Shouldn’t be too hard to find you a nice Essex slapper.
That big mouth SWR also left a while back, filled all his extra time spent on posting on T-Nation with building his world of warcraft characters up and look what happened to him; he became a fat lazy fuck who could barely push out a handful of pushups.
Well, I hear he’s back, and actually doing the Velocity diet to get back into things.
Moral of the story, leave T-Nation and you become fat and lazy.
Don’t do it!
[quote]
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it.[/quote]
Considering the quality of their “industry standards” [protein {Metabolic Drive, Grow!}, creatine, and fish oil {Flameout}] compared to literally every other company, what makes you say that? Sure, you can buy more for less, but how much is the more worth?
Wow. That is insane. I didn’t realize fish oil had a pharmaceutical grading by the United States pharmacopoeia. So, with that out of the way, I take it you have a fish oil with a superior quality that Flameout?
Obviously you have no care for the quality of the proteins you buy, the purity, or the type. Or, as with Muscle Milk, any “added bonus” kitchen sink ingredients which have been indicted in certain diseases. Kudos.
If you are as picky with whatever food stuffs you consume as you are with that which you supplement, I am not impressed.
No matter what, the supplements versus steroids always comes up. Well, certainly steroids are going to work better . . . for specific purposes. Nutritional supplements, though, fill a different role. They help with either increasing total calories, or bringing in a certain type of calorie, or bringing in calories in a specific hormonal environ or for fighting inflammation, increasing endurance in certain metabolic conditions, and a host of other things.
Things which proper diet [that’s the RIGHT type of calories from a high-quality source] simply can’t address fully.
One should also drink water and breath air. All of these things are conducive to hypertrophy, strength and power gain, and looking good on the internet.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
tom63 wrote: Remember, this isn’t Miracle on 42 st. where Santa sent people to other stores. Biotest runs a business. Talking up the competition or running them down won’t make them happy. And can you blame them? how would you feel if you ran a store and people where talking good about the guy down the street in front of your customers?
Sure. But it goes both ways. I’m a level 4. If my old order history would have gotten merges (I was a customer since '99 but only registered in 05 or whenever), I’d be a level 5.
So when I say I don’t like such-and-such product, it’s not to blast or hate. Out of respect I don’t say much. But once I posted that a certain product made me nauseous when taken on an empty stomach. That wasn’t allowed. Nothing was allowed, so I stopped buying.
TC did great. He put in the Alpha Cell, so I returned and am a customer again.
So these things cut both ways.
I’ve long said that no one should be able to say anything negative about Biotest supplements if they haven’t been here for at least a year. This keeps out the competitions’ trolls.
But if I say that I like to cycle a certain fat burner what’s the problem? Or if I say that a certain product doesn’t work… I don’t see the big deal.
Also, and this point is missed on a lot of people: Not all customers are created equal. Some people just shop once or twice.
There are certain people who tend to evangelicize products. I’ve turned a lot of people onto this site and Biotest. I’m betting a lot of the other “old timers” have, too. You think NateDogg, e.g., doesn’t tell people about Biotest? Yeah, right. Of course he does. And if you look big or are in shape, people ask what you take. So guys like X, RainJack, Utah Lama and others are going to get asked those types of questions. As a company, you want those customers happy.
So it’s pretty unsophisticated for people to suggest that turning off level 5 people is smart for business reasons. Often, it’s not.
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
[/quote]
Biotest supplements are worth it because the people behind them are made of some pretty good mojo. I have known of TC since the Muscle Media days, and it wasn’t his fault that that company went into the shitter.
While wholesome food is more nutritious than most things in a bottle, some nutrients are needed in quantities that would be near impossible to get in food. Should you decide to add supplements into your regiment, why not use something of quality and integrity? I would rather get half of something rather than all of nothing. We also live in a very fast paced life where people are always on the go. Supps are great in this aspect too.
If you think they work less well than steroids, you are probably right. Sure Deca, D-Bol, and all the others can smash anything on a supermarket shelf, but I have not ever heard of anyone who got arrested for eating food. Do you know how hard it is to get REAL juice these days? Even if you get it, you risk the chance of getting in trouble with the law. You would be floored if I told you the number of guys I met for conspiracy to distribute any drug you know, and plenty you don’t. Even simple possession can be turned into something worse if you have enough of the shit on you.
Bottom line, in this day and age, roids are probably not needed in most cases unless you are a professional bodybuilder. You can achieve great results without them, and not worry about your friendly neighborhood DEA knocking down your door at 2am.
[quote]TC wrote:
…just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine…
[/quote]
Proof… Pancake eaters have no class.
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
Food helps and no informed lifter will deny it (lol) but therein lies the concept of “supplementation”. In order to truly maximize your progress you will need to “tweak” your diet to conform to your situation best. Supplements allow a more accurate adjustment and sometimes better absorption of key elements (Protein the most basic). Furthermore, many substances like Amino acids that are key for protein synthesis do not occur within food and need to be supplemented. You also have other stuff like HOT-ROX Extreme, Rez-V, Z-12 that are incredibly useful to enhance fat loss, fight catabolism and promote a better recovery. This stuff you just can’t eat.
Re: Fish Oil. There is officially no such thing as pharmaceutical grade fish oil mainly because the USP (United States Pharmacopeia) is yet to have specific regulations on the purity of fish oil. OK.
You mention Muscle Milk or other “protein”. Even if you’ve been posting since 2004 it seems as though you’re largely clueless on the existence of different types that will effectively have alternate benefits. For instance, whey protein contains high levels of all the essential amino acids not produced by the human body, and is absorbed by the body very quickly. Casein protein (or Milk protein) is the richest in glutamine, an amino acid that aids in recovery, and has casomorphin which helps the body to absorb the amino acids over a long time. Soy protein contains all essential amino acids, and is an alternative protein for vegetarians. Soybeans also contain isoflavones, a type of phytoestrogen, which have a weak estrogenic activity. Egg white protein is a lactose- and dairy-free protein
An advanced lifter will use this to his advantage by combining the right ones at the right time to enhance his progress. Biotest (amongst other firms) provide different products to cater for this (Grow!, Metabolic Drive, Surge Recovery etc).
As for supplementation being less effective than steroids that’s a silly comment. Why? Because the two go hand-in-hand. In reality, steroid use is best used when your diet is already outstanding and you have perhaps reached your genetic peak. I’m not knowledgeable on the topic (being natural) but from what I gather any real benefit gained from performing a cycle is directly proportional to not only your caloric intake (eat loads) but higher than average protein in take. (Hence the importance of protein shakes.) Please add to this someone?
Yes, I’m a level 0 but that is because I by my Biotest products from 2nd Party retailers (shipping was too expensive as a student). Even if I may not respond as well as others with some of the products I am very pleased with the quality and it shows with my progress.
[/quote]
Great post. Also, I like your avatar.
But that’s not what I came here to say. What I have to say is that once, a couple of years ago, I wrote “Flameout” in all caps. I don’t remember why, it seems odd that I would do that. But at any rate, whatever I was talking about, the mods made all but the “F” lowercase before they posted it.
So, that’s my important input into the discussion. To recap:
- Like above post
- Like tight t-shirt in a platonic way
- Have had capitalized Biotest product name reduced to lowercase in an excess of moderator modesty
Wow. Thanks so much TC and Mod Laurie for responding.
Oh I know I have been moderated and I deserved it every time and always received an explanation.
Don’t you wish high school was over?
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
swissrugby67 wrote:
Food helps and no informed lifter will deny it (lol) but therein lies the concept of “supplementation”. In order to truly maximize your progress you will need to “tweak” your diet to conform to your situation best. Supplements allow a more accurate adjustment and sometimes better absorption of key elements (Protein the most basic). Furthermore, many substances like Amino acids that are key for protein synthesis do not occur within food and need to be supplemented. You also have other stuff like HOT-ROX Extreme, Rez-V, Z-12 that are incredibly useful to enhance fat loss, fight catabolism and promote a better recovery. This stuff you just can’t eat.
Re: Fish Oil. There is officially no such thing as pharmaceutical grade fish oil mainly because the USP (United States Pharmacopeia) is yet to have specific regulations on the purity of fish oil. OK.
You mention Muscle Milk or other “protein”. Even if you’ve been posting since 2004 it seems as though you’re largely clueless on the existence of different types that will effectively have alternate benefits. For instance, whey protein contains high levels of all the essential amino acids not produced by the human body, and is absorbed by the body very quickly. Casein protein (or Milk protein) is the richest in glutamine, an amino acid that aids in recovery, and has casomorphin which helps the body to absorb the amino acids over a long time. Soy protein contains all essential amino acids, and is an alternative protein for vegetarians. Soybeans also contain isoflavones, a type of phytoestrogen, which have a weak estrogenic activity. Egg white protein is a lactose- and dairy-free protein
An advanced lifter will use this to his advantage by combining the right ones at the right time to enhance his progress. Biotest (amongst other firms) provide different products to cater for this (Grow!, Metabolic Drive, Surge Recovery etc).
As for supplementation being less effective than steroids that’s a silly comment. Why? Because the two go hand-in-hand. In reality, steroid use is best used when your diet is already outstanding and you have perhaps reached your genetic peak. I’m not knowledgeable on the topic (being natural) but from what I gather any real benefit gained from performing a cycle is directly proportional to not only your caloric intake (eat loads) but higher than average protein in take. (Hence the importance of protein shakes.) Please add to this someone?
Yes, I’m a level 0 but that is because I by my Biotest products from 2nd Party retailers (shipping was too expensive as a student). Even if I may not respond as well as others with some of the products I am very pleased with the quality and it shows with my progress.
Great post. Also, I like your avatar.
But that’s not what I came here to say. What I have to say is that once, a couple of years ago, I wrote “Flameout” in all caps. I don’t remember why, it seems odd that I would do that. But at any rate, whatever I was talking about, the mods made all but the “F” lowercase before they posted it.
So, that’s my important input into the discussion. To recap:
-
Like above post
-
Like tight t-shirt in a platonic way
-
Have had capitalized Biotest product name reduced to lowercase in an excess of moderator modesty[/quote]
-
Thank you
-
It likes you back in a platonic way
Thanks for the response. Not to beat a dead horse, but beat beat beat…
[quote]TC wrote:
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
- No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.[/quote]
Agreed, gots no problems wit’ dat.
Absolutely agree.
Ok, this sorta jumps to an extreme. I, and many others have been censored, when posting about relatively benign topics with regards to supplements, such as:
"Hey, I noticed [insert Biotest supplement here] is different somehow. Anyone notice this? What happened? "
“Hey, what brand of [insert product Biotest doesn’t make] do you guys recommend?”
I definitely understand unwarranted bashing of Biotest being prohibited, but I have tried to discuss changes I’ve noticed in the products and have either been told there WERE no changes, or the post has been “sent to customer service” and never heard from again.
Again, I ain’t goin’ nowhere, and think you guys produce great stuff and credit you guys with both my health and achievements in the weight room and also the health of family members and friends, and I pimp you guys whenever I can. Its just that, sometimes, as has been mentioned, the censorship was puzzling, to say the least.
[quote]TC wrote:
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
[/quote]
Not too bad? I was asking quite a few probing questions when Superfood came out, and, TC, you PM’d me to clarify some points. Getting a customer service question answered by the owner** of a company is beyond not too bad; it’s beyond freaking awesome. I have always gotten enough leeway to respectfully post any question I have ever had, even challenging ones.
**TC is editor in chief and founder/owner, and Tim Patterson is CEO right? I was never dead sure about the origins of T-Mag.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
"Hey, I noticed [insert Biotest supplement here] is different somehow. Anyone notice this? What happened? "
“Hey, what brand of [insert product Biotest doesn’t make] do you guys recommend?”
I definitely understand unwarranted bashing of Biotest being prohibited, but I have tried to discuss changes I’ve noticed in the products and have either been told there WERE no changes, or the post has been “sent to customer service” and never heard from again.
[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]Fezzik wrote:
TC wrote:
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
Not too bad? I was asking quite a few probing questions when Superfood came out, and, TC, you PM’d me to clarify some points. Getting a customer service question answered by the owner** of a company is beyond not too bad; it’s beyond freaking awesome. I have always gotten enough leeway to respectfully post any question I have ever had, even challenging ones.
**TC is editor in chief and founder/owner, and Tim Patterson is CEO right? I was never dead sure about the origins of T-Mag.[/quote]
Tim and I are the sole owners, but he’s the majority owner and CEO.
I’m Editor-in-Chief and I also sweeps up.
I just wanted to say thank you to all the long time members for coming on here and reminding me why I like this place so much.
And a big thanks to TC…we all appreciate your feedback.
It is stuff like this that reminds me of why I came here…like Prof X said, we came here because we wanted to be around people like us.
Good to know there are some some people like that…old and new, who get it.
Many thanks.
[quote]TC wrote:
Fezzik wrote:
TC wrote:
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
Not too bad? I was asking quite a few probing questions when Superfood came out, and, TC, you PM’d me to clarify some points. Getting a customer service question answered by the owner** of a company is beyond not too bad; it’s beyond freaking awesome. I have always gotten enough leeway to respectfully post any question I have ever had, even challenging ones.
**TC is editor in chief and founder/owner, and Tim Patterson is CEO right? I was never dead sure about the origins of T-Mag.
Tim and I are the sole owners, but he’s the majority owner and CEO.
I’m Editor-in-Chief and I also sweeps up.
[/quote]
If you give me free supplements for life, I’ll take over the sweeping responsibilities.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
…
Dave Tate runs a sight where I answer questions. My real name is listed there, Thomas E. Deebel, D.C. He uses articles and has a Q&A to draw people to his business. the same as you use articles and the forum to draw people to your business.
[/quote]
So, sorry if this question is out of line, because I’m unaware of all the politics, but is Dave Tate OK with one of his writers shitting on supplements here when he himself is working with Biotest to promote their supplements?
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.[/quote]
Mmkay. First you say:
“EAT FOOD, it works.”
Then you say:
“I … buy some Muscle Milk or other protein” after saying “Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it”.
Hm.
And FWIW, I always pictured Shugart as McCain, Tim Patterson as Obama, and TC as Reagan in his older years.
“Reagan SMASH!”
[quote]TC wrote:
NewDamage wrote:
I’m glad this thread was made, as it addresses many issues I’ve had as well.
Sometimes, the censorship does get out of hand. I’ve seen trolls shit in someone’s training log, with no problems, yet product discussions often get heavily moderated. Hopefully, as TC has stated, this is cleared up. Contrary to what my ranking says, I’m a level 5 and have spent more money than I care to know on this company’s products and think its only fair we get to discuss products, product changes, or discrepancies with our fellow customers.
Anyways, its good to see the big guys chiming in here and taking care of things. Now if you’ll excuse me I’m off to start a thread praising NO-Explode…
…I keed, I keed.
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
[/quote]
Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive? How come no one told me of this?
CLaw, was the supp HOT-ROX? I know I get nauseous too on that. I always need to eat or drink SOMETHING with it otherwise it’s goodbye whatever meal I had last.
MAKE ME A MOD
Whoever complains about what Shugs wrote is a fucking girl.