which started with Zionists moving in en masse to the region.

And what of the right of refugees to return home?

Disputed is when both sides are more or less on equal footing. When an army is occupying a land where 100% of people are opposed to, it’s a clear-cut occupation. Also, Israel regularly violates the sovereignty of plenty of states bordering it.

I suppose they figured that trowing stones at military members in full gear wasn’t very effective.

What would you do in their position?

True. But then again, Palestinians can’t even treat wounded Palestinians.

They have squat! Jordan hands them temporary passports (valid for two years), but no citizenship.

The what now?

Yeah, I get it. Everyone who doesn’t share your views has to be a self-loathing brainwashed idiot.

I could name hundreds of Jews who are vehemently opposed to, if not Zionism, then at least to the way the Zionist state treats the Palestinians.

Sure.

That said, I do believe in causality, and I certainly understand the desperation they face. How do you propose they resist the occupier? With flowers?

Again, they don’t. Revise your “facts”.

Besides, I can’t say I blame them for not wanting to be serfs of the Jordanian king.

How is this hijacking the thread? The OP pointed out that the bulk of Israelis support direct talks with Hamas. Plenty of Americans (sitting in New York hint hint) think they know better than Israelis. What we are debating is the very relevant to this thread.

And for the record, I would have never replied to your first post had you not put Palestinians in quote. You have yet to tell us what term you deem more appropriate for these people anyway.

Understand that what we are doing here is debate. That is, you give an argument and I counter it and so on, and so forth. You don’t have to think of it as “disagreement”, because none of us is likely to change his/her mind. But we might end up learning new things - if nothing else, get an insight into the other side’s mind.

35

Footsolider88 wrote:

If staunch you mean knowing ALL of history and showing how wrong some of these nutjobs like Rabbi Lerner are then you are absolutley right. I guess Keith Olberman is a staunch journalist right?

Racism? What the heck are you talking about? Nice twisting my words but you obviously don’t know who Rabbi Lerner is. His views are idiotic because he refuses to accept All of history, he chooses to pick and choose what he likes. And rather than support history, he chooses to ignore it.

What are palestinians and terrorists? Freedom fighters as Arafat called them? Please. Seriously? supremacists? you are really showing your true colors

My point is that you don’t know how to address points and the second is that you are ignoring histroy and other ETHNIC GROUPS actually saying there was NO COUNTRY PALESTINE. I know truth hurts but try to accept it.

THis wasn’t a newspaper, sorry. Yes because the country he is referring to is part of Syria. Not a separate entity as the political movement is trying to make you think. And if it was truly their country, why was it abandoned and not taken care of until these “awful” Jews revitalized it during the early part of the century.

The representative of the Arab HIgher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said “Palestine was part of the Province of Syria” and that “politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political enitity” (Yaniv, 1974, p5)

Again, history my friend.

Plight? It wouldn’t be a plight if the Arab countries actually accepted them and considered them citizens but they don’t because history has shown they are NOT a separate entity. In fact a census was taken, actually a couple and it was found that 650,000 Palestinian Arabs lived there and another (UNN Mediator on Palestine) arrived at an even lower figure - 472,000 and only about 360,000 required aid. (“Progress Report on the United Nations Mediator on Palestine” submitted to the Secretary General for Transmission to the Members of the United Nations, General Assembly Official Records, Third Session Supplement Number 11, 1948)

What about the Jews who fled the Arab states? The number of Jews fleeing the Arab countries following the years following Israel’s independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Those refugees had no desire to be repatriated. But little is heard because they went to Israel and resettled wihtout any offer of recompensation from the Arab government. Israel has maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day Arab states refused.

The US occupied Japan after WWII. There is no country that Israel is occupying. NO COUNTRY. NO one was there before, it was barren land. Most of the Arabs countries refuse them. How much land does Israel have compared to the other Arab countries? A SPECK!. Look at a map and you’ll see.

Stones? LEt me throw a stone at you and tell me if it hurts. How about boulders, how about rockets and other weapons provided by Hamas.

Not target civilians that’s for damn sure.

Israelis treat wonded Palestinians, Palestinians don’t.

ANd the Palestinians don’t treat wounded Israelis either.

Ahh now you admit it is a region. They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse to accept that.

They have been given billions of aid and Arafat pocketed that. Whose fault is that? Israel? Please

Asking me if I was Jewish is playing the race card. I am not even interested in your cause or race.

ANd I think your view is is that anyone who is Jewish doesn’t know the facts or is biased but I have provided more facts and sources than you have. Read a book and then lift some weights.
.

I could name 100s more who don’t just listen to the media and read books and dispute these myths you are spewing
Do you fault the Palestinians for killing innocent civilians?

Ahh so you couldn’t just answer with Sure, I knew it. THe desperation if anything is with Israel because again if you look on a map, the land they have compared to other Arab countries is a speck and the Arab countries don’t want to accept the “Palestinians”. History is history, if you don’ tlike it, leave it.
They have citizenship in Jordan but they refuse that.

They do and can, stop trying to rewrite history.

That’s not Israelis fault that they don’t want to be part of Jordan. Thank you.

Again, you choose to keep hijacking the thread rather than ending our disagreement.

ANd plenty of Europeans (hint hint) who trash Israel any chance they get think they know better. I understand that anti-semitism is alive and well out there in Europe.

Well it’s good you repled, now you perhaps learned a little more.

It is debate but you are claiming that my facts were biased and bringing race into the mix. I didn’t do that with you. There are many non-Jewish folks out there who say the same thing as well as Arabs and Muslims as I pointed out above. This has nothing to do with race, this has to do with history.

If Ronnie Coleman was a historian…“everybody wants to be a historian, but nobody wants to read heavy ass books.”

I’m still trying to learn how to use this quote feature so forgive me for not including your statements as well.

36

[quote]Footsolider88 wrote:
If staunch you mean knowing ALL of history and showing how wrong some of these nutjobs like Rabbi Lerner are then you are absolutley right. I guess Keith Olberman is a staunch journalist right? [/quote]

Staunch Zionist means that he is relentless in his attempts to justify the Zionist adventure. The man is paid to do propaganda, for heaven’s sake.

By quoting him, you shouldn’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

At the core of the Zionist ideology, is the idea that a bunch of people have superior divine rights by virtue of their religion or race.

That’s what the heck I am talking about.

For crying out loud! Why are you clinging to this Lerner fellow as if he was the only Jew out there opposed to Zionism?

History shows that Zionists plotted to take over a piece of land in the Middle-East to establish a discriminative state, and they achieved that by depossessing the locals of their lands and other means of violence. There’s nothing to ignore here. The root cause of the conflict is evident to anyone with a couple of brain cells.

Funny you should associate “palestinians”[sic] with “terrorists”, and then fake outrage over the use of the term “supremacist”.

Well…sad really.

Whovever said there ever was a “COUNTRY PALESTINE”? I sure didn’t!

You keep building up these strawmen in your head.

The Jerusalem Post is a newspaper. And I won’t apologize for your ignorance.

Let me guess…that guy was on the Syrian payroll?

Allow me then to quote an official statement of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

[i]
"a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

              "b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

              c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate wit the said commission.

              d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled the believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet wit any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

              e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.

              f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

              g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

                    "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out �?? man women and child.[/i]

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/796f8bc05ec4f30885256cef0073cf3a/fdf734eb76c39d6385256c4c004cdba7!OpenDocument

Again, I don’t give a rat’s ass about any illegitimate government in any Arab country, much less the ones that were still colonized.

And your point would be…?

It’s sad, but the causality is unambiguous.

And if you ask me, the worst is yet to come. You wait until the Arabs become a demographic majority and watch!

Yeah, yeah. “A land without people for a people without a land”. We get it!

Save that speech for someone who might fall for it.

Gee…I wonder why?

I, for one, wouldn’t want a bunch of broke-ass people driven away from their lands at gunpoint in my country. It’s a recipe for disaster. Just ask the Lebanese.

Again, how on Earth are “the other Arab countries” relevant to a discussion about the people made refugees by Israel?

This is about Palestinians, not Egyptians or Syrians.

Sticks and stones can break your bones. Tanks and jet-fighters will annihilate you beyond repair.

And Hamas is a recent phenomenon.

Root cause, my dim-witted friend. Root cause.

[quote]Asking me if I was Jewish is playing the race card. I am not even interested in your cause or race.

ANd I think your view is is that anyone who is Jewish doesn’t know the facts or is biased but I have provided more facts and sources than you have. [/quote]

I know my fair share of Jewish people who denounce Zionism and Israel’s actions. I asked because you seemed very concerned about the topic. To the point where you started to make arguments in your head, then knocked them down.

And I bet you could! But see, you’ll have to name Palestinians for this to work.

Keep up, kid.

This is getting ridiculous. We’re back to square one.

I’ll ask you for the last time (and if my count is right, that’s the third time), what term do you use when referring to the millions of people stuck in Gaza, the refugees, etc? If you’re opposed to the use of Palestinians, then surely you must have something in mind.

This is not history. This is a present day fact. In 1988, Jordan severed relations with the West Bank and stopped giving out citizenship to Palestinians. And I can’t say I blame them either. There is currently a majority of Palestinians in the country.

Actually, it is. Without Israel, we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place. The Palestinians would still be farming their lands, and if they wanted a state, they could have claimed one.

Here we go again. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

Classic!

Well, if you can name hundreds of Palestinians siding with the Zionist side, then you’d have a case.

[quote]If Ronnie Coleman was a historian…“everybody wants to be a historian, but nobody wants to read heavy ass books.”

I’m still trying to learn how to use this quote feature so forgive me for not including your statements as well. [/quote]

Must be all those “heavy ass books” getting in the way of your learning.

37

[quote]bluefloyd wrote:

pwnage on lixy

[/quote]

Methinks Lixy has the upperhand here…or seems so to me, but then again I don’t know much about this topic.

One thing I have never understood - and still don’t understand - is what possible justification could there have been to establish a Jewish state on land that was occupied by a people (however disorganized they were or were not; and who cares, anyway? - they still lived there, right?) How can we argue about the current state of affairs without looking back at this context? It always seems rather strange to me that the Jews - of all people - aren’t and weren’t sensitive to this point. Anyway, carry on boys.

38

Footsolider88 wrote:
If staunch you mean knowing ALL of history and showing how wrong some of these nutjobs like Rabbi Lerner are then you are absolutley right. I guess Keith Olberman is a staunch journalist right?

Staunch Zionist means that he is relentless in his attempts to justify the Zionist adventure. The man is paid to do propaganda, for heaven’s sake.

By quoting him, you shouldn’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

You don’t speak for everyone. I don’t tell people who they should take seriously, I leave it up to them. You are not the know it all of all things nor do I claim to be. If you notice, I haven’t just been quoting him and he has included other sources as well. But of course they aren’t valid according TO YOU because he is JEWISH.

You must be getting paid quite a bundle by the PLO for your replies as well right? That was a legitimate cause right?

At the core of the Zionist ideology, is the idea that a bunch of people have superior divine rights by virtue of their religion or race.

What is the core of the Palestinian ideology? Destroy Israel and infidels? Yeah nice try.

Nice twisting my words but you obviously don’t know who Rabbi Lerner is. His views are idiotic because he refuses to accept All of history, he chooses to pick and choose what he likes. And rather than support history, he chooses to ignore it.

For crying out loud! Why are you clinging to this Lerner fellow as if he was the only Jew out there opposed to Zionism?

I am not clinging, just giving you one example but don’t cry out loud, it is not very attractive. But obviously you agree he is a nutjob right?

History shows that Zionists plotted to take over a piece of land in the Middle-East to establish a discriminative state, and they achieved that by depossessing the locals of their lands and other means of violence. There’s nothing to ignore here. The root cause of the conflict is evident to anyone with a couple of brain cells.

History also shows that the Palestinians are a political movement and not a country and that the Jews defeated them in countless wars the Paelstinians as well as Lebanon, Syria and a host of other countries started yet they still give up land that was officially recognized as theirs. Violent? Please, they have negotiated and negotiated and arafat refused and refused.
What are palestinians and terrorists? Freedom fighters as Arafat called them? Please. Seriously? supremacists? you are really showing your true colors

Funny you should associate “palestinians”[sic] with “terrorists”, and then fake outrage over the use of the term “supremacist”.

That is what they are called by the media and Arafat, funny you don’t dispute that.

My point is that you don’t know how to address points and the second is that you are ignoring histroy and other ETHNIC GROUPS actually saying there was NO COUNTRY PALESTINE. I know truth hurts but try to accept it.

Whovever said there ever was a “COUNTRY PALESTINE”? I sure didn’t!

Exactly because there isn’t one.

You keep building up these strawmen in your head.

No I am lighting your strawmen on fire and burning them.

His wasn’t a newspaper, sorry.

The Jerusalem Post is a newspaper. And I won’t apologize for your ignorance.
AHh now you are calling me ignorant. You are a magnificent debater. Have I called you names? Nope. The source where I am getting this from is not a newspaper. DO some research and check it.

The representative of the Arab HIgher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said “Palestine was part of the Province of Syria” and that “politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political enitity” (Yaniv, 1974, p5)

Let me guess…that guy was on the Syrian payroll?

Allow me then to quote an official statement of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

[i]
"a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

Yes because they want all the land and can’t and will not live side by side with Israel.

              "b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

Notice it didn’t say ASrab country. That’s because it is a REGION. NOT a country and it was never all Arab as I pointed out but you ignore that.
c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate wit the said commission.

RIght because they want ALL The land despite losing it and not being theirs in the first place. They were defeated. Last time I checked if someone lost a war the winners didn’t give up the land they earned.

              d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled the believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet wit any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

Misled? Isreal wasn’t even allowed a voice back then.
e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
Un Prestige? Ha that is hilarious. The UN is a joke. How did they handle RWANDA?
f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

Of course they will oppose it. They are trying to rewrite history

              g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

                    "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out �?? man women and child.[/i]

THis rehtoric plain and simple and there is the ideology you are talking about. Wiping out man women and child. That is logic? That is sound reasoning? I would like to see where the ISraelis say that. Sounds like Hitler all over againn. It is no wonder Mein Kampf was read by many in that region. History has shown that the UN has been totally unfair to Israel with its respect towards delegations. Palestinians have had a voice where historically Israel has not.

Plight? It wouldn’t be a plight if the Arab countries actually accepted them and considered them citizens but they don’t because history has shown they are NOT a separate entity.

Again, I don’t give a rat’s ass about any illegitimate government in any Arab country, much less the ones that were still colonized.
You also don’t give a rat’s ass about history apparently.

In fact a census was taken, actually a couple and it was found that 650,000 Palestinian Arabs lived there and another (UNN Mediator on Palestine) arrived at an even lower figure - 472,000 and only about 360,000 required aid. (“Progress Report on the United Nations Mediator on Palestine” submitted to the Secretary General for Transmission to the Members of the United Nations, General Assembly Official Records, Third Session Supplement Number 11, 1948)

And your point would be…?

Distortions by a politcial movement and YOU.

What about the Jews who fled the Arab states? The number of Jews fleeing the Arab countries following the years following Israel’s independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Those refugees had no desire to be repatriated. But little is heard because they went to Israel and resettled wihtout any offer of recompensation from the Arab government. Israel has maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day Arab states refused.

It’s sad, but the causality is unambiguous.

That’s all you got, wow.
And if you ask me, the worst is yet to come. You wait until the Arabs become a demographic majority and watch!

They are a majority in the MIddle East. Look at a map!!!
The US occupied Japan after WWII. There is no country that Israel is occupying. NO COUNTRY. NO one was there before, it was barren land.

Yeah, yeah. “A land without people for a people without a land”. We get it!

Save that speech for someone who might fall for it.

You don’t get it. JAPAN is A COUNTRY. It is like Petoria in family guy. I do hope you watch Family guy. BEST SHOW EVER.
Most of the Arabs countries refuse them.

Gee…I wonder why?

Probably because they are a political movement and anti-semitic and they can’t live side by side with Israelis.
I, for one, wouldn’t want a bunch of broke-ass people driven away from their lands at gunpoint in my country. It’s a recipe for disaster. Just ask the Lebanese.

The Lebanese? Great example of another country involved in safe havens for terrorists and anti-semitism.

How much land does Israel have compared to the other Arab countries? A SPECK!. Look at a map and you’ll see.

Again, how on Earth are “the other Arab countries” relevant to a discussion about the people made refugees by Israel?

They wouldn’t be refugees if the Arab countries accepted them just as ISrael accepted the Jewish refugees. See that?
This is about Palestinians, not Egyptians or Syrians.

But the Syrians help with terrorist activies but that is getting off track.
Stones? LEt me throw a stone at you and tell me if it hurts. How about boulders, how about rockets and other weapons provided by Hamas.

Sticks and stones can break your bones. Tanks and jet-fighters will annihilate you beyond repair.

But they don’t target the innocent civilians. Again we are going in circles.
And Hamas is a recent phenomenon.
Please, they are very relevant.

They have been given billions of aid and Arafat pocketed that. Whose fault is that? Israel? Please

Root cause, my dim-witted friend. Root cause.

Dim witted? SO you admit that has nothing to do with the ISraelis. Please admit Arafat did not help the Palestinians.
Asking me if I was Jewish is playing the race card. I am not even interested in your cause or race.

ANd I think your view is is that anyone who is Jewish doesn’t know the facts or is biased but I have provided more facts and sources than you have.

I know my fair share of Jewish people who denounce Zionism and Israel’s actions. I asked because you seemed very concerned about the topic. To the point where you started to make arguments in your head, then knocked them down.

Ah the ol some of my best friends are…routine. Doesn’t hold up, sorry. I provided many different non-Jewish statements to refute your statements
I could name 100s more who don’t just listen to the media
and read books and dispute these myths you are spewing

And I bet you could! But see, you’ll have to name Palestinians for this to work.

Palestinian media? Hmmm you mean like false injuries and bollywood shams that pretend Israel is attacking them. Planted ambulances and stuff like that. Yeah Plaestinians are very reliable sources.

Keep up, kid.

You are the kid.
Ahh so you couldn’t just answer with Sure, I knew it. THe desperation if anything is with Israel because again if you look on a map, the land they have compared to other Arab countries is a speck and the Arab countries don’t want to accept the “Palestinians”. History is history, if you don’ tlike it, leave it.

This is getting ridiculous. We’re back to square one.

I’ll ask you for the last time (and if my count is right, that’s the third time), what term do you use when referring to the millions of people stuck in Gaza, the refugees, etc? If you’re opposed to the use of Palestinians, then surely you must have something in mind.

Syrians? Jordanians. There ya go, there ya go there ya go (PEter Griffin style)

They do and can, stop trying to rewrite history.

This is not history. This is a present day fact. In 1988, Jordan severed relations with the West Bank and stopped giving out citizenship to Palestinians. And I can’t say I blame them either. There is currently a majority of Palestinians in the country.

Where are the other countries? Where is the help? Arab countries don’ t them any aid, the US provides most of the aid. And there are Palestinians in Israel just in case you were wondering.
That’s not Israelis fault that they don’t want to be part of Jordan. Thank you.

Actually, it is. Without Israel, we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place. The Palestinians would still be farming their lands, and if they wanted a state, they could have claimed one.
Yes and the Palestinians wish there was no Israel and like Iran, they want them off the map. Get it?
ANd plenty of Europeans (hint hint) who trash Israel any chance they get think they know better. I understand that anti-semitism is alive and well out there in Europe.

Here we go again. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

Classic!

So why did you ask for my race if you are not trying to be anti-semitic especially if the two are exclusive? CLASSIC!!!

It is debate but you are claiming that my facts were biased and bringing race into the mix. I didn’t do that with you. There are many non-Jewish folks out there who say the same thing as well as Arabs and Muslims as I pointed out above. This has nothing to do with race, this has to do with history.

Well, if you can name hundreds of Palestinians siding with the Zionist side, then you’d have a case.

If you can show me Palestinians willing to live side by side with ISrael that would be an even better case.
If Ronnie Coleman was a historian…“everybody wants to be a historian, but nobody wants to read heavy ass books.”

I’m still trying to learn how to use this quote feature so forgive me for not including your statements as well.

Must be all those “heavy ass books” getting in the way of your learning.

OOOOOH good one. What a gem. You couldn’t even help me with the quote feature. What a decent guy you are.

39

Footsolider88 wrote:
If staunch you mean knowing ALL of history and showing how wrong some of these nutjobs like Rabbi Lerner are then you are absolutley right. I guess Keith Olberman is a staunch journalist right?

Staunch Zionist means that he is relentless in his attempts to justify the Zionist adventure. The man is paid to do propaganda, for heaven’s sake.

By quoting him, you shouldn’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

You don’t speak for everyone. I don’t tell people who they should take seriously, I leave it up to them. You are not the know it all of all things nor do I claim to be. If you notice, I haven’t just been quoting him and he has included other sources as well. But of course they aren’t valid according TO YOU because he is JEWISH.

You must be getting paid quite a bundle by the PLO for your replies as well right? That was a legitimate cause right?

At the core of the Zionist ideology, is the idea that a bunch of people have superior divine rights by virtue of their religion or race.

What is the core of the Palestinian ideology? Destroy Israel and infidels? Yeah nice try.

Nice twisting my words but you obviously don’t know who Rabbi Lerner is. His views are idiotic because he refuses to accept All of history, he chooses to pick and choose what he likes. And rather than support history, he chooses to ignore it.

For crying out loud! Why are you clinging to this Lerner fellow as if he was the only Jew out there opposed to Zionism?

I am not clinging, just giving you one example but don’t cry out loud, it is not very attractive. But obviously you agree he is a nutjob right?

History shows that Zionists plotted to take over a piece of land in the Middle-East to establish a discriminative state, and they achieved that by depossessing the locals of their lands and other means of violence. There’s nothing to ignore here. The root cause of the conflict is evident to anyone with a couple of brain cells.

History also shows that the Palestinians are a political movement and not a country and that the Jews defeated them in countless wars the Paelstinians as well as Lebanon, Syria and a host of other countries started yet they still give up land that was officially recognized as theirs. Violent? Please, they have negotiated and negotiated and arafat refused and refused.
What are palestinians and terrorists? Freedom fighters as Arafat called them? Please. Seriously? supremacists? you are really showing your true colors

Funny you should associate “palestinians”[sic] with “terrorists”, and then fake outrage over the use of the term “supremacist”.

That is what they are called by the media and Arafat, funny you don’t dispute that.

My point is that you don’t know how to address points and the second is that you are ignoring histroy and other ETHNIC GROUPS actually saying there was NO COUNTRY PALESTINE. I know truth hurts but try to accept it.

Whovever said there ever was a “COUNTRY PALESTINE”? I sure didn’t!

Exactly because there isn’t one.

You keep building up these strawmen in your head.

No I am lighting your strawmen on fire and burning them.

His wasn’t a newspaper, sorry.

The Jerusalem Post is a newspaper. And I won’t apologize for your ignorance.
AHh now you are calling me ignorant. You are a magnificent debater. Have I called you names? Nope. The source where I am getting this from is not a newspaper. DO some research and check it.

The representative of the Arab HIgher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said “Palestine was part of the Province of Syria” and that “politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political enitity” (Yaniv, 1974, p5)

Let me guess…that guy was on the Syrian payroll?

Allow me then to quote an official statement of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation:

[i]
"a. The Arabs of Palestine will never recognize the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.

Yes because they want all the land and can’t and will not live side by side with Israel.

              "b. The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power or group of powers to establish a Jewish State in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense by force.

Notice it didn’t say ASrab country. That’s because it is a REGION. NOT a country and it was never all Arab as I pointed out but you ignore that.
c. It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate wit the said commission.

RIght because they want ALL The land despite losing it and not being theirs in the first place. They were defeated. Last time I checked if someone lost a war the winners didn’t give up the land they earned.

              d. The United Nations or its commission should not be misled the believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet wit any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.

Misled? Isreal wasn’t even allowed a voice back then.
e. The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
Un Prestige? Ha that is hilarious. The UN is a joke. How did they handle RWANDA?
f. The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.

Of course they will oppose it. They are trying to rewrite history

              g. The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.

                    "The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out �?? man women and child.[/i]

THis rehtoric plain and simple and there is the ideology you are talking about. Wiping out man women and child. That is logic? That is sound reasoning? I would like to see where the ISraelis say that. Sounds like Hitler all over againn. It is no wonder Mein Kampf was read by many in that region. History has shown that the UN has been totally unfair to Israel with its respect towards delegations. Palestinians have had a voice where historically Israel has not.

Plight? It wouldn’t be a plight if the Arab countries actually accepted them and considered them citizens but they don’t because history has shown they are NOT a separate entity.

Again, I don’t give a rat’s ass about any illegitimate government in any Arab country, much less the ones that were still colonized.
You also don’t give a rat’s ass about history apparently.

In fact a census was taken, actually a couple and it was found that 650,000 Palestinian Arabs lived there and another (UNN Mediator on Palestine) arrived at an even lower figure - 472,000 and only about 360,000 required aid. (“Progress Report on the United Nations Mediator on Palestine” submitted to the Secretary General for Transmission to the Members of the United Nations, General Assembly Official Records, Third Session Supplement Number 11, 1948)

And your point would be…?

Distortions by a politcial movement and YOU.

What about the Jews who fled the Arab states? The number of Jews fleeing the Arab countries following the years following Israel’s independence was nearly double the number of Arabs leaving Palestine. Those refugees had no desire to be repatriated. But little is heard because they went to Israel and resettled wihtout any offer of recompensation from the Arab government. Israel has maintained that any agreement to compensate the Palestinian refugees must also include Arab compensation for Jewish refugees. To this day Arab states refused.

It’s sad, but the causality is unambiguous.

That’s all you got, wow.
And if you ask me, the worst is yet to come. You wait until the Arabs become a demographic majority and watch!

They are a majority in the MIddle East. Look at a map!!!
The US occupied Japan after WWII. There is no country that Israel is occupying. NO COUNTRY. NO one was there before, it was barren land.

Yeah, yeah. “A land without people for a people without a land”. We get it!

Save that speech for someone who might fall for it.

You don’t get it. JAPAN is A COUNTRY. It is like Petoria in family guy. I do hope you watch Family guy. BEST SHOW EVER.
Most of the Arabs countries refuse them.

Gee…I wonder why?

Probably because they are a political movement and anti-semitic and they can’t live side by side with Israelis.
I, for one, wouldn’t want a bunch of broke-ass people driven away from their lands at gunpoint in my country. It’s a recipe for disaster. Just ask the Lebanese.

The Lebanese? Great example of another country involved in safe havens for terrorists and anti-semitism.

How much land does Israel have compared to the other Arab countries? A SPECK!. Look at a map and you’ll see.

Again, how on Earth are “the other Arab countries” relevant to a discussion about the people made refugees by Israel?

They wouldn’t be refugees if the Arab countries accepted them just as ISrael accepted the Jewish refugees. See that?
This is about Palestinians, not Egyptians or Syrians.

But the Syrians help with terrorist activies but that is getting off track.
Stones? LEt me throw a stone at you and tell me if it hurts. How about boulders, how about rockets and other weapons provided by Hamas.

Sticks and stones can break your bones. Tanks and jet-fighters will annihilate you beyond repair.

But they don’t target the innocent civilians. Again we are going in circles.
And Hamas is a recent phenomenon.
Please, they are very relevant.

They have been given billions of aid and Arafat pocketed that. Whose fault is that? Israel? Please

Root cause, my dim-witted friend. Root cause.

Dim witted? SO you admit that has nothing to do with the ISraelis. Please admit Arafat did not help the Palestinians.
Asking me if I was Jewish is playing the race card. I am not even interested in your cause or race.

ANd I think your view is is that anyone who is Jewish doesn’t know the facts or is biased but I have provided more facts and sources than you have.

I know my fair share of Jewish people who denounce Zionism and Israel’s actions. I asked because you seemed very concerned about the topic. To the point where you started to make arguments in your head, then knocked them down.

Ah the ol some of my best friends are…routine. Doesn’t hold up, sorry. I provided many different non-Jewish statements to refute your statements
I could name 100s more who don’t just listen to the media
and read books and dispute these myths you are spewing

And I bet you could! But see, you’ll have to name Palestinians for this to work.

Palestinian media? Hmmm you mean like false injuries and bollywood shams that pretend Israel is attacking them. Planted ambulances and stuff like that. Yeah Plaestinians are very reliable sources.

Keep up, kid.

You are the kid.
Ahh so you couldn’t just answer with Sure, I knew it. THe desperation if anything is with Israel because again if you look on a map, the land they have compared to other Arab countries is a speck and the Arab countries don’t want to accept the “Palestinians”. History is history, if you don’ tlike it, leave it.

This is getting ridiculous. We’re back to square one.

I’ll ask you for the last time (and if my count is right, that’s the third time), what term do you use when referring to the millions of people stuck in Gaza, the refugees, etc? If you’re opposed to the use of Palestinians, then surely you must have something in mind.

Syrians? Jordanians. There ya go, there ya go there ya go (PEter Griffin style)

They do and can, stop trying to rewrite history.

This is not history. This is a present day fact. In 1988, Jordan severed relations with the West Bank and stopped giving out citizenship to Palestinians. And I can’t say I blame them either. There is currently a majority of Palestinians in the country.

Where are the other countries? Where is the help? Arab countries don’ t them any aid, the US provides most of the aid. And there are Palestinians in Israel just in case you were wondering.
That’s not Israelis fault that they don’t want to be part of Jordan. Thank you.

Actually, it is. Without Israel, we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place. The Palestinians would still be farming their lands, and if they wanted a state, they could have claimed one.
Yes and the Palestinians wish there was no Israel and like Iran, they want them off the map. Get it?
ANd plenty of Europeans (hint hint) who trash Israel any chance they get think they know better. I understand that anti-semitism is alive and well out there in Europe.

Here we go again. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

Classic!

So why did you ask for my race if you are not trying to be anti-semitic especially if the two are exclusive? CLASSIC!!!

It is debate but you are claiming that my facts were biased and bringing race into the mix. I didn’t do that with you. There are many non-Jewish folks out there who say the same thing as well as Arabs and Muslims as I pointed out above. This has nothing to do with race, this has to do with history.

Well, if you can name hundreds of Palestinians siding with the Zionist side, then you’d have a case.

If you can show me Palestinians willing to live side by side with ISrael that would be an even better case.
If Ronnie Coleman was a historian…“everybody wants to be a historian, but nobody wants to read heavy ass books.”

I’m still trying to learn how to use this quote feature so forgive me for not including your statements as well.

Must be all those “heavy ass books” getting in the way of your learning.

OOOOOH good one. What a gem. You couldn’t even help me with the quote feature. What a decent guy you are.

40

Footsoldier - this is impossible to follow without quotes.

The “words” between these two doo-dads will be quoted (nb, I’ve spelled quote wrong on purpose so you can see what I mean):

[qoute] word word word [/qoute]