[quote]belligerent wrote:
MAKE ME A MOD[/quote]
Yeah, make the guy who once made a second account to support his own side of an argument. Sounds good to me.
[quote]tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
[/quote]
This sounds like someone justifying why they don’t want to or don’t have the money to spend on supplements. It’s hard to see the value in something if you have never tried it, so the question is, have you tried Biotest Supps and other brands Supps and seen or felt little differnece between them thus coming to the conclusion that Biotest aren’t worth it? Or is something else going on here?
If your happy with how you feel, how you look, and your progress in the gym then go hard but if you’ve never tried something, don’t bag it. It’s human nature to attack what you don’t understand but that doesn’t make it right.
What’s that saying? If you’ve never seen valleys how do you recognise mountains???
EDIT: I could also go on about modern farming techniques, pasteurization and the declining nutrient density of food and how an apple today is vastly different to an apple as little as 50 years ago meaning more and more supplements will be required to remain healthy but…I can’t be assed.
Guys, this is kinda on target. Can anyone point me to a thread of opinions of the most important/effective Biotest products? Maybe a top 5 list?
Thanks in advance.
Ken
[quote]TC wrote:
Sure, sure. You’ll come back to the forum and tell everyone that TC doesn’t use utensils when he eats; just sticks his face in the plate and gobbles up his pancakes like a wolverine, or that I hold my coffee cup with my pinkie in the air, and then everyone will laugh at me.
[/quote]
I am sure you guys can…moderate that 
[quote]Ken Rose wrote:
Guys, this is kinda on target. Can anyone point me to a thread of opinions of the most important/effective Biotest products? Maybe a top 5 list?
Thanks in advance.
Ken[/quote]
There was this thread not too long ago…
http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/top_5_supplements_1
[quote]TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
[/quote]
Will any Scotch do? As long as it’s not a blend, of course. Single malt, Glenlivet, Glen Galley, perhaps, any Glen?
Seriously though, TC, you’re pretty much one the reasons I found this site. I basically followed you here after thing went south with MM2K. I’d hate to see things deteriorate to the point where guys like me started looking elsewhere for training/diet info and new supplements.
[quote]AngryVader wrote:
TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
Will any Scotch do? As long as it’s not a blend, of course. Single malt, Glenlivet, Glen Galley, perhaps, any Glen?
Seriously though, TC, you’re pretty much one the reasons I found this site. I basically followed you here after thing went south with MM2K. I’d hate to see things deteriorate to the point where guys like me started looking elsewhere for training/diet info and new supplements.
[/quote]
And if Vader leaves, then I’ll have no one to talk Star Wars with. Therefore, I leave as well. But I’ll come back after a day. Sorry, Vader.
[quote]TC wrote:
Regarding moderation (once again), we only have 3 rules.
-
No hate speech. We don’t allow people to be abusive towards someone based on their race, religion, sexual preference. etc.
-
Argue with our authors all you like, but please keep it civil. We want to give the authors a decent home, but if the attacks get personal, they have little reason to stick around. As an editor, I NEED authors. And yes, there are times when the occasional snarky author asks for it, but even then there’s a limit.
-
If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
[/quote]
No, its extremely reasonable.
I dont buy Biotest because Im in the UK and dont have enough spare cash, if I did I’d try them out.
Many people here forget the commecial background to the site; and I guess that is an indication of success, it shows a high degree of ‘ownership’ by the members so you are doing things right (on the whole).
As for the less corrupt remark, it was spoken (alright, posted) like a cynical T-man, you wouldn’t argue with that would ya?
[quote]TC wrote:
I’m Editor-in-Chief and I also sweeps up.
[/quote]
Erm, you missed a bit. Over…there.
[quote]stockzy wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
This sounds like someone justifying why they don’t want to or don’t have the money to spend on supplements. It’s hard to see the value in something if you have never tried it, so the question is, have you tried Biotest Supps and other brands Supps and seen or felt little differnece between them thus coming to the conclusion that Biotest aren’t worth it? Or is something else going on here?
If your happy with how you feel, how you look, and your progress in the gym then go hard but if you’ve never tried something, don’t bag it. It’s human nature to attack what you don’t understand but that doesn’t make it right.
What’s that saying? If you’ve never seen valleys how do you recognise mountains???
EDIT: I could also go on about modern farming techniques, pasteurization and the declining nutrient density of food and how an apple today is vastly different to an apple as little as 50 years ago meaning more and more supplements will be required to remain healthy but…I can’t be assed.[/quote]
Ugh, I’m like a chiropractor doctor guy who is 45 years old. I did not say I never used, I said I don’t use.
This is based on my training and experience, much with some of the best lifters on the planet. I’ve been on the medical staff at five Arnold classics and 6 Ironman races.
I’m 5’7" and about 200 pounds now. I have suffered some major health issues the last part of last year, but before the shingles and gall bladder issue, I was a few inches shy of a six hundred pound deadlift.
I’m not poor, i’m not wek, and I have health care training. I have lifted since 13 years of age and lusted after supplements sicne that time, because I knew that would fix everything. Joe Weider, Bob Hoffman, raw glandulars, smilax, cyclofenil. anyone remember that?
Protein powder works, take some. Antioxidants and digestive enzymes can help. Take some fiber, maybe some acidophilus. As for all the whiz bang stuff, you want to try it, go ahead. My perspective is from 32 years of observing the supplement industry.
BTW, I take muscle milk because of the higher calorie content. I pick it up at the local GNC, smemtimes I’ll buy other stuff on a sale.
As for modern farming techiques, be glad you have them because we would be starving without them. Want a good read, buy the Last Centurion by John Ringo.
Maybe it should be Biotest policy that a Mod who deletes your post must PM you with an explanation why and a copy of the post. People could pass this along to TC or other Biotest management if it’s inappropriate. That way things could be dealt with earlier and better. As I recall, Mods did used to PM you explaining post deletion. Maybe they still do. I don’t know. I haven’t had any posts deleted in some time and haven’t been posting much anyway.
[quote]TC wrote:
tom63 wrote:
TC wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
Here’s a guy who’s been a member since 2004, made over 2400 posts, presumably benefitted from the information we provide, and yet comes on to diss our products.
I am SO tempted to refute this, line by line. But I won’t.
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
I’ve been here since 1998 actually. I used to post under irondoc, see how many posts I had under that name. I stopped posting for over two years for the same reason some guys aren’t here now. moderation of posts, people using alternate screen names to promote products and start up discussions etc.
Personally, I think many supplements aren’t necessary, overpriced and not very effective. I take supplements for health.
But this is the danger if you run a website to draw people to help promote your products. If you allow honest discussion, some people won’t agree with you.
Dave Tate runs a sight where I answer questions. My real name is listed there, Thomas E. Deebel, D.C. He uses articles and has a Q&A to draw people to his business. the same as you use articles and the forum to draw people to your business.
We don’t owe you anything, because of your business model. If this was a fee sight, we would be paying. but you chose to use it as advertisement to help bring in new customers, and good for you. There’s nothing wrong with that.
But no one owes because there are free articles, or they wouldn’t be free now, would they?
Sure, you’re not required to buy anything from us.
Personally, I’d probably feel compelled to support a company/site/radio station etc. from which I derived entertainment and knowledge, but that’s just me.
I’m probably more surprised to hear that you’re not impressed with our supplements. (Speaking of Dave Tate, he gets pallets of our stuff delivered.) I guess it’s like hearing someone doesn’t think much of your kid or something.
No big deal.
However, at the very least, I’d expect someone who takes advantage of the site, yet doesn’t ever buy anything, to maybe refrain from putting a stick in our eye, especially in a thread where the main topic pretty much had nothing to do with supplements.
[/quote]
I understand your perspective. I believe you use quality ingredients and they are well made, just often not needed. There is nothing wrong with your protein powders, I just stopped buying them when i had to order them. shipping and the price makes it not worth it to me. I think it was a mistake in some ways to stop retail sales. Grow! and Surge have been around for a long time and I did use them in the past.
With the internet and many online retailers, this is a competitive business and it’s easier than ever to comparison shop. The products I used were good, it was just that I could get quality from other sources at a better price.
As for Dave, he’s a great guy and has said Biotest pays well and on time for articles and gives regular contributors free supplements which is very nice, btw. This does not mean there are used and are responsible for their lifting success.
Remember these are supplements, ie, supplemental. it is human nature to look for a quick fix. but I have not seen any real benefit to the miracle type of supplements, other than protein products, health products, and digestive related products.
But I will add that you have been very good about this and very reasonable and I appreciate your professionalism. you have not deleted posts or banned me from expressing my opinion. Actions like that will do more for loyalty and good will than some things that have happened in the past. and I’d like to thank you for allowing an honest discussion on this topic.
[quote]AngryVader wrote:
TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
Will any Scotch do? As long as it’s not a blend, of course. Single malt, Glenlivet, Glen Galley, perhaps, any Glen?
Seriously though, TC, you’re pretty much one the reasons I found this site. I basically followed you here after thing went south with MM2K. I’d hate to see things deteriorate to the point where guys like me started looking elsewhere for training/diet info and new supplements.
[/quote]
The Macallan 18 ain’t too shabby. just sayin
I’ve been modded only a few times, and I usually get a PM about it.
It’s not the end of the world that some people don’t post here anymore. Life goes on…
TC, thanks for popping up in this thread from time to time; we all really like the fact that we aren’t just bitching to one another and spinning our wheels.
[quote]SWR wrote:
That big mouth SWR also left a while back, filled all his extra time spent on posting on T-Nation with building his world of warcraft characters up and look what happened to him; he became a fat lazy fuck who could barely push out a handful of pushups.
Well, I hear he’s back, and actually doing the Velocity diet to get back into things.
Moral of the story, leave T-Nation and you become fat and lazy.
Don’t do it![/quote]
Welcome back!
Now get your lazy ass in the gym you fat bastard.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
TC wrote:
- If you have a complaint about a product, call customer service. It’s FAR TOO EASY for competitors to come in and make a nasty comment about a competing Biotest product that may have huge economic repercussions. We certainly don’t mind if you say, “Hey, I didn’t care for the Guava-flavored Metabolic Drive. Can someone suggest another flavor?”
But if you start a thread titled “Shit Supplements” and list one of our supplements under it, we’re not going to take to it kindly. We invest a lot of time, money, and HEART in our supps, and over-the-top attacks aren’t going to fly.
Now that ain’t too bad, is it?
Why would a question like, “Does ReceptorMax (which contains a fenugreek derivative) effect T3?” have been deleted? [/quote]
No reason.
There’s a chance the mod thought it was a medical question and forwarded it to Customer Service.
In that case, you should have gotten a PM explaining what happened to your post, followed by an answer from Customer Service.
I’m assuming that didn’t happen?
[quote]AngryVader wrote:
TC wrote:
pushmepullme wrote:
TC wrote:
If we’re ever together in a bar somewhere and I’m very drunk and surrounded by a team of lawyers, I might tell you about some of the stuff we’ve had to deal with. And some of it’s XXX rated.
I’ll be in CO Springs in August. I’m buying.
Ha!
I want Scotch. And I mean the good stuff.
Will any Scotch do? As long as it’s not a blend, of course. Single malt, Glenlivet, Glen Galley, perhaps, any Glen?
Seriously though, TC, you’re pretty much one the reasons I found this site. I basically followed you here after thing went south with MM2K. I’d hate to see things deteriorate to the point where guys like me started looking elsewhere for training/diet info and new supplements.
[/quote]
Not to worry. We’re a nimble little business. If course corrections are required, we make them.
(Yes, single malt!)
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Maybe it should be Biotest policy that a Mod who deletes your post must PM you with an explanation why and a copy of the post. People could pass this along to TC or other Biotest management if it’s inappropriate. That way things could be dealt with earlier and better. As I recall, Mods did used to PM you explaining post deletion. Maybe they still do. I don’t know. I haven’t had any posts deleted in some time and haven’t been posting much anyway. [/quote]
It’s still policy for them to inform you why the post was deleted.
[quote]TC wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Personally, I don’t buy Biotest products. I don’t think they’re worth it. I take pharmaceutical grade fish oil and vitamins from my office and buy some Muscle Milk or other protein. and I eat food. Basically after that, supplements are more expensive and work less well than steroids and people keep falling for it.
EAT FOOD, it works. And it’s cheaper.
Here’s a guy who’s been a member since 2004, made over 2400 posts, presumably benefitted from the information we provide, and yet comes on to diss our products.
I am SO tempted to refute this, line by line. But I won’t.
However, if anyone can give him a polite but logical response, I’ll send you a free bottle of Flameout and a bottle of a yet-to-be-released product. (I’ll award them to the best answer.)
[/quote]
Tom, I need to eat 6 meals a day. If I had to satisfy my calorie needs with FOOD each and every time I would need Flameout to deal with the tendonitis of the jaw I would surely develop. I might also get fired from my job spending so much time cooking and prepping. By the way, a member on this board said they had to submit all their supplements to a lab for testing. This person was undergoing a medical procedure and all his supplements had to be cleared. He said Flameout came back as “pharmaceutical grade”.
Instead, I can take three minutes to throw a scoop of Grow!, 1/2 scoop of Metabolic Drive, a Tablespoon of Almond Butter, 1/2 a cup frozen Blueberries and either a couple of frozen Strawberries or a few chunks of frozen Banana and I have a great tasting between meal snack that is very nutritious as well. I think this is faster, more nutritious and less expensive that most food options
Did someone on hear say Musclemilk taste good? I have to respectfully disagree. Try my shake above and then see if you have any interest In going back to Musclemilk.
Need a mass builder? Just add a 1/2 cup of ground up instant oats to the above recipe. You will have a mass builder that doesn’t leave you feeling bloated and isn’t sloshing around in your stomack for hours afterward.
Tom, you don’t think Biotest supplements are worth it. How much value do you place on your own life? Biotest sales Resveratrol at a good price. Aside from calorie restriction, this is the only thing proven to extend life (proven in rats, fish, fruit flies and mice). You can’t get this stuff from food either. It would take 100 to 300 bottles of wine to get the amount you get in 1 to 3 capsules of Rez-V.
Finally, while steroids work, they are against the law. Many of us don’t want to break the law or we don’t want to deal with the stigma attached with taking them or we just don’t know how to go about getting them. Fortunately we can get quality supplements from Biotest delivered to our home.
Oh yeah, one more thing, what food can do for you what Creatine can do for you? That’s right, none.