@systemlord I don’t know what planet you’re from and why you continue to state that I’m just pulling stuff out of my ass as my own ‘personal experience’. I don’t get it. I’ve seen TONS of cases of men needing more than 30 ng/dL of free T. TONS and TONS and TONS. I see it almost DAILY. I don’t know if you’re living under a rock or pick and choose which posts to comment on. Do you have ANY idea how many men I deal with in a given day? Our videos on YouTube have been viewed over a half million times. Any idea how many of those guys have found me through email, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn or anything else they can think of? I’ve seen over 2000 labs at this point. I always ask them to follow up with me and get back to me. I speak with the physicians in our group on a daily basis and they are constantly bringing me up to speed as to stuff they are seeing in their own practice.
What are you even talking about? Do you not see how unbelievably narrow-minded you are? If anyone makes a judgement based on personal experience, it is YOU with your micro-dosing that does NOT by ANY stretch of the imagination work on the majority of men out there. We’re talking MAYBE 2%? Maybe? I can count on one hand how many I’ve seen like you yet your entire approach is based on this. Can you take a step back, realize how unbelievably ridiculous this is, and realize that there is a whole WORLD of men out there?
@hardartery what you just mentioned is actually my primary concern here. I don’t know if there is anything out there that can measure this… to keep an eye on it, so to speak. It’s the only reason I wouldn’t do this long term because we simply don’t know, and it isn’t so far outside of the realm of possibility that the heart WILL grow with supra-physiologic levels of T.
@systemlord there are currently 2027 members in my FB group. We decline over 90% of the people who try to join because they don’t answer the questions when signing up which demonstrates that they aren’t really all that interested.
Create a fake facebook profile, make a post in there, and ask how many of them are micro-dosing like you are. You will find 2 out of 2027. Go do that and then report your findings here. If you don’t want to do this to prove your argument, then you are absolutely talking out of your ass.
Tell you what: I’ll do it for you. I will make a poll and then screenshot the findings here.
I never said micro-dosing at my levels worked for tons of men, I said there are more of us out there than you realize. Mark Gordon is my example, a lot of his patients are micro-dosing 40-80mg weekly and doing very well.
I said I don’t see many men requiring levels at 30 ng/dL on T-Nation or Excelmale, two of the most frequented forums out there. I’ve been on T-Nation for 3 years and the majority of these men do very well <1000 ng/dL.
You can create your own poll here. Ensure that it is for men who are SYMPTOM FREE and that dose is irrelevant. We are talking about Free Testosterone levels specifically.
Most of the guys who will need levels 1000> are men with high SHBG, otherwise Free T between 20-26 pg/mL is more than sufficient. This is what Dr. Saya is seeing in his practice as well and he see more patients than you can imagine, 10,000+ cases and counting.
Putting a poll like that on T-Nation where there’s a mix of TRT+AAS users, the results will be tainted. I bet if you did the same poll over on Excelmale you would get different results.
@systemlord this is the dumbest post you’ve made to date.
My SHBG is 18-20 on every test. Meanwhile…? I’m one person right there that breaks your rule. To say “these numbers are more than sufficient” demonstrates a complete lack of understanding as to how this stuff works. I already have poll results coming in. Want to see them or should I wait for more to come in?
Your poll is seriously bias towards the higher end, look at how Free T starts within range at 15, but goes all the way to 29 which is supraphysiological. Then you have 30-39 ng/dL, 50-59 ng/dL, seriously?
You know a study was done where men not on TRT were asked whether they feel any signs of androgen deficiency or not before these men knew their freeT levels.
They interviewed 1822 men in the Boston area and 181 men of the 1822 had freeT levels below 5 ng/dl.
Out of those 181 men, 70 men previously reported any signs of androgen deficiency whereas 111 men reported previously not to have/feel any sign of androgen deficiency.
Comparable results were obtained in another study in which around 50% of men with a freeT level of 5 ng/dl were asymptomatic.
Ive done up to 750mg of test a week. I bench 180kg, deadlift 280kg and squat 230kg. I do not feel at all like a “king” on those doses, I feel sluggish, and cock is dead, libido is gone. I do feel very very self assured tho, that is true, and women come on to me all the time for some reason.
However, I feel MUCH BETTER with MUCH BETTER libido at 70mg a week, and strenght is the same.
Like I said, other underlying problems. You something else going on. The only time I heard whining during my competition days was when the guys were NOT on those high doses.
No, no underlying problems. The “underlying problem” IS the dosage, for me. Again, when on low dosages - I feel great.
I also felt OK on 266ng/dl natty levels, with strong erections and decent libido, and I build a great physique with those levels.
Upping my levels high simply does make me feel bad.
High testosterone is not for everyone, we are individuals with different set of genetics, some are way more sensitive to androgens and have “stronger” receptors for different hormones.
Untrueee!!! However I should distinguish a distinct correlation between optimal and what’s required for homeostasis/medical practicality. For optimisation, many men can and will push upwards of 1000ng/dl, sometimes even upwards of 1500ng/dl…
@systemlord you can’t take this poll seriously? I state almost all the time that MOST MEN feel better with their free T OVER 30.
Here are the current numbers:
0-14 2 men
15-29 21 men
30-39 22 men
40-49 6 men
50-59 3 men
60+ 20 men
74 men responded and less than THIRTY PERCENT had symptom resolution with free T under 30 and over SEVENTY PERCENT had symptom resolution with free T over 30.
But I guess I made this up, right? This poll will keep going into tomorrow for sure.
@systemlord you don’t take anything seriously unless it comes out of your own mouth. We get that.
Tell you what: YOU PICK the ranges of the poll and I’ll gladly create a NEW poll for guys to answer. I don’t see what difference that makes in the slightest.
My TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 labs all fall exactly in the middle of the clinical ranges. I’ve been experimenting with thyroid, off and on, but frankly not seeing much in regards to benefits. I’ve tried low doses as well as higher doses. Higher doses just give me elevated heart rate and blood pressure.
