It would be awesome if Biotest would have more products at Vitacost
Especially for someone on a really tight budget.
I don’t even care about that. A dude who takes the “Yes We Can” Obama graphics and posts an avatar of his hot cartoon bod is pretty freaking hilarious. It’s unintentional self-parody. If I wanted to insult the guy, I would have posted that as him. Instead, he did it himself.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Professor X wrote: It would be nice if this were realized and a muzzle were thrown over Shug’s writing from time to time.
I don’t even care about that. A dude who takes the “Yes We Can” Obama graphics and posts an avatar of his hot cartoon bod is pretty freaking hilarious. It’s unintentional self-parody. If I wanted to insult the guy, I would have posted that as him. Instead, he did it himself. [/quote]
At least I wasn’t laughing alone. All I kept thinking when I saw that was, “two snaps up with a twist”.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
chimera182 wrote: I used to be such a fan of his, even considered doing the V-Diet. Not saying he’s not a smart guy (cause he is), but I’d rather get big.
He was cool at first. I liked his older stuff. Then he got a few people riding his nuts. Now he’s insufferable. He considers himself a guru.
He’s easy enough to ignore when he’s not changing the editorial tone of the articles. Thankfully TC isn’t totally in absentia. Once TC is gone, this site is dead.
Oh, and I’m not some guy who goes around all “hard core” or throws a fit anytime there isn’t an article mentioning steroids. I read Men’s Health, Best Life, Outside, and all sorts of other metro magazines.
It’s when people believe their own hype that they are obnoxious.
This beats anything I was going to type.
[/quote]
I just read Shug’s I’m Back . . .
Damn. I mean, I stopped enjoying his articles a while ago, and find it hard to read through an article with his editorial voice as the one most heard, but . . .
As long as the turds keep buying stuff. Wow. That’s edgy. That’s bleeding edge. That’s the kind of hard core a diet-to-perfection, not-gonna-suffer-in-training-after-this kinda person expects from something with Muscle in the metatext. Hell, that’s what the regulars want, too. To see that the testicles are still attached to our great editorial staff! Fuck yeah!!! Love it or leave it!!!
I’m a Biotest whore, by the way. The vast majority of my posts are in the Get a Life section, and the S&N section, the latter primarily saying “X Biotest Sups is Da Best!” I’ve neglected to discuss training for a long time since it both feels like working with a new and unmotivated client and has the effect of pissing in the wind. But wow.
A few years ago, even with Shugart in the same position, I would have had no problems referring a client to the website, looking around, and picking up supps for a specific goal. Now, I think I’ll be lumping there stuff in with my orders.
Really Chris. Perhaps you should come live back down with the rest of us. Yes, we’re all hip deep in shit. But, some of us know it. Being, you know, turds and all.
I lost alot of respect when Mr. Shugart made the comment of his past girlfriends being beautiful women (fitness models, etc).
If you need to edify yourself through this type of shit, then you need more help than bodybuilding can provide. Sure I can understand the pride you might have from landing such a girl, but truth be told, she probably likes you for alot more than your body.
Think about it. A girl like that gets hit on left and right by EVERYBODY. Yes even guys who are built. You are not the first guy with abs and arms to step to her, and most likely not the last. Dude she likes you cuz you are probably very well rounded overall.
To the mods and staff who freak out when someone mentions a non Biotest product, relax. The waters of success here at T-Nation are plentiful and warm. Come on in the water’s fine.
I would like to know which mod didn’t allow my post to show up just now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Professor X wrote: It would be nice if this were realized and a muzzle were thrown over Shug’s writing from time to time.
I don’t even care about that. A dude who takes the “Yes We Can” Obama graphics and posts an avatar of his hot cartoon bod is pretty freaking hilarious. It’s unintentional self-parody. If I wanted to insult the guy, I would have posted that as him. Instead, he did it himself.
At least I wasn’t laughing alone. All I kept thinking when I saw that was, “two snaps up with a twist”.[/quote]
You know i have been here for a while PX and i have seen you go toe to toe with some of the contributors who you have conflicting views with, and it ALWAYS ends with them eventually giving up or not responding to you or the whole thread being deleted.
It seems whenever someone who’s knowledge rivals their own disagrees with them and they have to defend their stance they just throw in the towel after a few back and forth posts and i have even seem some of the posts turn borderline hostile.
You know it seems like they try to throw a lot of big words and complicated theories at you in the hopes of it all being over your head so you wont be able to mount an intelligent response. if that fails and they cant convince you that their right then things start to turn hostile, like your insulting their intelligence by not swallowing everything they preach without question.
In the end i think they afraid of being proved wrong and losing all their fan boys.
are my posts going through to this thread or will i fine i have double posted when i log in tomorrow?
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
TC,
I think most people appreciate you coming in and offering an explanation, but if you really care to know, I can tell you that a good 6-7 of your long-time customers now shop elsewhere (they have told me explicitly). This is due mostly to the moderation issue. I am not exaggerating because I have joined that crowd now.
If Biotest makes such high quality supplements and believes so highly in its R&D and marketing teams, then I feel having open, unmoderated customer feedback not only keeps Biotest honest by holding it accountable, but also serves as a great PR for the company (if much of the feedback is positive, as is usually the case).
I once wrote that I got nothing out of Spike (I still don’t) and a few members chimed in saying the same, but I was immediately sent a PM that my views do not reflect the majority of customers’ experiences. Well, no shit. It’s called variance in stimulant-response. You even had Poliquin write that people can sometimes experience the opposite effect of what a stimulant is known to do.
And the explanation for moderation of certain posts (namely regarding Biotest products) that your competitors have been known to sabotage you guys on the public forums is really weak; even weaker given that the response is a template response, which I know I have been PM’d twice and seen the exact language of in different threads.
I just can’t seem to buy the excuse of the rogue, Nazi mod causing problems. Given the change in direction of the site (post V-Diet success), it seems that the House of Patterson is receiving many upgrades and round-the-clock surveillance (monitoring of posts) is definitely one of them.
I’m not trying to argue with you, but isn’t trying to avoid getting bashed by other companies reasonable?
[/quote]
It has become far too Orwellian - “Thought Police” and “Thought Crime.”
Better example:
I have noticed posts where Biotest product names seem curiously capitalized, as if to be exploited as some subliminal advertising campaign.
What poster REGULARLY writes “HOT-ROX Extreme” or “Surge Workout Fuel” in his/her posts?
Clearly, some mods go back and capitalize product names. THAT is what I am sick of seeing. That is what moderating has become - unethical.
[quote]G87 wrote:
https://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_blog_hammer_velocity_shugart/im_back_8
[/quote]
Wow. That was unprofessional, to sum up all my thoughts politely.
I’m surprised.
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
I’m not trying to argue with you, but isn’t trying to avoid getting bashed by other companies reasonable?
[/quote]
Not sure if my last post went through (would be ironic if it didn’t).
No, it is not reasonable because, given the generally positive feedback over the entire Biotest line, you can think of this site as an ecosystem where disturbances would normalize over time; meaning, one single bad apple giving a shitty review of a product- if they are truly a troll - should be outted for the most part by the long time members or people with good experiences with a product. So, that is not something necessitating moderation, as long as customers are kept happy. Their loyalty will do most of the necessary “policing.”
Besides, there is a HUGE difference between “Guys, this product did not do much for me…here were my results” and “guys, don’t buy this product. it is overpriced. Go to xyz.com and get a cheaper equivalent.”
I think the former case (which I consider fully legitimate) has been moderated, usually to the point of deleting the post entirely. It’s definitely happened to me.
And TC,
I know some former posters have been mentioned as no longer coming here or purchasing Biotest stuff. I can assure you the 6-7 I mentioned are NOT any of the already mentioned posters.
But it does suck that someone like NateDogg was supposedly banned. Someone who has spent thousands on Biotest. Real shame and truly crappy oversight from a business perspective. Just seems like Biotest has SO much faith in attracting the V-Diet type crowd (mass appeal) and in selling more and more expensive supplements that they don’t “need to care” about retaining long time customers.
If I’m wrong, I want to hear it and I want an example as to why.
Yeah that turd call was pretty stupid. Wonder if it’ll get edited?
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
It has become far too Orwellian - “Thought Police” and “Thought Crime.”
Better example:
I have noticed posts where Biotest product names seem curiously capitalized, as if to be exploited as some subliminal advertising campaign.
What poster REGULARLY writes “HOT-ROX Extreme” or “Surge Workout Fuel” in his/her posts?
Clearly, some mods go back and capitalize product names. THAT is what I am sick of seeing. That is what moderating has become - unethical.[/quote]
You’d be surprised what computer programs are capable of these days. 
[quote]Vash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
chimera182 wrote: I used to be such a fan of his, even considered doing the V-Diet. Not saying he’s not a smart guy (cause he is), but I’d rather get big.
He was cool at first. I liked his older stuff. Then he got a few people riding his nuts. Now he’s insufferable. He considers himself a guru.
He’s easy enough to ignore when he’s not changing the editorial tone of the articles. Thankfully TC isn’t totally in absentia. Once TC is gone, this site is dead.
Oh, and I’m not some guy who goes around all “hard core” or throws a fit anytime there isn’t an article mentioning steroids. I read Men’s Health, Best Life, Outside, and all sorts of other metro magazines.
It’s when people believe their own hype that they are obnoxious.
This beats anything I was going to type.
I just read Shug’s I’m Back . . .
Damn. I mean, I stopped enjoying his articles a while ago, and find it hard to read through an article with his editorial voice as the one most heard, but . . .
As long as the turds keep buying stuff. Wow. That’s edgy. That’s bleeding edge. That’s the kind of hard core a diet-to-perfection, not-gonna-suffer-in-training-after-this kinda person expects from something with Muscle in the metatext. Hell, that’s what the regulars want, too. To see that the testicles are still attached to our great editorial staff! Fuck yeah!!! Love it or leave it!!!
I’m a Biotest whore, by the way. The vast majority of my posts are in the Get a Life section, and the S&N section, the latter primarily saying “X Biotest Sups is Da Best!” I’ve neglected to discuss training for a long time since it both feels like working with a new and unmotivated client and has the effect of pissing in the wind. But wow.
A few years ago, even with Shugart in the same position, I would have had no problems referring a client to the website, looking around, and picking up supps for a specific goal. Now, I think I’ll be lumping there stuff in with my orders.
Really Chris. Perhaps you should come live back down with the rest of us. Yes, we’re all hip deep in shit. But, some of us know it. Being, you know, turds and all.
[/quote]
Well, I’m not going to sugarcoat anything here. I haven’t been around as long as many people commenting on this thread, but after reading Shugart’s article, I’m pretty amazed.
In fact, I’m goddamn near offended. That is the biggest bullshit ploy I’ve ever read on this site.
I’ve spent a HELL of a lot of money in the short time I’ve been around this site on supplements, to be called a “turd” by a guy who hardly even looks like he works out? That is fucking heinous.
I do enjoy the fact that Chris Shugart needs to try to elevate himself above Biotest’s faithful “TURD” customers because he doesn’t look any different now than he did years ago. What I don’t enjoy, though, is a direct insult.
Chris Shugart may have use to been pudgy, but I goddamn-guarantee he didn’t look ANYTHING like I use to. I dropped an incredible amount of weight and want to bodybuild… and I get insulted for it?
Oh, but wait, I didn’t use his AWESOME diet program. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
Because of that, there’s a very good chance I will permanently halt and further purchases with Biotest. I’ve recommended countless friends and others pursuing great bodies to Biotest, that’s probably going to change as well, unfortunately.
And it’s a real shame. You guys talk about using judgement calls, and you leave that shit up on one of the CONTRIBUTOR’S blogs? Fuck that. I’m disgusted.
And you know what, you can go ahead and edit my post if you want, and I’m sure you will.
Just know that there is a very real chance Biotest is losing a customer willing to fork cash out the ass for supplements.
EDIT: As long as I’m a bit more clear-headed, let me explain myself a bit more thouroughly. I work at Best Buy, and I know that if I ever called a customer a “turd” (Even a punk kid who comes in and buys a random CD,) my ass would be fired faster than I could apologize.
I just don’t get the inconsistancy between what’s “Testosterone” around here and what’s “Extremely Unprofessional.” I can’t buy an employee getting away with saying that kind of shit without any kind of reprocussions.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I would like to know which mod didn’t allow my post to show up just now. [/quote]
If I’m thinking about making a questionable post, I usually check to see if Shugart is online or not.
I don’t see how one person can effect the way you buy supplements. He could directly be speaking to me and call me whatever, but I’ll still be buying Surge, Flameout and a few other things because IMO, they’re the best of what’s out there.
Now maybe if it were someone like TC or Tim doing all this talk it might be different.
[quote]SSC wrote:
Vash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
chimera182 wrote: I used to be such a fan of his, even considered doing the V-Diet. Not saying he’s not a smart guy (cause he is), but I’d rather get big.
He was cool at first. I liked his older stuff. Then he got a few people riding his nuts. Now he’s insufferable. He considers himself a guru.
He’s easy enough to ignore when he’s not changing the editorial tone of the articles. Thankfully TC isn’t totally in absentia. Once TC is gone, this site is dead.
Oh, and I’m not some guy who goes around all “hard core” or throws a fit anytime there isn’t an article mentioning steroids. I read Men’s Health, Best Life, Outside, and all sorts of other metro magazines.
It’s when people believe their own hype that they are obnoxious.
This beats anything I was going to type.
I just read Shug’s I’m Back . . .
Damn. I mean, I stopped enjoying his articles a while ago, and find it hard to read through an article with his editorial voice as the one most heard, but . . .
As long as the turds keep buying stuff. Wow. That’s edgy. That’s bleeding edge. That’s the kind of hard core a diet-to-perfection, not-gonna-suffer-in-training-after-this kinda person expects from something with Muscle in the metatext. Hell, that’s what the regulars want, too. To see that the testicles are still attached to our great editorial staff! Fuck yeah!!! Love it or leave it!!!
I’m a Biotest whore, by the way. The vast majority of my posts are in the Get a Life section, and the S&N section, the latter primarily saying “X Biotest Sups is Da Best!” I’ve neglected to discuss training for a long time since it both feels like working with a new and unmotivated client and has the effect of pissing in the wind. But wow.
A few years ago, even with Shugart in the same position, I would have had no problems referring a client to the website, looking around, and picking up supps for a specific goal. Now, I think I’ll be lumping there stuff in with my orders.
Really Chris. Perhaps you should come live back down with the rest of us. Yes, we’re all hip deep in shit. But, some of us know it. Being, you know, turds and all.
Well, I’m not going to sugarcoat anything here. I haven’t been around as long as many people commenting on this thread, but after reading Shugart’s article, I’m pretty amazed.
In fact, I’m goddamn near offended. That is the biggest bullshit ploy I’ve ever read on this site.
I’ve spent a HELL of a lot of money in the short time I’ve been around this site on supplements, to be called a “turd” by a guy who hardly even looks like he works out? That is fucking heinous.
I do enjoy the fact that Chris Shugart needs to try to elevate himself above Biotest’s faithful “TURD” customers because he doesn’t look any different now than he did years ago. What I don’t enjoy, though, is a direct insult.
Chris Shugart may have use to been pudgy, but I goddamn-guarantee he didn’t look ANYTHING like I use to. I dropped an incredible amount of weight and want to bodybuild… and I get insulted for it?
Oh, but wait, I didn’t use his AWESOME diet program. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
Because of that, there’s a very good chance I will permanently halt and further purchases with Biotest. I’ve recommended countless friends and others pursuing great bodies to Biotest, that’s probably going to change as well, unfortunately.
And it’s a real shame. You guys talk about using judgement calls, and you leave that shit up on one of the CONTRIBUTOR’S blogs? Fuck that. I’m disgusted.
And you know what, you can go ahead and edit my post if you want, and I’m sure you will.
Just know that there is a very real chance Biotest is losing a customer willing to fork cash out the ass for supplements.[/quote]
Yeah Shugart is really the main reason I don’t like posting here. I notice my posts only tend to get fucked with when Shugart is online. Also I notice that all posts containing Shugart name take hours to get modded. I actually couldn’t finish reading Shugart’s rant about how awesome he was until you guys posted on here.
Lots of disappearing posts up in this mug.
Looks like the hummingbirds are back in full force.
[quote]SSC wrote:
Vash wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
chimera182 wrote: I used to be such a fan of his, even considered doing the V-Diet. Not saying he’s not a smart guy (cause he is), but I’d rather get big.
He was cool at first. I liked his older stuff. Then he got a few people riding his nuts. Now he’s insufferable. He considers himself a guru.
He’s easy enough to ignore when he’s not changing the editorial tone of the articles. Thankfully TC isn’t totally in absentia. Once TC is gone, this site is dead.
Oh, and I’m not some guy who goes around all “hard core” or throws a fit anytime there isn’t an article mentioning steroids. I read Men’s Health, Best Life, Outside, and all sorts of other metro magazines.
It’s when people believe their own hype that they are obnoxious.
This beats anything I was going to type.
I just read Shug’s I’m Back . . .
Damn. I mean, I stopped enjoying his articles a while ago, and find it hard to read through an article with his editorial voice as the one most heard, but . . .
As long as the turds keep buying stuff. Wow. That’s edgy. That’s bleeding edge. That’s the kind of hard core a diet-to-perfection, not-gonna-suffer-in-training-after-this kinda person expects from something with Muscle in the metatext. Hell, that’s what the regulars want, too. To see that the testicles are still attached to our great editorial staff! Fuck yeah!!! Love it or leave it!!!
I’m a Biotest whore, by the way. The vast majority of my posts are in the Get a Life section, and the S&N section, the latter primarily saying “X Biotest Sups is Da Best!” I’ve neglected to discuss training for a long time since it both feels like working with a new and unmotivated client and has the effect of pissing in the wind. But wow.
A few years ago, even with Shugart in the same position, I would have had no problems referring a client to the website, looking around, and picking up supps for a specific goal. Now, I think I’ll be lumping there stuff in with my orders.
Really Chris. Perhaps you should come live back down with the rest of us. Yes, we’re all hip deep in shit. But, some of us know it. Being, you know, turds and all.
Well, I’m not going to sugarcoat anything here. I haven’t been around as long as many people commenting on this thread, but after reading Shugart’s article, I’m pretty amazed.
In fact, I’m goddamn near offended. That is the biggest bullshit ploy I’ve ever read on this site.
I’ve spent a HELL of a lot of money in the short time I’ve been around this site on supplements, to be called a “turd” by a guy who hardly even looks like he works out? That is fucking heinous.
I do enjoy the fact that Chris Shugart needs to try to elevate himself above Biotest’s faithful “TURD” customers because he doesn’t look any different now than he did years ago. What I don’t enjoy, though, is a direct insult.
Chris Shugart may have use to been pudgy, but I goddamn-guarantee he didn’t look ANYTHING like I use to. I dropped an incredible amount of weight and want to bodybuild… and I get insulted for it?
Oh, but wait, I didn’t use his AWESOME diet program. Isn’t that a bit hypocritical?
Because of that, there’s a very good chance I will permanently halt and further purchases with Biotest. I’ve recommended countless friends and others pursuing great bodies to Biotest, that’s probably going to change as well, unfortunately.
And it’s a real shame. You guys talk about using judgement calls, and you leave that shit up on one of the CONTRIBUTOR’S blogs? Fuck that. I’m disgusted.
And you know what, you can go ahead and edit my post if you want, and I’m sure you will.
Just know that there is a very real chance Biotest is losing a customer willing to fork cash out the ass for supplements.
EDIT: As long as I’m a bit more clear-headed, let me explain myself a bit more thouroughly. I work at Best Buy, and I know that if I ever called a customer a “turd” (Even a punk kid who comes in and buys a random CD,) my ass would be fired faster than I could apologize.
I just don’t get the inconsistancy between what’s “Testosterone” around here and what’s “Extremely Unprofessional.” I can’t buy an employee getting away with saying that kind of shit without any kind of reprocussions.[/quote]
You know, I read Shugart’s column, and even I was so offended I almost vowed to stop using Biotest supplements!
Seriously.
Then I had a reverse “Hair Club for Men” moment and realized that I’m not only a member, but an owner, too.
Let me say this. Tim and I strongly disagree with most of the stuff Chris said. (We discussed it yesterday). We think TMuscle and the forums are just about perfect. And if our readers/customers are turds, well, we like turds and we’re turds, too.
And I like the T Alpha forum. I was instrumental in getting it started, so I don’t like it being called a failure.
But please remember, Tim and I are the only ones around here who set policy. No one else.
But Chris is certainly entitled to his own opinions. He’s a gifted writer and he has incredible talent for learnin’ people stuff. So I do the Obama thing and I brush off my shoulder.