I’ve drop around from around 120kg (two years ago) to about 84kg this past spring/summer. Then we bought a house and, all the hours spend working on it and not getting to the gym f-ed up my eating habbits. Now I stand a roughly 102-104kg.
Tips: Do what ED wrote here above. Take no prisoners, don’t consider it a diet… make it the way you eat/live (that’s where I f-ed it up). Oh, push, drag, and carry heavy shit…
I forgot to mention, I’m a HUGE fan of carb/calorie cycling as a technique for managing:
Carb/calorie cycling was key to my own weight loss; I still do it to this day. As before, I’d be happy to share my experience/thoughts in this regard if you’d like to hear them.
Schmidt,
50 pounds or so at that weight is awesome, if you did it once I’m sure you’ll be able to do it again.
EyeDentist,
I would be very interested in specifics. I considered carb backloading but I am too much of a pussy for the 10 day induction phase (I needs my carbz) though the results seem worth it. I have been convinced to try IF with a 16/8 schedule (I get up at 5:30 so I would eat all my food for the day and complete my workout by 1:30 PM), I am then supposed to increase the fast by 30 minutes every week for 1 month culminating in an 18/6 schedule, with a minimum daily protein intake of 250 grams, I work best with clearly defined rules I guess. I would really like to hear your thoughts on carb/calorie cycling as well, diet has always been my weak point.
3/28/13
bench- 135x8, 225x5, 275x3 340x3, 360x3, 380x3
Incline- 230x5, 250x3, 270x2
1 arm Dbell bench- 85x5x5, 95x5x5x5x5
Really Wide Grip Bench- 225x6, 275x6, 315x5
I was going to do more but my back and legs were fired from hunching over all day putting together a basketball hoop for my kids, I really need to be rich so I can hire all this stuff out.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
I would be very interested in specifics. I considered carb backloading but I am too much of a pussy for the 10 day induction phase (I needs my carbz) though the results seem worth it. I have been convinced to try IF with a 16/8 schedule (I get up at 5:30 so I would eat all my food for the day and complete my workout by 1:30 PM), I am then supposed to increase the fast by 30 minutes every week for 1 month culminating in an 18/6 schedule, with a minimum daily protein intake of 250 grams, I work best with clearly defined rules I guess. I would really like to hear your thoughts on carb/calorie cycling as well, diet has always been my weak point.
[/quote]
The principles underlying both backloading and IF fit very nicely into a carb/calorie framework; in fact, I do both. That said, my impression from reading the above is that you plan to have your feeding period in the AM, and commencing your fast at ~130P. Is that correct? I ask because this will require you to spend the rest of the day fasting, which sounds very difficult (to me) to accomplish. It also means going to bed having fasted upwards of 10+ hours, which could make it difficult to fall and/or stay asleep. What time of day do you lift? I ask because fast-breaking via the post-w/o meal is ideal–insulin sensitivity is maximized, making this is the perfect opportunity to eat yummy (ie, high-GI) carbs.
For me, the main benefit of cycling is psychological. Knowing that I have a big carb day in the not-too-distant future is what allows me to survive those low carb/cal days when I’m feeling particularly deprived. Additionally, chronic low-cal dieting downregulates leptin (a key hunger-related hormone), which can stall further fat loss. Occasional high-carb days can forestall this leptin drop. (This is one reason BBers find periodic ‘re-feeds’ beneficial during a cut.)
You mention aiming for 250 g protein a day–is this because your goal BW is 250#?
EyeDentist,
yep the 250G/protein goal corresponds to the goal weight of 250-270 (that is as small as I want to get), as far as workout times I usually am at the gym right after the kids get on the bus at 8:00 AM or so except weekends when I wake up at 8:30 AM and get to the gym around 11 AM (usually). Is it a big issue if the weekend fast starts at 4:30 (8 hours after I get up), or does the time need to remain consistent throughout the week?
I just ate my last meal for the day (steak and a baked potato w/sour cream, cheddar cheese and butter) and have so far consumed almost 4600 calories (I am beyond stuffed) since I got up, I am hoping the amount of protein I took in (approx 275 grams) helps me feel full for the rest of the day.
As far as sleep goes I usually take my pain meds at night (they knock me right out) so sleep may not be an issue though quality of sleep might, I will have to wait and see.
Should I be eating a high GI meal in the morning after my workout? And provided I can maintain my fast for the 8-10 hours I am up would it seem likely to help my fat loss? And last, is 4600-5000 calories way too much for fat loss? The 4250 made me feel very hungry and very tired, both are things I hate (these are clearly 1st world problems). Thanks for your help.
Brian, I’d seriously think about picking up Carb Night Solution and Carb Back Loading, even if you decide not to run those programs, or at least peruse some of the articles. There’s some good podcasts on there too, particularly one with John Meadows and Keiffer talking about some of these things. Both books are chock full of info about how insulin and cortisol interact with your body; food choices; and food timing. Also, there is an article on the same site that compares CNS, CBL, and IF, and explains some of the strengths and weaknesses of IF and fat loss.
I hate to cut almost as much as I hate anything in the whole wide world, which is why when I’m doing it I don’t want to f-around. There’s nothing worse than being miserable and not getting good results.
Also, coffee has so many benefits when cutting its not even funny. Aside from the caffeine, coffee is also an appetite suppressant. I live on black coffee when I’m cutting.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
I really need to be rich so I can hire all this stuff out.[/quote]
I thought you were rich. And a liberal at that. Horrifying combo.
I’m following. Just so you know.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
EyeDentist,
yep the 250G/protein goal corresponds to the goal weight of 250-270 (that is as small as I want to get), as far as workout times I usually am at the gym right after the kids get on the bus at 8:00 AM or so except weekends when I wake up at 8:30 AM and get to the gym around 11 AM (usually). Is it a big issue if the weekend fast starts at 4:30 (8 hours after I get up), or does the time need to remain consistent throughout the week?
I just ate my last meal for the day (steak and a baked potato w/sour cream, cheddar cheese and butter) and have so far consumed almost 4600 calories (I am beyond stuffed) since I got up, I am hoping the amount of protein I took in (approx 275 grams) helps me feel full for the rest of the day.
As far as sleep goes I usually take my pain meds at night (they knock me right out) so sleep may not be an issue though quality of sleep might, I will have to wait and see.
Should I be eating a high GI meal in the morning after my workout? And provided I can maintain my fast for the 8-10 hours I am up would it seem likely to help my fat loss? And last, is 4600-5000 calories way too much for fat loss? The 4250 made me feel very hungry and very tired, both are things I hate (these are clearly 1st world problems). Thanks for your help.[/quote]
Re timing of your fast: Martin Berkhan (IF guru and author of the ‘Leangains’ protocol) recommends keeping the feeding/fasting periods as consistent as possible, owing to a phenomenon known as ‘hormonal entrainment.’
Re timing carb intake: Carbs provoke insulin release, with higher-GI carbs promoting a relatively greater release (there are a few exceptions to this rule; we can get into that if you want). Insulin is an extremely anabolic hormone, which is why the hyooge guys shoot up ‘slin.’ Unfortunately, insulin doesn’t discriminate–while it promotes muscle cell growth, it also promotes fat-cell growth. In a sense, the enormously fat individuals you see trolling the mall food court are also ‘shooting up slin’ by constantly consuming carbs and provoking endogenous insulin release. That is, until their constantly-elevated insulin levels leads to insulin resistance, aka Type II diabetes. Not good.
Instead, we would like to time our insulin (and therefore our carbs) in such a way as to promote muscle, but not fat-cell, growth. The key to this is to coordinate carb intake with lifting. Heavy weightlifting upregulates muscle-cell insulin sensitivity by promoting ‘insulin independent GLUT translocation’ on the surface of muscle cells. In short, what this means is that in the post-workout period, muscle cells are maximally primed to absorb glucose and other nutrients. (This is referred to as ‘nutrient partitioning.’) Thus, this is the time when high-GI carbs can be consumed with a net-positive effect on body composition.
You mentioned in a previous post that you do well with diet ‘rules.’ In that regard, consider adopting this one: Carbs will be consumed ONLY in the post-workout window. I can’t think of a single downside to this rule. Some will argue that you need pre-w/o carbs for ‘energy,’ but this is only true if you have been on a very-low-carb diet for the previous 3+ days. So long as you had carbs in the 1-2 days prior, muscle glycogen levels will be full (or nearly so), and weightlifting won’t be affected (assuming you’re not doing a crazy amount of volume). And note that this rule implies the following: No lifting = no intentional carbs that day.
I’ll get back to you with my thoughts re your caloric intake a little later.
Re caloric intake. It goes without saying that you must run a net caloric deficit in order to lose weight. In order to do this, you have to know how many calories you’re taking in, and how many calories you’re expending.
On the intake front, this means you HAVE to measure/weigh your food (with the exception of cruciferous/leafy veggies, which are always ‘free’). ‘Guesstimating’ won’t cut it–believe me, I’ve tried. (It’s amazing what being hungry can do to one’s perception of what 10 oz of food looks like.) I got a good electronic food scale from Amazon for $25 a few years ago. (Not sure if TN will allow me to link it.)
On the output front, I’m afraid guesstimating is the only practical approach. The rule-of-thumb re caloric expenditure in an adult male with a non-manual-labor job is ‘BW x 15’ on lifting days, and ‘BW x 12’ on rest days. Working off of a BW of 300# for you, this comes to 4500 cals on lifting days vs 3600 on rest days. These are the numbers I suggest you use when setting your caloric intake goals.
It takes a deficit of 3500 cals to lose a pound, so if you wanted to lose a pound/week, you need your weekly deficit to hit 3500. How you get there is up to you. You could run a constant deficit of 500 cal/d, but I personally find that less appealing than having some days higher and some lower; that is, I would rather eat at maintenance one day and a 1000 cal deficit the next than eat at a 500 cal deficit on both days. Further, since I’m going to eschew all carbs on nonlifting days, I like to run a substantial caloric deficit on those days; this allows me to ‘save’ more carbs/calories for lifting days.
I think you mentioned planning to lift 5d/week. Based on that, you could reach a 3500 cal/week deficit thusly:
–2 off days @2600 cals (deficit = 1000 cal/d; total deficit = 2000 cals)
–2 lift days @4500 (no deficit)
–3 lift days @4000 (deficit = 500 cals/d; total deficit 1500 cals)
As for macros, the primary means of moving the cals up and down is via manipulating carb intake (and to a lesser extent, protein):
–Off days: 400 g protein (1600 cals), 100 g fat (~1000 cals), ~20 incidental carbs (~100 cals)
–No deficit days (high-carbs!): 250 g protein (1000 cals), 600 g carbs (2400 cals), ~100 g fat (~1000 cals)
–Deficit lift days: 300 g protein (1200 cals), 300 g carbs (1200 cals), ~160 g fat (~1600 cals)
I’m not gonna lie–the 1000 cal deficits on the off days will SUCK. (As mentioned above, coffee can be a diet-saver on such days). But you get through them by knowing a high-carb day is just around the corner (you might consider scheduling the high-carb days to follow the no-carb days for this reason).
Anyway, these are the basic ideas underlying how I managed to drop weight. Hope it helps.
JJack,
I am actually downloading Carb Nite Solution, so hopefully I will figure all this shit out, Thanks for the tip I appreciate it.
KP,
I am rich where it counts, in love and a surplus of Tagalongs and Thin Mints, Outside of that I am full on middle class, but I am retired so I am rich in free time too. Thanks for following.
EyeDentist,
Wow, that is a lot of information. After re-reading it twice I decided to:
keep the fast for the same time each day, from 5 PM onward (it makes more sense so thank you.)
Buy a digital scale. No sense in doing this half assed, it is going to suck regardless so it might as well suck efficiently.
Lift every day, never has it seemed so important as when I am being faced with carb exclusion on non-lifting days.
Follow the good day/bad day caloric reduction, 50% shitty days is better than 100% mediocre days.
Thanks for the help.
My pleasure–I enjoy talking about this stuff. Best of luck in your weight-loss endeavors. I’ll be lurking along.
How’s the weight?
[quote]sen say wrote:
How’s the weight?[/quote]
What he said…
Hey skinny.
What’s up?
Too weak to type?
SenSay, Scmidt, Farmer Brett,
Thanks for asking, I was on Spring Break (with my kids so beer bongs were limited) now that I am back I will be continuing my descent into weakness and health.
Weight this AM: 321 Down another 7 lbs, mostly from walking around with the kids and being kept away from fun food. I am too lazy to go to the gym today so the workouts start again tomorrow.