[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.[/quote]
Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.
Christianity was not responsible for modern science.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.[/quote]
Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.
Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]
Except that without the catholic church we would know nothing about Aristotle.
The knowledge,the texts, and the language itself has been preserved by catholics monks and would have been lost without them.
Actually, all this knowledge was almost forgotten circa 800 CE.
The Church saved it, inherited it and expanded on it.
You (and I) can think whatever you want about the Catholic Church, the above is still an historical fact.
[quote]kamui wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.[/quote]
Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.
Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]
Except that without the catholic church we would know nothing about Aristotle.
The knowledge,the texts, and the language itself has been preserved by catholics monks and would have been lost without them.
Actually, all this knowledge was almost forgotten circa 800 CE.
The Church saved it, inherited it and expanded on it.
You (and I) can think whatever you want about the Catholic Church, the above is still an historical fact.
[/quote]
Preserving something is much different than developing it. The pagan Greeks invented reason, developed the formal sciences of logic, philosophy, mathematics and rhetoric.
As well, based on the image BC posted, it appears as though the religion itself deserves credit for the scientific method (ReligiON)? I’m sure you can see that crediting the religion of the inventor without any actual link is absurd. I could point to many aspects of pagan religion that contributed to the rise of science (it’s increasing commitment to religious and intellectual freedom, its reliance on evidence and reason over scriptural and institutional authority, its devotional interest in nature and the stars), but it doesn’t follow that ONLY paganism can have these attributes.
The inventors of formal geometry were polytheists… does that mean polytheism caused the invention of formal geometry, or even more absurdly, that ONLY polytheists could invent it?
ZEB,
Did I say I was against the voucher system? The answer is no, I did not. I did point out that a voucher system may end up lowering private schools performance a bit, simply because the factors that help private schools excel may be impacted negatively. Of course that may also end up in raising some public school performance as well.
And by the way your analogy is awful, me choosing private school for my kids is not an indictment of the public schools, surely you’re able to see the difference. If I buy a Toyota I am not saying that all other cars are “less than” a Toyota, it is just that a Toyota suits my needs the best, someone else may be better suited with a Jeep or a Ford etc. everyone needs to make their own choice based on their own circumstance.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
More issues:
Teaching to the test.
Lowered standards to make sure all students “succeed.”
Inability to administer any real punishment in the classroom the results in disruptive, disrespectful kids who destroy the atmosphere and ability to learn for the kids who actually want to.
General focus upon crap that really is not all that important at the expense of more appropriate material.
But yeah, I’m sure I’m totally wrong and like, teh evolution, and stuff.
[/quote]
Pretty good list. I’ll throw in Administration issues (maybe Steely or someone already said that?).
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,
Did I say I was against the voucher system?[/quote]
NOT THE POINT–PAY ATTENTION!!
You spill your liberal babble all over T Nation and when someone calls you on it you do the twist and turn…
But if you buy a Toyota and say I like it better because it is more spacious than a Jeep you are in fact making a comparison just as you compared public schools to the fancy private school that you send your kids to. My gosh do you ever read your posts before you hit send?
You’re just another liberal hypocrite!
ZEB,
“It was a spectacular example of liberal hypocrisy which you and your wife practice. YOU WROTE that the classes were over crowded- NOT ME Simple Simon. You whined about the public schools, you and your wife don’t like the public schools you gave ample reasons why. If that’s not an indictment what is IDIOT?”
- Is that what I did? I didn’t write that the classes were overcrowded, I mentioned that my particular Catholic school has smaller classes, I like that for my kids, and I value that above many of the things that they offer at the public school (more technology, more extra-curriculars, after school programs, clubs etc). It was not a criticism ZEB, it was one of the reasons I made my choice.
You stated that me and my liberal friends vote against vouchers, well I don’t, never have, never said I didn’t like vouchers, if you don’t want me to address it, don’t mention it.
“But if you buy a Toyota and say I like it better because it is more spacious than a Jeep you are in fact making a comparison just as you compared public schools to the fancy private school that you send your kids to. My gosh do you ever read your posts before you hit send?”
- Did you read this nonsense you wrote? If I say something is better for me, it doesn’t mean I think something else is bad, I prefer Diet Pepsi to Diet Coke, did I really just condemn people everywhere to drink Diet Coke? Do you not see that choosing one thing is not a condemnation of the things you don’t choose? As dumb as you are ZEB I’m sure even you can see that.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.[/quote]
Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.
Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]
Wasn’t it 1976 when the Catholic church finally admitted that Galileo was right?
Now to claim that the church…the CHURCH…is responsible for science and human advancement??
Mind = blown.
The church hates science because science challenges the fairy tales that used to entrance people. Unfucking believable…
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
More issues:
Teaching to the test.
Lowered standards to make sure all students “succeed.”
Inability to administer any real punishment in the classroom the results in disruptive, disrespectful kids who destroy the atmosphere and ability to learn for the kids who actually want to.
General focus upon crap that really is not all that important at the expense of more appropriate material.
But yeah, I’m sure I’m totally wrong and like, teh evolution, and stuff.
[/quote]
Pretty good list. I’ll throw in Administration issues (maybe Steely or someone already said that?).
[/quote]
Yea, the whole lowering standards thing is my biggest gripe with the system. That’s what happens though when you base success on graduation rates and not proficiency. It’s like when they tossed around the idea of merit pay for teachers in NJ. What do you think would happen if a teacher is paid based on their students grades? How many do you think would fail? In NJ we have a propensity to believe that throwing money at any problem fixes it. That’s why we have Abbott districts. Spend extra money because that apparently fixes problems. At least in LA they are trying to actually combat a problem instead of blindly throwing money at it and wondering why it didn’t work. I really hope that program works out there.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,
I didn’t write that the classes were overcrowded, I mentioned that my particular Catholic school has smaller classes, I like that for my kids, and I value that above many of the things that they offer at the public school (more technology, more extra-curriculars, after school programs, clubs etc). It was not a criticism ZEB, it was one of the reasons I made my choice.[/quote]
You are not only a hypocrite but disingenuous as well.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
I could send my kids to public school where my district has roughly 35 kids in a class, a class that contains kids with learning disabilities, behavior issues etc[/quote]
In the above you complained of overcrowding. You then went on to whine about your little darlings being placed in classes with GASP…kids with disabilities! and even behavior issues! Oh my gosh…Maybe you think those kids should have been aborted. Is that why you’re for abortion B r i a n?
Either way you said it…now you’re trying to duck it. Nothing new here you do this all over the board. Puke out your nonsensical liberal thoughts then when you’re called on it try to lick them back up.
You’re pathetic B r i a n…
Sure B r i a n I believe that you are pro voucher system. I don’t think that you wrote that line because I called you out on it. Not at all nope…
Funny how you are for every nutty liberal idea from homosexual marriage to abortion and everything in between. But you’re pro vouchers…I see…uh huh…
[quote]“But if you buy a Toyota and say I like it better because it is more spacious than a Jeep you are in fact making a comparison just as you compared public schools to the fancy private school that you send your kids to. My gosh do you ever read your posts before you hit send?”
- Did you read this nonsense you wrote? If I say something is better for me, it doesn’t mean I think something else is bad, I prefer Diet Pepsi to Diet Coke, did I really just condemn people everywhere to drink Diet Coke? Do you not see that choosing one thing is not a condemnation of the things you don’t choose? As dumb as you are ZEB I’m sure even you can see that.
[/quote]
It was YOU who made the comparison between public and private schools. It was not just about choosing, it was about making a comparison and then choosing. And by the way that’s pretty much the way everyone chooses idiot. Now let me refresh your very poor memory. And straighten out your liberal logic
YOU said that YOU don’t like the teacher student ratio in public schools. And YOU said that YOU don’t like the fact that there are kids with disabilities in those classes. And YOU said that YOU didn’t like kids with behavior problems in those public school classes. And that’s why YOU put YOUR kids in a private school.
You made comparisons, and then YOU made YOUR choice.
The old liberal twist and turn is not going to work for you anywhere on this board B r i a n. A smarter man would have seen that by now.
And if I were you I would not be calling anyone else “dumb” you can’t even remember what you write two posts back.
But you have added another title to hypocrite, you are now disingenuous as well.
ZEB,
Seriously, you are a fucking joke. If you can’t accept anything outside your worldview I couldn’t give less of a shit. I didn’t criticize kids with disabilities you dope, or behavior issues, I never said I don’t like them I pointed out that my district has larger class sizes, I chose a smaller class size with less distractions for my kids so that they can go to the high school they want, you can try to spin it into something else but I don’t know if anyone is stupid enough to believe you. Typically, mystery internet people are less annoying than you, but you are tenacious, like a dog with a bone, you’re still fucking stupid, but you are persistent.
I chose one school over another based on what I perceived to be best for my kids, you have chosen to attack that because you are an idiot, and that my friend is a F A C T.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
ZEB,
Seriously, you are a fucking joke. If you can’t accept anything outside your worldview I couldn’t give less of a shit.[/quote]
You don’t like being called out on things you wrote do you? I understand and so does everyone else.
You need to take more time reading my posts. I never said that B r i a n. I said that you didn’t want your kids in classes with those kids. And you are the one who pointed it out to begin with. You mentioned it first not me. And the fact that you mentioned it and then sent your kids to a private school shows that you acted on this belief. Are you now feeling guilty about making such judgments? Some liberals seem filled with guilt are you one of those liberals B r i a n?
No one said that you didn’t like them. But I think I know what your problem is B r i a n and I’ll diagnose it for you. You suffer from a manifestation of your liberal guilt which causes these uneasy feelings. But you’re a good liberal you give to the poor and want higher taxes on the rich. You want homosexuals to be able to be married, and want a woman to have the right to kill her unborn. You do and say everything that every good liberal should do and say. But the problem is you’ve pulled your kids out of public school and that was probably not in line with your belief system regarding public education and now you suffer from liberal guilt.
Anyway, back to my post.
Let’s cover it one more time shall we? I think we should:
YOU said that YOU didn’t like the large public school classes. YOU said that YOU didn’t like kids with disabilities in those classes. YOU said that YOU didn’t like the kids with behavior problems in those classes. So YOU put YOUR kids in a private school. You did say all that. No one took it to mean that you don’t like kids with problems. It’s just that you don’t want an overcrowded class room and kids with problems near your kids. And there is nothing wrong with that either. You made the best choice for your kids. Now you have to stop feeling guilty about the way you feel.
You must not like hearing what you said repeated back to you huh? Yeah, that’s it. Does it make you feel like less of a liberal when you hear your own words repeated? Well…don’t thank me that’s why I’m here to help you all I can 
So you think that I’m annoying, stupid and tenacious…I see. Welp thanks for the assessment.
But be cautious about calling anyone stupid, based on your own words you can’t remember what you wrote from one post to the next. Now try to calm yourself down. Go sit on the floor with legs crossed in front of a big picture of Obama and do some deep breathing. Say “B a r r y” on the inward breath and “O b a m a” on the outward. You’ll feel better in 10 minutes I bet.
Now post back real soon I want to see how this technique works out for you.
Bye
ZEB,
As a retired person I can afford to do this all day, your “business” must be very demanding for you to be this involved in an internet war of words. Pretty much everything you said is nonsense, you are consistently wrong and I’m pretty sure someone else at the library would like you to get off the computer so that they can now surf for porn.
Zeb really does not like liberals, probably was touched inappropriately by one as a child or something.
Article is a little old ('04), but relevant:
Public schools no place for teachers? kids
More than 25 percent of public school teachers in Washington and Baltimore send their children to private schools, a new study reports.
Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found. More than 1 in 5 public school teachers said their children attend private schools.
In Washington (28 percent), Baltimore (35 percent) and 16 other major cities, the figure is more than 1 in 4. In some cities, nearly half of the children of public school teachers have abandoned public schools
How is this any different?
Letting parents decide who will educate their children is a good thing but it’s still going to favor a certain class of people at the expense of an other class of people.
This democracy thing is all smoke and mirrors. How many vouchers will it take for the peasants to get to MIT?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Zeb really does not like liberals, probably was touched inappropriately by one as a child or something.[/quote]
Yeah, either that or he’s seen the damage that they can do if not checked. Case in point Obama’s last four years, and every state in the US that has had long term liberal leadership. Such as New York, California for starters. Over taxed, in debt, anti-business, and generally a mess.
Liberalism doesn’t work and it never has. And the sooner people realize this simple fact the better off we will all be.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]LittleLifter wrote:
In other words as the poster above alluded to, they teach science, not creationism.[/quote]
K.[/quote]
Umm… the scientific method was developed over thousands of years beginning in ancient Greece. Think Aristotle.
Christianity was not responsible for modern science.[/quote]
K. I disagree.