[quote]TC wrote:
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
[/quote]
Marketing Genius.
You need to take into account Shugart’s ongoing/past feud with Deebel.
[quote]TC wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
Here’s a guy who’s been a member since 2004, made over 2400 posts, presumably benefitted from the information we provide, and yet comes on to diss our products.
I am SO tempted to refute this, line by line. But I won’t.
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
[/quote]
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
Re: Fish Oil. There is officially no such thing as pharmaceutical grade fish oil mainly because the USP (United States Pharmacopeia) is yet to have specific regulations on the purity of fish oil. OK.
[/quote]
Your post was awesome and I agree with your main points, but they’ve approved a prescription fish oil-based Omega-3 Product in the US
TC,
Appreciate you responding to all these posts. I didn’t expect anything less and you didn’t disappoint.
I am personally so very happy this thread got started.
And like many have done already, I want to personally thank TC for coming in and setting the record straight. And especially for Mr. Patterson following up with direct phone conversations. Very classy, and very good business sense. Bravo.
What has happened with this “rogue” moderator is a clear example of the dangers that totalitarian actions can have on a community. There are some here for NO moderation, others for more. In the end, it is the middle ground that is the place where it should be, and I believe the forums as they exist today (minus the rogue moderator) reaches that middle ground.
TC and Tim, thanks.
I’m glad this thread was made, as it addresses many issues I’ve had as well.
Sometimes, the censorship does get out of hand. I’ve seen trolls shit in someone’s training log, with no problems, yet product discussions often get heavily moderated. Hopefully, as TC has stated, this is cleared up. Contrary to what my ranking says, I’m a level 5 and have spent more money than I care to know on this company’s products and think its only fair we get to discuss products, product changes, or discrepancies with our fellow customers.
Anyways, its good to see the big guys chiming in here and taking care of things. Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to start a thread praising NO-Explode…
…I keed, I keed.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
TC wrote:
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
Marketing Genius.[/quote]
I was just going to say this, you bastard!
Aside from everything else, Biotest products work, they refund me my money when customs cockblock, and, the recent Grow! Whey fiasco aside, I’ve never felt let down by the company. The marketing model behind this website is fucking ge-ni-ous. In fact, I’m planning to start two local businesses this year, using Biotest as a blueprint. That’s how good these guys are. I’ll even have my own “Shugarts” to write for me and ride the companies’ sacks while I count money… Now there’s a thought :).
I guess I’m thick skinned. The Shugart post didn’t offend me at all. Then again, I don’t get offended by much.
The guy is incredibly insecure. He has to brag about dating fitness models. Like it’s an accomplishment for a high-up editor of a fitness magazine to date fitness models? LOL. I live in L.A. People in the industry don’t brag about dating aspiring actresses, since everyone knows what’s up. It ain’t looks or personality drawing them to you.
I even have said many times that I like the V-Diet. I used it after injuries kept me out of the gym. It has its place, and I’ve recommended that a few people do it. That’s not enough, though. I’m still a “hater.”
Once you become full of yourself, and view yourself as a guru, it’s not enough for people to say, “Yeah, that diet has its place. It’s not right all or even most. For some, though, it’s the right thing.” Anyone who doesn’t say, “OMG, that’s the most amazing thing of all time and its creator is a genius” is a hater.
It’s all very amusing, from a psychological point of view.
Anyhow, still like the site.
I hope Shuggie bear keeps publishing his rants. One of the things that make me laugh most at this site at Shuggie’s rants and MikeTheBear’s fan boi’ism comments. Without those two characters, this place would be 75% less funny.
[quote]Clifford wrote: It seems whenever someone who’s knowledge rivals their own disagrees with them and they have to defend their stance they just throw in the towel after a few back and forth posts and i have even seem some of the posts turn borderline hostile.
In the end i think they afraid of being proved wrong and losing all their fan boys. [/quote]
That’s exactly right. I’ve been around since the original Supertrainlist list, long before Mel Siff died. Weights.net, lowcarb-l. I’m not alone.
So it’s not like some of us don’t know what’s up. Yet contributors want to feel superior because they posted some Internet article.
I write for a living, and have been published in legal encyclopedias and other fora. Others are similarly accomplished writers.
So the whole, “I published an article on the Internet. Bow down bitch” thing doesn’t work for many of us.
TC does protect contributors. He has his reasons, I suppose.
The way I see it: This site is a guru maker. Make it here, and your career is set. You get tons of clients. You can publish stupid books and people will buy them. Gyms get built. Yes, this website is sort of a big deal. If people can’t recognize that and want to get all butt hurt and cry, screw 'em.
And, really… The fear of “driving off” contributors? What kind of contributors are any good if they are afraid of backing up their ideas?
This won’t mean much to some, but I knew Mel Siff. Anyone ever see Mel Siff cry to his mommy (or TC) about people attacking his ideas? Mel Siff was a legitimate guru, yet he never acted like one. Never cried. Never hid behind titles or degrees. Never said, “I wrote Supertraining! Who are you to question me?!” Never stole ideas from others. He made his arguments and addressed counter arguments.
Would the world be a better place or worse place with more people like Siff? Seems pretty obvious to me.
If people are too afraid to back up their ideas, I’d rather not even see them contribute. They don’t have anything to offer other than b.s. theories, stolen ideas they can’t defend because they stole them, and false qualification.
The forums are a way to keep the rats off the ship.
[quote]TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
[/quote]
I’ll take it a step further: how bout we keep you in your home town?
I got family in San Diego. We’ll grab breakfast at Mission Cafe in La Jolla and pinch some cute waitress heiney. Plenty of it there.
If Tim actually made phone calls…I’m impressed.
And no offense to Shugart, whom I’ve never had any beef with, but to all the nuthuggers (had to use that word today) who say he’s a brilliant writer: come on, we can all shit blogs. Maybe not those of you who write loose instead of lose or than/then or would of / have…
I am sure the guy could write something worth literary criticism, but if you think that those blogs are preludes to the next great American novel - as some of the groupies allude to - then you are simply making this country’s literacy rate painfully obvious. Hell, it’s about as bad as the obesity rate…
Please know what good writing is. It’s like knowing to wrap it up.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
[/quote]
Flameout offers a lot more than a run-of-the-mill fish oil. For one it has CLA, secondly it has a higher amount of DHA than usual. DHA supplementation is more important for men from a cardiovascular stand-point than EPA.
Again this is something you would not find in regular fish oil supps which generally have more EPA than DHA (18:12).
Also, of all the capsules I have seen, none have ever contained 1gm of essential fats. At most it tends to be around 300-400mg.
MuscleMilk:
Adding some coconut oil to Metabolic Drive would give you the same benefits of their “super fats”.
The main selling point for MM is the taste. There is no denying it tastes awesome. But that is thanks to the malto-dextrin and fructose in the ingredients. (not enough, 8gm, for PWO/recovery either)
Yes, supplements are more expensive than food. But I like being able to use stuff like Flameout without having to spend $12/lb of wild salmon and still not get as much EFA’s.
And, I am sure a lot of people would agree that taking BCAA’s from food and alone as a supp has a different impact on their recovery, physique etc.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
I’m glad this thread was made, as it addresses many issues I’ve had as well.
Sometimes, the censorship does get out of hand. I’ve seen trolls shit in someone’s training log, with no problems, yet product discussions often get heavily moderated. Hopefully, as TC has stated, this is cleared up. Contrary to what my ranking says, I’m a level 5 and have spent more money than I care to know on this company’s products and think its only fair we get to discuss products, product changes, or discrepancies with our fellow customers.
Anyways, its good to see the big guys chiming in here and taking care of things. Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to start a thread praising NO-Explode…
…I keed, I keed.[/quote]
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
[quote]tom63 wrote:
TC wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
Here’s a guy who’s been a member since 2004, made over 2400 posts, presumably benefitted from the information we provide, and yet comes on to diss our products.
I am SO tempted to refute this, line by line. But I won’t.
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
I’ve been here since 1998 actually. I used to post under irondoc, see how many posts I had under that name. I stopped posting for over two years for the same reason some guys aren’t here now. moderation of posts, people using alternate screen names to promote products and start up discussions etc.
Personally, I think many supplements aren’t necessary, overpriced and not very effective. I take supplements for health.
But this is the danger if you run a website to draw people to help promote your products. If you allow honest discussion, some people won’t agree with you.
Dave Tate runs a sight where I answer questions. My real name is listed there, Thomas E. Deebel, D.C. He uses articles and has a Q&A to draw people to his business. the same as you use articles and the forum to draw people to your business.
We don’t owe you anything, because of your business model. If this was a fee sight, we would be paying. but you chose to use it as advertisement to help bring in new customers, and good for you. There’s nothing wrong with that.
But no one owes because there are free articles, or they wouldn’t be free now, would they?
[/quote]
Sure, you’re not required to buy anything from us.
Personally, I’d probably feel compelled to support a company/site/radio station etc. from which I derived entertainment and knowledge, but that’s just me.
I’m probably more surprised to hear that you’re not impressed with our supplements. (Speaking of Dave Tate, he gets pallets of our stuff delivered.) I guess it’s like hearing someone doesn’t think much of your kid or something.
No big deal.
However, at the very least, I’d expect someone who takes advantage of the site, yet doesn’t ever buy anything, to maybe refrain from putting a stick in our eye, especially in a thread where the main topic pretty much had nothing to do with supplements.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
I’ll take it a step further: how bout we keep you in your home town?
I got family in San Diego. We’ll grab breakfast at Mission Cafe in La Jolla and pinch some cute waitress heiney. Plenty of it there.
[/quote]
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
[quote]TC wrote:
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
[/quote]
Yes! That’s like a 1000 points for pancakes.
Win, regardless of how you hold your cup and saucer.
[quote]TC wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine
[/quote]
/pancake vs waffle debate
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
TC wrote:
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
Yes! That’s like a 1000 points for pancakes.
Win, regardless of how you hold your cup and saucer.[/quote]
Damn. I would have said you were a waffle kinda guy.
So, who wins the free Flameout and the other product whose name shall not be mentioned? 
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
TC wrote:
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
Yes! That’s like a 1000 points for pancakes.
Win, regardless of how you hold your cup and saucer.
Damn. I would have said you were a waffle kinda guy.
So, who wins the free Flameout and the other product whose name shall not be mentioned?
[/quote]
If I buy you waffles, will you share your “mysterious Biotest product”?
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
swissrugby67 wrote:
RSGZ wrote:
TC wrote:
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
Yes! That’s like a 1000 points for pancakes.
Win, regardless of how you hold your cup and saucer.
Damn. I would have said you were a waffle kinda guy.
So, who wins the free Flameout and the other product whose name shall not be mentioned?
If I buy you waffles, will you share your “mysterious Biotest product”?[/quote]
If I were to be so blessed as to receive said mysterious product I’m sure some secret pact would have to be made so that I didn’t divulge any information. (Hint: Blowjob)