They should lock-up the worst young offenders involved in these riots with the most prolific kiddy-fiddlers. I’d like to see how tough they act when they’ve just failed to loot the prison tuck-shop & drop the soap in the showers!!
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]Alffi wrote:
The media does everything it can to prevent people from seeing that the problem is about race and not about “youths”, “disadvantaged”, “bored people”, “unemployed people” or whatever. Being bored or too lazy to get a job does not cause one to loot, rob and cause mayhem. [/quote]
Please, elaborate. I think this should be interesting to read.[/quote]
To be honest with you, that thought was at the back of my mind too. I hate to only hear one side of the story, and the news are really bad for this.
To me, what’s happened lately just uncovers what’s been brewing for years; the disgruntlement between the races. The “social status” is just one of the many variables.
Such a shame because most of it likely is caused by simple misunderstanding, amongst cultural differences. And then when the children grow up, they take on the deeply engrained prejudices of their parents and it just gets worse.
I remember when my brother moved to London, he was shocked by the attitude between the races (where we come from, we are pretty sheltered from all that)…all three races held a proper grudge against each other. It was all around (it stunk), it was like going to work with an “atmosphere” x10.[/quote]
But say that is the case - did these rioters then just discard their racial ‘opinions’ to then loot and pillage aside one another? I’m not denying that there isn’t racial tension there, of course that’s the case, but these riots don’t seem to be about anything (including Mark D.) other than mob mentality, free goods and the high of chaos without repercussion.
It very quickly became apparent on the streets and in the media that the police couldn’t contain the problem and like a rolling stone gathering moss, even more young people (predominately - some as young as 11 or worse) took to the streets. As pointed out over the media so frequently over the last few days - alot of our youth have an undisciplined upbringing, lack respect for others and generally just do not give a shit about anything other than themselves.
Not all of them mind you - I was a bit touched by the story of the mother who spotted her daughter (an Olympic ambassador no less) on the telly at the front of a riot crowd throwing bricks, and made the tough call to grass her in. Here is possibly the case of a young girl just caught up in the excitement of it all. Who knows?
But I wouldn’t discredit the capacity for Britain’s youth to just run riot, just because they can. Having lived in Possil for 7 years and witnessing kids as young as 7 smoking dope, chasing the dragon or drinking Buckfast - I wouldn’t discredit their capacity to do anything.
Hell, even some of the rioters themselves basically said they did it - because they ‘could’.
[/quote]
I personally think that the media and politicians are trying to deflect attention away from the uncomfortable truth that a lot of these rioters are, on paper, law-abiding citizens.
Notice how the rioters are frequently referred to as gangs in the news. They are trying to tie in rioters to gang culture, or at least suggesting to the viewing public that there is some explanation for why people are behaving like this in a civilized society.
[/quote]
I don’t disagree with this at all. I would even offer that the some of them actually ‘believe’ what they are saying!
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
IMO, disrespect amongst the youths is all around us (within our own cultures), but riots on that scale don’t happen daily. IF the majority of the rioters parents were hard working shop owners etc, then this would not have happened (at least, not to the extent it did). But because of racial tension, and no respect for the so called “rich” people (different social classes/perspectives), this somehow justifies them helping themselves.
They would not do this to their own mother/brother/sister…because of respect for each other (something that EVERY side says “the other culture lacks towards them”)
Although it has been mentioned that when this happens, even people that have “standards” and deny that they would ever steel anything could get caught up in it all and just go with the adrenaline rush, only to later regret it.[/quote]
They don’t happen daily, but then again not every day are they given an excuse like Mark Duggan. Whatever individual reasons people might have for doing what they did - the catalyst was the information of the shooting, that’s pretty apparent. Now I’ve no doubt the initial outrage amongst his community was probably enough to send the initial people marching but as you state at the end there - even people who would normally hold themselves accountable throw caution to the wind and get caught in a moment, especially if we’re talking about free televisions.
Imagine how easily caught up in it you would be, as a kid, with no real sense of responsibility and certainly no fear of reprisal from the law: and I quote from BBC live text updates - “A 16-year-old looter from Manchester tells BBC 5 live he will continue participating in the violence and theft until he gets caught, because it is his first offence and nothing will happen.”
Much like the Scottish guys getting picked up by police for trying to start riots in Glasgow and other areas of Scotland - just a bunch of bams with more time on their hands than responsibility. As someone mentioned above - lil’ Emperor theory is as good as it gets in my opinion. This is what happens when you stop disciplining children and start letting them do what they want, and I can only see it getting worse with the coming generations.
[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
[quote]Ben_VFR85 wrote:
When I was younger I had a GF that lived in Finsbury park. Very intimidating to have all eyes on you as the only white man walking through the street all week.
[/quote]
Ah come on, don’t say that… are you sure you were the only white guy in the streets? Or what your eyes chose to see only was the ethnic people?
I usually travel all the way to Finsbury Park (the park has got some awesome hills for sprinthills by the way) and it is unfair for you to say it is only populated by minorities. There’s a good mix of White, Asians and Black in that area. Unless the whites only go there for the Arsenal FC shop. Maybe?
[/quote]
I often saw a wide variety of types from the dodgy estate she lived in [big tower of flats], up through the main street up to the tube station. This was about 8 years ago I think. I rarely saw white british along that road, which is pretty much all I used to go up to.
Being a white boy from the southwest originally, yeah, maybe I focused a lot on other races cause I wasn’t used to it… I’m still fairly sure whites were pretty much minority around THAT part of finsbury park though. Which is again, just my limited experience.
Theres an awesome little italian place that used to be between finsbury park and islington, dont know if its still there. Damn I love good food! Also, the bakery on the corner… AWESOME. I hope its still there.
[quote]Stern wrote:
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
IMO, disrespect amongst the youths is all around us (within our own cultures), but riots on that scale don’t happen daily. IF the majority of the rioters parents were hard working shop owners etc, then this would not have happened (at least, not to the extent it did). But because of racial tension, and no respect for the so called “rich” people (different social classes/perspectives), this somehow justifies them helping themselves.
They would not do this to their own mother/brother/sister…because of respect for each other (something that EVERY side says “the other culture lacks towards them”)
Although it has been mentioned that when this happens, even people that have “standards” and deny that they would ever steel anything could get caught up in it all and just go with the adrenaline rush, only to later regret it.[/quote]
They don’t happen daily, but then again not every day are they given an excuse like Mark Duggan. Whatever individual reasons people might have for doing what they did - the catalyst was the information of the shooting, that’s pretty apparent. Now I’ve no doubt the initial outrage amongst his community was probably enough to send the initial people marching but as you state at the end there - even people who would normally hold themselves accountable throw caution to the wind and get caught in a moment, especially if we’re talking about free televisions.
Imagine how easily caught up in it you would be, as a kid, with no real sense of responsibility and certainly no fear of reprisal from the law: and I quote from BBC live text updates - “A 16-year-old looter from Manchester tells BBC 5 live he will continue participating in the violence and theft until he gets caught, because it is his first offence and nothing will happen.”
Much like the Scottish guys getting picked up by police for trying to start riots in Glasgow and other areas of Scotland - just a bunch of bams with more time on their hands than responsibility. As someone mentioned above - lil’ Emperor theory is as good as it gets in my opinion. This is what happens when you stop disciplining children and start letting them do what they want, and I can only see it getting worse with the coming generations.
[/quote]
True, I guess it’s a mixture really. Got to wonder though why the race card is always played when things go wrong (as if to say “well they deserved it after how we’ve been treated”).
I loved it how the Scottish potential rioters were put in their place straight away. Like the poor old terrorist at Glasgow airport, he didn’t stand a chance;
“F*** off ya wee bastard, this is oor country!” haha
[quote]Stern wrote:
I don’t disagree with this at all. I would even offer that the some of them actually ‘believe’ what they are saying!
[/quote]
Wouldn’t surprise me in the least, Stern. They are spinning the motivation behind the continued rioting just as they are spinning the police force’s inability to contain it by releasing CCTV stills of rioters, assuring the public that they will be caught. At some point. After they’ve rioted.
Now they are asking people to phone Crimestoppers and let them know of any rioters they didn’t identify on CCTV…
They had the chance to turn the water cannons on them, but their ‘expert’ said that the water cannon wouldn’t allow them to make individual arrests. Fuck that… disperse the rioters first and worry about making examples of people later.
Video to go with my post 
Noted British historian, David Starkey, makes a very controversial argument on a BBC talk show about the recent riots: multiculturalism in general, and black culture in particular, is the cause of the social unrest. Specifically, when a black person is educated and displays good manners, civilized behaviour, and so on, he is adopting white culture. Conversely, when a white person is looting and polluting, glorifying violence, and eating spicey, tasty food, then they are exhibiting black culture. All the white looters and rioters did so against their better upbringing, due to the negative influence of the cursed blacks/spawns of Lucifer. See link attached:
He kind of opened my eyes to something I’ve not thought about before.
100 years ago in this country you were brought up one way with a very similar community and everyone understood and knew their place and how to act. From the 70’s on, you get different generations with different experiences of new things, mixing with more culture. Pass that onto todays children and if they hang around with different cultures and get into different sorts of music and ways of living - and look up to entirely different idols in life - how can they relate to their parents? Or their parents to them?
I know if I was a kid I’d be pretty confused and not know what to think because of everything around me.
Can anyone expand on what I said so I can get a better understanding, or maybe even make sense of what I’m thinking myself cause I honestly havn’t given it much thought until now.
Am I even making sense lol
I understand your point of view, Ben. And though I agree with most of it, I’d like to bring some counter points. But I need to dash now so I’ll get back to you later.
I like Pat Condell and I was waiting for him to give his take on the rioting. Does not disappoint.
[quote]dbanton wrote:
Noted British historian, David Starkey, makes a very controversial argument on a BBC talk show about the recent riots: multiculturalism in general, and black culture in particular, is the cause of the social unrest. Specifically, when a black person is educated and displays good manners, civilized behaviour, and so on, he is adopting white culture. Conversely, when a white person is looting and polluting, glorifying violence, and eating spicey, tasty food, then they are exhibiting black culture. All the white looters and rioters did so against their better upbringing, due to the negative influence of the cursed blacks/spawns of Lucifer. See link attached:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14513517[/quote]
What Starkey is wrong about is that it is black culture. Which black culture? Black people are not a homogenous group.
What I would say is that many young kids/adults, irrespective of race, have adopted a culture that is heavily influenced by American street gangs, and also some elements of rap music etc. They place too much value in superficial materialism (though arguably our whole society does this), and the males feel that they must live up to hyper macho concepts of masculinity. Carrying yourself in a way that is most likely to lead to success is seen as being white/gay/square and would mean you would get little respect from your peers.
These kids don’t aspire to get jobs/careers in sectors that provide the majority of the work. They aspire to be sound engineers/artists/ sports stars. Whilst there is nothing wrong with these aspirations, the chances of working in these industries are a lot slimmer then working in ‘uncool’ jobs in the public and private sectors. Thus they are more likely to be unemployed.
Mind that I’m talking only from what I have read and seen, not from being there, but I don’t like this idea of blaming some “racial unrest” for these events, when the loots were white, black and any colour and the victims, exactly the same.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Mind that I’m talking only from what I have read and seen, not from being there, but I don’t like this idea of blaming some “racial unrest” for these events, when the loots were white, black and any colour and the victims, exactly the same.
[/quote]
I agree.
[quote]krebcycle wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Mind that I’m talking only from what I have read and seen, not from being there, but I don’t like this idea of blaming some “racial unrest” for these events, when the loots were white, black and any colour and the victims, exactly the same.
[/quote]
I agree.[/quote]
x3
But to be honest, I think it’s the media that promotes that kind of speculation in the first place. They blew this whole thing out of proportion as it is, anyway.
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]krebcycle wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Mind that I’m talking only from what I have read and seen, not from being there, but I don’t like this idea of blaming some “racial unrest” for these events, when the loots were white, black and any colour and the victims, exactly the same.
[/quote]
I agree.[/quote]
x3
But to be honest, I think it’s the media that promotes that kind of speculation in the first place. They blew this whole thing out of proportion as it is, anyway. [/quote]
Yeah, probably. Saying there’s a racial and social unrest is probably more profitable, for them, than saying “we have a values crisis”.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]RSGZ wrote:
[quote]krebcycle wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Mind that I’m talking only from what I have read and seen, not from being there, but I don’t like this idea of blaming some “racial unrest” for these events, when the loots were white, black and any colour and the victims, exactly the same.
[/quote]
I agree.[/quote]
x3
But to be honest, I think it’s the media that promotes that kind of speculation in the first place. They blew this whole thing out of proportion as it is, anyway. [/quote]
Yeah, probably. Saying there’s a racial and social unrest is probably more profitable, for them, than saying “we have a values crisis”.
[/quote]
Of course. I don’t read newspapers and I don’t watch the news normally, but when I opened up a paper it was 12 pages of this, from the first to the twelfth. And that’s days after the riots have stopped.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Video to go with my post
Lol…I cracked at the end when he mentioned “legal tender”…uncannily accurate!
But aye…we’ll have none of that “riotin’ pish” up here!!! 
[quote]Stern wrote:
But aye…we’ll have none of that “riotin’ pish” up here!!!
[/quote]
LOL
I asked my granddad what he thought of recent events, and in with politically accurate and surprisingly sound reasoning he said:
“we’ll jist shoot the wee shyts!”
(but only after he’s eaten his mince and tatties)