Loftearmen's MMA Log

Training
101

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
This is me doing my last set of hand cycles and crying about it like a baby

So what are hand cycles for?[/quote]

It’s just a tool for increasing endurance in the shoulders. My shoulders start to burn from keeping my hands up longer than a few minutes so this is something I need to work on.[/quote]

Another good thing to do is hold 2 lb. weights while you’re shadowboxing or doing footwork drills. It’s not much for a dude your size, but if you’re moving and punching (lightly) with weights, it’s going to increase your endurance greatly.

Also - stay loose. The more you tighten, the harder holding your hands up gets. There should be NO tension in your shoulders if you’re not punching.

102

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
This is me doing my last set of hand cycles and crying about it like a baby

So what are hand cycles for?[/quote]

It’s just a tool for increasing endurance in the shoulders. My shoulders start to burn from keeping my hands up longer than a few minutes so this is something I need to work on.[/quote]

Another good thing to do is hold 2 lb. weights while you’re shadowboxing or doing footwork drills. It’s not much for a dude your size, but if you’re moving and punching (lightly) with weights, it’s going to increase your endurance greatly.

Also - stay loose. The more you tighten, the harder holding your hands up gets. There should be NO tension in your shoulders if you’re not punching. [/quote]

I really need to work on this. When I’m shadowboxing I have to constantly remind myself about it or I’ll get all tight and throw punches like I’m trying to pummel someone into nothing. At least I know when I get someone stunned or on the ropes I can turn it on! lol. I really do need to learn how to turn it off though if I am going to last for 25 minutes in a cage.

103

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

I really need to work on this. When I’m shadowboxing I have to constantly remind myself about it or I’ll get all tight and throw punches like I’m trying to pummel someone into nothing. At least I know when I get someone stunned or on the ropes I can turn it on! lol. I really do need to learn how to turn it off though if I am going to last for 25 minutes in a cage.[/quote]

Honestly, it isn’t even that - when you’re trying to finish someone, it’s even more important that you stay loose; tighten up, and you’ll lose your power when you need it most.

If someone told you to put to touch your hands to your chin - not in a fighting position, just against your chin - you’d be able to hold it for a long time because you don’t have any ideas in your head about what it means … you’ve just got your hands sitting by your face.

That’s the level of looseness you’ve got to achieve - the one where keeping your guard up is no stressful to your muscles than changing a lightbulb.

It’s one of those boxing things that once it happens, you’ll be like, “Ohhhh, THIS is what they mean …”

104

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

I really need to work on this. When I’m shadowboxing I have to constantly remind myself about it or I’ll get all tight and throw punches like I’m trying to pummel someone into nothing. At least I know when I get someone stunned or on the ropes I can turn it on! lol. I really do need to learn how to turn it off though if I am going to last for 25 minutes in a cage.[/quote]

Honestly, it isn’t even that - when you’re trying to finish someone, it’s even more important that you stay loose; tighten up, and you’ll lose your power when you need it most.

If someone told you to put to touch your hands to your chin - not in a fighting position, just against your chin - you’d be able to hold it for a long time because you don’t have any ideas in your head about what it means … you’ve just got your hands sitting by your face.

That’s the level of looseness you’ve got to achieve - the one where keeping your guard up is no stressful to your muscles than changing a lightbulb.

It’s one of those boxing things that once it happens, you’ll be like, “Ohhhh, THIS is what they mean …”

[/quote]

Gotcha. Do you know any drills, queues, etc… to help me achieve this?

105

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

I really need to work on this. When I’m shadowboxing I have to constantly remind myself about it or I’ll get all tight and throw punches like I’m trying to pummel someone into nothing. At least I know when I get someone stunned or on the ropes I can turn it on! lol. I really do need to learn how to turn it off though if I am going to last for 25 minutes in a cage.[/quote]

Honestly, it isn’t even that - when you’re trying to finish someone, it’s even more important that you stay loose; tighten up, and you’ll lose your power when you need it most.

If someone told you to put to touch your hands to your chin - not in a fighting position, just against your chin - you’d be able to hold it for a long time because you don’t have any ideas in your head about what it means … you’ve just got your hands sitting by your face.

That’s the level of looseness you’ve got to achieve - the one where keeping your guard up is no stressful to your muscles than changing a lightbulb.

It’s one of those boxing things that once it happens, you’ll be like, “Ohhhh, THIS is what they mean …”

[/quote]

Gotcha. Do you know any drills, queues, etc… to help me achieve this?[/quote]

Well, for me it was just experience. Time spent and all that.

But the best queue I can think of his your shoulders - when you start “shrugging” them and bringing your shoulders up and in, that means you’re tightening up. That shoulder joint should be as relaxed as possible - think how they’d feel if you just let your arms hang down comfortably. Now raises your fists to your chin, but don’t tense at all.

That’s how you want to be all the time.

It’s weird as fuck, especially when you’re used to lifting, but you’ll get there. Maybe Sento can offer some other queues.

106

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:

I really need to work on this. When I’m shadowboxing I have to constantly remind myself about it or I’ll get all tight and throw punches like I’m trying to pummel someone into nothing. At least I know when I get someone stunned or on the ropes I can turn it on! lol. I really do need to learn how to turn it off though if I am going to last for 25 minutes in a cage.[/quote]

Honestly, it isn’t even that - when you’re trying to finish someone, it’s even more important that you stay loose; tighten up, and you’ll lose your power when you need it most.

If someone told you to put to touch your hands to your chin - not in a fighting position, just against your chin - you’d be able to hold it for a long time because you don’t have any ideas in your head about what it means … you’ve just got your hands sitting by your face.

That’s the level of looseness you’ve got to achieve - the one where keeping your guard up is no stressful to your muscles than changing a lightbulb.

It’s one of those boxing things that once it happens, you’ll be like, “Ohhhh, THIS is what they mean …”

[/quote]

Gotcha. Do you know any drills, queues, etc… to help me achieve this?[/quote]

Well, for me it was just experience. Time spent and all that.

But the best queue I can think of his your shoulders - when you start “shrugging” them and bringing your shoulders up and in, that means you’re tightening up. That shoulder joint should be as relaxed as possible - think how they’d feel if you just let your arms hang down comfortably. Now raises your fists to your chin, but don’t tense at all.

That’s how you want to be all the time.

It’s weird as fuck, especially when you’re used to lifting, but you’ll get there. Maybe Sento can offer some other queues.[/quote]

For me, it’s about playing. You should almost be smiling and laughing (in a way) when you’re shadow boxing. It’s legitimate, to my mind, to mix in all the flashy stuff you might be more reluctant to try in the ring. Dance about and enjoy using your slickest footwork. Think about toying with your opponent and leading him on a dance. Think about smiling at him while you’re slipping and making him miss. Do your Ali shuffle (please film and share if you do). Do your pivot hooks in segments of a full 360 degree circle as though you were just playing with an opponent, turning him all the way round as he gets frustrated and rushes you over and over again. Switch hit, walk your imaginary opponent down with good head movement. Control the range and drop your hands and move left and right, inviting him in, then bounce away as he closes the distance. Pull funny faces if you want to, it really doesn’t matter.

Learn to enjoy being smooth and having fun letting your hands and body work together by actually having fun.

107

Also, movement helps. Ever notice how your legs/hips/back will get tired if you are forced to stand still for long periods, but you can walk around for much longer before you ever get tired (if you ever do)? That’s because moving the body improves circulation, which helps bring oxygen and nutrients to the muscles and helps clear metabolic waste products (like lactic acid). This doesn’t have to be big sweeping motions with the arms either, just little fluctuations in position or switching guard positions (switching leads, going from “earmuffs” to “sling shot”, to “crab/log cabin”, to “Peekaboo”, to “Philly Shell” or whatever guards you like to use) can also give your arms/shoulders a break and improve their applied endurance. This also has the added benefit of making it harder to see the “start” of your offensive motions (since you are already in motion), makes your defensive actions faster (since you don’t have to overcome the inertia of having to move your stationary arms), and makes it more difficult for your opponent to figure you out (since the different positions will mean that techniques come from different angles and your opening continue to change).

108

Thanks for the replies yall. I will work on this tonight when I’m doing my shadow boxing/bag work. Another thing I need to work on is my footwork. In Muay Thai class last night, Coach showed us a very uniform method of stepping that we are supposed to use when moving about. Prior to this, I thought that my footwork was actually pretty quick and fluid for a guy my size but when I tried to use his methods it felt rigid, slow and robotic.

Should I keep trying to do it his way until I can do it more quickly or should I just keep doing what I was doing before when I spar? When I don’t think about my footwork a lot I tend to take lots of small steps with my lead leg and drag the other leg in to place immediately after taking a step so I never cross my legs or anything overtly stupid.

Sento:
I have no idea what any of those guards are lol. I just put my hands up with my palms facing inward, very close to my face, just below my eyes so I can see over them and try to keep my elbows in. My left hand covers my face and my right hand covers my right cheek. Is this sufficient or should I start learning different guards?

109

Not Sento, but to answer your question, it does all come with time. You can’t learn everything in a week or two. Yes, absolutely you should know as many guards and variations as you possibly can, but you can work it out for yourself. What are the strengths and weaknesses, what leads/counters does it invite/offer you, etc. Again, as you progress and improve, you’ll do it naturally.

Footwork: Better to do what an actual coach tells you to, who is training you in the flesh, than what a load of strangers (however handsome and helpful) on the internet tell you. Personally I don’t like what I understand by Maui Thai footwork, I think it is ungainly and limits mobility and fluidity. That said, I don’t know much about kicks, and haven’t trained a sport that incorporates them - I can see that it would be disadvantageous to get caught with a kick while your weight is on the front leg, and that’s often given as a reason for why boxing would never work for MMA. However, it’s not exactly ideal to get caught flush with a punch while you’re all in on the front leg. I suspect over time you would be a better fighter if you took the good/essential from Muai Thai, and from boxing, and blended them together to suit your style.

110

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:
Not Sento, but to answer your question, it does all come with time. You can’t learn everything in a week or two. Yes, absolutely you should know as many guards and variations as you possibly can, but you can work it out for yourself. What are the strengths and weaknesses, what leads/counters does it invite/offer you, etc. Again, as you progress and improve, you’ll do it naturally.

Footwork: Better to do what an actual coach tells you to, who is training you in the flesh, than what a load of strangers (however handsome and helpful) on the internet tell you. Personally I don’t like what I understand by Maui Thai footwork, I think it is ungainly and limits mobility and fluidity. That said, I don’t know much about kicks, and haven’t trained a sport that incorporates them - I can see that it would be disadvantageous to get caught with a kick while your weight is on the front leg, and that’s often given as a reason for why boxing would never work for MMA. However, it’s not exactly ideal to get caught flush with a punch while you’re all in on the front leg. I suspect over time you would be a better fighter if you took the good/essential from Muai Thai, and from boxing, and blended them together to suit your style. [/quote]
As usually is the case, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. American and dutch thai fighters tend to have their weight on the front leg because they are going for a knockout and throw a lot of punches whereas Thai fighters from Thailand put all their weight on the back leg because they don’t get any points for throwing punches and are trying to land kicks constantly (the scoring in traditional Muay Thai doesn’t make any sense to us Westerners lol) So I was figuring I would try to do footwork mainly like a boxer just with my front leg facing forward so I didn’t take any round kicks to the back of the knee. I like a step and drag approach whereas our coach was teaching us to step and step which felt clunky and slow. I know that there are a lot of styles of martial arts which advocate step and drag footwork which is how I learned it in the first place. I’ll just have to do as he says in class though. When I’m sparring I’ll do my own thing.

111

[quote]LondonBoxer123 wrote:

Footwork: Better to do what an actual coach tells you to, who is training you in the flesh, than what a load of strangers (however handsome and helpful) on the internet tell you. Personally I don’t like what I understand by Maui Thai footwork, I think it is ungainly and limits mobility and fluidity. That said, I don’t know much about kicks, and haven’t trained a sport that incorporates them - I can see that it would be disadvantageous to get caught with a kick while your weight is on the front leg, and that’s often given as a reason for why boxing would never work for MMA. However, it’s not exactly ideal to get caught flush with a punch while you’re all in on the front leg. I suspect over time you would be a better fighter if you took the good/essential from Muai Thai, and from boxing, and blended them together to suit your style. [/quote]

I agree with that wholeheartedly. If you’re learning muay Thai, then listen to whatever your coach is saying and do his drills.

I don’t know shit about the footwork necessary for kicking - anytime I did a kicking art, I hated it and relied on punching (probably why I am where I am now).

112

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
Thanks for the replies yall. I will work on this tonight when I’m doing my shadow boxing/bag work. Another thing I need to work on is my footwork. In Muay Thai class last night, Coach showed us a very uniform method of stepping that we are supposed to use when moving about. Prior to this, I thought that my footwork was actually pretty quick and fluid for a guy my size but when I tried to use his methods it felt rigid, slow and robotic.

Should I keep trying to do it his way until I can do it more quickly or should I just keep doing what I was doing before when I spar? When I don’t think about my footwork a lot I tend to take lots of small steps with my lead leg and drag the other leg in to place immediately after taking a step so I never cross my legs or anything overtly stupid.

Sento:
I have no idea what any of those guards are lol. I just put my hands up with my palms facing inward, very close to my face, just below my eyes so I can see over them and try to keep my elbows in. My left hand covers my face and my right hand covers my right cheek. Is this sufficient or should I start learning different guards?[/quote]

No big deal about not knowing all of those guards, like London said, with time and experience you will come to realize what works well for you and/or why you would adopt certain guards. For the record your guard position is a “peekaboo” guard (ala Cus D’Amato’s fighters such as Mike Tyson). That is a solid guard for a boxer of shorter stature who uses a lot of evasive head movement to pressure their opponent and get in and throw heavy leather (which I actually think would likely be a good fit for you). It does have liabilities when kicking is involved though as that guard position can blind you of your opponent’s lower body/legs.

If you bring your hands up higher by your temples that is called “earmuffs” or “binoculars” and allows for better vision of your opponent’s legs, but can make strikes coming around your flanks (hooks, round kicks, etc…) harder to spot. If you were to drop your lead hand lower and point your fist at your opponent’s chin or let it loosely “swing” and let your rear hand “float” from in front of your chin (but far enough away that you don’t lose sight of your opponents feet) to slightly off the right side of your chin that is called a “slingshot” guard. Etc…etc…etc… I can post up examples of fighters or people using the stances if you really want to see them.

I would agree with London and Irish that you should listen to your coach and try to practice what he is teaching you when you are doing Muay Thai. But, I would also say that if you feel more comfortable with more boxing footwork, then don’t hesitate to utilize it if you are MMA sparring, boxing sparring, or ever got into a real fight. It’s your neck on the line in the ring/in a real fight, and trying to do something that feels wrong or doesn’t “mesh” with your constitution is not a great idea IME. Also, there are actually lots of types of boxing and kickboxing footwork (step and step, step and slide, push shuffle, spring step, shuffle up/burst, pivoting, etc…), just because you practice one type more in your Muay Thai class doesn’t mean you only have to use that one type when sparring.

113

Sento: As always, you are very knowledgeable and helpful. Thank you for the explanation

Heavy Bag
I used the C25K app on the heavy bag which was brutal. 30 minutes of bag work straight.

Bench Press…ss…Barbell Row
135x15-135x15
185x10-185x10
225x10-225x10
275x8-275x8
315x5-315x5
315x5-315x5
315x5-315x5
275x8-275x8
225x10-225x10

I’m getting sick. No training tomorrow, it is my little girl’s birthday :slight_smile:

114

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
Sento: As always, you are very knowledgeable and helpful. Thank you for the explanation

Heavy Bag
I used the C25K app on the heavy bag which was brutal. 30 minutes of bag work straight.

Bench Press…ss…Barbell Row
135x15-135x15
185x10-185x10
225x10-225x10
275x8-275x8
315x5-315x5
315x5-315x5
315x5-315x5
275x8-275x8
225x10-225x10

I’m getting sick. No training tomorrow, it is my little girl’s birthday :)[/quote]

How long did you rest between hitting the heavy bag and benching/rowing? How did it affect your benching? Did it affect your rowing at all? My left lat gets sore after training because of all the jabs I pull back. My shoulders don’t get nearly as sore, though.

115

I rested long enough between the heavy bag and benching to load the 2 barbells. I did feel a little weak because of the bag work though. I still got some quality work in. I don’t get sore from martial training at all, just lifting. I am sore as hell today though.

116

I’m not going to BJJ class tonight because I’m sick and don’t want to spread it around. I will do some bag work at home instead.

117

Prelogged for Sunday:

Heavy Bag
C25K Week I Day II

Overhead Press…superset…Deadlift
45x15-225x15
95x10-315x10
135x8-405x8
165x5-495x5
185x5-545x5
185x5-545x5
185x5-545x5
165x5-495x5
135x8-405x8

118

This was pretty interesting. I’ll have to start trying to implement some of these techniques, especially moving 45 degrees before throwing a jab and slipping afterward.

sugarboxing.com/the-science-of-mike-tyson-and-elements-of-peek-a-boo-part-ii/#C1

119

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
This was pretty interesting. I’ll have to start trying to implement some of these techniques, especially moving 45 degrees before throwing a jab and slipping afterward.

sugarboxing.com/the-science-of-mike-tyson-and-elements-of-peek-a-boo-part-ii/#C1[/quote]

How tall are you again?

120

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Loftearmen wrote:
This was pretty interesting. I’ll have to start trying to implement some of these techniques, especially moving 45 degrees before throwing a jab and slipping afterward.

sugarboxing.com/the-science-of-mike-tyson-and-elements-of-peek-a-boo-part-ii/#C1[/quote]

How tall are you again?[/quote]

I am 6’ even. I was just shy of 6’2" but powerlifting smashed me down about an inch and a half over the years (srs). I’m hoping to get some of that height back since I’m not lifting as frequently anymore.