Low Carb and Ammonia Smell

Bigger Stronger Leaner Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
1

Hi CT,

I’m on a low carb diet and I just added 20 minutes of fasted carido in the morning (fast walking on an incline). I take 10 gram of BCAA when I wake up, just before the cardio.

By the end of the cardio session, I can smell an ammonia odor or it can even smell like cat pee. I did search on google and found it may be caused by Amico Acid and protein breakdown or the low carb diet.

In any case, I want to know if it’s happening because I’m in a catabolic state and if my body is breaking down my muscle for energy. It never happen with weight lifting, in the evening.

Thanks,

Alex

2

[quote]ALX wrote:
Hi CT,

I’m on a low carb diet and I just added 20 minutes of fasted carido in the morning (fast walking on an incline). I take 10 gram of BCAA when I wake up, just before the cardio.

By the end of the cardio session, I can smell an ammonia odor or it can even smell like cat pee. I did search on google and found it may be caused by Amico Acid and protein breakdown or the low carb diet.

In any case, I want to know if it’s happening because I’m in a catabolic state and if my body is breaking down my muscle for energy. It never happen with weight lifting, in the evening.

Thanks,

Alex[/quote]

You are probably in a catabolic state. Any diet that is deficient in energetic nutrients (carbs or fat) can become catabolic if a lot of training is being performed.

How is your fat intake? A lot of people who use a low carbs diet consume too little fat. Since they lack a dietary energy source, they will often breakdown amino acids for energy.

3

Around 2800-3000 calorie a day, can be a little bit more or less. I did not count carbs and calorie from veggie (broccoli and spinach)

Fat: 204 gram (60% of cal)
Protein: 268 gram (36% of cal) (220 gram from protein and 50 gram from BCAA and I did count 0 calorie from BCAA)
Carbs: 5 gram (3% of cal)

I only added cardio this week, hopefully not much harm has been done.

The only thing I drink before/while doing the cardio session in the morning is 10 gram of BCAA in 16 once of water

4

[quote]ALX wrote:
oh no…

Around 2800-3000 calorie a day, can be a little bit more or less. I did not count carbs and calorie from veggie (broccoli and spinach)

Fat: 204 gram (60% of cal)
Protein: 268 gram (36% of cal) (220 gram from protein and 50 gram from BCAA and I did count 0 calorie from BCAA)
Carbs: 5 gram (3% of cal)

I only added cardio this week, hopefully not much harm has been done.

The only thing I drink before/while doing the cardio session in the morning is 10 gram of BCAA in 16 once of water
[/quote]

What does your total daily fluid intake look like?

5

[quote]Mutsanah wrote:

[quote]ALX wrote:
oh no…

Around 2800-3000 calorie a day, can be a little bit more or less. I did not count carbs and calorie from veggie (broccoli and spinach)

Fat: 204 gram (60% of cal)
Protein: 268 gram (36% of cal) (220 gram from protein and 50 gram from BCAA and I did count 0 calorie from BCAA)
Carbs: 5 gram (3% of cal)

I only added cardio this week, hopefully not much harm has been done.

The only thing I drink before/while doing the cardio session in the morning is 10 gram of BCAA in 16 once of water
[/quote]

What does your total daily fluid intake look like?[/quote]

Between 6 and 8 liter of water and a cup or 2 of coffee.

6

I would add the low carb diet I’m doing is an altered Anabolic Diet one, with 1-2 cheats meals on friday instead of the classic 2 days and I put more focus on healthy fat than saturated one.

7

you are running on basically all aminos first thing in the morning. After eating a protein and fat meal, does the smell subside? It sounds like you are making a shit load of ketones. Low carb diets seem to be quite protein sparing if calories arent too low, so maybe a bit of emphasis on fat if the smell is all day.

8

“From where” do you smell? (Breath, sweat, etc) How long have you been on this diet? You’re not a vegetarian or anything, are you? Have you ever gone low carb before? Anything wrong with your urine? (Smell, colour, etc)

And just to make sure: you know the difference between acetone and ammonia, right?

Edit: And if you keep having these symptoms, you should see a doctor. Ammonia is toxic for the brain and if anything else than your urine smells, you could have elevated levels in your blood.

9

[quote]UB07 wrote:
After eating a protein and fat meal, does the smell subside? [/quote]
No as soon as I eat my breakfast, the smell get away.

[quote]kakno wrote:
“From where” do you smell? (Breath, sweat, etc)
[/quote]
The nose, deep in my nose after the cardio. When weight training, it also happen quite often that my sweet and my clothe smell like cat pee after training (sweet), not as strong as cat pee, but you get the idea. I drink 40 gram of BCAA while training.

[quote]kakno wrote:
How long have you been on this diet?
[/quote]
2 months

[quote]kakno wrote:
Have you ever gone low carb before?
[/quote]
yes

[quote]kakno wrote:
Anything wrong with your urine? (Smell, colour, etc)
[/quote]
No

[quote]kakno wrote:
And just to make sure: you know the difference between acetone and ammonia, right?
[/quote]
Not really, how does one smell vs the other, how do they compare?

[quote]kakno wrote:
Edit: And if you keep having these symptoms, you should see a doctor. Ammonia is toxic for the brain and if anything else than your urine smells, you could have elevated levels in your blood.
[/quote]
Those symptom last only 10 minutes after my cardio session in the morning, if I do no cardio at all, I don’t have them. This morning I did skip the cardio session (I don’t want to catabolize my muscle) and had no symptom at all.

10

Man, it must be acetone smell… because of ketosis. As it also comes from your breath. A diabetic man’s breath also smells acetone. Smell some acetone, the one that women use to remove the paint from their nails, and tell if it is the same. So much ketosis that your breath smells, is not good as it drops your blood PH. I wouldn’t recomend it for more than three weeks.

Even if its amonia, it’s still no good, as amonia its toxic, and thaths why mostly converts to urea that is quite inactive substance.
Change your diet. (and excuse my english)

11

[quote]ALX wrote:

[quote]UB07 wrote:
After eating a protein and fat meal, does the smell subside? [/quote]
No as soon as I eat my breakfast, the smell get away.

[quote]kakno wrote:
“From where” do you smell? (Breath, sweat, etc)
[/quote]
The nose, deep in my nose after the cardio. When weight training, it also happen quite often that my sweet and my clothe smell like cat pee after training (sweet), not as strong as cat pee, but you get the idea. I drink 40 gram of BCAA while training.

[quote]kakno wrote:
How long have you been on this diet?
[/quote]
2 months

[quote]kakno wrote:
Have you ever gone low carb before?
[/quote]
yes

[quote]kakno wrote:
Anything wrong with your urine? (Smell, colour, etc)
[/quote]
No

[quote]kakno wrote:
And just to make sure: you know the difference between acetone and ammonia, right?
[/quote]
Not really, how does one smell vs the other, how do they compare?

[quote]kakno wrote:
Edit: And if you keep having these symptoms, you should see a doctor. Ammonia is toxic for the brain and if anything else than your urine smells, you could have elevated levels in your blood.
[/quote]
Those symptom last only 10 minutes after my cardio session in the morning, if I do no cardio at all, I don’t have them. This morning I did skip the cardio session (I don’t want to catabolize my muscle) and had no symptom at all.[/quote]

As the poster above me said, it would make sense if the smell was acetone. Which one breathes out, so if the smell comes from deep inside your nose it makes sense. (Fat is metabolized to acetyl CoA → acetoacetyl CoA → HMG CoA → acetoacetate → ammonia)

I’m no good at describing smells and I also suggest that you learn what acetone smells like. Girls use it to remove nail polish and men use it to clean brushes. So the hardware store or the cosmetics section in any other store.

And for comparison, a local powerlifter might have some ammonia.

If the smell turns out to be ammonia (not acetone), you might want to visit a doctor. Your liver and kidneys should be able to take care of all that ammonia, and if they don’t, something might be wrong with them. And they are quite important organs for bodybuilders, so even if you can hide the symptom (by not doing cardio on this diet) you might still have the illness (impaired liver or kidney). This paragraph is only relevant if the smell is ammonia.

12

Sorry I made an error, it’s not like ammonia, but like acetone. I just smell the product my girl friend use to remove paint and its the dry rugged odor of acetone that I’m smelling.

Since it stopped once I eat my breakfast, would you wonder? From what I understand it’s a normal side effect of being in ketosis?

13

CT,

With this new info (fat in diet and acetone smell, not ammonia), would you still think being in a catabolic sate while I’m doing my cardio as a possibility?

14

[quote]ALX wrote:
CT,

With this new info (fat in diet and acetone smell, not ammonia), would you still think being in a catabolic sate while I’m doing my cardio as a possibility?[/quote]

Yes it is a possibility. As I mentioned, any diet that represents a caloric deficit is potentially catabolic.

As far as the acetone smell, it is fairly common during a ketosis state (brought on by the low carbs). The smell will obviously be more pronounced when sweating profusely. A female bodybuilder I train actually had that smell just sitting there and doing nothing during the last 2 weeks of her prep!

While not necessarily representative of a catabolic state, it is certainly a sign of bad things to come. Maybe you are so eager to transform your body (perfectly understandable) that you are using excessive measures, either training or nutrition-wise.

If it’s amonia, ANACONDA or MAG-10 pre-cardio could help. The citruline malate in ANACONDA and MAG-10 helps fight amonia, which is one of the reasons why it helps with recovery.

15

OP,

I feel your pain, I’ve been in ketosis for 31 days with only 2 carbs ups in that period…and suffer from the bad breath side effect. I’m brushing my teeth 3x times a day, using a tongue scraper, and carry a mini bottle of mouth wash when I go out in social situations. It still comes back.

However I’ve gone from 230 to 217.5lb in that time.

16

Good to see that you’re healthy!

17

U used to get it before whenever I went too long without carbs. Now I can have less than 30g a day and not have the ammonia smell (ketosis) even after two weeks. Maybe I have adapted and the body is more efficient at burning bodyfat, not aminos?

I have been eating low-carb for…7-8 years now.

18

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]ALX wrote:
CT,

With this new info (fat in diet and acetone smell, not ammonia), would you still think being in a catabolic sate while I’m doing my cardio as a possibility?[/quote]

Yes it is a possibility. As I mentioned, any diet that represents a caloric deficit is potentially catabolic.

As far as the acetone smell, it is fairly common during a ketosis state (brought on by the low carbs). The smell will obviously be more pronounced when sweating profusely. A female bodybuilder I train actually had that smell just sitting there and doing nothing during the last 2 weeks of her prep!

While not necessarily representative of a catabolic state, it is certainly a sign of bad things to come. Maybe you are so eager to transform your body (perfectly understandable) that you are using excessive measures, either training or nutrition-wise.

If it’s amonia, ANACONDA or MAG-10 pre-cardio could help. The citruline malate in ANACONDA and MAG-10 helps fight amonia, which is one of the reasons why it helps with recovery.[/quote]

Thank you for your time CT, I just ordered MAG-10.

19

Christian,

I’m looking to try the ANACONDA Protocol 2 while being on the Anabolic Diet. If I remember (I could be wrong), you said it could be ok if I limit the carbs to those in Surge workout fuel and if I don’t go crazy on the weekend with the refeed. I’m pretty strict with my carbs intake and I’m looking forward to have a refeed every 2 weeks instead every weekend.

20

i just realized i have been experiencing the same thing, i dont know if its ammonia or acetone, is either good or bad?