I know it seams far fetched and absolutely no evidence to prove it but doesnt there appear to be a correlation ? Look at how many in this forum alone have posted that they work out , lift weights , etc. and develop low T
I for one have lifted for years even struggling through low t - it would be interesting to see just how many of us lifted hard in our early teens and early twenties (steroid free) and then end up with this later in life while you have guys that never lifted a weight etc. and have normal T levels
Said it best yourself: far-fetched and absolutely no evidence to prove it. Also, you’re confusing correlation with causation.
OP: You’re on a website that caters to people who lift weights. Who did you expect to find on here, people who crochet? Perhaps vegetable gardeners?
If you were to go to a knitting website that had an HRT section, would you find it curious that the people who have low T levels also knit?
I don’t lift weights (yet, though I did when I was a teenager) and am an avid vegetable gardener, who prides himself on near-prize-winning peppers. Stereotypes be damned!
The aging process causes low T, not weightlifting. I’ll be 65 next month and have been diagnosed with low T through blood work by my urologist/surgeon. I had prostate cancer surgery in Dec 2010 and all the followup PSAs were zero (good!) But the T level was below normal (not good).
I’ve started Stronglifts 5x5 in May and have been steadily progressing in my squats (200x5x3), deads (240x5x3), bench (too embarrassed to mention -shoulder injury).
The uro guy will put me on TRT if I want. I’ve been hesitating due to the prostate cancer history, but have been seeing more positive articles from reputable medical sources. Think I’ll do it and see how it goes.
There’s even a school of thought shared by some leading urologists that the low T as we age is a causative factor for prostate cancer, rather than the other way around.
Cheers!
Bob
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
OP: You’re on a website that caters to people who lift weights. Who did you expect to find on here, people who crochet? Perhaps vegetable gardeners?
If you were to go to a knitting website that had an HRT section, would you find it curious that the people who have low T levels also knit?[/quote]
lol
this reminds me of the time T-Nation took over that knitting forum and trolled the shit out of it. True story.
Since this thread sucks, I may try to get it back on track and link to the old threads documenting the knitter trolling.
[quote]DAVIDINSC wrote:
I know it seams far fetched and absolutely no evidence to prove it but doesnt there appear to be a correlation ? Look at how many in this forum alone have posted that they work out , lift weights , etc. and develop low T
I for one have lifted for years even struggling through low t - it would be interesting to see just how many of us lifted hard in our early teens and early twenties (steroid free) and then end up with this later in life while you have guys that never lifted a weight etc. and have normal T levels[/quote]
DAVIDINSC, you are actually on to something!
Generally speaking, overtraining causes low Testosterone. And its easier to do than guys think…
Fitness is basically related to liver function. When you exercise, your liver receives hormone messages that tell it which enzymes to pump out. There are indeed optimal parameters for liver enzyme synthesis, and they are largely governed by genetics. If all one does is anaerobic work (ie. weight training), the synthesis of aerobic enzymes will down-regulate. Multiplied over the course of years, it is possible that bioenergetic efficiency can get super screwed up. Low testosterone is usually a symptom of either false endocrine signaling (i.e… hormone disruptors) or problems with metabolism (either from lifestyle or intrinsic endocrine problems; ie. hypothyroidism). In this way, chronic, obsessive resistance training (even with adequate nutrition) can in fact disrupt the testosterone axis.
Not a far fetched theory afterall 
It’s the other way around.
I’ve always had a good bod, and never lifted weights. But with age comes extra pounds and sluggish performance, so I went to the gym and got nowhere for years. It wasn’t the workouts, which weren’t anything much to talk about, it was the age and decreasing T.
But now with exogenous T and estrogen control, I look and feel good again. My workouts actually do something. I’m losing the weight and putting on the muscle, shooting your theory to Hell.
[quote]bmxer109 wrote:
[quote]DAVIDINSC wrote:
I know it seams far fetched and absolutely no evidence to prove it but doesnt there appear to be a correlation ? Look at how many in this forum alone have posted that they work out , lift weights , etc. and develop low T
I for one have lifted for years even struggling through low t - it would be interesting to see just how many of us lifted hard in our early teens and early twenties (steroid free) and then end up with this later in life while you have guys that never lifted a weight etc. and have normal T levels[/quote]
DAVIDINSC, you are actually on to something!
Generally speaking, overtraining causes low Testosterone. And its easier to do than guys think…
Fitness is basically related to liver function. When you exercise, your liver receives hormone messages that tell it which enzymes to pump out. There are indeed optimal parameters for liver enzyme synthesis, and they are largely governed by genetics. If all one does is anaerobic work (ie. weight training), the synthesis of aerobic enzymes will down-regulate. Multiplied over the course of years, it is possible that bioenergetic efficiency can get super screwed up. Low testosterone is usually a symptom of either false endocrine signaling (i.e… hormone disruptors) or problems with metabolism (either from lifestyle or intrinsic endocrine problems; ie. hypothyroidism). In this way, chronic, obsessive resistance training (even with adequate nutrition) can in fact disrupt the testosterone axis.
Not a far fetched theory afterall
[/quote]
Over-training syndrome is real although not in the way you are suggesting. Also since cells have no way of storing ATP they must make the exact amount required to support its energy demands moment to moment. Because of this the regulation of ATP production is tightly controlled at the individual cell level with individual cells being responsible for transcribing and translating the appropriate levels of enzymes required for either anaerobic or aerobic respiration - the liver does not provide these enzymes unless you’re just talking about supplying cells with macronutrients which of course the liver does influence via interconversion of AA, glucose and FFA.
Now a healthy liver IS important and training can influence liver glycogen storage, blood flow, processing of cholesterol and fats, etc.
Great post bmxer! Lets just all stop working out and be like the rest of the fat ass americans, who I’m sure have no hormone issues to speak of.
Think I missed your point reading on the toilet this morning. While it’s true energy metabolism is regulated at the cellular level it also true that the substrates needed for anaerobic or aerobic respiration are often provided by the liver.
Furthermore, I wanted to add that you’re absolutely correct that liver health is probably one of the most important in determining overall health. Many think of the liver as just a detox organ but the the literature seems to really point to the liver as a great indicator of overall health. None-alcoholic fatty liver disease is a growing problem with the obesity epidemic and the matter driving cause of many of the issues associated with obesity.
As soon as I changed my diet and increased exercise the first number to respond was my ALT came right down into the middle of the range…I feel really good and no doubt this has a lot to do with it.
[quote]dbsmith wrote:
Think I missed your point reading on the toilet this morning. While it’s true energy metabolism is regulated at the cellular level it also true that the substrates needed for anaerobic or aerobic respiration are often provided by the liver.
Furthermore, I wanted to add that you’re absolutely correct that liver health is probably one of the most important in determining overall health. Many think of the liver as just a detox organ but the the literature seems to really point to the liver as a great indicator of overall health. None-alcoholic fatty liver disease is a growing problem with the obesity epidemic and the matter driving cause of many of the issues associated with obesity.
As soon as I changed my diet and increased exercise the first number to respond was my ALT came right down into the middle of the range…I feel really good and no doubt this has a lot to do with it.
[/quote]
Yes, the liver is THE key organ in regulating long term metabolic health. The top killers in the western world are Heart Disease, Cancer, Stroke, Diabetes, Alzheimer’s and Dementia; all of which are linked to Chronic Low Grade Inflammation. In a [very] short nutshell, the liver is critical for regulating your body’s acid-base balance, and it does this incredible job based on genetics, and inflammatory stimuli (ie. exercise). The problem with our culture, is that everywhere we look we see Obesity. So, what’s our natural response? WORKOUT AND DIET! The problem here, of course, is the basic concept of balance. Obesity is being caused by far more than simply bad american habits… The calories-in, calories out model is out of date. We, as a nation, are essentially suffering from chronic slow liver failure on microscopic levels. Low testosterone is simply one piece of data in a profoundly complex puzzle.